There are alot of interesting observations  one could make about the previous comments.  My opinion is that   maybe Carl just didn't like the Andy Paley  material!  SIMPLE AS THAT . Ive heard it, and while there are  a few cool lines and melodies here  and there, Im not sure i get it either. To call it retro seems a bit of a stretch to me. The production is very raw plain and simple. And not in a good way. While i get the Wall of Sound implications, the arrangements to me do not sound like Brian at all. Just because you have a bunch of Baritone saxes in the mix doesn't mean its a wall of sound. When I listen to the clarinets in Imagination, or even the saxes in Blueberry Hill from 15 Big Ones, I believe i can hear the genius of BW!  Also, Am i the only one that can't picture  Carl singing the line" I was a Bum " and comparing it to the feeling he had singing "I may not always love you" ? Maybe im being paranoid but i keep hearing references to Stars and Stripes ( mostly jabs) Is there a joke here that im not in on? I grew up listening to country, In the late 90's my parents loved L Morgan, Willie Nelson etc. They wore out the Stars and Stripes CD. The arrangements on Warmth of the Sun and Caroline No were amazing! I can see Jimmy Webb and Brian working together in some studio and inspiring the heck out of each other. Im not getting that same feeling listening to the almost two hours of you tube renditions of the Paley sessions. Everyone should have their own opinion but based on the fact that the Paley material has been available to the public for quite awhile, and given the fact that i have NEVER heard Brian mention that he was anxious to get back into the studio with Paley  maybe Brian himself wasn't all that proud of the stuff either, and maybe he didn't push it. I agree that    Carl and Mike probably didn't like the material, and thought that Brian or they could do better. Stars and Strips much like 15 Big Ones could have been their way to slowly get Brian back in to the studio without putting too much pressure on him. Who wouldn't want to work with Jimmy Webb and Willie Nelson ?  I will say that i do not to this day get the name Stars and Stripes, although the CD  to me was a great idea if it had 5 or 6 remakes and a couple of new Brian Wilson Beach Boy songs.

I actually appreciate the response! Its becoming clearer to me.

1) With respect to my previous statement I do stand corrected, according to Wikipedia, Your Imagination was Top Twenty on the Billboard AC Charts. My point is that it still should be on this anthology

2) I love the explanation by Seidman as to how HE recorded Brian. No mention of Joe Thomas smooshing though. So if Seidman is the guy recording this, Why isn't he accused of being the smoosher?

3) I am a bigger Stevie Nicks fan than Brian. A Joe Thomas is listed as a producer or co producer on several of her releases. Is this the same guy?

4) A Bob Clearmountan is listed as mixer on NPP. If Seidman was mixing elbow to elbow with Brian on NPP, why wasn't Clearmountain mentioned in the Seidman article? Why isn't Seidman listed as mixer?

5) When you read about NPP on Wikipedia, there are accusations that Thomas auto tuned the album. If Seidman mixed or Clearmountain mixed, did Thomas steal the tapes and Auto tune and smoosh them while all of these other guys weren't looking?

Joe Thomas must have the worst publicist in the world.  Or he just doesn't care or realize what people are saying about him. Andy Paley is listed on the Imagination WIKI page as bashing him. To me Paley  really comes off as pretty jealous. So do a couple of other people on that WIKI page. On the NPP page they reference other bashers. Yet we never or almost never hear from Thomas. Or do we and Im to new to have noticed?

If i were this guy I would say something.

Ive been holding back with any new comments, but now i really feel that i need to inject my opinion . I love  RJR! Im disappointed in the overall CD. Greatest Hits? One For The Boys not on it? Your  Imagination ,the only top ten single Brian ever had as a solo artist not on it? Some Sweet Day  was the  record companies answer to what new fans like myself wanted to hear? Pretty sad. I still bought the CD!  On another front,This smushing conspiracy theory doesnt make any sense to me. Joe Thomas is the smusher from what im reading. He's not listed as the producer on TWGMTR yet  the theory is that he came in and while taking no credit caused all of the smashing? He  WAS credited on NPP and of course caused the smushing? And then even though he is credited with Brian as the co producer of RJR , which many of you admit sounds great, and i agree, he came in and  smushed one  line? The non smushed vocals were  taken from a session that he was  not in attendance ?  How do we know this? Or is this how it reads? Brian now  free this year finally  from the " shackles that were binding him down " ( Joe Thomas) un smushed a few new lines alone this year at the  session that Thomas was not part of!  Im just trying to get this all understood.  In the meantime i would prefer to  just sticking to the known facts. Im going to enjoy  the one new song that we all seem to agree is a step in the right direction! I  am happy that we have  an uptempo Rock Brian track with great guitar playing written by Brian and Thomas, and produced by Brian and Thomas, and sounding way more in line with what fans  my age ( 24 ) listen to, than the dated tracks that are being dusted off from the nineties. I do not care if  its Andy Paley , Joe Thomas, Mike Love or whomever Brian chooses to make new music with , I just want to hear NEW MUSIC from Brian. And I am sorry ,but I do not hear any smushing!

I absolutely love it! Could this be the first song of the Brian Rock & Roll Album that he's been mentioning for years? Please no remakes, just more of this!

I am not saying that I am not fan of the Gershwin project I just get more enthused about Brian recording his own material and I like his work with Joe Thomas. I agree no more remakes, which include Brian's interpretations of Disney tunes also. Been there done that, sounded good.

Question: It seems to me, there are many insiders on these threads. Some seem to have personal recollections.  Engineers that have worked with Brian have articles in Rolling Stone, etc. but have any of you spoken to Joe Thomas or has he ever been interviewed on this site? Seems like one conversation with him could clear up a lot. I would think he would be anxious to right any wrongs about him. Does he even know these threads exists?

Joe did a lot of interviews with an about back around the time of Imagination. He subsequently was sued by Brian and Melinda, and then sued them.

Since returning to the fold with TWGMTR, Joe has done only a couple of interviews that I'm aware of. My impression is that he simply doesn't want to appear to take undue credit (which rubs Brian's folks the wrong way) and would rather do his work and enjoy his life without attendant drama.

That being said, he did give a single extensive interview about five years ago, which can be found here: http://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

Enjoy!

Edit: And I see someone already posted it.

Thank you! This was very informative. They seem very comfortable with each other and it explains a lot. Two friends doing what they like to do best and it shows musically. You're also probably right about Thomas, he enjoys his life too much to get into the fray. Still can't figure out why theres is so much negativity from some fans.

I am not saying that I am not fan of the Gershwin project I just get more enthused about Brian recording his own material and I like his work with Joe Thomas. I agree no more remakes, which include Brian's interpretations of Disney tunes also. Been there done that, sounded good.

Question: It seems to me, there are many insiders on these threads. Some seem to have personal recollections.  Engineers that have worked with Brian have articles in Rolling Stone, etc. but have any of you spoken to Joe Thomas or has he ever been interviewed on this site? Seems like one conversation with him could clear up a lot. I would think he would be anxious to right any wrongs about him. Does he even know these threads exists?

As a fairly new fan I am moved to make a comment and observation. I am a 22 year old college student who happens to love NPP & C50. I still to this day do not get the negativity over these albums. The songs are amazing and original TLOS  is an album based on a song Brian didn't write. The Gershwin album includes no songs that Brian wrote.

I seems to me that many of you are saying that any of the good songs on NPP & C50 must be Brian, and the bad songs or bad recording techniques must be Thomas. How about Whatever Happened, what can anyone possibly not like about that gem?  I read Brian's book and it sounds to me that he actually likes the guy. Why can't we just leave it at that.

"Whatever Happened" would have been my choice from NPP. I believe its Brian's best song in years! 

This is the most exciting news I've heard in awhile. I would buy the CD just to hear Run James Run. The fact that there are some vintage tracks along with it, is just a bonus! Maybe Brian is releasing his Rock & Roll album one new track at a time.

Good comments here!
I have to confess I'm feeling better about liking Imagination so little (nothing in that album ever clicked with me the right way), seen what Brian himself says.
Based on the interviews and what little else I knew of him, I had imagined Joe as exactly the type of man described by Timbnash68. A type I like.

P.S.
Also, Captain, I just read your comments on NPP in the PS forum and really appreciated them. I think you got the "spirit" of the album right.

Agree with THORGIL! Sounds like a pretty safe working environment for Brian. From what I read in the book they seem to be very good friends, there was plenty of good food, golf and a little work thrown in for good measure. Quite the opposite of the tumultuous studio environment Brian endured in the 60's with his dad yelling at him at for any reason what so ever.

quote author=♩♬ John Lemon ♯♫♩ link=topic=24451.msg592598#msg592598 date=1476239185]

This argument discounts voters who find his opponent utterly corrupt and equally disgusting (which I'm sure you attribute to misogyny), and have determined him to be the slightly lesser of two evils.

This belongs in the sandbox, but...

some of us find them both detestable and are not voting for either.

 I have been a fan of this site for quite awhile but always been too nervous to state my opinion. I am only in my early 20's, a huge Brian fan and I'd hate to see politics creeping into our wonderful music reality of Brian Wilson. The TV is on constantly at our house and I happily put my head phones on to listen to Pet sounds to escape the crazy politics in our world. Can we please get back to the music? Now that I have officially posted my first response I'm anxious to get a real discussion going.



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