Well, TWGMTR is tuned to all buggary in both the leads and the backgrounds. It’s way too robotically perfect to be real. Side note: it makes me particularly sad when Al is clearly still singing like an angel on From Here To Back Again and yet Joe Thomas and team still felt it necessary to tune the life out of his performance. I’d love to hear the untuned version ❤️

Honestly, I think it's pretty much impossible to generalize this.  The fact is that they switched around a whole lot.  They didn't all sing on everything; they swapped around, even from one take to another.  There are a few years where Brian and Mike are often the high and low voices, and of course it's pretty safe to put Mike lowest much of the time (not always).  But as time goes on and we are able to analyze these things better and better, it becomes apparent that there was no set order, and anything we thought we could rely on...we can't.  By 1965, every track is a blank slate, really.

Excellent point. I just wondered if they had a standard approach when it came to their strict four part numbers like Surfer Girl and the Freshmen covers. From what I’ve gathered so far it seems it was usually Brian, Carl, Dennis Mike up until Al rejoins, then Brian/Bruce, Al, Carl, Mike after that.

Yeah it’s possible Dave is doubling Dennis at times - he he must have been singing those parts in the live band.

Where was Dave's spot in the vocal stack on the first few albums?

I believe Brian wasn’t keen on letting him sing in the records- I don’t think he’s singing on any of them, but I’m happy to be corrected.

Thanks all for your posts, that’s been very educational for me!

Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know if there’s already a thread on this topic? I always find myself picking out a specific harmony part and wondering who it is that I’m hearing in that magnificent stack.

Forgive me if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I’ve never known whether it was more common for Al or Carl to be the second highest voice in the stack. Also can someone please furnish me with some examples of both instances? I’ve always been fascinated by this, and obviously the brilliant vocals reference thread on here only refers to lead and featured vocals. Thanks in advance!

Sorry if this has been covered.

What’s the deal with the ending of surfs up live in 73? The performance is beautiful, especially Carl's lead, and then there’s this really weird series of hits at the end. It sounds random to me, does anyone else feel the same way? Or am I missing some reference in the music?

Forgive me if this has been covered, but is anyone else concerned about the language regarding rebranding focused on “the beach boys lifestyle”? Mike and at various times everyone in the band have attempted to sell the beach boys lifestyle brand since Do It Again. Isn’t that part of the image problem that you’d want a rebrand to change? Shouldn't the focus, rather than lifestyle, be on songs? So that they can be taken seriously as artists, just like their new stable mates Eagles, Steely Dan et al.

On the analogue productions website it describes Sunflower as “one of the few 'true stereo' (soft) rock records ever recorded.”

What does this mean please?

Great BB pastiche in the latest episode (at least on UK Netflix) of “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” - S4: E6 “I See You”.

Nicely takes you through 3 popular phases of the boys’ career - funny and well written (but way too much auto tune...)

Dennis, Carl and Bruce were very good composers, Mike at his peak was a very good lyricist. I’m not sure that it makes sense to rank them as we’re not comparing like with like.

It’s an interesting thing, context. I feel that for me this conversation may partly explain why there is so much love out there in the fan base for Rio Grande and BW88 as a whole.

I think there's some truth to that.   But, I also think underneath the really bad production, there are some really good songs on the album.   I just don't consider Rio Grande to be one of them.  

Agreed, although for me L&M and Melt Away are the only songs worth writing home about.

It’s an interesting thing, context. I feel that for me this conversation may partly explain why there is so much love out there in the fan base for Rio Grande and BW88 as a whole.

Good point well made sir - it must have been exciting to see this kind of work from BW in ‘88, showing promise of an interesting solo career.

Re Kokomo, obviously John P was massively to thank, Mike could never compose such great pop! Hooks and feel-good lyrics, those are his things.

1- POB is massively overrated by critics and hardcore fans alike. It starts so promisingly with River Song and then immediately plummets in quality.

Compared to what the band was doing at the time POB is a masterpiece.  Massively over-rated?  Not a chance.  Over-rated by some?  maybe so.

2- DW’s ballads and lead vocals, while at times beautiful, are often over-emotional and have an air of self-indulgence.

And who in the group nailed every song they ever sang?  Ok...  Carl was pretty consistent...and Al still has 'it'.

3- Brian Wilson is the only GREAT composer in The Beach Boys. The other members each have a handful of good ones (except perhaps Mike, who is by far the best lyricist in the band, but who composed very few songs), and only two that come close to BW levels of greatness- Forever and Disney Girls.

No...for the most part...although Brian outdoes the rest combined by about 9 or 10 times with the A-1 output.  There are more than just 2 other terrific BB's songs beyond those penned by Brian.  Mike WAS the best lyricist in the band...for about 4 years.  Since then?  Not a chance.  Not even close.  His post '66 stuff is pretty much just olde.

4- The music recorded for Smile is BETTER than the hype surrounding it would suggest. It is transcendent, and the lyrics magical.

YES.

5- Rio Grande sucks!

Hell's Bells NO!!!  It was a relief to hear...and light years beyond anything the 'group' was doing at the time.

Good point on the time-frame re Mike’s lyrics. But I’d take Mike at his peak over the rest of the boys’ efforts combined! Even if he doesn’t quite understand what alliteration is...

Re Rio Grande, I feel that that it is heralded as a great piece simply because it is presented in a progressive suite form. Essentially style over substance. Kokomo, now that’s a great song.

Iain Hornal, touring member of ELO and 10cc is a massive Beach Boys fan. His album sampler is here:
https://hornal.tmstor.es

I’ve really enjoyed reading through this thread, it turns out that most views that go against the party-line of either the hardcore or casual fan base are in fact shared by quite a few.

Pretty much all my “unpopular opinions” have been covered already but for what it’s worth:

1- POB is massively overrated by critics and hardcore fans alike. It starts so promisingly with River Song and then immediately plummets in quality.

2- DW’s ballads and lead vocals, while at times beautiful, are often over-emotional and have an air of self-indulgence.

3- Brian Wilson is the only GREAT composer in The Beach Boys. The other members each have a handful of good ones (except perhaps Mike, who is by far the best lyricist in the band, but who composed very few songs), and only two that come close to BW levels of greatness- Forever and Disney Girls.

4- The music recorded for Smile is BETTER than the hype surrounding it would suggest. It is transcendent, and the lyrics magical.

5- Rio Grande sucks!

Does anyone have a link to that goldmine interview? Sounds like a cracker!

Thanks for the replies. So did the other members vote for Al to be suspended in ‘93? I’m surprised that happened while Carl was still around.

Apologies if this has been covered many times before, I couldn’t find the relevant thread.

I have heard about Al’s departure in the late 90’s, but wondered what was the reason for Mike wanting him out?

Also, was he dismissed in ‘93? What happened there?

Thanks in advance!

Most of Pacific Ocean Blue - apart from River Song I don't get the fuss at all.
Rio Grande
Almost all the cover songs - whenever they play a live cover I will them to move on, mourning whichever piece of BW magic I could imagine that could have been played in its place. Even when the arrangement is great, their covers lack essential BB character for me.

Any other smiley smilers here?