I continue to be amazed at how small that studio is.

I listened to the livestream last night and really enjoyed your cover! One of my favorite Dennis songs, and one of my favorite Carl vocals. It was my song for our son when he was tiny (he's got bright, baby blue eyes). Greg does a great Carl and Bobby's vocals were angelic. Please keep doing these!

A few years ago I discovered a show on Surf 97.3 FM in Flagler Beach, FL called "Wilson Beach Radio," which featured music of The Beach Boys, Brian Wilson and friends. It included some deep tracks and a thoughtful curation of Beach Boys adjacent groups like Jan & Dean and various cover versions of Beach Boys songs.

It was an incredible show that was neat to listen to on a pocket radio on the beach. Thankfully the station also streams, but I believe the show itself is defunct and the station runs archives. I live in Utah and don't stream much from websites, so I can't say definitively. Anyway, in the spirit of that show, I'm creating a playlist for Beach Boys adjacent and cover tracks and am looking for some input. So far the playlist features the following artists:

-Explorers Club
-Wyatt Funderburk
-Wondermints (crappy YouTube rips because I won't pay $75 for an import CD)
-Blondie solo stuff
-Jeff Beck/Johnny Depp covers
-Jeff Foskett solo stuff
-Splitsville
-Jeff Larson
-Adam Marsland

But I need more! What else should I add?

A great mix and another good example of using AI well. Personally, I think this mix is a dramatic improvement on the official stereo mixes released so far. Past stereo attempts of GV have remained quite muddy and have limited separation (all for very obvious reasons), but this is both clearer and has better width and separation throughout - great work Dae Lims!

Yeah, it might be just because I'm limited to YouTube output, but I can't really tell a difference.

From Dae Lims, a superb Good Vibrations AI stereo remix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW83O-xC8bQ

Aside from the stereo, can somebody bullet point the tweaks in this? I can't tell the difference between this and the 26 other releases of this track.

One thing I like about Dae Lims work is that there is such a human presence to it. He isn't typing a prompt into ChatGPT asking for a song to be created out of thin air, he is meticulously working at these tracks, and it shows. His work is one of the few things I actually like from this new wave of modern AI tech.

Exactly. There's some other cat out there dabbling in this with Beach Boys music and I couldn't get 30 seconds into the first track. When it comes to most things AI-- from writing to art-- I'm solidly in HeyJude's camp. It's Dae Lims' love for, and deep grasp of, the music and the band AND his musical abilities that make his stuff worthwhile to me.

I dunno, but maybe it would be "Why? Didn't I finish the album in 2004, and didn't we also put out a Beach Boys version several years later?"

I'll have more to write when I get to my previously-mentioned thoughts on my recent re-listen to a bunch of that AI vocal stuff, but I will say that the stuff works much more as a "squint and imagine" exercise as opposed to a crystal clear, full-blown, high-fidelity detailed listening session.

I think Brian would be able to tell these things don't sound like him (or Carl, or Mike, etc.), and the question would be more whether he would be a nice, polite guy and say "Interesting, cool, thanks for your enthusiasm" or "Wow, that kind of sounds somewhat like us", or just blurt out that it doesn't sound like the Beach Boys individually or collectively.

I regret using Smile as an example in my question because both responses to it so far have focused more on my use of Smile as an example (it happened to have been the latest Dae Lims thing I listened to) than the actual question I'm asking. Let's forget I used that example. And I won't provide another one because that will get parsed to hell too.

Had AI been around in the 60s, might Brian have considered using it?

Ok, I'll ask another question: If Brian was to listen to something Dae Lims made-- say his AI SMiLe-- what might his reaction be?

I’m dumbfounded that the simple act of someone enjoying a piece of music is so unsettling to you that you need to write a 15 paragraph post in an attempt to “advocate” that these people need to listen to certain type of music. You claim that people who listen to AI are wasting their time, but yet all I see here are people who are just simply enjoying what they are listening to (so to them it’s not a waste of time). It’s just kinda weird that you’re attempting to “encourage” & “advocate” that people enjoy a certain type of music. Also kinda weird that you’re dictating what is and isn’t a waste of people’s time.

His disdain-- not just for "fake" music, but for those of us that don't share his opinion on this matter-- is palpable.

[already]

It needs to be said: this is getting tiresome from both sides. There is no resolving such different perspectives. No one is going to "win" here.

I seriously doubt that more than 5% of those who listen to AI-generated tunes become so enamored of them that they prefer them to the originals. That argument is such a pathetic strawman that I'm shocked it came from someone who is ordinarily one of the most intelligent posters here.

If a few folk go over the edge in that way, it's because some portion of the population will do so with anything. (Hell, a lot higher percentage of the US population has gone over the edge with respect to far more pressing issues, and possibly we should be focusing on that danger as opposed to the "specter of AI" ruining our lives.)

I absolutely love what Dae Lims has been doing. Do I think it replaces or supplants the original recordings? Of course not. I'm a fan of Dae Lims in the sense that GF alluded to--admiring the work of a man with significant talent, sensitivity and expertise who is paying his form of tribute to a band that he loves just as much as any of us. That tribute should be seen as a sincere effort to replicate a sound that no other group of individuals can recreate for us--it is not coming to us from some cabal of "pod people" gestating in someone's basement, but from someone who's carefully studied the band for some time, and who's making a sincere effort to respect the underlying aesthetics at work.

Do I think that he's achieving 100% success? Of course not--but, then again, neither did the band. Do I prefer some of Dae Lims work to some portion of the band's actual output? I can't say for sure at this point, because I've had half a century to make up my mind about the relative quality of the band's music. But I seriously doubt that Dae Lims has any illusions about his work somehow supplanting the band's recorded legacy. Enough with the spookifying already! Do I like Dae Lim's "Our Happy Home" more than, say, "Cuckoo Clock"? Absolutely--even as a "fake," it's better sung, and it's an intriguing and quite beguiling reimagining of "Our Sweet Love," a much more sophisticated track than what the band (and Brian) were capable in their very earlv years. So shoot me already! 

We can either agree to disagree and move on, or we can keep bickering about something that already is totally out of our control. Regardless of what anyone thinks about this issue from any possible perspective, the momentum of AI is relentless and will have more effects on the future than what is occurring here in this little cocoon of ours.

Let's just not get as intractable as the misanthrope over at the Nearest Faraway Place, who probably would (if he could) send a ragtag mob of hooligan purists over to Dae Lims' studio to put a halt to all this. That won't stop it, either, and it would just deprive us of the one person who does this with a palpable sense of artistry.

Just remember: no one has to listen to it if they don't want to! 

Very well said.

Had AI been around in the 60s, might Brian have considered using it?

I guess I find a level of absurdity that is something like this:

This makes sense if you believe there's nothing redeeming in this content, that it brings nothing new to the table, that it can't possibly generate excitement about real Beach Boys music. You do you, chief.

If you’re genuinely curious about why people like this stuff, perhaps ask them “why?” instead of telling them to listen to a Tampa ’74 show.

As for the rest of your post, I still completely stand by everything I said about musical/technical creativity and people’s personal music taste, and don’t see the need to respond further about that.

Bingo. I explained sum of my "why" in the reply above. Beyond that, I'm intrigued by what could have been. As somebody who internalized the band's catalogue decades ago, I think a lot about what else they could have done and how that might have sounded. AI is a way to sort of test that. Most of it that I've heard so far, noble an effort as it may be, is terrible. Dae Lims' stuff is a rare exception (save for his 'Holy Man,' which makes Dennis sound British for some reason).

I'm intrigued by how close we can get to impersonation. I'm intrigued with the process.

But what I'm intrigued with the most is how apparent Dae Lims' talent is. He had to craft a dead-on analog impersonation of Brian with his own voice.  You can know these utilities in and out and be an expert musician, but if you don't intimately understand the sound of a person's voice, it's going to sound off, at best. Dae Lims has replicated most of Brian, Carl and Al's vocal qualities-- from the position of their tongues to the way they use their vocal chords-- with his own God given vocal chords.

AI just rounds out the sound, mitigating for anatomical structure and the genetic factors that make somebody's voice unique. It's quite a talent. I'm intrigued by it.

Personally, I’m a little less excited at the prospect of hearing “young Brian” sing something he already sang as an older Brian, but I can still enjoy it if it sounds good.

That's actually what I'm most excited about, particularly as I continue to explore why I don't care much for later Beach Boys music (particularly Love You) and Brian's solo stuff. Would I appreciate Love You more if it was sung by a younger, less vocally thrashed Brian? If nothing else, it's a troubleshooting tool. Dae Lims made a Love You track sung by a 60s Brian and I really like it. This tells me that part of my distaste for that album is Brian's voice. Turns out I really can't stand Brian's vocals from the 70s until about BWPS. Hearing some tracks from those decades sung by a younger Brian gives me a new appreciation for them.

Dae Lims says periodically on his live streams that his AI tracks exist as lossless and are "out there."

I would like to know where "out there" is. If somebody knows, I'd appreciated a DM.

https://archive.org/details/dae-lims-archive

Excuse my naivete, but these appear to be lossless versions of his YT videos, not necessarily lossless versions of the actual tracks he produced. Are those not "out there"?

Dae Lims says periodically on his live streams that his AI tracks exist as lossless and are "out there."

I would like to know where "out there" is. If somebody knows, I'd appreciated a DM.

RE: Brian's appearance on Emile Haynie's "Falling Apart" track...

I recall reading on this board about some isolated Brian vocals that appeared as kind of an easter egg (like after 20 seconds of dead silence at the end of another track). I remember confirming this on Spotify and bookmarked the track. However, the track disappeared from my playlist sometime over the years. A search here for key terms like title, artist, etc. net zero results. It's almost as if it never existed.

So either it existed and has been pulled, or I dreamed this.

The album track itself is good, but Brian's buried so deep that I'd have never noticed he was there if his name didn't appear. I distinctly remember listening to the isolated easter egg vocals over and over again.

Does this ring a bell to anybody? Where can I find what I have lost?

Mysteriously, the American Spring stuff is now greyed out on Spotify and can't be played.  Wonder why?  Anyone else having this issue?   

Yep. The only song available to me is the weakest track on the record-- "Sweet Mountain."

The backing track of Baby Blue sounds exquisite, but the vocals still sound pretty muddy. In fact, the noise behind Carl's voice in this mix seems much more prominent. It sounds like he's on a CB radio somewhere.

I haven't followed the track listing much, but I was excited to hear this release would include tracks from Still Cruisin'. Maybe on certain versions? Cause the only Still Cruisin' track I see on Spotify is Kokomo.

A few thoughts from the concert last night in Salt Lake City...

This is my first time seeing Brian perform, so I have nothing to gauge this against. Unfortunately, I can't imagine that this wasn't my final opportunity to see him perform live.

Brian opened for Chicago, which was absolutely appropriate. Chicago had all the energy of their old days and a new album due out this summer. They were absolutely incredible. I've always lamented the fact that Chicago and Peter Cetera parted ways and that they haven't performed together since. The new tenor vocalist, Neil Donnell, is the first Cetera replacement that actually does a decent Cetera. I sure a good chunk of the audience had no idea he wasn't Cetera. Older dude with the voice of a 30 year old Cetera. Kudos there.

But back to Brian and the band. There were some spine tingling moments for sure: a lifelong fan seeing Brian in person for the first time, Darian's lead vocals, Blondie's guitar riffs.

--Brian is mostly absent, vocally, which I expected, but I had to wonder if he was more absent than the band expected. There were several tracks where it seemed like they expected Brian to take a lead vocal, but he didn't, resulting in songs with no first verse as the rest of the guys tried to figure out who would cover for him. You'd think they'd make a plan like, "ok, Brian's slated to take this lead. If he doesn't, that goes to you, Matt." And maybe they had contingency plans, but it sure didn't seem like it. I found myself relieved when a song came up where I knew definitively that somebody was assigned a lead and they knew it.

--Al, strangely, was also pretty absent. I think he sang lead on only one song (Help Me Rhonda). Like Brian, Al used a... shorthand style of singing, for lack of a better word. I *think* he sounded good, but I had no way of knowing because he kept turning away from the mic. He introed a few songs and stumbled with wording each time. Weird.

--Matt seems to have taken most of both Al and Brian's leads. At least he was the one who'd eventually pick up a lead when Brian would stop. Matt sounded so, so good. I don't know how he does it, but he can sound impeccibly like Al, Brian and Mike as the need arises.

--Darian-- flawless. I love his energy. Chicago's horn section joined him for a song.

--Blondie was NUTS. Wow. I've read they added Blondie to the touring group back in the day because of the energy he brought. Makes sense. He was a much needed shot in the arm last night-- dancing all over, crazy guitar solos. I left the venue a new Blondie fan.

--I was very much hoping for "Wishing You Were Here" with Chicago, but sadly that didn't happen.

--Love and Mercy was touching with sparse instruments that showcased the band's angelic harmonies. It was the only song I felt Brian made a legit attempt at, and he got a standing O at the end. I'm so grateful to have witnessed and participated in it, because I know what that means to him.

Why didn't Jan spend more time getting in-tune vocals that were delivered with confidence and that passion that marks a classic vocal recording? Who knows.

I'm stumped, too. Listening to their entire catalog, it's clear that they never made any serious effort to improve their singing.

Joshilyn, one reason I think they "get the job done" for me, too, is their amateur singing has the air of youth and carefree innocence-- like a couple of buddies singing about their life with little concern for what someone might think.

Sorry, it had to be said.

With all the focus on the Beach Boys' middle era lately (Feel Flows Box Set), I decided it's high time I start at the beginning and retrace everything from the early days up to Sunflower/Surf's Up. Naturally, I started with Jan & Dean.

I think everyone agrees that J&D were pivotal in the development and popularization of the surf rock sound, but they. simply. can't. sing.

That said... I absolutely love them. I've immersed myself in their music for the last few days, and I can't wipe the smile off my face.

Were J&D aware they can't sing? I can't help but wonder if this was more of a feature than a bug. Thoughts?

I've never heard much of Dennis' stuff prior to today. That guy had music in his soul! Did the guys sing on his material, or am I hearing a wall of Dennis's?

Bonnevillemariner, if I came across as sanctimonious I genuinely apologise. I was trying to answer your question with what I saw, and still see, as a possible answer to your question. Let me reiterate that there is no 'wrong' way to be moved by art.

No, you didn't come across as sanctimonious at all. I really appreciated your explanations. For me it boils down to this: If the music doesn't sound good in a simple setup or a casual listening environment, there's a problem with the music-- not my method of consumption. Thus, purchasing a specific set of equipment and arranging my listening space just so isn't a real solution. The longer we discuss it, the more I realize there probably isn't a solution...

...aside from the re-record idea that I posited above. 

I don't want to wade into the rest of the discussion, but in the case of This Whole World in particular, I think it's clear that at least some of the perceived tininess of the backing vocals is an intentional effect. The 2009 remaster of Sunflower is harsh and trebly accross the board. The 2014 AP remaster and 2015 HDtracks remaster (latter is my go-to) sound warmer and closer to Desper's needledrops of the original pressings, but still, it's there to an extent in This Whole World. The vocals apparently just have that unusual EQ right on the tape. In the om-dot-didits, Brian's got Al and Dennis down on the lower parts singing with this pinched, nasal tone that stand out among the harmonies - obviously a specific thing he was going for there for better or worse, accentuated with the recording technique. There are many places on the album with vocals that don't sound like that.

It may have something to do with favoured trends in the moment too. Feet, recorded during the Sunflower period, also has that vocal quality. None of the rest of Surf's Up really does.

I fear you may be right, and that is unfortunate. The Boys were known for their rich, lush sibling harmonies. Any Tom, Dick or Harry could have sung most of the harmonies on that track. "Hey, we're infamous for doing this thing. Let's purposely subvert that for this record." So, so stupid. The Beach Boys' later eras are filled with decisions that turned out to be unfortunate.

I find it interesting that Feet was recorded during the Sunflower period. I was not aware of that fact. The backing tracks on Sunflower sound pretty pristine to me, hence my comment earlier about it being the best sounding track, instrumentally, on Surf's Up.

Is there any way to listen to Stephen’s study videos? The only link I could find is dead.

Yeah, I think Stephen has his videos up on the Endless Harmony forum…you have to make an account there to see them. Needless to say, many people here won’t be hearing Stephen’s mixes.

I remember going on a wild goose chase to gain access to one of them through this board. It was many years ago and it involved following clues to passwords that would unlock the video or something. I didn't bother trying to find the rest.