Mr. Desper:

I am sure this has been asked on another thread, but I ead that Brian's home studio was taken out in early 1972 and was used to create the new Brother Studios in Santa Monica.  Was that around the time ou left the Beach Boys' employ?  I know that early 1972 was a period of change with the group with a new deal signed with Warner Bros., Bruce left, Blondie and Ricky joining and Jack Rieley planning their European travels for the summer.

It seems with all you did for them in the four years you worked for them, to leave is a little surprising.  Was it your decision, the band's, was it mutual consent.  Was it because you had another opportunity.  I know you have worked for Frank Zappa, but for how long.  Have you helped out or at least consult on the many reissues (and reissues of reissues) that have come out.

Every time I listen to the Beach Boys music that was released between 1968 and 1971, I thank you.  You as much as anyone helped them maximize their potential in those key years.  It's a shame that there wasn't the same amount of commercial (at least domestically) success.

Thank you for your work and taking the time to participate on this board.  As the group might say "Jai guru deva om"

Dear Mr. Desper:

I love the Friends mixes.  Anyone says that Brian was musically spent after the Smile situation is clearly wrong.  I makes me appreciate the album even more and now know why Brian sometimes names it as his favorite Beach Boys lp.

I live in Monterey, and recently saw a friend's parents 8 mm print of the Beach Boys performing at the Big Sur Folk Festival in 1970.  What stuck me, was that on the introduction to "Cottonfields,"  Mike puts down Capitol Records for not promoting the single (Number One in the Western World..except here).

I was wondering if the contractual situations in anyway helped or hindered their creativity at the time.  For example, did the idea of leaving Capitol get their creative juices going to prove Capitol was wrong in the way they were handled by the label post-"Pet Sounds?"  Was it ever at all disheartening when, for example, "Add Some Music To Your Day" didn't sell as well as hoped, or that "Sunflower" was presented, not accepted, and the group had to rework the album?  Or was the group was so professional and talented, that the creativity was  not harmed but the business matters?

I also found it surprising that Mike felt annoyed by "Cottonfields" failure in the US since the group had already been apart of the Warner/Reprise label for almost a year by that point and the single was released by Capitol.

Thank you for your response and incredible insights.

bluerincon

Mr. Desper:

Thank you for the wonderful and insightful answer. (Also the great philosophical message.)  It may be apples and oranges, and they all have their unique situations, but I have always thought and outdoor set up for concerts had more complications that an indoor setting, based on the natural elements (wind, humidity, the direction of the concert).  But when the Beach Boys were touring during you time with them, there was a great change over in auditoriums.  Rock concerts were being played in buildings that were many decades old and not prepared of the type of sonic power a rock and roll could produce.  Was it always  to create a sonic balance that would be excellent while, at the same time, understanding the architecture where the concert was performed?  It seemed rare that in the mid-1960s that most groups had their own sound systems.

Again, thank you.

Dear Mr. Desper:

Was there ever a time when you felt you achieved the perfect "sound."  I mean, was a studio or concert event balanced and engineered so correctly or perfectly in your mind that you thought "that's it, I have made perfection."  Or is there an element that when something is achieved, is it excellent but not totally perfect.  Just wondering if audio technicians are as much perfectionists  as the artists themselves.

Also, sorry to ask again, but I was wondering if you helped out on the overdubs for the Jan & Dean version of "Vegetables."

Again, I appreciate all your time on this board and thank you.

Bluerincon1

Mr. Desper:

Sorry for asking these questions, but I have been studying your thread (or the one named after you) and I am revisiting Spring/American Spring with a question.

I believe that Dean Torrance took the 1967 the Laughing Gravy version of "Vegetables," and had Brian and (American) Spring overdub vocals onto the existing track.  I believe that that version was released by United Artists Records in 1972 as a Jan And Dean single on placed on their Anthology album .  Since the overdubbing sessions parallels with the recording of the Spring album, did you supervise the overdubbing session? 

I like it, but it is still no match for the Beach Boys recording.

Thank you,
bluerincon1

Mr. Desper:

A million thank yous for the response.  I wish more people knew of what you did.  I mean your name should be spoken on the same level as a Larry Levine, Chuck Britz, Bruce Botnick.  You also seem to be the American counterpart to Geoff Emerick:  someone who helped developed the sound that made the group sound stunning.

I also love the notes on Surf's Up.  When I got some basic knowledge of engineering, I got the joke.  I know you left the group in 1972,  but did you do some of the engineering on Carl & The Passions.  If this has been covered please don't take the time to answer again.  Again my apologies for asking previous answered questions.  This board is like a series of endless caves that one can get lost it in.

Thank you and have a wonderful holiday time.

Dear Mr. Desper:

My sincere and deepest apologies for my assumption.  There are other threads that flat out say that was your position with the group.  I guess it goes back to my point awhile ago that inaccuracies can become truth by shear repetition.  I assumed something without checking and fell into the same trap I was asking about.

Being a concert engineer, is it true that the group's sound system was used at Monterey Pop?  I am not sure if this topic has been touched on.  Also, did you help with the group's concert sound at the Big Sur Festival in 1970.  I have heard from someone at UMG that A&M, who recorded the festival for Ode Records, has a very good sounding recording of both afternoon and evening sets.  Being an respected and innovative sound engineer, I was wondering if you were consulted with.  

Finally, I just listened to both Live In London and the In Concert albums.  What a great mix.  So crisp and clear, it is like you are there at the concert.  In Concert's mix seems distant for lack of a better term.  It's not as sharp and the audience sounds far away.  Your mix makes someone understand the excitement of a Beach Boys concert.  Again thank you.

Mr. Desper:

I just re-read the portions of the book you mentioned.  You are right as I misinterpreted or misread what you wrote.  It seems that they were just reels.

In regards to recording, I was basing my assumptions on the Keith Badham book: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band, on Stage and in the Studio.  So I am wondering if there AFM forms filled out while recording at Brian's home?  That could explain the gap in unknown recording dates. 

BTW: Do you know why "Fallin' In Love" or "Lady" was remixed for the Love Songs compilation and box set.  The original you use is fantastic.  I would love to eventually a full stereo spread of the song in its original form.

Also, am I correct to assume you were hired by The Beach Boys, but did you first start out as Jim Lockhart's second engineer in 1967 with the intention of becoming chief engineer and mixer when Mr. Lockhart left or returned to Wally Heider?

Again thanks for the knowledge you provide.

Also the Philadelphia concert is excellent.  The band is in top form.  Bruce really doesn't get the credit he deserves in keeping the group together in the 1979-1981 period.

To All:

In regards to Smile, the music was very negative to Brian.  For many years it brought up bad memories and did not want to have anything with it (apart from the group singing Heroes And Villains).

In regards to 1969, here is my theory.  The group in 1969 was at a crossroads.  They sued Capitol that spring, but contractually owned them an album.  It was similar to Jimi Hendrix.  Jimi was sued to deliver an album to Ed Chalpin because Mr. Chalpin proved he had Jimi under contract before he signed with Chas Chandler im 1966.  The lawsuit was settled in 1968 with Chalpin getting the rights to the follow-up to "Electric Ladyland" (Chalpin turned around and sold the rights to Capitol).  

This placed Jimi in a difficult situation.  He didn't want to hand over new material to a rival company (and possibly damage his relationship with Warner/Reprise), and he didn't want to hand over a live album of previous released material, since he didn't want Chalpin to benefit from any material he recorded after Jimi left him.  It took him a year to finally deliver Capitol an album: live but with totally new material (with  two of the songs by Buddy Miles).  That's why the material from this album has never been on any of Jimi's compilations.    Other material from the concerts has but not from this album.

So in 1969, the Beach Boys slowed down their recording, suing Capitol and looking for a new label.  It was a similar situation:  do you give new material to a label (Capitol) that you are at odds with, having felt they haven't promoted you properly the last few years, and would probably not promote your new album since they have not vested interest.  It was only after the group signed with Warner and was on its way producing their first album, that attention was turned to Capitol.  At some point in early 1970 (from a Beach Boys article I read), Carl mixed the Live In London album and delivered it to Capitol.  Capitol accepted the album since it had live versions of hit songs that the label released, and would probably be a better seller than a new studio album.  Of course, Capitol chose not to release it for another 6 and half years, while mother company EMI, released it in other territories over the next 2 years.  This, combined with Capitol's non-promotion of "Cottonfields" in the Spring of 1970, shows Capitol's lack of interest.

I do not think there was ever a "Last Capitol Album" ("Reverberation"/"The Fading Rock Group Revival").   I think there were songs put to tape in early 1969, but after "Break Away" was delivered and the lawsuit was started, the recording stopping.  (Something similar happened when the group renegotiated with Capitol in 1967 and when their deal with Warner/Reprise ended in late 1971).     Of course, being proficient as the six members were, there was some recording done ("Cottonfields" and "Slip On Through" were put on tape that summer).  I tend to believe that the "Last Capitol Album"  was a reel of songs that could be used for an album, but it was not an album.  

I tend to think the re-recorded "Cottonfields" was not necessarily recorded to be a single, but it was recorded to see if Al's version/arrangement  of the song was better or truer than Brian's from 20/20.  I think that by 1970, when hadn't had any material released in nine months, that "Cottonfields" (remember: not a new song, but a remake) was given to EMI to release, and Capitol just went along with it.

That is what I think about the so-called "Landlocked" album.  First, why would Warner release an album of songs that it had already rejected half of?  Also the release timetable was too short.  If the album was released, say six-seven months later, in February-March of 1971, it wouldn't make sense.  Sunflower's release in foreign markets occurred in November of 1970, so to have only 3-4 months to promote Sunflower while getting the second album ready seems ludicrous.  It wasn't 1965  anymore.

Mr. Desper your book is fantastic!  I love the process of creativity and your time with them shows how open and responsive the band was to producing innovating sounds.  It also seems that the reel known as "Landlocked" was also presented to Warner Bros. on June 1, 1970 as the second submission of Sunflower.  I think when people bring up the album title of "Add Some Music"  it is based on a mock up cover that the Warner's art department created.  If it were a final cover, both the front and back would have been produced, not just a front cover.  Dave Dexter at Capitol used to do this.  One of his famous mock ups was for a Beatles "Live At The Hollywood Bowl" cover prepared for a 1965 release.  There was no way of knowing when and if it would be released, but was done to have ready in case the album did go into production.

Again Mr. Desper, thank you for all you have done.  Of course I could be wrong with everything.  You were there and know.  My knowledge are from books, interviews, and articles that may not be totally right.  It especially shows how Carl was the the group's light and conscience.  It's already been noted how he helped put together Stack-O-Tracks and Live In London, but his influence is what help make Sunflower and Surf's Up the cherish albums they are.  My one regret is that before adding "Cottonfields" onto the foreign release of Sunflower, EMI didn't have you remix it to sound similar to the rest of the album.  It sounds very out of place.

This is just my opinion, but of course I could be wrong.

 

FYI - "Kokomo" was also the b-side to "Somewhere Near Japan" in January 1990.

Mr. Desper:

I cannot find the words to describe what I just read.  That's  no hyperbole either.  I learned more in a few paragraphs than about the band than most books or articles I have read on the group.  What you said makes perfect sense.  TV did the same thing.  How many classic shows from the 50's are lost because the tapes were erased and used again.  It was cheaper to do.  I read a Billboard article that discuss this practice was used my most major labels until the early 80's.  If something wasn't used it was junked to save money and space.

I guess with 50 years of interviews where songs (at that time) were being concurring recorded but unfinished, that there were songs announced, but unfinished.  I think fans think there is some holy grail of unreleased songs somewhere that are being prevented from being released by group dynamics.

It reminds me of Martin Lewis, who came up with fake Beatle titles like "Pink Litmus Paper Shirt" and "Colliding Circles" to pad out an article on Beatle songs as a goof and to pad out an article he was writing.  But the goof because was accepted as real and, as he says, fans to this day still don't believe his story.

Of course, it is well known that the group would use a discarded melody from one song and include it in another ("I Just Got My Pay" - "Marcella") even recycling elements of a melody ("Thinkin 'Bout You Baby" - "Darlin'" - "Break Away").

The only artist who I can think of that kept everything was Mr. Zappa (excluding possibly his MGM years).  I sure you have a ton of stories about him and the Mothers also.

Again thank you and with the warmest regards,
bluerincon1

 That makes since that Wally Heider was used.  I read somewhere that group did make a deal with Wally Heider in late 1967/early 1968 to make Wally Heider's their semi-official recording studios.

 
I think Still Cruisin' isn't bad, but rushed.  They wanted something out to keep the "Kokomo" ball rolling and with "Still Cruisin'" being used in Lethal Weapon 2, they wanted to strike while the iron was hot.  If they wanted to use more recent movie songs, these were also available:

"Happy Endings" from The Telephone (a nice song, but a little slow - maybe they chose not to use it since it didn;t flow with the rest of the songs)

"Don't Worry Baby from Tequila Sunrise (likewise with the Everly Brothers)

I think they just wanted some product out.

I recently purchased a "Still Cruisin" CD-single with "Lady Liberty"  and the 12-inch mix of "Rock 'N' Roll To The Rescue." If you take the seven new Still Cruisin' songs with the 3 new songs from "Made In The USA" you have a pretty decent 10 track album (11 with "Don't Worry..." from Tequila Sunrise).  It's much more listenable than 1985's Beach Boys record, and available on CD.

Maybe the group doesn't think of it as a new album, but as a compilation record with some new songs to entice fans to buy it.   

Mr. Desper:

 I read your comments on whether Mike Love actually said to Brain " Don't ---- with the formula" and I have a similar question.

 Many groups have articles or books that talk of unreleased material.  For years, fans have read about unreleased songs that are in the Beach Boys archives.  Some have been posted on youtube, but in your opinion, does the group have a large catalog music of unreleased music.

 Personally, I am not a huge fan of what people think is unreleased music, just for the simple fact (that for the most part) if it was good it would have been released.  Excusing tracks that have been lost, and later found, there are exceptions ("Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" "It's A New Day" , "We Got Love" songs from the 15 Big Ones and Adult/Child sessions) that group politics are involved. but for the most part, many of the unreleased songs I have heard seem to be songs that aren't finished, or broke down in recording, run throughs, weren't that good, or have some type of negative connotation (like Brian's long time view on the "Smile" material).

I guess I am asking since the Beatles "Anthology"  had many newly created outtakes mixed from different, incomplete takes (or "outfakes" as I have read) and at the archival releases by the group ("Endless Harmony"  "Hawthorne, CA"  "Made In California") seem to have more alternate mixes of released songs or live versions, rather than new songs.  I was wondering if the same kind of innuendo that credits Mike with saying something he may or may not have said, similarly applies to this.  Do you think there is a "holy grail" of many unreleased songs or that there are some unreleased songs with others being more incomplete or unfinished.

Thanks you your time reading this.  I really do appreciate your insights.

Being the engineer from an era in the group's history were it's believed there is much unreleased material, what do you think is the real story?

Mr. Desper and to all:

Not knowing anything about sessions at all (unless the AFM forms can be found), I would think they recorded at Gold Star.  My reasoning is that Brian idolized Phil Spector and respected the job Larry Levine did, and since he thought of the Honeys as his Ronettes, it would make sense to try to create a similar sound at the same studios.

Is information is great!  It seems, then, that the Spring project was really motivated by the Rovell sisters with Brian and David (and of course Stephen) happily going along.

I used to visit a record store in Santa Barbara - American Pie Records - and its owner, Dennis Hartman (or "Dr. D") turned me on to the Spring album.  He showed me several imported albums and Picture Sleeve covers  from Europe with the American Spring name.  Each had a different cover.  They can be seen on discogs.com.   Rhino released it (they had also re-released the Honeys tracks) in 1988. The See For Miles version came out a year later.  I always thought Rhino's re-figured track line-up had a better flow.  It's always an interesting time (post "Surf's Up" / pre "Carl & The Passions") with eight possible Beach Boys (Al, Bruce, Carl, Mike, Brian, Dennis, Blondie, and Ricky) for a brief time.  Yet, with those members (with the exception of Bruce who left) only 8 tracks released on "So Tough."

BTW: Mr. Desper did you engineer the Honeys 1969 single " Tonight You Belong To Me"/"Goodnight My Love."  It has a wonderful, full sound.

Again thanks for all the help and knowledge.  I haven't learn some much since I read David Leaf's book back in the 80's.

Warmest Regards,
bluerincon1

Why did Spring sign with UA?  With Brother Records active, wouldn't it have be easier to release the album through them?  I am sure Mo Ostin and the executives at Warner Bros. may not have been happy to see Brian Wilson productions being release by a rival company.

Mr. Desper thank you for your awesome insights.  The Spring album has been one of my favorites since I bought it at my local Music Plus back in 1988.  In fact, I think Rhino's line-up is actually better than the original United Artists'.  I do have a couple question if you (or anyone) can answer.

Why did Spring sign with UA?  With Brother Records active, wouldn't it have be easier to release the album through them?  I am sure Mo Ostin and the executives at Warner Bros. to see Brian Wilson productions being release by another company.

How involved was David Sandler?  Conflicting reports say his role was more akin to an Associate Producer (doing most of the work after Brian did the basic tracks), a 50-50 producer, to actually being the main force behind the production.   I think you may have left the group by this time, but did you do any work on the Iowa songs (Shyin' Away, Fallin' In Love, Snowflakes)?

Finally, what was the group's reaction to Brian working with Spring and not them?  A few years later, the group prevented Brian from producing with Equinox after they found out he signed a deal with them, so it is interesting to see Brian not only produce Spring but use an existing track like "Good Time"?

Lastly, I get get to your videos and it frustrates me!   I have use several browser and have copy and pasted all different combinations.  Is there a secret?  Do I need to go to another site for the password?  The copying and pasting or typing is not working.

Thank you for all you have done to make my life a little better when I listen to my favorite era of Beach Boys' music and I look forward to reading more of your insights.

Regards

Bluerincon1

-"Throwing off all the shackles that are binding me down"

I am wondering, why did Capitol/EMI choose to release the Brother/Reprise 12-track edition on vinyl instead of it own original 13-track international version.  I know that since both the single mix of "Cottonfields" and "Sunflower" were both issued by EMI, so "Cottonfields" was placed on the international edition to boost sales.  I think with it's addition, it makes for a stronger album.  I believe it does fit on the album.  It was recorded during the "Sunflower" era in August of 1969 and was placed on the reel titled "Last Capitol Album" with other tracks that wound up on "Sunflower."  I know it may not be what the Beach Boys wanted, but Paul McCartney didn't place "Helen Wheels" on "Band On The Run."  That was a Capitol decision.  However, the 25th anniversary edition (released worldwide) does include "Helen Wheels" so I'm guessing he has accepted the extra track on the album.

I am wondering, why did Capitol/EMI choose to release the Brother/Reprise 12-track edition on vinyl instead of it own original 13-track international version.  I know that since both the single mix of "Cottonfields" and "Sunflower" were both issued by EMI, so "Cottonfields" was placed on the international edition to boost sales.  I think with it's addition, it makes for a stronger album.  I believe it does fit on the album.  It was recorded during the "Sunflower" era in August of 1969 and was placed on the reel titled "Last Capitol Album" with other tracks that wound up on "Sunflower."  I know it may not be what the Beach Boys wanted, but Paul McCartney didn't place "Helen Wheels" on "Band On The Run."  That was a Capitol decision.  However, the 25th anniversary edition (released worldwide) does include "Helen Wheels" so I'm guessing he has accepted the extra track on the album.
 
Any thoughts?

Dear Mr. Desper:

I hope you are feeling well.  I must say your book is an excellent read.  I'm truly sorry to ask, but I've checked on the message boards and couldn't find thiese answers:

I know around late 1971/early 1972 you left the Beach Boys' employment.  I have read that it was because you were not a follower of TM?  Is that true.

Obviously, at the time you left, the group was working on "Carl & The Passions - So Tough."  Were you there through the completion of the basic tracking?

Finally, being a Zappa fan, I was wondering how he hired you and how long you worked for him?


Thank you for your time.