This is a great topic that I'm going to revive for kicks.

I just picked up the Curt "California Music" CD from Poptones that was released a few years ago (they also did the Gary Usher "Symphonic Tribute" to Brian release). Brian is credited as one of the list of the producers inside (along with Usher, Melcher and Johnston).

But I'm only aware of him working on the WDFFIL cover (which oddly isn't on the release) and Jamaica Farewell. Did he actually have a hand in anything else that's on the CD?

I expect we'll hear more of it at some point. Too many good songs remain unreleased. Whether or not we'll hear in them in the Paley sessions form -- I worry that depends largely on whether Brian is alive, sad to say. That being said, given the success of the POB/Bambu reissue, one could imagine a two-disk version of Imagination or the IJWMFTT soundtrack with Paley tracks as a second disk.

The point being, though, as long as Brian has a solo career, songs like:

Some Sweet Day
Chain Reaction of Love
Marketplace
You're Still a Mystery
Mary Anne
It's Not Easy Being Me

Are a valuable backup for any future solo album, easily plugging any songwriting holes.

It's also possible the Brian was displaying TD-like symptoms in the late 80s early 90s but that the removal of Landy and that drug regimen also eliminated those symptoms (the documentation above suggests that TD can diminish once the drugs are gone). We have a lot less footage of Brian from that era then we do of him in the last 10 years.

Luther -- When I said subsidized, I meant that the artist himself or herself would pay for their art through outside work. Not that they would get a government grant or something.

But I do think that what the Beach Boys are -- what Brian Wilson is -- is hugely shaped by the context of popular music. That is, there is such a thing as a stream of music that is listened to and enjoyed by a broad swath of the public. I think the loss of that -- and we are losing it -- profoundly changes our culture and the meaning of the music made within it.

Luther: It does matter if bands and musicians are able to have careers doing what they love. Do you think the Beach Boys -- or any other popular band, for that matter -- would have been able to continue making elaborate studio albums without a broad public buying them?

The counter-argument, I suppose, is that music shouldn't be a full-time occupation anyway -- or if it is, it should be like the classical world, where composers generally work in academia or in soundtracks to subsidize their more purely creative endeavors.

Well, I think the chances are very good that we won't have another Beach Boys, Beatles, etc. anytime soon.

The world is simply too different for any one group to have such cultural leverage. Means of distribution are decentralized, and there is no single (or even half-dozen) tastemakers to determine what gets played.

I think that probably makes for more interesting music, but it's less influential across a broad swath of people.

Brian: I think that's absolutely the crux of the matter. Very nicely put.

I suppose that for me, it's not an either/or. I find the duplication and inspiration both compelling. Certainly an album like "The Soft Bulletin" or something has greater individuality (and arguably more artistic quality) because the band is trying to extend the orchestral pop sound. But I can enjoy the Explorers because it sounds like a lost album from the 60s -- on the level of Sagittarius or something.

And speaking of ABBA -- "On and On and On" totally rips from "Do It Again." I had no idea.

Also, REM goes to the BW/BB well in both the "Up" and "Reveal" albums. Peter Buck has a thing for the "Love You" synths.

Incidentally, I'm so sorry to have derailed this from the point. Please forgive.

I didn't compare anyone to Hitler, but I did cite the dictionary first, which is nearly as bad.

Yes, let's go through that definition.

1.   to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually fol. by up): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car.
2.   to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight.
3.   to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc. (usually fol. by up).
4.   to trick; gull.
–noun
5.   exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
6.   an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
7.   a swindle, deception, or trick.

You wrote: "I really don't get the hype." You don't mean definition 1. Definitions 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are precisely what I wrote. So the only one left is 7, which I also assume you don't mean.

I am not a publicity agent for the band. I'm not making false claims about them. I'm merely saying I think they're a great BB/BW soundalike band. That's not hype. It's me sharing something I like on a message board. Perhaps you mean you don't like people praising a band you think is crappy. But that sounds more personal. So you say you don't like the hype. Because it's easier to say "hype" is misinformed or tasteless than a specific person's opinion.

Of course, I could pointlessly defensive. Maybe my opinion is misinformed or tasteless. It certainly has been before (and probably still is, given the double-disk ABBA collection I purchased over the weekend).

Jonas: There's a difference between hype -- defined as "promotional publicity of an extravagant or contrived kind" -- and someone saying they like a band on a message board. Sheesh.

Brian: That's not what people are saying. Or at least not the posts I've read.

The comments have all been along the lines of "they sound too much like the Beach Boys" or that every song is a rewrite of a Beach Boys tune. The second point is demonstrably false. The first point, as I have stated repeatedly, is kinda what this thread is about.

Again, they might be not to everyone's taste. That's okay. People might not like the songwriting. That's okay. You might think they just didn't make a good Beach Boys album. That's okay, too. But to say they sound too much like the BBs/BW on a thread that is explicitly about soundalikes (or inspired-bys) -- it befuddles me.

And frankly, it befuddles me even more that people want to spend so much energy tearing down a group that has pretty much the same aims as lots of folks in the BB/BW fan community -- to pay tribute to this wonderful music. Brian and his band understand that. Why don't we?

Or, and I guess this is the elephant in the room, has someone from the group made an ass of themselves online somewhere and I haven't heard about it? Is there some particularly annoying person who has been making their case (well, aside from me) that has pissed people off? I mean, why is it okay for Jeff Foskett to rewrite "I know there's an answer" as "Through My Window" and somehow when the Explorers Club does something similar it's a betrayal of music and taste?

Jonas -- What's the hype? I'm saying I like them. They're an indie band on an indie label and still work full-time jobs in North Carolina. It's not like we're talking about Britney Spears.

And as for the uniqueness -- this thread is, as I said, about the best BW/BB records not made by the BW/BB. It's not about random great new bands. Start your own thread for them.

(And frankly -- I'll take Darian Sahanaha and Brian Wilson's musical taste over yours. Just sayin.)

Chloe -- The remake is remarkable.

And a great story about Brian and the band. Although I sympathize with him a bit -- it might be odd to see yourself in a moon. :-)

I think Coyne's voice is somewhat charming. The band made it because the Lips have consistently written good songs and have good players (well, player -- Steven Drozd). Plus, they put on one of the best live shows I've ever seen.

[The Soft Bulletin]

Well, my point was that that a lot of the BB/BW legacy is built on on the borrowing of others' sounds (Spector, Four Freshmen, Berry) -- and sometimes outright theft. So that criteria alone shouldn't be used to discount an album. But your mileage may vary.

But getting back to the point -- this thread is titled "Best Beach Boys / BW album NOT by the BB / BW." Saying any group mentioned here is unoriginal is missing the point. This is all about unoriginality!

That being said, I have a couple of albums to add:

The Soft Bulletin (Flaming Lips) -- Did someone say autotune? An opulently produced album with a wounded heart -- very BW.
Symphonic Tribute to Brian Wilson (Gary Usher) -- Easy listening B-dub. But tasteful.

And I really need to check out that Animal Collective record.

Well, perhaps it's wrong for Brian to charge money for his Phil Spector rip-offs. Or for Jan Berry to charge for his Brian Wilson rip offs.

Or, perhaps it was wrong for Brian to claim sole writer credit for a song that was "Sweet Little 16" by Chuck Berry with different lyrics.

Rip-offs have a noble and notable place in the BB/BW canon. And let's see how Brian feels about the Explorers:

"Brian Wilson called me a few weeks ago," Brewer says. "He said how much he loves our group. ... If the guy who I'm faithfully ripping off likes what I do, I don't care what other people say."

How do we know BW didn't ask Asher? They were on good terms in the late 90s, at least. Asher doesn' strike me as the type to keep stuff like that around, either.

Sorry, the Explorers Club is brilliant. And it's patently ridiculous to say all the songs on their album rip off specific Beach Boys tunes, because it's just not true. There are definitely lifts here and there (and an outright rewrite of "I Do") but I find them delightful.

I can understand they're not to everyone's taste, but why the hate? And before you say it's because they're covering old ground, remember this is a board that obsesses over 40-year-old session tapes.

Someone could do a valuable work of cultural anthropology by tracing the roots and fates of the BB/BW message boards. It surprises me that so few of the originals are around anymore -- although the posters certainly are.

I started out on the old Cabinessence board in the mid-90s. I remember Billy Castillo and Eric Aniv. when they were mere pups! Then the halcyon days of the Smile Shop, then its morphing into this -- then its ressurection and demise.

And the fact that Diablo Cody was involved in it all ... strange times. Fun ones, at that.

Just stunning work. I love the drawing of Brian. And your work so well used on the cover of the Box o Clox CD.

[Caroline Now!]

This topic has been rolling around my brain for a while.

But the Beach Boys (and Brian) -- more than any other band I can think of -- have produced many albums that are not actually by them. These range from basic tribute albums to collections of original songs done in the style of the BB/BW. The power of BW's songs, arrangements and production techniques have deeply touched many musicians -- and not in an abstract way. They create albums that can only be described as BB albums not by the BBs.

Examples? Oh, I have examples.

Caroline Now! -- Ostensible tribute, but also a loving exhumation of unreleased and rare tracks. "Go Away Boy" and "Lines" are both killer.

In Reverse (Matthew Sweet) -- Not entirely in BW style, but much of it is. Several tracks feature Carol Kaye and a wall-of-sound production style. Album-closer "Thunderstorm" is a dead ringer for "Rio Grande."

A Tribute to Brian Wilson (Box o' Clox) -- A tribute album, but (like Caroline Now) almost entirely avoiding hits in favor of rarities. Producer-arranger-singer Cameron Michael Parkes plays loving little musical tricks throughout the album. Backing tracks can be a bit thin at times, but vocals are excellent.

Hawaii (The High Llamas) -- Basically an exercise in crossing the sonic landscape of "Smile" with lounge-Bacharach-exotica stylings. Less revered now than at the time of its release (it caught Bruce Johnston's ear), but Sean O'Hagan takes the style to a new place.

Wondermints, Bali, Mind If We Make Love to You (The Wondermints) -- These albums get in by default. They're less slavish than some, and Darian and co. have the songwriting chops and attitude. A somewhat slicker sound than you might expect if you only know them from their work with Brian.

Present Tense (Sagittarius) -- Most of this Gary Usher-Curt Boettcher album is light, folk-tinged pop. But "My World Fell Down" is a dead ringer for PS-Smile era BB.

Tributes and Rarities (Jeff Foskett) -- A cop out pick, but this is the only Foskett album I own. The man can sing like nobody's business. "Through My Window" and a few other tracks are pitch-perfect replications of the group's vocal and production sound.

Diamonds on the Beach (John Hunter Phillips) -- Perhaps too exact a tribute album, but his voice is consistently lovely.

The Warmth of the Sun -- A compilation of "inspired by" tunes, featuring Foskett, Alan Boyd, Sagittarius, etc. A lovely sampling, and one that bolsters this post -- people enjoy working "in the style of."

Making God Smile -- Another tribute, this one Christ-inspired. Some feel this is the best of the tributes, but it's never quite convinced me. Nice versions of some latter-day Brian tunes, though ("Your Imagination," "Love and Mercy," "Lay Down Burden.")

Freedom Wind (The Explorers Club) -- This album came out three months ago and is astonishing. All of the songs are originals, but this is perhaps the closest approximation of the "Today" Beach Boys sounds (both songwriting and production) that I have ever heard. Add in some Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Friends -- and you have this album. Shockingly good -- and the BW camp has taken notice. Foskett is thanked in the notes, and Darian and Nelson played with them at a recent show (they stayed at Darian's house). If you like this kind of thing -- BB albums not by the BBs -- get this album. It's perhaps the finest of all of these.

Stuff I haven't heard (but would like to)

Channel Surfing (Alan Boyd)
More Foskett
California Project (Papa Doo Run Run)
Long Promised Road: Songs of Dennis & Carl Wilson

Nope -- it's Michelle Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas.

Here are some random pictures of Brian -- because I have so little else to do. I note that Brian seems noticeably more upbeat with a lady around.

The point is era, not geography.