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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 10:04:02 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 30, 2021, 11:05:02 AM
Totally unrelated note:

It's fun to imagine Western 3 being packed for the GOK session.  Here's some footage of the Mamas and Papas rehearsing a session in 3 with the four of them plus seven studio musicians, 11 total.  Now imagine that same space but with 18 folks crammed in there.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q3mL3QhfKY

I think it was a missed opportunity in Love and Mercy to pare down the number of musicians so much for some of those recreated sessions.  Would have been really eye opening to see them all stuffed in there.  It's gotta be the limit, and indeed, I'm surprised they didn't use Studio 2.  But I guess you booked what you booked!

Or...Brian used the smaller Studio 3 specifically to get that tightly-packed, bleeding into other microphones sound...

Who can know?

It seems like it would have been less expensive than other studios too, so he wouldn't get bugged so much about spending 3 hours plus overtime on just one backing track.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 21, 2021, 07:26:11 PM
Do we know what the orange juice cups looked like? or a modern equivalent? These cups were played with drum sticks? Seems too heavy. I always assumed xylophone sticks, chop sticks, etc - something lighter.

I thought about this the other day, and the only thing I think that would make that high pitched sound would be something solid like Tupperware...which existed at the time. But maybe I'm overthinking.

I'll do a demonstration sometime.  It's surprising that a paper cap can do it, but it is pretty much dead on.

I think the plastic orange juice cup thing is probably just a bad recollection then. Like how Billy Strange doesn't even remember the Sloop John B overdub session right (from the comment by his son Jerry Strange on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDvQHIJqoaA).
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 21, 2021, 06:03:30 PM
Do we know what the orange juice cups looked like? or a modern equivalent? These cups were played with drum sticks? Seems too heavy. I always assumed xylophone sticks, chop sticks, etc - something lighter.

I thought about this the other day, and the only thing I think that would make that high pitched sound would be something solid like Tupperware...which existed at the time. But maybe I'm overthinking.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 18, 2021, 10:52:54 AM
The second is what I presume is the solo bass track from the 4 track tape. Interestingly enough, some of the other instruments WITHOUT REVERB are also on this track, so you get to hear what the musicians would have heard in the room, without any effects. I have low cut the bass and boosted the track so you can hear it more clearly. The most enlightening is the woodwind flourish on the final verse which can be heard dry. There is another lower part which can't really be heard in the finished track.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtR_5dVRo40RgYFCwDY5Ey59gm3xKg

I was really curious what the room mic leakage would sound like bathed in chamber reverb and multi-tap delay (yes, I know, a lot of the instruments shouldn't be on that delay, but we don't have the luxury), so I tried it:

https://sndup.net/85jz

Pretty close to the finished product, almost completely transforming the dry sound.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 17, 2021, 05:53:47 PM
The first clearly demonstrates it is a flute on the fade playing in round with the French horn

Ah, that's what I must be hearing, why it sounds a little different each round. Thanks for the audio files.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 17, 2021, 05:47:31 PM
There were absolutely NO overdubs on this magnificent recording, other than the vocals - however, the tag was spliced in from a separate take.

It always sounded like the french horn had to be overdubbed on that tag if there wasn't a 2nd horn present in the session, alternating playing the same line one after another. It actually sounds impossible to play without being overdubbed or a 2nd horn player present.

If you mean the melodic "withouuuut" part being played in rounds at the end - that's a horn and a woodwind (although the reverb does make it sound like two horns!). All the instruments are live without a single doubt

It's hard to hear on anything but Take 20 of the backing track on UM, but each alternating round does sit differently in that stereo mix...and on all mixes the "2nd" horn has more reverb.

If Brian can overdub the same harpsichord on "You Still Believe in Me", why not the same horn on this...

You're hearing several other instruments overlapping, but not a second horn.

You can literally hear one still playing the last note while the other horn starts. That isn't reverb either.

It literally can't be.  It is not physically or metaphysically possible.

Listening again to the end of take 19 where they mess up the tag, the horn does indeed keep playing the same line over and over again. So I was wrong. Amazing how all that reverb can deceive the ears.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Would-Be Hits on: August 15, 2021, 12:21:09 PM
Solar System, with different lyrics and a slightly different arrangement.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 14, 2021, 03:45:47 PM
There were absolutely NO overdubs on this magnificent recording, other than the vocals - however, the tag was spliced in from a separate take.

It always sounded like the french horn had to be overdubbed on that tag if there wasn't a 2nd horn present in the session, alternating playing the same line one after another. It actually sounds impossible to play without being overdubbed or a 2nd horn player present.

If you mean the melodic "withouuuut" part being played in rounds at the end - that's a horn and a woodwind (although the reverb does make it sound like two horns!). All the instruments are live without a single doubt

It's hard to hear on anything but Take 20 of the backing track on UM, but each alternating round does sit differently in that stereo mix...and on all mixes the "2nd" horn has more reverb.

If Brian can overdub the same harpsichord on "You Still Believe in Me", why not the same horn on this...

You're hearing several other instruments overlapping, but not a second horn.

You can literally hear one still playing the last note while the other horn starts. That isn't reverb either.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 14, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
There were absolutely NO overdubs on this magnificent recording, other than the vocals - however, the tag was spliced in from a separate take.

It always sounded like the french horn had to be overdubbed on that tag if there wasn't a 2nd horn present in the session, alternating playing the same line one after another. It actually sounds impossible to play without being overdubbed or a 2nd horn player present.

If you mean the melodic "withouuuut" part being played in rounds at the end - that's a horn and a woodwind (although the reverb does make it sound like two horns!). All the instruments are live without a single doubt

It's hard to hear on anything but Take 20 of the backing track on UM, but each alternating round does sit differently in that stereo mix...and on all mixes the "2nd" horn has more reverb.

If Brian can overdub the same harpsichord on "You Still Believe in Me", why not the same horn on this...
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows Instruments/Credits on: August 12, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
There were absolutely NO overdubs on this magnificent recording, other than the vocals - however, the tag was spliced in from a separate take.

It always sounded like the french horn had to be overdubbed on that tag if there wasn't a 2nd horn present in the session, alternating playing the same line one after another. It actually sounds impossible to play without being overdubbed or a 2nd horn player present.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: November 10, 2015, 12:05:19 AM
can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.


Yeah... I have a degree in music composition and all I can figure is they are referencing Brian's odd bass placements (which are rarely rooted, as is typical). It's a common thing in jazz and something no jazz musician would have found perplexing if that is what it is referring to.  I can sort of see why Carol Kaye's nose would have wrinkled a bit at that. LOL

I THINK I can explain this.  The arpeggio guitar part in the middle section of WIBN (which repeats the intro of the song) is played in A.  But the bass part is in D.  If you combine the two, i.e. of you play an A chord with a D in the bass, you get (I think) a Dmaj9 chord.  So the middle bit is essentialy in D, but PLAYED IN ISOLATION, the guitar arpeggio sounds like it's in A.  I could probably explain it better with a guitar - I'll put something on YouTube if I get a chance!

I'm sure it wouldn't have taken Carol Kaye long to understand what Brian was getting at, once she'd heard the 'bigger picture'.





Absolutely my least favorite moment in the whole film, because the dialog is so clunky, and it's so didactically hitting you on the head with "Brian is blowing these studio musician's minds" thing.  And as you say above, Carol would not have had any problem seeing what was going on.

The moment is referencing a fairly obscure comment by Lyle Ritz from the PS box set, where he's talking about WIBN, and how his bass part seemed to be written in a different key from the rest of the band during the bridge.

It's not.



One of the best profile pics in the history of the message boards, bar none!  Smiley

I've also transcribed that bass and guitar part, and it does do something cool as James outlined. You get the sound of a Dmajor7th starting that bridge because the bass note is a strong D root, yet the intro sounds more like the A to Bmin7 arpeggio that is actually being played on the guitar. It's a neat trick of playing with the perception of hearing the chord as something different based on the root note played underneath. Hendrix did a similar thing later with All Along The Watchtower where what had been a straightforward A major chord in the song suddenly sounds like an F#minor7 because he played that F# root in the bass under the guitar's A chord. Simple but a very, very cool effect.

If you take the lyrics into account during this section (starts around 1:05), it could be seen as a sort of musical daydream. Like you're thinking about a special someone, and you're not quite paying fully attention to the outside world. A little off, but everything is still magically together. The background vocals in this part kinda sound like a thousand thoughts going on in your head at once, and I wonder if it was this middle section is what Brian obsessed over in the studio with the rest of the band vocally to get just right.

I don't know if that was the intended effect when it was written, but it struck me today as I was listening in the car.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Mark Linett Thread on: January 10, 2014, 06:36:05 PM
Mark, after exhausting my ears listening to the Smile Sessions for a few years now, I went back and really listened to Brian Wilson Presents Smile. I really gotta congratulate you on the engineering job you did on that album. It sounds better, while still retaining that vintage feel.
13  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Convolution reverb on: November 04, 2011, 05:21:43 PM
Altiverb has impulses for a few Western Recorders (currently East West Studios) echo chambers. I'm not sure if any of them could be patched into Studio 3.

http://www.audioease.com/IR/VenuePages/putnamrooms.html
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smile Sessions spoiler thread **Open at your own risk!** on: September 23, 2011, 07:23:31 PM
Ack, what's with all the sub-audio range hum from the control room on the Sleep a Lot session? Someone should have filtered that out...
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SPOILER!!- Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations from TSS on: September 18, 2011, 11:54:55 AM
Is it really possible that Linnet unintentionally clipped the start of the la la la part? I'm an absolute novice, and use audacity to do Smile edits. It's pretty easy to see where a section begins and ends from the waveforms, right? Surely it would be a colossal gaff for Linett to accidentally chop the start of a section out? He'd have to be editing blindfolded, or drunk or both.

It possibly is a planned defect in this "free" version of the song.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sean Macreavy - \ on: December 09, 2010, 06:16:47 PM
The best way is always try Google first; a wise OLD man told me that, I swear! 

Well, I saw the Facebook...but wasn't sure I should bother him over something like this. Heh.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Sean Macreavy - "Tune X" album on: December 08, 2010, 04:07:36 PM
I have an "official" CD-R copy of this CD, but it's now practically unreadable. Does anyone know where I can my hands on this somehow? Thanks.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian & SMiLE on: October 02, 2010, 08:24:20 PM
Check out this thread for info on the I'm Waiting For The Day bleed through: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112858

Seriously though, once you've heard it, you can't not hear it so proceed with caution.  Now it bugs me every time I play the song and I probably would have never caught on to it had it not been pointed out to me.

I always thought this was some kind of bleed-through from an adjacent echo chamber. Or two studios patched into the same echo chamber by accident.  Listening to it again, I don't hear much echo on it though. But it sounds too clear to be just an improperly erased tape.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: You still believe in me - two harpsichords? on: October 01, 2010, 09:10:18 PM
A lot of the SoT stuff seems like they only playing back 3-tracks of a 4-track tape, so this could be the case here.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / You still believe in me - two harpsichords? on: October 01, 2010, 06:26:09 PM
I hear two harpsichords in the stereo master backing track. It sounds like the 2nd one was an overdub at a later date, since it's not present in the session tapes that I've heard. They sound like different harpsichords too.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brother Records YouTube Copyright Claims on: July 03, 2008, 07:28:46 PM
Why doesnt Brothers Records freakin' release something instead of just policing youtube....

Someone has to justify their job.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Odd things in Beach Boys songs on: June 07, 2008, 06:49:54 PM
On the intro to "California Girls", at the 10 second mark, does Hal Blaine accidently hit his cymbal?

Yeah, that's always annoyed the sh*t outta me. How that slipped past Mr. Golden Ears, I dunno.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Good Vibrations vocals? on: April 23, 2008, 05:29:54 PM
Anyone by chance have the vocals isolated from the backing track available? I was gonna try to phase-cancel the backing track out by using the one on the 40th anniversarry GV single.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessense chant on: April 22, 2008, 09:22:53 PM
Thanks for posting the vocal again.

The BWPS version of  this section of Cabinessence has slightly different lyrics and doesn't have the jump in pitch in the word "catch" as the original. Guess they didn't have access to the vocal multitrack.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessense chant on: April 01, 2008, 08:55:12 AM


Here is Dennis' isolated vocal on Cabinessence for the Truck Driving Man lyrics, enjoy: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=78BD5EDB6F3B8E4A

Can someone please repost this, 'cuz this link is dead.  Grin
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