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625358 Posts in 25129 Topics by 3574 Members - Latest Member: Saxapahaw January 22, 2018, 04:14:40 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars on: January 19, 2018, 12:47:37 PM
I've heard about the 'restoration' sessions. Was anything actually recorded?
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 18, 2018, 11:35:10 AM
I know, I know,, you're really not pointing out to me anything I don't already know.

I'm just not as quick to dismiss a quote from the man himself, over another quote from someone who by his own admission was very stoned throughout this period. And the photos. I know. I know Brian used the board. I don't need to see evidence.

As you have just posted that clipping in a dismissive 'final word' sort of way though,  I'll leave it there also.  Unconvinced by your argument.

I'm not arguing or being dismissive, I'm just reposting those photos to show examples for people who weren't around in 2013 or whenever I posted all that stuff to show Brian at the Western 3 board mixing on 8-track, and to show what Chuck Britz looked like in some shots you don't see as often as the egg nog one, for example.

Re-read Vosse's recollections of the Smile sessions. He nails every description of the tracks which we could finally hear for ourselves decades later, and maybe one or two which may or may not be out there to hear. To dismiss him on the basis he was stoned all the time isn't supported at all by his actual descriptions of that era in his article from a year or so after he witnessed and heard all this stuff. I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to write off what the man said on the basis he was too stoned to have a good memory of it, because his memory in that article is right on the money as we can hear for ourselves.

And it's not dismissing what Chuck said or pushing an agenda to mention how there isn't enough context in the quote to nail down exactly what Chuck was describing, or what exactly was being done at the board. In the Columbia incident, Brian reached for a control on the board and had his hand slapped by a union engineer, that we know was done because of that engineer strictly following the rules of the union. In the case of Chuck Britz, again there is more evidence to show Chuck was not running sessions with Brian that way, in fact it was generally the opposite. And it's not just stoned ramblings backing that up.  Smiley

And I think it was up to the actual engineer how strictly they followed these "rules". I'll go back to hearing Phil Ramone describe a similar incident he experienced a few decades later where his hands were slapped down by an engineer because that engineer thought the rules of the union should be strictly enforced...because Phil Ramone being a world-class engineer himself was at that session as producer, and it wasn't his job to adjust knobs or faders. That's following the "rules" strictly by the book, but not everyone did that, in fact most I'd say did not. Now it's a moot point except maybe in the broadcast TV or radio business where those sound engineers still carry union cards and follow the rules more than in the music biz.


All fair points Craig. I still think there's more to that quote, but I'll stop going on about it. Smiley
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 18, 2018, 09:50:52 AM
I know, I know,, you're really not pointing out to me anything I don't already know.

I'm just not as quick to dismiss a quote from the man himself, over another quote from someone who by his own admission was very stoned throughout this period. And the photos. I know. I know Brian used the board. I don't need to see evidence.

As you have just posted that clipping in a dismissive 'final word' sort of way though,  I'll leave it there also.  Unconvinced by your argument.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 18, 2018, 09:27:43 AM
I totally get all the stories, references and evidence to the contrary.

But against those we have an incongruous quote, from Chuck, which I read as quite explicit in it's meaning.

Is it possible the rules were relaxed after PetSounds?
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian at Hawthorne HS recently on: January 18, 2018, 08:13:38 AM
I don't remember hearing about that.   I remember there was a trailer on The Beach Boys Facebook page a year or two ago that looked to be a documentary on the current touring band, but it turned out that it was fan made. 

So, maybe Mike's doc went the way of that phantom "History of The Beach Boys" doc that was teased back in the summer of 2012......or did that become the Doin It Again doc?

Yeah, back in 2015 he had mentioned it in a couple interviews, here's one...

Quote
Interviewer: Do you plan on turning your new book into a film?

Mike: Well, Iím not doing it to make it into film. But being in India with Maharishi, meeting Marlon Brando, being friends with so many people in the music industry and some of the trials and tribulations, the ups and downs, it makes for quite a story. So I wouldnít be at all surprised if it were to become a film. However, in the meantime Iím hoping to come up with a documentary that really shows my point of view. I think that thatís plenty to do in the next six months to a year.

But I also remember one where he was fairly certain about the documentary in terms of being a companion with his book.

Hasn't Mike already made a documentary that shows his point of view?

It's called 'The Beach Boys: An American Family'
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 18, 2018, 08:03:40 AM
Just to be clear, the 'bullshit historian with an agenda' refers to an ex member of this board, but you knew that. Razz

To me, the word sneak speaks volumes. And I love Vosses reminiscences, but always factor in these guys were very stoned

7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 17, 2018, 11:38:46 PM
aeijtzsche and guitarfool

Yes, that's a tough one to call. Recollection of the actual engineer vs recollections of stoned guys.

To me, 'Sneaking his hands on' and 'moving them off' sounds pretty clear.

That he shouldn't be doing it is strongly implied in the word sneak.

The moving off is a firm reminder.

If it doesn't fit other descriptions and causes a discrepency, you can't just explain it away as something else just because it doesn't fit. That's disingenuous to Chuck Britz.  

Either you're researchers who stick to the truth, or you're bullshit historians with an agenda to push.

Be researchers,  you're damn good at it.  Smiley

8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1963: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles on: January 17, 2018, 02:24:38 PM
The Beatles were a great band. Still, I can't imagine anyone believing the Fab 4's music in 1963 was anywhere close to Beach Boys quality.

You really can't imagine *anyone* believing that? You really feel the Beatles' 1963 output was *that* inferior to the BBs?

I can't imagine anyone who truly knows both catalogs up and down having such an extreme view. I think anywhere but a BB message board, other well-informed fans or critics would hand the year to the Beatles. I *do* think a compelling argument can be made for the BBs, and reading such an argument is worthwhile. But I think it's beyond extreme to claim incredulity as to why someone would point to the Beatles' 1963 output being superior.

Hey Jude. I have great respect for you and always enjoy your posts, so this is in no way an attack on you.

I don't share 4th Wilson Brothers inabilty to imagine, but I do share his sentiment about quality, and extend it to the entire Beatles catalogue. I'm not trying to be hip, different,  ironic, difficult, or contrary.

I just don't like the Beatles music very much. I don't hate it. It just does nothing for me. It bores me if I'm honest. I genuinely put I Get Around, which I consider a piece of musical perfection, well above their entire catalogue.

Your seeming reaction  of utter incredulous disbelief is typical I'm afraid. A lot of Beatles fans genuinely dont get people who don't share their almost religuous devotion. Me, I couldn't care less if people hate the Beach Boys.

If I'm misreading what you appear to be saying then I apologise. I also apologise for being patronizing,  but you do need to accept the fact that their are some very musically minded people out there who don't share your love. They're not wrong, they just hear a different thing to you.

Rant over Smiley
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 17, 2018, 09:57:50 AM
I love Chuck's quote in the PS booklet about having to continually swipe Brian's hand off the console. Aaah those union days......
I looked for such a quote and couldn't find it?

I think the stories are getting confused a bit. Chuck Britz allowed Brian to work the board at Western, to the point of mixing the tracks hands-on. That was one reason why Brian recorded at Western. What happened with Columbia was a supposed incident where an engineer did swipe Brian's hands away from the board during a session. That is not unheard of with the union rules and how certain engineers were more strict on union rules than others. I heard from Phil Ramone that the same thing happened to him years later, and Phil Ramone is/was one of the premier producers in music. But that's how some of the union engineers were regarding them doing their jobs and the producers doing theirs.

The incident with Brian at Columbia got inflated through the years and the pipeline of info to morph into the notion that Brian was never allowed to run the mixing board at Columbia.

Yet we have film of Brian running a GV session at Columbia, at that same board shown in the photos above with Melcher/Johnston/Asher, where he is actively working the mixing board and no one is slapping his hands away.

I think it depended on who was engineering at Columbia and how strict they were in terms of the union regulations on who could operate what on a session. And Brian as producer could always refuse to book time with whoever the engineer was that slapped his hand away and work with other staff engineers.

But it was not Chuck Britz at Western. Chuck in fact allowed Brian to work hands-on in the mixing, and some of the results were stunning. Read Michael Vosse's Fusion piece for some examples of this.

No confusion here.

'Once Brian was done with the arrangement, he would come into the booth and say 'Let me hear you, Hal'. He would have certain guys play things. He'd say, 'Let's hear everybody ' I wouldn't be rolling tape. He was just listening. He would tell me to add this much echo....let me hear so and so. He would go back and forth until he heard the instruments he wanted to hear, and then he would tell me what he wanted. Then he would sneak the pots (control knobs)  up, and I would move his hand off the board. When he had the sound he wanted, he would say 'Okay Charlie, let's record' It went pretty quickly after that'

The Making  Of Pet Sounds pg.54 paragraph 4

Certainly not the description of a one off occurrence. Maybe the union rules changed after PS?
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian at Hawthorne HS recently on: January 17, 2018, 12:13:48 AM
It's a great song, but Mr Morgan asked him to write something in sonata form. This is a slippery slope.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 15, 2018, 10:58:09 PM


This is the one you want.  Much simpler than the CBS board.  Presumably, corporate money contributed to the more extensive set-up, although Western Studio 1 had a much more advanced board by this point, too.

I love Chuck's quote in the PS booklet about having to continually swipe Brian's hand off the console. Aaah those union days......
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1965: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles on: January 14, 2018, 11:47:30 AM

Ideally, you would think this poll would be a win for The Beatles.


Would I?

13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles on: January 10, 2018, 10:59:18 AM
I Get Around on it's own  outweighs the entire Beatles catalogue.  Wink
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Holland was released 45 years ago today. on: January 09, 2018, 10:46:01 PM
Usually I'm one to detach emotion from music and just listen analytically,  but I don't spin Holland often because it puts me in a depressed mood. Something about those songs, the sound, and even the cover bring me right down.

I like the songs, Mike's line at the end of Funky Pretty is one of the best  contrapunctal melodies they did.

But something about it makes me feel despondent. Only Beach Boys album (in my collection) to do that
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love you instruments? on: January 07, 2018, 07:46:21 AM
Have any true instrumentals, acapellas, vocal / instruments stems ever been released either legitimate/illegitimate?
Backing vocals of Let Us Go On This Way and a capella mix of The Night Was So Young have been released illegitimately.



Let us go on this way (backing vocals):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6308jJj3RA



The night was so young (vocals only):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UUD6hu3Yyc




Such a great album, full of classic Beach Boys harmonies  Love

Wow, thank you for digging these out. Wonderful stuff.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1963: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles on: January 07, 2018, 12:36:28 AM
Easy for me, Beach Boys, every year, every time. No comparison.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Session work with Roy Wood on: January 01, 2018, 11:29:33 PM
Hi,

Funny he said that Brian was strange. Most people thought this of Roy too in the early 70's I think...



Brian could outstrange the strangest. Iggy and Alice spring to mind
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson on: January 01, 2018, 11:27:19 PM
Genuinely sorry if anyone thought I was being ditasteful or a bully.

I found RR coming in on a thread commemorating someone's death with criticisms and arguments extremely rude. And my initial response was polite and measured.

Perhaps it's cultural. This is the danger of an international board eh?

And it's not the first time RR has had this effect on me. So there's history there. This didn't  come out of nowhere.

So my new years resolution can be to ignore said person's threads in future. Vice Versa can apply.

Happy new year guys  Smiley
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson on: January 01, 2018, 06:47:08 AM
Ha, love a bit of irony to start the new year.
To make you even happier, I shan't post here again. I said what was intended to be said & stand by it. Done deal.

This practice of posting tactless and inappropriate stuff online then getting all offended when called out about it seems to be spreading.

I ackowledge and welcome your resignation from this board.

If only getting Trump off Twitter were this easy...........
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson on: January 01, 2018, 12:15:26 AM
There isn't one composer who's ever recorded their own songs where I can honestly say that I like...let alone love...ALL of their songs...not Dennis...not Brian...not Bob Marley...not ANYBODY.
Thanks, that's what truly is fair & respectful reply, without shutting posters.

Ha, love a bit of irony to start the new year.

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson on: December 31, 2017, 01:11:22 AM
Just like his big brother, Dennis had something magical as a songwriter that makes us always want more.
Us? I definitely didn't hear anything "magical" in Dennis' songwriting. I dislike Pacific Ocean Blue, Bambu even duller. He'd written his best songs during BBs (60s-70s). AND made Charles Manson song better miles away. 3D You see, Dennis did possess talent but his music tends to be too dramatic. It can be tedious to get thru it.


Your opinion is welcome, but there is a time and place.

Perhaps a bit more tact in a thread commemorating his death, eh?

22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sweet Insanity - prospects on: December 31, 2017, 01:03:52 AM
My personal favourite on this collection is 'You're Making Me Harder'

Great little sing along.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: ďDo It AgainĒ remake named one of the worst songs of the year by Stereogum on: December 31, 2017, 01:00:27 AM
Someone dont know what music is! Easily should be in the top 40!

It is. Top 40 Worst Songs.

Imagine if he'd made it to no.1 worst song. He'd have been crowing about it for years to come.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Methods that the band used to get into the zone for vocals? on: December 28, 2017, 02:50:39 AM
They used to invite Murry down.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best bootlegs to look into on: December 14, 2017, 06:36:29 AM
For the serious fan, the SOT series, hands down.
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