I don't think it's absurd at all. All part of my theory that the idea of the Beach Boys transcends the necessity of the original members' participation. Replace Brian with Al, by all means. When Al is done, replace him with a look-a-like; Mickey Rooney, for example.

... Brian playing 'Johnny Carson' with his guests of the time, that is playing at being Carson and interviewing them with his new toy.

Didn't Kramer once do the same damn thing in his apartment? Built a set and everything. One more bit of evidence of the Brian Wilson Influence On Pop Culture.

A lot of people don't even recognize his name.

Or if they do, the response may well be, "Him? Is he still alive?" I can personally attest to this.

Did BWPS not come out under Melinda's watch? Is it not better than any long-time fan/obsessive could have realistically hoped for, given BW being who and what he is (I am not long-time by any means. If you are and don't feel this way, feel free to tell me I'm full of ____.)

Give Melinda due props, I say.

Well, if it was to be a series, HBO would be the place for it. And since Deadwood is almost done, David Milch could do the job. His classical feel would well befit the subject matter, tragic and pathetic as it is.

Wouldn't it largely depend on the director to make something out of the script, no matter how flat it seems? I'm not sure if his visual stylings would merely serve as a distraction given the subject matter, but for gibbering, drug-induced craziness, Terry Gilliam might be an interesting choice.

Hey baby you're a sweet young thing,
Still tied to Mommy's apron strings,
I don't even dare to ask your age,
It's enough to know you're here backstage,
You're Jailbait, and I just can't wait,
Jailbait baby come on
One chase baby, all I need,
My decision made at lightning speed,
I don't even want to know your name,
It's enough to know you feel the same,
Jailbait, and I just can't wait,
Jailbait baby get down

Tell you baby oh you look so fine,
Sending quivers up and down my spine,
I don't care about our different ages,
I'm an open book with well thumbed pages,
Jailbait, oh and I ain't too late,
Jailbait baby get down

Ahhhh, the poetry of Lemmy... and this does not come close to comparing with the sleaze factor of the Jailbait song by Andre Williams. These tunes may help put Brian's more lecherous moments into perspective.

I wonder if 'Hey Nineteen' was originally titled 'Hey Thirteen'?

My guess is that he likes making music more than he does doing interviews.

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

Well, I'm no expert on social mores in early sixties Hawthorne (but I'll bet someone is !), however, I present to you these two scenarios (scenaria ?):

#1
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Brian Wilson, hugely wealthy main man of the famous Beach Boys to her parents.

#2
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Dwayne Geekly, burger jockey at Foster's Freez to her parents.

Now. which one is more likely to be told "sure, you can sleep in the girls room", and which one is going to have his sorry ass kicked all the way down Sierra Bonita ?

Hmmmmm... depends whether her parents want her to have an 'in' in the music biz, or the exciting world of fast-food retail.

For the record (for what that's worth coming from a cipher on a message board, such as I am) I don't reckon Brian was or is a 'pervert', whatever else he may be. I figure his artistic and commercial success came from his absolute brilliance as a musician. The lyrics for songs like LL, Tomboy, and I wanna Pick You Up don't offend me at all - I will admit to my eyes bugging out of my head a bit when I first heard the line about one shaving one's legs. I don't even think there's necessarily  a huge difference between 21 and 15. For Jerry Lee, by every account I've read Myra was the mature one of the pair from the beginning. For Brian, Marilyn's parents seemingly had a good grasp of the situation, which to me is somehow important.

Look, Brian could have used sections of the Yellow Pages as lyrics and it still would have sounded great - not sure though if I'd feel the same way if he'd used passages from Mein Kampf or something like that.

This, I suppose, is the time for me to trot out the old Ronnie Hawkins quote. When asked about Jerry Lee Lewis' marriage to the thirteen-year old Myra, his response was, "Thirteen? Hell, us good ole boys knew she wuz only twelve..."

Has it not been posited that a reason for Brian's artistic and commercial success was his understanding of and identification with the teenage psyche?

Note: I reserve the right to draw a distinction between the terms 'pervert' and 'creep'.

1) So this guy used to have hordes of teenaged girls throwing themselves at him. No mutual attraction? Can't see it. Nor can I see that attraction being shut off at the push of a button at a certain age.

Question: was Jesus Juice even invented back then?

2) Just how old was that little gal he married when he met her, anyways? (And no, I don't mean Melinda - not that there's any evidence she wasn't wearing a schoolgirl uniform when they met in that car dealership...)

Hey Nineteen - now there's a movie concept I'd pay to see. Dunno if they'd be able to get Owen to do it, though; no doubt Luke would end up starring instead (not really an improvement.) I'm sure that the movie Dupree would have benefited from the incest angle of the song. SD's finest songs are somewhat cinematic in scope in any case - and did Fagen not write a column for Premiere or Entertainment awhile back?

Regarding this item, a newspaper writer up here wondered whether or not the SD guys were still on drugs. At this point, I'd say yes - Metamucil, no doubt. OW, on the other hand...

I wonder which group had access to more and better drugs at the time?

You think drugs were an influence on those albums?

Yeah, prolly... but for sure is the influence drugs had on my perception of those albums.

I know the Byrds wanted to be the "American Beatles" and borrowed a lot of their sound from the Beatles. The Byrds are one of my top favorite bands. But I feel Rubber Soul is so Byrds influenced, with songs like "Nowhere Man", that's it really the Beatles trying to do a folk rock album and using the Byrds as their model. And I don't think its as good as Mr. Tambourine Man. I don't think the songs or the production are as strong. Even the Rubber Soul album cover is a rip off of the Mr. Tambourine Man album cover.

I'm sure everybody else will disagree.

I don't necessarily disagree, though I like Rubber Soul a bit better. The Byrds definitely had a more direct connection to 'folk music' than did the Beatles, or a folk scene at any rate (arguably not, depending on what you think of skiffle.) The folk guys who influenced the Byrds were in turn also influenced by Buddy Holly (Fred Neil, Dylan) and Leadbelly (Bob Gibson), as were the Beatles. Just makes me think of what an interesting time it was for cross-pollination of musical genres.

Song for song I think Rubber Soul is a bit stronger, with more variety if that's your bag.

I wonder which group had access to more and better drugs at the time?

That reminds me - I must have chili for dinner tonight...

Is there enough material, in the opinion of those who have heard the vast majority of the 66/67 tapes, to construct what could be deemed a completed SMiLE album right now? (My definition of 'completed album' is pretty loose, but it wouldn't include the versions of songs heard on 20/20 or Surf's Up.)

Over 5 years ago I picked up a compilation: The Essential Johnny Cash (1955-1983) on Columbia (I'm not even sure if there's a Columbia Records anymore.) If you can find it, I'd recommend it, especially as a good portion of Disc 1 covers his Sun recordings. 3 discs, about 70 tunes, not much dross.

He was another of those 'you either love him or hate him' guys. And what exactly was his music when he started? Rockabilly? Rock? Country? Blues? Folk? I've never quite been able to put my finger on it. Interesting fella too - poet, hack, man of god, pill-popping freak all rolled into one.

[BWPS]

Does anyone have a copy of the old post, I forget which board it was on, regarding an early (BWPS) tracklisting that included "Time To Get Alone" and "Diamondhead"?  That story is fascinating, as well.  Who came up with this early list?  If Brian, did he simply change his mind, or did someone talk him out of this lineup?  I would like to know more about what went down early in the process.

Prayer/Time To Get Alone /Bicycle Rider / Link/ Diamond Head/ Worms / H&V / Holidays / Link / Old Master Painter / Sunshine / Wonderful / Link / Cabinessence / Link / Wind Chimes / Fall Breaks / Veg / Fire / Dada / Cool Cool / Workshop / Surf's Up

The list I recall seeing was a bit longer, had at least one song included twice (aside from "Link", that is) and was most decidedly not in Brian's hand. Also, it was not a BWPS tracklisting per se, but a proposed live running order. It's a suble difference, but an important one. I understand that there were at least two proposed track orders before the one they finally settled on.

Yer absolutely right... try this instead:

Prayer/Time To Get Alone /Bicycle Rider / Link/ Diamond Head/ Worms / H&V / Holidays / Link / Old Master Painter / Sunshine / Wonderful / Link / Look/ Link / Child / Link / Cabinessence / Link / Wind Chimes / Fall Breaks / Veg / Fire / Dada / Cool Cool / Workshop / Surf's Up ... I missed a line of it on the lil'scrap of paper upon which the list is kept, waiting for the day when I finally assemble it (like I'll ever get around to it.)

Maybe he did exactly know how it was goihg to fit together. When you can actually assign percentages of how much is finished, you must have an idea of the whole picture.

Am I the only one who thought that a completed SMiLE would be much, much more fragmented, with the various musical themes running the whole record, even in brief snippets?

Does anyone have a copy of the old post, I forget which board it was on, regarding an early (BWPS) tracklisting that included "Time To Get Alone" and "Diamondhead"?  That story is fascinating, as well.  Who came up with this early list?  If Brian, did he simply change his mind, or did someone talk him out of this lineup?  I would like to know more about what went down early in the process.

Prayer/Time To Get Alone /Bicycle Rider / Link/ Diamond Head/ Worms / H&V / Holidays / Link / Old Master Painter / Sunshine / Wonderful / Link / Cabinessence / Link / Wind Chimes / Fall Breaks / Veg / Fire / Dada / Cool Cool / Workshop / Surf's Up

I was wondering the same thing. From what AGD said about Brian putting Solar System on it if left to his own devices, I can assume that this surprising list reflected Brian's wishes at one point.


If Brian actually came up with the musical idea for H&V back in 1963, then maybe putting Solar System on SMiLE wouldn't be terribly far-fetched.


Edit: AGD did not say anything about Solar System, but Buddhahat did. My bad.

One more thing: BWPS is the definitive SMiLE, until Brian makes a better one.

I only wish the sound was better on that Yellow Balloon CD. I wonder what they mastered it from?

Otherwise, it's a total gas!

He was good - been listening to him a fair bit lately. I'm not sure, though, if he was a superb melodist (as some assert). His music was all about the tremendous feel it had when he did it. You ever hear the demos of his songs done by Elton John way back when? (At least, that's what the filename says.) Nick's music needed just the right touch to make it great, which I've only heard Nick give it.

I love his guitar playing. Top-notch; I mean, it makes me want to pick up the guitar again whenever I hear it. Fine, sympathetic string arrangements, and good use of those Fairport Convention fellas.

I remember drinking coke as a child and it tasted different.  The taste was more distinctive and the carbonation seemed stronger.  Maybe my senses are dulled with age, but I think the product is less than it once was.

Everything is less than what it once was.

When recently in Mexico, I tried the Coke, hoping to taste some revelatory difference. Nope. I can't tell any difference between U.S., Canadian, and Mexican Coke. You'd think that with worldwide product consistency being very important, and understanding of food chemistry being what it is these days, making a product taste the same in three countries should be a snap (possible catering to local tastes notwithstanding.)

The one local ingredient in a soft drink would have to be water. I guess they completely filter it, then possibly 'remineralize' it to make it the same around the world. Then take some of it, call it 'Dasani' or 'Aquafina', then sell it to us for the same as what we'd pay for it with syrup and carbonation. Fine with me - I've got more money than I know what to do with anyways (place tongue-in-cheek emoticon here.)

I read awhile back that in some totally blind tastings, wine fanciers could not tell the difference between red and white wine. If one cannot differentiate between those, then sussing out regional differences in a soft drink must be a tall order, no?

At any rate, after reading various articles from the group and seeing many viewpoints, I've come to this conclusion...The Beach Boys are mainly talented and lucky white trash.

All this back and forth "I wrote that song, bla bla bla" and "Mike's an egotistical maniac, bla bla bla" is nothing more than typical family yapping with a lot of money at their disposal.

If they didn't have all that money, they'd use their fists and ballbats instead of lawyers.   No question they'd all move next to each other because anything outside of their family compound would startle them.

This being the case, who would be the one living in the basement?

Just throw him Darian and call it done.   He's the best candidate and has proven himself highly worthy of hovering in both  Brian-Spaceland and the real world.

Still, I'd be more interested to hear him with someone different - someone who could take him outside his comfort zone a bit. Also, someone who has a name and an outside rep. Darian is basically his musical secretary, right? (Well, maybe a bit more.)

And cta - thanks for telling who your avatar is in the signature. I coulda swore it was Redd Foxx in a turban...