Spector.

Auteur who redefined role of produder.

One of the first successful producers to use the studio as a creative instrument in it's own right.

Created works of phonography, i.e, recordings that were not merely concerned with capturing a live performance but were defined by the fact they were recorded 'experiences', autographical rather than allographical. This was alluded to in this quote from BW.

"I was unable to really think as a producer up until the time where I really got familiar with Phil Spector's work. That was when I started to design the experience to be a record rather than just a song."


This seismic change in how we thought about and approached recording was hugely influential, not just BW, but on everyone who followed.

Whether you like his recordings or not, you cannot deny his important place in recording history.

Selling my complete collection of original vinyl when the twofers were released in '90.

I still feel sick when I about it.

This Ostrich Festival sounds fascinating.

A group of wrinkly,  dead eyed dinosaurs performing for another group of wrinkly dead eyed dinosaurs.

Just how big was that log you laid anyway?

I believe it was an eyewatering 14 inches in the Todd Gold book.

A more modest 10 inches in the more recent autobiography.

In Mike's book, the turd was not mentioned, though some believe Mike's book was the turd in some strange trans-substantiation way.

No sarcasm intended, though I often am sarcastic. Perhaps we misunderstood each other. Easily done.

Sorry for the name calling. I didn't mean it.

Kid Presentable.  Sorry if the bad word upset you. My frustration got the better of me.

You genuinely seem to have a problem accepting the fact that people didn't vote the way you wanted. A few people have commented on this now.

I gave my reason for voting Smiley Smile over Sgt Pepper.  Go back and check the thread.  I also gave my reason in voting Friends over The Beatles.

Smiley Smile is my favourite Beach Boys album. Sorry I can't give you empirical evidence or proof.  I tend to listen past production to the actual songs and arrangement.  Form / structure wise, the songs on SS are far superior to anything on Peppers. The vocal arrangements also are way beyond anything the Beatles put down that year, or ever. Heroes and Villians is a fucking masterpiece, there's that word again.  And, the sublime Wind Chimes, my god, best thing ever put down on tape by anyone. Ever.

All my subjective opinion of course.

It is also my opinion that, though there are a few semi intersting tracks on Pepper, the majority of it is awful. Good Morning is a cluttered, cacophonous mess, Within You Without You is about 5 minutes too long. McCartneys offerings are forgetable as usual, and apart from Lucy and Mr Kite, Lennon is just phoning it in. Best album ever?  Pile of boring,  overrated shite more like.

On to Friends, which is a far more cohesive album than The Beatles. Structure wise some extremely mature compositions here from Wilson. I had no problem voting the album that contained Wake the World, Busy Doing Nothing and When a Man Loves a Women over one that contains the amount of lazy filler that The Beatles does. Goodness,. I'd have been insulted playing that back in the day. Almost as conceited as your posts. That was when they realised their fans would buy anything. Its one redeeming feature is it has Julia on it, which is great. McCartneys stuff is shite as usual.

Now accept my opinion and stop trying to censor people.  Your inabilty to comprehend that others  think differently to you makes you at best a moron, at worst a psychopath.

Your posts all boil down to one simple sentiment

'B-b-b-b-but its the Beatles !!!'

Beatles fans - the religious nut jobs of the music fandom world.  

You really, truly don't get it do you?

On what planet does someones personal tatse require evidence???

I don't like the Beatles. I don't  have to justify it. Fucking deal with it.

To those that somehow voted 1967/1968/1969 for the BBs, is there any year at all where the Beatles somehow, miraculously eke out a win over the Beach Boys?  Or were the BBs somehow the best band every single year, even when they had legendary failures that had (up to that point) never been seen at such a magnitude in the music industry?  

I don't know, maybe, just maybe, people on a Beach Boys forum actually prefer the Beach Boys music over the Beatles.

It's a shocking and difficult concept to get your head around I know, and goes totally against the accepted narrative of poular culture.

So either peole are lying, or they hear things differently to you.

Utterly stunning conceit.

Not very stunning, not very conceited.  Why even do this if there is zero objectivity?  

This again?

Yes, this again unfortunately. 

It's like me going to a Spice Girls forum, and giving them some sanctimonious little speech about objectivity just because they prefer Spice World to Pet Sounds.

It seems that many, (but not all) Beatles fans confuse cultural value with musical value. That the Beatles have HUGE cultural value is something that can be discussed objectively, because it's pretty indisputable.

Whether or not you value their music though is entirely personal.

If the cultural narrative is that the Beatles were the most musically talented pop / rock band ever, and you buy into that,  then you won't be alone. Mass acceptance of a myth is something we humans are very good at. A myth is all it is though.

If most people accept that myth then it becomes an unquestionable truth to them. They then get very threatened by those who don't believe it and attempt to silence them. Belittling and mocking is a classic tactic of this very human trait.

Some of us are more enlightened though and have no problem accepting that other people experience things differently.

To those that somehow voted 1967/1968/1969 for the BBs, is there any year at all where the Beatles somehow, miraculously eke out a win over the Beach Boys?  Or were the BBs somehow the best band every single year, even when they had legendary failures that had (up to that point) never been seen at such a magnitude in the music industry? 

I don't know, maybe, just maybe, people on a Beach Boys forum actually prefer the Beach Boys music over the Beatles.

It's a shocking and difficult concept to get your head around I know, and goes totally against the accepted narrative of poular culture.

So either peole are lying, or they hear things differently to you.

Utterly stunning conceit.

Revolution 9 is better than half of Friends. Just saying...

You forgot to miss the 'g' off of 'saying'.

It's not passive aggressive unless you do that, you kno

Whilst I obviously will vote for the sublime and cohesive Friends album over that messy filler filled affair The Beatles, I have to say that Julia is a beautiful song and easily stands up against Wilson's best works in terms of songwriting.

Fascinating, the mental gymnastics one would have to go through to declare this year a win for the BBs. 

Yeah, you've got me. Secretly I love the Beatles and think they're the greatest composers who ever lived.

Deep down I know my love of the pure musical perfection of Smiley Smile is but a sham compared to the Sgt Pepper,  which is in no way overrated, full of genius tracks such as When I'm 64, Good Mornihg, Good Morning and Wthin You Without You, (which isn't the least bit boring)

'Cos anyone who says they don't like the Beatles must be lying right?

I definitely wasn't referring to you, as your sarcasm moves at typhoon force in this thread!

It is unstoppable.

Fascinating, the mental gymnastics one would have to go through to declare this year a win for the BBs. 

Yeah, you've got me. Secretly I love the Beatles and think they're the greatest composers who ever lived.

Deep down I know my love of the pure musical perfection of Smiley Smile is but a sham compared to the Sgt Pepper,  which is in no way overrated, full of genius tracks such as When I'm 64, Good Mornihg, Good Morning and Wthin You Without You, (which isn't the least bit boring)

'Cos anyone who says they don't like the Beatles must be lying right?

Mike, wake up, you've been asleep!

From the muttering, it sounds like you were having a terrible dream.

Now, get back to work, those metal sheets aren't going to scrape themselves you know!

Mike......, Mike, why are you crying?

1) Tell me about your time in Rishikesh? What were the Beatles like? Did you collaborate on any music with them,?

2) The Wilsons drug use is well documented, did you feel it inpacted negatively in any way?

3) Tell me about Good Vibrations, that music is pretty far out but somehow it seems to work. Why is that?

4) Some of Brian's music is quite melancholy, what attributres do you feel you brought to the band?

5) Wouldn't It Be Nice us a great song, but your little vocal tag at the end really lifts it to the next level. Why were you never credited for that?

7 years, goodness me!

That's sobering.

Shall I use an emoticon next time?

He certainly loved playing his organ.

Hmmm, its not fair to compare one of these albums to the greatest album ever made.

Peppers is OK I suppose,  but Smiley Smile is so awesome that there's just no contest.

No, it was about the strip clubs Mike was dragging Brian to each night.

If you look at the speech (and mic adjustment) from Mike's narrative that he has been wronged at every turn, then it all makes sense.

I will defend him to the point of saying "I'm glad my family's dirty laundry isn't aired in public", but I look at him and think, how can someone have been so lucky in life and be so ungrateful?

I've heard about the 'restoration' sessions. Was anything actually recorded?

I know, I know,, you're really not pointing out to me anything I don't already know.

I'm just not as quick to dismiss a quote from the man himself, over another quote from someone who by his own admission was very stoned throughout this period. And the photos. I know. I know Brian used the board. I don't need to see evidence.

As you have just posted that clipping in a dismissive 'final word' sort of way though,  I'll leave it there also.  Unconvinced by your argument.

I'm not arguing or being dismissive, I'm just reposting those photos to show examples for people who weren't around in 2013 or whenever I posted all that stuff to show Brian at the Western 3 board mixing on 8-track, and to show what Chuck Britz looked like in some shots you don't see as often as the egg nog one, for example.

Re-read Vosse's recollections of the Smile sessions. He nails every description of the tracks which we could finally hear for ourselves decades later, and maybe one or two which may or may not be out there to hear. To dismiss him on the basis he was stoned all the time isn't supported at all by his actual descriptions of that era in his article from a year or so after he witnessed and heard all this stuff. I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to write off what the man said on the basis he was too stoned to have a good memory of it, because his memory in that article is right on the money as we can hear for ourselves.

And it's not dismissing what Chuck said or pushing an agenda to mention how there isn't enough context in the quote to nail down exactly what Chuck was describing, or what exactly was being done at the board. In the Columbia incident, Brian reached for a control on the board and had his hand slapped by a union engineer, that we know was done because of that engineer strictly following the rules of the union. In the case of Chuck Britz, again there is more evidence to show Chuck was not running sessions with Brian that way, in fact it was generally the opposite. And it's not just stoned ramblings backing that up.  

And I think it was up to the actual engineer how strictly they followed these "rules". I'll go back to hearing Phil Ramone describe a similar incident he experienced a few decades later where his hands were slapped down by an engineer because that engineer thought the rules of the union should be strictly enforced...because Phil Ramone being a world-class engineer himself was at that session as producer, and it wasn't his job to adjust knobs or faders. That's following the "rules" strictly by the book, but not everyone did that, in fact most I'd say did not. Now it's a moot point except maybe in the broadcast TV or radio business where those sound engineers still carry union cards and follow the rules more than in the music biz.

All fair points Craig. I still think there's more to that quote, but I'll stop going on about it.

I know, I know,, you're really not pointing out to me anything I don't already know.

I'm just not as quick to dismiss a quote from the man himself, over another quote from someone who by his own admission was very stoned throughout this period. And the photos. I know. I know Brian used the board. I don't need to see evidence.

As you have just posted that clipping in a dismissive 'final word' sort of way though,  I'll leave it there also.  Unconvinced by your argument.

I totally get all the stories, references and evidence to the contrary.

But against those we have an incongruous quote, from Chuck, which I read as quite explicit in it's meaning.

Is it possible the rules were relaxed after PetSounds?