This is the end-game, isn't it?  It's going to get worse before it gets better.

If you mean the band…. Yeah. Looks like tit-for-tat for the next few years.

If you mean the board… nah. Billy will finally get sick of it and close the thread.

Haha...that may be...but no, I mean, this is the end-game for the soap opera, as the world turns, and the characters are making their final moves.  We'll be here in one way or another debating for the end of time.  The players are staking their claims and making their adjustments. 

This is the end-game, isn't it?  It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Here is Til I Die

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15mAbrGahTY

Would be very interested to see/hear Til I Die.  Anyone able to locate a video of this?

I always assumed it was packaged with Pet Sounds because it would have needed a mess of help to stand alone.

Ahem.  I'll show myself out now.

smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20088.0.html

Thank you!

I've never heard that a lead was recorded (and maybe lost/unheard) for Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long.  Can anyone comment further on this?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

Every SMiLE fanatic, and possibly even every Beach Boy fan period, has asked this question at some point. Realistically it never would have happened. Not the way things had already played out. Ignoring his illness and insecurities, the relative "failure" of Pet Sounds and the Caroline No single probably showed Brian that to leave the band would be a commercial mistake. VDP never would have ousted a Beach Boy. He saw them as a family unit and felt guilty for driving a wedge between them with his work. He never would have turned them against each other willingly, and probably would have bowed out on principle if Brian told him he was choosing SMiLE over his cousin. So, it's a nice thought, but realistically it never would have happened, not either scenario you list. And again, it was primarily Brian who called the shots and decided not to go through with it. Mike and the Boys criticisms almost certainly influenced his decision, but ultimately he was the one who lost track of the big picture, lost faith in his creation, and decided to go in a different direction with it. End of story.

Thank you for your post.  What you say makes a ton of sense.  Where I would dare to disagree is "End of story."

haha, fair enough. Not trying to silence dissent or anything, just emphasize how next-to-impossible it would have been for Mike to be kicked out over this, and even if he was it wouldnt make a difference in terms of SMiLE's release. For what its worth, I still think it would have been better off if he DID get kicked out around 68 or 69. By then he had written all he songs worth a damn, and all he was good for from then on was stirring up drama and pushing the band in the wrong direction. But I think the only chance for that to happen is the scenario someone else laid out where Jack Riely fires him.

We are the same page, my fren.

As a wise friend once informed me when I posited this same question: it's a job.

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

Every SMiLE fanatic, and possibly even every Beach Boy fan period, has asked this question at some point. Realistically it never would have happened. Not the way things had already played out. Ignoring his illness and insecurities, the relative "failure" of Pet Sounds and the Caroline No single probably showed Brian that to leave the band would be a commercial mistake. VDP never would have ousted a Beach Boy. He saw them as a family unit and felt guilty for driving a wedge between them with his work. He never would have turned them against each other willingly, and probably would have bowed out on principle if Brian told him he was choosing SMiLE over his cousin. So, it's a nice thought, but realistically it never would have happened, not either scenario you list. And again, it was primarily Brian who called the shots and decided not to go through with it. Mike and the Boys criticisms almost certainly influenced his decision, but ultimately he was the one who lost track of the big picture, lost faith in his creation, and decided to go in a different direction with it. End of story.

Thank you for your post.  What you say makes a ton of sense.  Where I would dare to disagree is "End of story."

If this thread were taken for just its title, it might have been interesting - not that this thread isn't interesting - but interesting in a different way.  But given the conceit of the original post, it has devolved in a way one might expect.  Perhaps that was the intention - a troll thread to piss off some "brianistas." 

Though recently I saw the OP, with all due respect to Andrew, call himself a Brianista, so who knows?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

What might have happened if songs like Til I Die weren't considered "bummers" and were supported?

There are all kinds of speculative paths that are worth thinking about.  The *absolute worst* thing anyone might try to do at this point in time is shut down dialog and claim history as closed on any of these topics.

Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long is not about a woman but about SMiLE.  Same goes for Still I Dream of It and It's Over Now.

Great find!  Thanks for this.

Personally, I can not listen to these albums.  More power to anyone who can.

I am really curious about the 1980 version of Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long that was slated for KTSA.  I know it was the vintage track with additional instruments added.  Has this ever surfaced?

I would really like to know more about this.

@Wirestone, spot on.

Mike being a dominant force in his relationship with Brian seems accurate enough.

Can't Wait Too Long. 

I've listened to every fragment, track, bit and piece I can find of this gem.  I listened to it on loop for a 16 hour drive once.  Not kidding.  Was never tired of it.

This is great!  Thanks so much for sharing.

This is a topic I've obsessed over quite a bit and for the longest time it was difficult for me to listen to BW post 75-76 without getting really sad.  The thing that strikes me is not so much the scratchiness or gruffness but rather it begins to sound as if he is singing with his tongue immobilized.  To my ears I can hear it even as early as '75 but it doesn't really become very obvious until the mid '80s.  One of the phrases that really sticks out to me is BW's singing of "sunnydown snuff I'm alright" on BWPS.  It sounds like he does not have full articulation of his tongue.

My take on it, and certainly many others have already said this and thought it long before I did (I think it is even on his wiki), is that he developed tardive dyskinesia from psychotropic medications - made much worse with Landy's mobile pharmacy.  Recreational drugs, cigs, alcohol, self-sabotage or whatever contributed to hurting other qualities of his voice but none nearly as destructive and permanent to his overall tone and style.

Long time reader of the site.  Thanks for letting me post here.