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680773 Posts in 27615 Topics by 4067 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims April 23, 2024, 02:14:39 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys pilgrimage on: December 04, 2023, 12:53:12 AM
I just missed the Foster's Freeze! I did my own pilgrimage a few years ago and it was closed ... but the vibe was as if whoever was supposed to open it hadn't bothered to come in that morning. Glad I at least got to see it, even if I didn't get my shake. Definitely drive down Hawthorne Boulevard and definitely visit the monument. Even though the house is gone, Hawthorne is still a working class area, which means there hasn't been nearly as much development as there might have been. There are some old 50s signs and buildings on the main strip, and the part of the Wilson's neighborhood that didn't go under the freeway still has the kind of vibe you might imagine, I think. Just imagine them riding up and down those streets on their bikes, it's easy to see it. Also you can have lunch at Pizza Show, which is where Brian would go for a slice. As a New Yorker, the pizza itself is bad. But I bet ya it's exactly the same bad pizza they were chowing down on in the 50s!
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Currently obsessed with the Sweet Insanity sessions.. on: June 21, 2023, 06:16:16 PM
Except for the fact that “Rooftop Harry” on the SOS box comes directly from Brian and is nothing less than an early version of “From There to Back Again.”

As demos and early versions have trickled out, it’s pretty clear that the big man has pulled his creative weight the entire time.

If Brian gets a credit for co-writing a song, he co-wrote the song.

This. I really don't understand why people think Brian has been uninvolved in his solo work since 1998. Really all the evidence points the other way. In fact, the general pattern seems to be that Brian's collaborators tended towards the uninspired, and the more active a role Brian played in any given song, the better it ended up being. Which is the exact opposite of worrying that the highlights didn't really come from him! Witness Cry and Happy Days on Imagination - the two solo writing credits and also the only two really special songs on the record. Good Kind of Love and Message Man being the two catchiest things on That Lucky Old Sun. I remember amazing rumors on facebook and this board back in 2010 about how engaged Brian was in the instrumental tracking for the Gershwin record. That was before the record came out or anybody had heard it, but lo and behold, the instrumental arrangements were arguably the best of Brian's solo career. Coincidence? I think not. In other words, the only thing crazier than Brian Wilson coming up with a suite of four incredible songs to close out a new Beach Boys album in 2012 is the idea that Joe Thomas - one of the least-inspired co-writers Brian Wilson has ever worked with - somehow turned into a brilliant composer and arranger for about ten minutes, then promptly went back to being boring.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: American Spring – now on streaming services on: February 13, 2023, 10:02:04 AM
I think it was probably posted by mistake, or by someone whose rights to the material are disputed.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin Passed Away on: February 04, 2023, 09:40:05 AM
I will always wonder if the beating Rocky and SL inflicted on Dennis caused him so much pain that he self medicated himself in excess which contributed to his early demise. Obviously he was already in bad shape from years of substance abuse.

It seems obvious, too, that this beating was one particularly dreadful moment in a really toxic sort of family dynamic within the band in the 70s, and really it was the same dynamic that made things much harder for Brian, too, now directed at Dennis as well, which was a "tough love" approach to really admittedly scary substance abuse problems that was only ever going to make things worse (even though I think Mike but really the entire band had trouble imagining what other approach they could take), combined with a huge amount of resentment that meant the idea of Brian or Dennis being successful outside the context of the Beach Boys really rankled Mike in particular, but again I think everyone to some extent.

I think that combination of "tough love" and resentment was just poisonous.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Here She Comes - Most popular song on CATP on: January 31, 2023, 09:01:08 AM
My daughter is 16 and has recently become a Beach Boys obsessive. This is one of her very favorite tracks. She's listening with fresh ears. Maybe the contributions of Ricky and Blondie need to be reevaluated. The song certainly has strong hooks.

Ricky and Blondie deserve a lot of credit for keeping the band afloat during that period, especially in the touring circuit.  They provided the group with a much-needed edge that definitely added some grit to their music.  I think had they stuck around a bit longer for at least one more album, they would have probably successfully had completely fused and blended their sound in with the band.  We could have potentially had a killer album comparable to the "earthy" sound that the Rolling Stones were demonstrating on their albums at the time (Let It Bleed, Beggar's Banquet,  etc.). 

I agree completely. An alternate-reality 1975 album with Blondie and Ricky still on board, considering the work that Dennis was doing in that time frame, and where Dennis and Blondie ended up going with their respective 1977 solo albums, should have been absolutely stunning. Throw in Brian continuing his early-70s pattern of working up a couple of his stronger compositions instead of half-assing covers, and you have a hell of a record.

Of course, this is like the alternate reality of an alternate reality, given that even without Blondie and Ricky a ton of great-to-promising material was thrown out in this time frame in favor of Brian Wilson half-assing covers.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Very Early Brian Solo Show - 1985 on: January 26, 2023, 11:47:02 AM
I think the main deal with that '85 show that you're hearing is Brian's normal "stage fright" (or "stage fright adjacent") issues, and as Wirestone mentioned, some form of uppers to jack him up to have plenty of energy and push through the stage fright. In a lot of Brian's solo appearances in the 80s, for whatever reason, Landy had Brian standing and *not* playing an instrument, which I would think would typically only amp up stage fright issues.

Also, I presume an unfavorable comparison between this '85 show and Brian's mid-late 70s voice is being made to his *studio* voice in the mid-late 70s. Because, if you listen to decent-sounding live recordings from 1976-1982 with the Beach Boys, Brian doesn't sound any more in control of his voice.

Which brings us to the crux of this, which is that Brian has always been able to, for lack of a better way to put it, get his sh*t together when doing studio vocals (or any non-live-on-stage situation), both by way of being more relaxed, and also through all the normal studio methods (comping, re-takes, by the 80s various forms of running vocals through synthesizers, etc.).

In the 1976 through early 90s time frame, when Brian *wasn't* on some kind of stimulant, you got the rather low-energy performances you see on many 1979/1980 performances. When you watch something like the '77 Maryland pro-shot show, Brian certainly appears to be coked out or on some kind of upper, and he doesn't sound super dissimilar there to how he sounds in this '85 live show. He's a little more loosey-goosey on that '77 show, less even-tempered and a little gruffer on the vocals. But you're hearing his singing through a bunch of filters. It's like smoker voice filtered through stage fright filtered through stimulants filtered through whatever was going on that day.

To be honest, I'm not really hearing so much a case of his sounding like he doesn't know how to sing on this '85 show. I think that's the meds and additional uppers, all pushing him past not only the stage fright, but past the ability to know or care how good he sounds. He's just doin' it and letting loose, and it sounds a little off the rails which he regularly did all through this era.

I think, even going back to the late 70s and early 80s (think something like the Carl-less '81/'82 shows in particular), Brian was conditioned to be there when he kinda didn't want to be, and had to kind of, at least on some level, not *care* how he sounded. It's the only explanation for something like him trying to sing "Don't Worry Baby" on that '81 tour. So maybe part of getting Brian through stage fright was via a shortcut of kind of forcing him to not care how good he sounded.

All of this is very insightful, thanks for taking the time to go through it.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Very Early Brian Solo Show - 1985 on: January 25, 2023, 06:49:54 PM
Very cool. His voice does sound great, wow. Thanks for the link!

Honestly, what strikes me is not how good his voice is, but how bad it is. I mean, I see what you all are saying, and we all know what was to come... but already in this performance, you are dealing with a performer who doesn't sound like he knows how to sing. His annunciation, phrasing, the slurring, the shouting. It's not nearly as bad as it would get, but it's just such a striking transformation from a) a person who was an incredibly gifted professional singer recording literally some of the greatest vocal performances of the pop era less 20 years before, and b) from the mid 70s, when his voice was damaged but he obviously could still sing normally, for lack of a better word. The comparison to Dennis is also interesting, because Dennis did even more damage to his range and vocal chords, but he never had even a hint of this kind of ... lack of control over the effect he was creating.

Also Youtube recommended this one, as well, which I don't think I'd seen before (though it was posted in 2013, so presumably old hat!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG9luwmrOAk
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 18, 2022, 06:09:59 PM
This is a cool idea, thanks for putting it together! My one suggestion would be that "shut out" (or even "lock out" as in the original) would be a better translation of ausschließen than eliminate, since it is not just metaphorical but also literally referring to the lock and bolt Smiley

9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 16, 2022, 05:47:49 PM
Second, at the end (the credits page), under the Carnegie Hall credits, I'm confused about how it lists the "supporting musicians 1972", then the vocalists (including Bruce Johnston), and then the "supporting musicians on live recording"--is this suggesting there were, as often is the case, musicians used for non-live (i.e. studio sweetening?) recordings for the Carnegie material, or is this just strangely worded?  It's all under the Carnegie Hall credits, so it doesn't seem to be referencing musicians who were involved at various points throughout the year, but rather suggests that all were involved in the CH shows. Anyone care to clarify?

Over on the Hoffman board, at least a few posters are convinced that the Carnegie Hall recordings were sweetened with studio vocals from the era. The instances mentioned are the She Don't Know vocals on Mess of Help and the chorus of Marcella. Personally, I can't hear it, but if it's listed this way in the booklet that makes it seem far more likely. I don't really care one way or the other, it sounds amazing and that's what matters - but I would be very curious to know if it's true, and if so which parts of which songs are effected! (The conversation starts on page 57 of the long Sail On Sailor thread over on that board, if anyone's interested in investigating... )
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Video asks \ on: December 13, 2022, 07:14:58 AM
Fantastic video! Really fun to see it all laid out. I hope that this true story, in which the band themselves *and* the wrecking crew get the credit they deserve, becomes the conventional wisdom!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What would you want on an expanded IN CONCERT? on: December 13, 2022, 06:51:36 AM
I think maybe there are three more possibilities for big boxes, if Capitol is up for them. The first would be In Concert (1972-73, maybe even with 1974 and/or 1975 too?). The second is a Brian’s Back box; I know Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have talked about wanting to do this (though I think one or both of them mentioned going as far as MIU; that would have to be a pretty big box, or have a lot of material cut from it, especially if they include(d) material from Adult/Child and/or the second Christmas album. The third would be a comprehensive live box, probably 1974/75/76-1993, and any other interesting things that might be in the vaults. I doubt this would happen, but I’d love to get C50 live material on it too. For the remaining albums, depending on the market and amount of material, maybe they just limit it to expanded 1-CD or deluxe 2-CD versions?

A "Brian's back" era box is a necessity in my view, although I'm not sure how you'd market it. But the band recorded so much material in the late 70s. I do think, more than the last couple boxes, the right way to do it would be an extremely limited edition 12 disc version or whatever, and a box set boiled down to the essential - maybe a remixed Love You plus one disc of highlights? Or a digital only release? It's hard to say what would work best, and of course we don't know what there is to work with in terms of unreleased material. But it's such a strange and cool era, for those of us who love it.

Unless there's something I've missed, I'm not sure how interested I would be in the 77-93 part of a comprehensive live box... It would be great to have a well done issue of those 93 concerts, but I'm not sure how essential even that would be. And other than that, I feel like it was sort of all downhill from 75 or so, in terms of the live act. Not that they weren't great at times, but they clearly weren't driven in the same way. I like the Knebworth show, but the distance between the Carnegie show on Sail on Sailor in 72 and Knebworth 8 years later is pretty stark. But definitely the mid-70s deserves a live box of its own. And although the Blondie and Ricky era seems to have tragically escaped being filmed, somehow, there's got to be some good quality footage from the mid-70s, right?
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What would you want on an expanded IN CONCERT? on: December 11, 2022, 07:33:01 AM
There is no song the Beach Boys played in this era that I don't desperately wish I had in high quality! My fear is that if there were good sounding recordings of the Dennis rarities from this era, we would have gotten them by now, on this box or the last one. But here's hoping they decided to withhold something for the next one!

On another note, The Trader on the boxset from 1975 sounds absolutely incredible, which makes me wonder what goodies might have been recorded in that year!
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce at Carnegie Hall on: December 06, 2022, 05:52:09 PM
Tx for the review. Really surprised nothing from SOS box....strange considering the 50 year anniversary.  One thing a bit strange Bruce talking about being at Carneghie 50 years ago,  he wasn't touring with them at that point and wasnt at those shows as far as I know.

But yea, I was really hoping for at least All This is That, which I'm pretty sure they did do the last time I saw them! I really think Only with You would be perfect for Christian Love's voice... and honestly probably a beautiful enough song that if you snuck it in after God Only Knows you'd probably be able to take even the Kokomo crowd with you. But alas, no one asked me!
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce at Carnegie Hall on: December 06, 2022, 05:48:10 PM
Tx for the review. Really surprised nothing from SOS box....strange considering the 50 year anniversary.  One thing a bit strange Bruce talking about being at Carneghie 50 years ago,  he wasn't touring with them at that point and wasnt at those shows as far as I know.

Actually, they played Carnegie Hall the first time in Feb., 1971, and Bruce sang Tears in the Morning and Your Song! Although it was 51 years ago, not 50!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Mike and Bruce at Carnegie Hall on: December 06, 2022, 02:58:45 PM
Thought people might be interested in a brief review of last night's show... It was an interesting evening, but I'm definitely glad I went!

They played two long sets... but sadly, the Christmas songs seemed to take the place of any potential deep cuts (including an astonishing four songs from Reason for the Season... and yet, not the one I wanted to hear! I was really hoping they'd do Alone on Christmas Day). And while Mike and Bruce both made comments about playing Carnegie Hall 50 years ago, they didn't give us a single song from Sail on Sailor.

The stage was nicely decorated, and they had a roughly 20 piece orchestra behind them, with strings, horns, and tympani. The orchestra director was really funny, conducting with his whole body, honestly it was a great bit of old fashioned showmanship and a lot of fun to watch. The energy on stage was great. (Crowd energy less so... there were a lot of empty seats... they shouldn't have sold the top half of the balcony, frankly. Then again, the people there were having fun! Kind of funny to see an entire empty section of seats, with a single woman standing in the middle of it and just dancing and having the time of her life). The orchestra played even with the rock songs, and I'll be honest, the sound didn't quite gel. But actually, they struggled with the sound for a bit more than half the concert. I think it was a combination of the venue, the size of the band with the strings... I don't know, but I was in the first row balcony, and the mix was terrible at the beginning. The backing vocals were totally drowned out and the drums were way too loud. That said, the band was playing really, really well, it was just not translating into the room. They obviously made drastic adjustments during the intermission, and the second set sounded a lot, lot better. Ironically, the Pet Sounds songs sounded pretty damn incredible with the orchestra, the acoustics of the room, and the vocal blend finally working together. California Girls also sounded pretty amazing.

Bruce sang White Christmas and I'll be Home for Christmas. The latter sounded really good to me, the first didn't quite come together. Again, though, a big part of that was the sound in the room being off during the first set, and basically fixed during the second.

John Stamos hammed it up and did his thing, and honestly, all I can say is that the audience ate it up. Being in the crowd at this show, I really could not blame Mike for the choices he's making. The band is obviously working hard to do the music justice, but as much as it rankles to see Forever presented as a tribute to Full House, instead of a tribute to Dennis Wilson... this crowd went absolutely wild for the Full House stuff. The middle aged woman next to me, who must have been a teenager in the early 90s, was ecstatic, and she wasn't the only one. Likewise, the cartoon videos and montages of vintage footage were not necessarily what I would put alongside the Beach Boys music, but the people around me clearly were enjoying them. I did personally appreciate that the montage of vintage girls-from-around-the-world that they've put together to accompany California Girls heavily features Francoise Hardy, although there's a certain sad irony, for sure, to taking one of the most beautiful songs ever written that most people think is just a silly tribute to girls from around the country, and backing it up with clips of one of the most brilliant singer-songwriters of the 60s, presented as if she were just a swimsuit model!

John Cowsill was a highlight, as always. Brian Eichenberger also sounded great! And Mike's voice sounded really good, better than it has in a while. Honestly, it remains well worth 50 bucks just to hear these songs sung by their original singer and co-writer. And any concert where I can hear California Girls, Sloop John B, God Only Knows, Wouldn't it Be Nice and Good Vibrations done justice is money well spent, whatever else is going on. It's just a shame that the setlist didn't play to the band's strengths, because as I said they sounded way better on the fuller productions where they could take full advantage of the orchestra than on the rockers!

16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 02, 2022, 05:31:14 PM
Whoa. This set is unbelievable. Above expectations... and expectations were *very* high!!

I have so many thoughts, and I'm not even close to processing it all! But just a few things that stand out to me so far.

Al's Road Not Taken demo is pretty special to my ears. Hearing it followed by the a cappella All This is That is spectacular.

I always sort of suspected Make it Good and Cuddle Up would have been better without the strings... Not that I don't get what Dennis was going for, but man was I right. These songs really shine anew, especially Make it Good!

The Carnegie Hall show is just ... so good. So good. The band is on fire, the sound is impeccable, the energy amazing. Best live recordings of the band I've heard. Better than the In Concert album. I don't know why I was ready to be disappointed by this (maybe because we already had so many of the rarer tracks from this tour on other releases), but the sum really is greater than the parts. Also, they did such a good job on the mix. Not too rough, not too cleaned up, just right in that sweet spot of making you feel like you're in the audience!

Spark in the Dark, Rooftop Harry, Body Talk, and Gimme Some Lovin are, in my view, more of a revelation than the unreleased Brian songs on the last couple of boxed sets, because they fill out the context for the Brian compositions on So Tough and Holland. Adding these four tracks to Marcella, Mess of Help, and Funky Pretty, really shows that Brian had an idea of a new kind of musical direction to take the band. It is wild to imagine where Brian might have taken these ideas if he were still able / willing / capable / desired to / allowed to / or whatever the situation was - to pursue this direction and take the lead on a Beach Boys record in the early 70s.

As someone else already mentioned, Brian wrote everything that mattered of Sail on Sailor himself; they just needed the right verse lyrics, which obviously they eventually got to through some trial and error.

The Holland tracks / backing vocals are so incredibly rich and detailed. They represent, in my view, a band undeniably firing on all cylinders. Any narrative that posits Holland as a sort of "last gasp" just doesn't hold up anymore. No one is gasping here. The band has obviously been building towards this moment through tons of hard work and creativity, and seeing the era laid out as a whole makes that so clear. In Holland, the band (under Carl's guiding hand, I presume) integrated the divergent strengths Dennis, Mike, Al, Blondie, Ricky, Carl, and Brian had brought to the table on So Tough into a coherent sound and approach, which is a spectacular accomplishment.

One last thought, for now:

I think that our culture has finally gotten away from the stranglehold the boomer generation had on the history of rock and pop. This has had some dramatic effects. Disco, which I was somehow taught to despise as a classic-rock child of the 90s, is now rightly seen as a path-breaking genre with a far more lasting impact than hard rock. And bands like the Beach Boys are finally coming out of the shadow of how they intersected with popular taste and being seen as artists defined by how they approached their music, rather than by how audiences received it.

This phenomenon is not limited to the Beach Boys. Paul McCartney's solo work has increasingly come out of the shadow of the Beatles career. The hyper-critical response to RAM in the 1970s looks downright bizarre from the vantage of 2022. Similarly, the traditional narrative I was sold on Dylan's career also doesn't make sense anymore. The idea that Dylan had a spectacular flowering of creativity in the mid-60s, then retreated, only emerging with "last gasp" albums Blood on the Tracks and Desire, is, to those of us who didn't live through it, divorced from reality. Rather, Dylan looks like an artist who continually evolved from 1962 to 1976, putting out incredible album after incredible album as he pursued new styles and interests.

No one cares how many people bought Carl and the Passions, So Tough anymore. It mattered then, it doesn't matter now. The series of boxed sets that have come out since the Smile Sessions in 2011 demonstrate unequivocally that the Beach Boys were vital, important, living, evolving artists from 1963 to 1973, a single astonishing outburst of creative energy that did not relent until the mid-70s.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love at The Grammy Museum - L.A. - 11/16/22 on: October 31, 2022, 10:59:24 AM
And c’mon people, whatever misgivings a fan might have regarding the idea of a Mike Love interview in the abstract, this is a case where we can finally rest assured that both sides of the conversation will be informed and that there will be no BS. Howie knows how to ask good questions, and I know Mike knows that Howie knows his s**t. This is not going to be a Wink Martindale situation, nor even a Rob Reiner situation. I don’t think we’re going to get questions about which Beach Boys surfed, or who wrote “Kokomo.”  

No need to create weird strawman arguments (obviously we’ve seen some unfortunate Mike interviews over the years, but I’ve never seen him literally say anything like “Al didn’t have enough talent for…” whatever.)

These guys do remember way more than you would think; they just need to be asked. Don’t ask me how I know, but Mike will sing you “Wontcha Come Out Tonight” if you prompt him. The stuff is there in the memory banks. We’re finally in a place and time where these guys will talk about “He Come Down!”

If one approached me and asked what would make a good Mike Love interview, the two things I’d pick is having Howie do the interview, and for it to be long-form. Both are the case here.

The thing we should be hoping for is some good audio/video of the entire event.


hear, hear!
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love at The Grammy Museum - L.A. - 11/16/22 on: October 30, 2022, 08:41:53 AM
OMG, I can just here it now....."I was the driving force behind the hole SOS era, I had to be, cause The Wilsons, were all zoned out on drugs and alcohol, and Al didn't have enough talent. So I had to take control, and keep Blondie and Ricky in line as the new members". Can't you just here him saying this?Huh

Man, doesn't Mike Love do enough on his own without us having to castigate him for things he hasn't actually said? I'm not like a huge Mike person myself, but it just brings down the mood, you know? This looks like a great event, I wish I could be there.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: October 30, 2022, 07:35:25 AM
For some reason there's not a lot going on here about "Carry me home" so I would just like to express again how much I appreciate this "new" version. Much more than I ever liked listening to the bootlegged version (for obvious reasons). Listening to this release blew my mind. Blondie and Dennis sharing the lead is very effective and it shoows (as does the In Concert album) how well Blondie's voice fit in with the Beach Boys blend. Man, if only Blondie and Ricky would've stayed with the band.
Thanks Alan, Mark, Howie, Beach Boys and everyone else who made sure we can enjoy this beautiful recording.

Yea, I agree completely. Some songs do okay (some songs maybe even benefit, in a strange way) from a little hiss, but this is not one of them. I've always had a sense that it was a great song, but I've never really wanted to listen to it until now. The sound of it in this version is just absolutely sublime.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Kokomo Spirits on: October 25, 2022, 06:34:13 PM
I mean, God forbid an 81 year old American both deplore how drug and alcohol abuse have hurt people in his family while also celebrating casual drinking as a fundamental part of American culture. It's only the default position of literally everyone in our society. Our whole culture is filled with people who drink casually and celebrate alcohol as a way to unwind and kick back... and also who know people who haven't been able to handle that and have suffered for it. Maybe it would be better if we all, as a country, had a little more maturity and sense on this topic, but its sort of ridiculous to single out Mike Love on this of all things... especially since the real issue, obviously, is not the hypocrisy, it's the feeling that he's cheapening the Beach Boys brand. And he is. But he's been doing that since 1975, I don't think he's going to change now!
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Full Instrumental Recreation of Let Him Run Wild - Video on: October 17, 2022, 08:29:14 AM
Incredible. Just like in the Help Me Rhonda video, there is something so satisfying about seeing the instruments come in and out, and getting that visual information. Especially, for me, seeing that "snare" hit on the tambourine, which is such a cool sound, and which I don't think I could ever have identified myself! The guitars sound almost uncannily right, too!
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Strange dream that showed Jack Reiley's Western Justice album cover on a WWE pr on: October 13, 2022, 12:46:29 PM
Somehow I'd never listened to this before... wow, it's really a great record! Jack Reilly seems to have picked up a lot from Carl (and to some extent it must have gone the other way), and the team of musicians, arrangers, producers he assembled in Holland sounds really extraordinary. The lead vocals are definitely the weak point, but the songs and arrangements are pretty fantastic. I know the break with Jack Rieley happened for a variety of reasons on both sides, but man, this sensibility would have produced one hell of a Beach Boys record with the work Dennis was starting to do at this time in the mix....
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian’s vocal change Redux on: October 03, 2022, 02:51:59 PM
That is probably the worst bad take in BB fandom: “Brian was better when he was hopped up on bad meds because that made him more conversational”.

With all respect, that's not what's being said in this thread. No one is saying Brian shouldn't have gotten the medication he needed or that it would be better to be more talkative and under or poorly medicated. People are just observing that it may have been a factor in how he comes across in public speaking engagements, that's all.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Wilson/Paley Sessions on: September 20, 2022, 01:05:16 PM
And some of you (not you Billy), always guessing that Andy Paley, Scott Bennett, even Joe Thomas (!!!) actually composed many of his songs.
Ableism to 10000000000000000000000000000000%.
Brian is the greatest songwriter in the world, but he has mental problems and answers yes and no in interviews. So he can't be the real composer, right? It must have been that famous songwriter, Joe Thomas. Or whoever.

Brian's always wanted a collaborator, and he's always brought out the absolute best that his collaborators had to offer. It seems like one of the most important things for Brian was to work with someone who didn't have a strong ego about it, and that this is partially, perhaps, what led him to collaborate with so many unknowns in the 60s, and someone like Joe Thomas in the 90s (and what made working with Mike so hard). But as a creative mind Brian is just such a dominant force that it is blindingly obvious that his collaborations are all Brian Wilson songs, and that when they fail it's up to what Brian brought to the table, not the collaborator. Imagination is a deeply flawed record but so many of those songs are catchy as hell. If Joe Thomas could write hooks like that without Brian Wilson sitting next to him, he'd have done it. And if Brian had cared about how the backing tracks sounded, he'd probably have shown up to the sessions. Basically, I agree with you completely. Brian has had a lot of problems over the years and a lot of struggles, but in the big picture, it's pretty clear that, with the exception of Landy, who really exercised extreme psychological control methods, the buck has stopped with Brian. He's responsible for the sound of his music, both when you like it and when you don't, and Love You or Paley are not *more* Brian or *more* authentic, they're just a direction Brian pursued at one moment, and at other moments he pursued other directions, and sometimes he was hands on and sometimes he was hands off, by choice.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recording For Audrey? on: September 20, 2022, 11:21:49 AM
It's interesting that the article says the Wilsons "still live in the modest home" in Hawthorne. If that's true, they were just about to move out. The article is dated Novemer 29, 1964. By the time of Brian's first breakdown almost a month later, Brian and Marilyn had gotten married and Murry, Audree and Carl had moved out of the Hawthorne house. When Brian returned to LA from Houston he requested that his mom (and only his mom) meet him at the airport and drive him to their house in Hawthorne. Audree did that and the two of them spent the night there talking in the dark and empty house. Apparently they hadn't closed on the house yet and they still had access to it. I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that conversationi. I'd love to hear the recording the Boys made for Audree too.

It's pretty wild to imagine Carl Wilson still living with his parents in their childhood home in 1964! Even wilder to think that he was just 17 for basically that entire year! What a childhood.
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