[Surf's Up]

Just for the record, Steve Desper is adamantly opposed to the release of the 5.1 remix of Surf's Up.  In his booklet, "Recording The Beach Boys," he discussed his opposition in a section titled "Surf's Up Under Siege."  These are his comments in their entirety:

< quote removed at request of the author >

[I have to suggest that if Brad was such a good friend then I'd hope he'd be contributing to this debate by now to support and defend your own statements.

You support for Brad in this thread, despite the general feeling against him from virtually everyone else (including myself) has been admirable and Id like to think the least he could do is publically support you and confirm what you have say about him.

I feel certain that if I contacted him, he'd do exactly that.  But my understanding of his situation is that he's the caregiver for a disabled wife, while dealing with his own chronic kidney problems.  I also suspect, based on what he said several years ago, that the continuing legal dispute related to his licensing and attempted release of the Hite Morgan tapes rages on (and incurs ever-greater lawyer bills).  To quote AGD (about another party mentioned in this thread), "he's got a lot on his plate and doesn't need this kind of frippery as well."

I'm just curious as to why Beach Head is defending Brad so much? I wouldn't go to these lengths unless the person was a good friend of mine or there was a serious error being made.

I think that's true on both counts.  I do consider Brad a good friend of mine.  I've known him as a fellow collector and fan for more than 30 years.  And I do think there's a serious error being made - in attributing all sorts of bootlegs, especially the first SMILE vinyl, to him.  My personal knowledge of the situation says that's just out-and-out false.

[BWPS]

Problem is, aside from your own admission "I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds", that your research stated that the meds in (possible) question were withdrawn in 2004/2005, which is some two or three years before you "last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems... My best guess is that it was some time in 2007, but it may have been a year earlier." (Please excuse the conflated quote). So you - and he - are implying that his heart problems were caused by a medication that had, in fact, been withdrawn at least 12 months earlier. The heart attack thing came to light some years before 2007... my recollection isn't exact, but it was definitely pre-BWPS.

Talk about trying to twist what I said!

I never implied that any heart problems were occurring in 2006-2007.  That's simply when I last talked to him.  At that time, he was dealing with chronic kidney stones, but my understanding was that had been going on for some time - my impression was at least several years.

You yourself indicate "the heart attack thing came to light some years before 2007," and I'm saying that fits with the time frame for the large-scale prescribing and subsequent withdrawal from the market of Vioxx.  If he was having kidney problems at that time, is there any reason they couldn't still have been present several years later (when I talked to him)?  Like I've said, I'm no doctor, but my impression is that serious kidney problems often are forever.

And this sad piece of news from last September:

The claims administrator (read: law firm) handling the claims for settlement has reviewed 48,507 claims - and rejected 40 percent of them!

Winning in a malpractice case is no sure thing.

One more piece of information (quoted from Wikipedia):

"FDA analysts estimated that Vioxx caused between 88,000 and 139,000 heart attacks, 30 to 40 percent of which were probably fatal, in the five years the drug was on the market."

fact is, he told several people (and I believe posted it on an MB) that it was the medication that caused his heart attack - and that's just not possible.

I'm not sure I would be so quick to state that as fact.  I'm certainly not a doctor, but these days anybody with Internet access can be an "armchair physician."

Googling information on kidney problems, especially kidney stones, reveals that one of the most common kinds of meds prescribed in connection with them are NSAIDs (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) -- for pain.  If the pain is severe enough, prescription-strength NSAIDs are given.  One category of prescription NSAIDs is COX-2 inhibitors.  Back in 2004-2005, a number of such meds were withdrawn from the market, either by the manufacturer or by order of the FDA, because of (quoting from the Wikipedia article on Valdecoxib) "concerns about possible increased risk of heart attack and stroke."  Some of the brand names of NSAIDs removed included Vioxx, Ceoxx and Bextra.

Now I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds, but the time frame seems about right.  As to a possible malpractice claim if he had been and then suffered a heart attack, the Wikipedia article on Rofecoxib (Vioxx) notes that more than 10,000 cases and 190 class actions have been filed against Merck (the manufacturer) "over adverse cardiovascular events associated with Rofecoxib and the adequacy of Merck's warnings." However, the history of litigation that's cited is mixed and not clear-cut.  Of the six cases that are specifically discussed in the article, plaintiffs have won only two, while Merck has successfully defended against four.  So, even when there's a goodly amount of evidence against the drug and its manufacturer, it's no sure thing that a malpractice claim will prevail.  For all we know, Brad's one of the claims and even part of a class action suit, and he may be in limbo, like so many apparently are, waiting to see what comes of it.

Couple, several ... hell, I don't remember precisely when I talked to him!  I don't keep a diary, and I've long since tossed out the long distance phone bills from that time.  My best guess is that it was some time in 2007, but it may have been a year earlier.  Too much has gone down in my life since.

Well, I obviously opened a can of worms!  My apologies to all.

For what it's worth, though, I'm certain that Brad had nothing to do with any of the SMILE bootlegs.  I think several people, one of whom I pointed AGD to (and I understand his reluctance to contact said person), can attest to the fact that they had to secure copies of various boots for Brad back in the day.  I certainly can; I know there were others.

The only boots I ever knew Brad had anything to do with -- and that was inadvertant -- were those terribly cheap "Bamboo" and "Brian Love You" records.  He was upfront that those were made (without his prior knowledge) from tapes he'd compiled for a circle of friends/fans/collectors.  (Compare that to the fact that Peter Reum was the one who actually pressed the legendary long-ago "Beach Boys Collectors Series" boots.)

On the other topic that AGD raised, I don't know all the details of Brad's medical problems, but I do know that he was quite ill for an extended period of time.  When I last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems, undergoing lithotripsy (sp?) literally every month, having had something like two dozen kidney stones in a year.  I would think that it's very possible that such a chronic condition could tax a body sufficiently to cause cardiac problems, but hey, I'm not a doctor, so what do I know?

Bra-uh..."Beach Head"

Hey, Fear.  You're a moderator, right?  Surely you can look up my profile and see my e-mail address (though a real ISP, not a gmail or hotmail account), and my real name is right there in it -- and it's not Brad Elliott.  So cut out the insinuations!  I'm just a long-time fan and collector, who's seen a lot of stuff go down over all the years I've been on the sidelines.

I find it very difficult to believe that Brad Elliott, who was at the top of the fan tree in 1983, couldn't lay hands on a copy of a new US boot.

Since boots weren't exactly the kind of thing stocked in every corner record store, they could be quite difficult to find at times, depending upon where you live.  Distribution could be quite spotty.  Something available on the East Coast might never show up on the West Coast, and vice-versa.  And the heartland of the country was always the worst!  Brad moved around quite a bit in the '80s and '90s, and there certainly were times when he had to rely on others to find him the latest stuff.  Not only me, but you could check with a certain athletic-type up in the Pacific Northwest to verify that.  (If you don't know who I mean, AGD, I'll gladly PM you the name.)

Yes, this time you stated it's your opinion.  In the past, you haven't been so guarded, instead stating as fact that Brad was involved in putting out the first SMILE boot.

As for why I'm so convinced he wasn't ... When that boot came out, he was unable to find a copy after hearing about it through the fan grapevine.  I went out and bought and shipped 2 copies to him, as I could find them easily at a local shop.  Why would he need somebody to do that if he was the guy who made them?

He declined to comment. I think I'm entitled to form an opinion from that.

Then be upfront and indicate that it's simply you're opinion, not fact.  He didn't say he did it.  There could have been lots of reasons that he didn't respond.  I wasn't there, so I don't know.  But neither were you in his head at the time to know what he was thinking.

Brad is not MIA -  there's a contact address on the Surf's Up site, one page of which was updated just over a year ago.

Well, I'm sure Mark Plummer is alive and well somewhere, too.  For all I know, he has a webpage out there as well.  But both of them are MIA from fan circles in general and this message board in particular.

Mark Plummer (who is, perhaps conveniently, MIA and thus unable to give us his side of the matter).

As is Brad.  Which is my point.  You don't know anything for certain about the source of that first SMILE boot, so why disseminate innuendo?  You're just a second- or third-hand (or worse) source.  I've heard you rail against such "second hand" information in regard to BB history; why is it acceptable when it comes to something else?

Unless you find it acceptable to take money and never offer to give it back when things don't work out.

Definitely not saying I do.  But I don't think those mistakes should completely undercut all that he did that was of value.  And it certainly shouldn't leave him being blamed for things he wasn't responsible for.  (I mean, I've seen him tagged as being responsible for the Sea Of Tunes releases, when he never even came close to having that kind of access to the BB's tape vault!)

FYI, when I last talked with him (admittedly, a couple of years ago), Brad was sporadically sending out reimbursements as he was able.  He got saddled with over $40,000 in legal expenses when Bruce Morgan and Original Sound sold him a bill of goods when he licensed the Hite Morgan tapes for release and then got him sucked into The Beach Boys' lawsuit against them!  At the time I talked with him, the damn case was still bouncing around the court system and still racking up lawyers' fees for him!

As to why he's not heard from, his wife was diagnosed with a brain tumor about six years ago.  After two unsuccessful brain surgeries and extensive radiation treatments, she's disabled, and he's responsible for caring for her.  Sadly, I don't think it leaves him much time for anything else.

Hmmm ...  No "constant championing" from this corner that I know of.  I think I've said something about a very similar accusation against Brad on one other occasion.  Other complaints about him, I've said nothing.

As I said, I've known Brad for many years, and still consider him a friend.  I just find it ironic that so many who have benefited so much from his work (look at the credits on your own Bellagio website, AGD) are so quick to condemn him while taking Peter's word for something that none of them know anything first-hand about.  I mean, Peter's the one who deliberately sent somebody (whether you believe it was Brad or know it was Mark Plummer) a faked BB track.  That's somebody whose word we're supposed to accept as gospel?

Furthermore, Brad's condemned because he allegedly was involved with the first SMILE bootlegs (which he, in fact, wasn't), but we're okay with Peter's having done the original Beach Boys Collectors Series of bootlegs -- including ripping off Frank Holmes by doing the first reprints of the SMILE cover?  25 years later, when Brad marketed the remaining copies for Peter's wife, he sought and obtained Frank's permission and paid him a cut of the proceeds.  Did Frank make anything off the many copies Peter sold?  I don't think so!  So how hypocritcal are we being?

This constant villification of Brad Elliott is just obscene!

There's no other way to put this ... Peter lies.  I've known both Brad and Peter for many years, and they had a falling out way back when.  Since then, Peter's gone out of his way to paint Brad in the worst possible light.

The truth is that Brad was the go-between that landed Peter the biggest chunk of those early SMILE tapes (specifically, the ones that were described in Byron Preiss's book).  There was no reason for Brad to get SMILE tapes from Peter, as he already had them (having gotten Peter his copies).

The guy that Peter set up with the faked "Air" was Mark Plummer, who was a big Beach Boys and Jan & Dean fan back then, but hasn't been heard from in ages.  Any leak that led to the first SMILE bootlegs came from that direction, not Brad.  In fact, if anybody wants to go back and research the issue in old issues of the "Add Some Music" fanzine, they'll find it was Brad who broke the story that "Air" on that first SMILE bootleg was a fake.  That doesn't sound like something you'd do if you were the one who faked it.

[Mrs. O'Leary's Fire]

In his legendary article, "Goodbye Surfing, Hello God," Jules Siegel quoted Brian as saying, "Yeah, I'm going to call this Mrs. O'Leary's Fire and I think it might just scare a whole lot of people."

Somebody posted a link over on Brian's message board.  It's to an address at AlJardine.com.  Put in in your browser and it starts a download.  Once downloaded, though, the file has no tag, so your computer won't know what to do with it.  Rename it with a ".zip" tag, then you can extract the mp3's.

Sometimes it's a small world!  I was quite surprised to stumble across this while reading up on one of my other interests ...

http://freakbits.com/carol-kaye-misunderstands-torrentfreak-0221

Carol's at it again!

IIRC when Carl left the band in '81 Ed Carter moved to lead guitar and Joe Knott played bass.

Ernie Knapp, not Joe Knott.  (Knott was the cowriter of "Add Some Music To Your Day.")

Heres a shot from a Mike Solo tour 1978 at a Marietta softball field in 1978
There is Ed Carter, and some shots I got feature Charles Lloyd!

It's likely that was a Celebration peformance, as the bassist on the right is Doc Robinson, whose only association with Mike was in that short-lived group.  Lloyd also was part of the group.

Now aware that there was more than one band known as The Retros, here are links to the places you can hear Jeff's music:

http://theretros.tripod.com/sounds.html
http://www.myspace.com/theretros

Very sad.

Is there an online obituary anywhere?  I only knew Jeff through BB fandom and the recordings he did with his band, The Retros (who, to the best of my knowledge, never got a CD out -- he always said it was just around the corner).  I'm sure there's lots about him I didn't know.  If I recall correctly, he worked in the aerospace industry.

Some of The Retros' tracks can be found online (do a Google search).  If you've never heard them, they're well worth a listen!

I don't know where to put this.  The moderators may decide it belongs in a different forum.  If it does, I'll leave it to them to move it.

I've heard through the grapevine that Jeffrey Glenn (JeffRetro here on the SS board) has passed away, possibly from heart problems.  However, I haven't been able to find confirmation anywhere as to the authenticity of that news, much less more detailed information.  Does anybody know anything?

I've known Jeff on the various BB boards for more than a decade now and, at one point about 8 years ago, even corresponded with him off-board.  He was a great and dedicated collector of BB information.  If he really is gone, it's a great loss to the Beach Boys collectors world!