This feels like one era of pop music and pop culture ending. Some of my best memories in life are when I found Pet Sounds and Smile nearly 25 years ago and my life was never the same after. Even though Brian’s greatest gifts to music were given nearly 60 years ago his presence nevertheless was a constant reminder that we live in the era of that masterful creativity through his presence. Now it has come an end. Brian’s passing is sad but of course not surprising considering his age.
 
Greetings to everyone and let’s keep the flame alive. 

Few first thoughts about the docu.

Definitely a well made documentary, professional, a big improvement on the last Brian docu Long promised road. No complaints in quality department from me except the weird pitch problems with some of the interview voices; Brian sounded weird in atleast one clip. I’m especially glad the irrelevant celebrity talking heads were kept to a minimum. This too a big improvement from the typical BB docus. No head of Elton John appearing out nowhere to tell ”Brian is a genius!”

The obvious problem with the docu is the running time is too short to tell even the first half of the story in a comprehensive way – this is what explains the fact that the docu seems to cut short; there simply is no other way to do it in under 2 hours but to cut it short and of course the golden years of the 60’s need to have more time in a docu than the 70’s for example. This should have been a multiple part series. When you have an hour and 50 minutes you have to make tought decisons what to cut. All of us (or atleast most of us) here would like to watch a documentary where Brian explains for three hours what the ”cork” in ’Til I die really was about but it is not realistic to expect this to happen in a mainstream docu, and as sad as it is much stuff that should have been there has to be cut.

I think this was a good docu in that it got me thinking once again about the band. What this documentary especially reminded me is how the story of the Beach Boys is essentially a story of wasted potential. As sad as that is it is what it is. And the failure of the Smile project is the quintessential moment of this story of wasted potential. I understand this is a useless thing to say and nobody on this board of all people needs to be reminded of this but they should have finished it and gone where ever that road would have taken them. Loosing the best years of Dennis and Carl to drugs also a big part of the story of wasted potential...

I don’t agree why Mike gets so much criticism for how he has been should we say bitter, angry and frustrated about how he got screwed concerning the songwriting credits and royalties; if I had written songs with Brian Wilson including some genuine pop music classics and his dad had screwed me over about it, to put it mildly I would sue anyone anywhere to get right this wrong righted. This is not reason to criticise Mike. Mike like everyone has an ego, we hc fans now this, but some of it is perfectly understandable. He's probably traumatized about it which is why he brings it up so often. I understand maybe this topic would not be a very necessary thing in a docu like this especially since the credits have been corrected since and his part in creating songs was clearly represented. However, I think the reason why the director decided to include this in the docu is that he wanted to underline the unhealthy character of Murry.

The one plain thing this documentary told us about the reasons for the failure of Smile is that it was down to something happening in Brian’s life that made his professional life as the leader of the group unravel. Was it just the drugs and the mental problems those created? Was he literally so out of his mind on drugs he wasn’t able to literally physically and then mentally to actually do all the work required? This is what I was asking myself while watching. Also, it seems how what Mike has said in years past that in the end it was Brian’s choice alone to abandon the project probably is an accurate summary after all. All of us here know that there is a alot more to the story regarding details – though we dont have the complete picture either – but in the end I guess it really was just Brian’s decision. This brings the question that I cant answer; what happened to him?

I sometimes wonder what the boys privately talk about Smile to people they trust; it is obvious we have never gotten all the facts of what happened which is sad because that time is the part of the band that in many ways defined much of the story of the band. The Beautiful dreamer docu back in the day was worthless in explaining any of this and was just a generic promo piece. No books have really given us much except the official version and/or the hazy legend. I wish some serious A-level historian would tackle this subject and write a comprehensive history of the Smile project with new research in academic quality standard including doing multiple interviews again and again with those who were there and are still around to tell the story. And I am talking about serious academic level interviews to get every snippet of possible info to reveal all relevant details.

In general about the documentary I think Mike tearing up at the end was a symbolic detail that shows there is so much more to the story of the band and unfortunately you cannot fit much of that into a single documentary. Considering how old the members are and Brian is no longer capable of telling that story there will likely be much questions left unanswered (especially reagrding Smile).

Oh well, I think it was a good thought provoking documentary.

Few more comments I’d like to make. I understand and agree the comments and analysis made here about some of the choices in the new docu. However, the weaknesses of the let’s call it “commercial school” (or “targeting the average Joe” school) of docu making are blatant and I wish this approach didn’t dominate the BB and Brian docus. We should stop making excuses for the obvious weaknesses in the docus about the BB and Brian.

Criticizing does not mean doubting the good will of the production team.

Just on a general level of pondering when we think about let’s say movie directors we don’t make excuses for the weaknesses in their movies by going through reasons like “yeah, sure the direction in places was obviously bad, the dialogue was written as if talking to a child, and the script definitely should have been more tight in some places and maybe the totally unnecessary nudity featuring Kate Upton’s twins didn’t add anything of value to the movie. But you know what? They have to think about the commercial aspects of releasing a movie. It’s all about compromises. And even though the young lead actor was weak in the movie they were lucky to have him in it cos’ it was an understandable choice to include him as many of the younger generation are going to make a note about the director because he was in the movie.” This is not the correct way to go about it in my opinion.

Maybe criticism in the past has been overunderstanding because the hc-fans don’t want to seem like they are somehow criticizing Brian himself.

Ever since atleast the ‘Smile revisited’ era began in 2003-2004 instead of accepting in a understanding manner the weak documentaries – Beautiful dreamer included -  there should have been a strong but well reasoned push from the hc-fans towards the band’s and Brian’s camp to demand documentary material of higher quality in the vein of the Beatles Anthology series. (I am aware Anthology has been mentioned over the years many times as a model in content and quality for a potential BB docuseries and probably this idea has been in the minds of people in charge even though for whatever reason it - probably money - has not happened.) Instead we get these slightly embarrassing cavalcades of celebrity talking heads doing the “I don’t know how he did it”, “Brian’s a genius” typre of docus. I can’t help it but I find these types of docus very infantile, embarrassing even. It would have been almost comical if in the Anthology series every now and then the head of some celebrity head had popped up to say: “That Paul sure knows how to play dat bass!”, “John really was a genius!”, “I don’t know how they did it”, and so on.

On a side note. Regardless of any documentaries to me the whole “Brian’s a genius” pr-ploy is an obvious example of almost childish hype. If Brian did display genius level creativity back in the 1960’s it doesn’t need to be emphasised in that way. No thinking adult human being needs to be convinced about Mozart’s or Beethoven’s genius. I doubt celebrity heads popping up to enforce that image to the audience will lead to any average Joe watching these docus to think: “That Brian sure must be something special because the members of the elite millionare club in their mansions are telling me so.” I truly hope any future documentary will take a more mature and content driven approach to create docus that don’t rely on cheap propaganda tricks to supposedly maximize commercial value.

For reasons I don’t know no A-level director has taken it up on themselves to make a truly high quality docu of BB or Brian despite Brian’s and the band's status in popular culture. There should be someone on the level of Scorsese or Peter Jackson to handle a docuseries of the band but I don’t know if the BB and Brian are big enough names to draw the interest of a major director of that level. 

I saw this at the cinema (UK) last night with my fiance. I wasn't expecting much. From the trailer I knew there would be plenty of whats-his-face from Foo Fighters saying "Brian Wilson threw out the rulebook" and Elton John talking about putting the fifth in the bass for the millionth time. And indeed the talking head segments were the least interesting part of the film (does anyone else worry that the more we keep saying how important Brian is in the pantheon of American 20th century composers, the more it sounds like we're defending a controversial statement? Why state the obvious over and over again?)
 

As I wrote on this topic earlier, I agree about the talking heads. I wish Brian’s team would put a stop to this and advice the producers of any possible future documentary that there is to be no talking celebrity heads. 

This was one of the better documentaries about Brian and the band and a very good idea to show Brian in a intimate setting driving around in a car with his friend. Much better to watch that than some formal interview where Brian just repeats the same short answers he’s given to questions in the past few decades. I hope we will see a director’s cut on dvd with much more footage.

However, besides the setting there was not really anything new. On a more general level one thing I dislike about docus of Brian and the band is how they always bring up celebrities to give those tired one liners “Brian is a genius”, “don’t know how he does it!”, “the first time I heard that I was blown away!” etc. I find it somehow infantile and embarrassing as if the makers of the docus are insecurely trying to convince the audience of something: “Look! Even Bruce S. things he’s a genius!” As if Brian’s life, career and music don’t stand on their own. To illustrate my point: When compared to a A-class production like the Beatles Anthology I think it would have been very childish if there had been celebrity clips (Elton John's head popping up every once in a while) in those episodes telling the viewer “These guys were great and Paul & John really were geniuses!”, “I was blown away when I heard sgt. Pepper” etc. It would have been embarrassing. The story of the band and the quality of the music stand on their own and most importantly independently thinking adults don’t need to watch and hear such trivialities.

I wish we would one day see a serious biographical, musical and cultural documentary about the band written for adult audiences and the serious music fan and not for the average joe who maybe knows a song or few from the band but that is the level of interest he/she has. With all the quality of the music, the light and the darkness of the story and the influence the band has had there is easily enough story material and credibility for such a thing: a documentary written for independently thinking adults and givin’ everyone in the band a serious and detailed voice to tell their side of things. I don’t care how many episodes it would take – in today’s internet release world and with the bands financial resources make ten episodes if need be but just tell the story in a serious and adult manner. I don’t think I’m the only long time fan of the band who would like to hear for example Mike telling seriously and in detail in an informal setting (drive him around in a car and just talk maybe?) his point of view about what he feels really happened with Smile. (He's autobiography was just the same old typical public relations story telling and as such uninformative.) Do the same with Al, Bruce and Van. I don’t think we need more documentaries where they have the band members sit in formal interviews just going over the same old tired and token answers to superficial questions that we have seen over and over again for the past decades. In this sense this new docu was a step in the right direction.

I have a suggestion for the most knowledgeable people here: Since there is so much knowledge here on this board about the band and I imagine many people with different skill sets (writers, video editors, archive researchers and so on) we should collectively create a fan created anthology style documentary series using publicly available materials. Of course we would not be able to interview the band members. However there is so much video and audio materials plus books for sources available from different decades of the past there would easily be enough materials, even rare clips and other stuff for serious fans to be used for the film to create a documentary of serious proportions. The first part of this project would be to collectively write a preliminary script (of course native speakers have to acutally do the writing). This could be done here as a group effort. Then when the script is done to the satisfaction of most if not all here there would be research and gathering of audio and video materials. After this is done the video editors would take over. And all the while this is going on clips of the work in progress would be released here for everyone to comment and give their feedback.

Where can I hear that snippet?

[Al]

I am very saddened we still don't have a clear picture of what this song was supposed to be back in the day. Such a great piece of art.

Has anyone ever tried actually asking Al, Bruce or Mike: "Hey, that song Do you like worms? from Smile. Do you happen to remember the melodies of the missing vocal tracks for it? And if so, would you mind sometime giving us fans a real gift and record yourself singing it and post it on your Youtube channel? Thanks."

Someone maybe ask this question in a fan Q & A sometime or some of you more connected fans on this board maybe ask through the people who sometimes visit here and who have a direct connection(s) to the band. . .?

Most of the missing Smile vocals that were known to have once existed in mono mixes can be ascribed to this thing vanishing.

Could you elaborate on this please?

I was looking for info on this and found this unanswered topic. Is there somewhere where I can find the most current info on the "comp reel" of Dec 1966?

How does Brian sing the lyrics on his demo version of 1966?

Is the lyric?:

"To a handsome mannered baton"

or

"To a handsome man and baton"

Are  the correct lyrics for the song somewhere available?

Is there anywhere online where I can watch this?

Raditude, Hurley, Pinkerton Deluxe, Death to false metal, (the upcoming) Alone III… lots of releases and happenings in the Weezer camp during the last two years.

How do you feel about them?

I’m laughing as I’m reading my old posts in this thread. I think I took Weezer’s creative decisions at the time a bit too seriously and personally.
By now I have renewed my faith in the band and have been enjoying what they are doing. I just bought Pinkerton Deluxe and Death to false metal and I think especially the latter is great. PD had too many boring acoustic live versions on it so I’m not very into it at the moment but it is good to have those b-sides and such on cd format. I'm looking forward to Alone III.

What do you think about these new releases?

P.s. Maybe we should start a new Weezer topic?

sure would nice to be PM'd in regards to this....

Yea, same here.

By the way, why was I the only one censored and warned asking for a PM? I feel bullied.

Please read board rules

Anybody have any idea where I could see Spector's speech at the rock 'n roll hall of fame introduction 1989?

Beach Boys should have done it like Nirvana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUkFedIw6TU That is the best cover of any song ever!

Has anyone ever tried to contact Durie Parks? 

We're sure to have a million replies by February!

Sex Pistols: 'Submission'

Really? I think that's a great song like all of Nevermind the Bollocks

If you wanna hear genuine crap head on to youtube.com and type 'Aqua barbie girl'. Beware! The crappiness of that song might make you develope a serious drug addiction just to kill the pain...

I met Brian after a Smile concert in Stockholm back in 2004. He signed my Pet Sounds cd booklet, or atleast draw two blurry lines on it I will never forget his eyes, he seemed like he was insane. Those eyes were on fire. I remember the look exactly like it was yesterday. Made me feel sad for him.

Great stuff! Young Modern is a great album. Great songs. It is very inspiring to hear talented music nowadays. It's kind of sad that their international career is pretty much gone when it comes to record sales but the trends of the music business are what they are and young people, people my age don't seem to appreciate talent. Atleast here in socialist Europe. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing what they'll do next. However, I find it difficult to believe they can top Young Modern but who knows.

Don't worry baby is great! Both Alone albums are good but the second one is great! Sounds like the Weezer album I've been waiting for years.

I'm repeating myself but I must stress that I believe Make Believe sucked not beacause of the songs but because of the horrible sterile-clean supercompressed Rick Rubin production. I read that the band and Rubin had somekind of an argument or something during the making of Red Album and Rubin "stopped showing up". I hope they are no longer working together! Please, let it be so!

...

Would you people be willing to upload your mixes as a torrent or something? I have no time to track down all those songs listed individually but am interested in listening to music I haven't heard before! Send me pm or something.