That's a logical fallacy.
Argumentum ad populum– concluding an argument is true simply because lots of people think it’s true. We see this on commercials all the time: “9 out of 10 doctors recommend Acme Brand Toothpaste,” or “3 million Brand X Customers Can’t be Wrong! Buy Brand X Today.”

Other's people's/critic's ratings doesn't actually prove it's quality but I respect that you love SMiLE.

//rock onwards dunder

You do realise that Metacritic took an aggregate review score of Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE and The SMiLE Sessions, 7 years later. They scored 97 and 96 out of 100 respectively.

We're not arguing about objective and absolute facts here. You could use that argument against anything that is subjective. The fact remains, that even now, years after, SMiLE, in all its variations, is widely viewed by fans, critics and the public, more positively then it is negatively.

You do realise that Metacritic took an aggregate review score of Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE and The SMiLE Sessions, 7 years later. They scored 97 and 96 out of 100 respectively. I have listened to hours and hours of SMiLE music for the last 25 years and I can't recall thinking any of it was anything less than brilliant, even the small fragments that were recorded and discarded. Your viewpoint is very much in the minority, contrarian and cannot be even for one minute taken seriously.

What really matters is this...the fact that SMiLE did not see release in 1967 remains a tragedy, both personally for Brian Wilson and for the Beach Boys as recording artists. Its release would have cemented their critical success that began with Beach Boys Today! and continued through to Pet Sounds. Try to understand that Brian Wilson gave it his all, as a member of the Beach Boys, as a recording artist, as musician, songwriter, producer, arranger....by 1967 he had nothing left. What I feel is that few people around him could empathise with his workload. Perhaps his friends were taken in with the notion that he was a gravy train with no end. History proved them wrong.

Some excellent insights in this thread for sure. You'd be surprised how many of the songs on Pet Sounds have a foundation i-iv-v chord progression and/or i-iv progression, in major and minor keys. For example, the verses in Wouldn't It Be Nice are F-Bb-C7 with the bridge F#m-Bm. The complexity of these songs (and others on Pet Sounds) comes from the bass notes, which many other artists such as Paul McCartney and Elton John have attested to and have been influenced by it in their own music.

There are some songs that take these basic foundations even further, centring on two chords. For example, the famous French Horn introduction to God Only Knows is A-E and the main chords to Here Today in the verse is Bm-A and Chorus D-A. I believe that Brian took this basic two chord foundation, incorporating complex melody arrangements, even further with SMiLE. I know that Tobias Bernard wrote a great article on the music of SMiLE espousing the two-chord theory on the old Smile Shop site.

A friend of mine told me that the two-chord song structure on many songs on SMiLE was influenced by 1920s American jazz which would be understandable in light of the Americana theme of the album.

One thing I know for sure is that the music of SMiLE is anything but basic, Brian took these basic two-chords movements to a whole other level. (For example, the Gm7/D-Dm7/G verse chords on Surf's Up or the F7-Bb on the verse and Gm-C7 'Bicylcle Rider' section of Do You Like Worms?)

One thing I was thinking about, just this week, is that Pet Sounds has mostly traditional introductions on each song (excepting That's Not Me, Don't Talk, Here Today and I Just Wasn't Made For These Times) whereas the SMiLE-era songs differed by beginning with the verse mainly (Heroes and Villains, Cabinessence, Wonderful, Surf's Up, Vegetables, Wind Chimes and Good Vibrations).

I went to the Tuesday Sydney show on the 29th. Yes, Brian had a few moments where lyrics were forgotten, he was off-key etc. but I was in the 12th row with my work colleague (and from there they sounded fine), a fellow Beach Boys fanatic, and I still consider the experience money well spent. The band were outstanding and I'm grateful I got to see them. If you've experienced the 2002 Pet Sounds tour shows then you'd know that Brian's band and show then were at the 'top of their form'. Surely no-one can expect the same at this stage of their careers? I was happy with the band performance on Tuesday night.

I was at the Sydney Opera House show last night in Sydney. I'll post some more later when I have time. Some observations:

1) I was at Homebush Arena for the Beach Boys 50th Anniversary World Tour Show in Sydney in August 2012. That show was outstanding, great musicians. This show was easily its equal
2) The Opera House is a great venue for this type of show
3) To do the greatest hits, have an intermission, and then do Pet Sounds...and then a six song encore, it blew me away.
4) I went to see Jeff Buckley in 1996 at the Enmore Theatre in Sydney, then he passed away tragically the year after. In the same way, I think if anything were to happen (although I wish nothing to happen to our beloved Brian), he is 74 soon, and if this is the last Beach Boys/Brian Wilson show I ever attend, I can die satisfied!

I think there are some valid points here many of you, and I greatly enjoy reading your contributions, despite the fact that I don't post much. Mujan, I love your passion and deeply reflective thoughts on the whole SMiLE era, and Micha, how I wish we had the time to discuss these things further when we met up in Australia!

What I find interesting about SMiLE's demise is Brian's current take on it as sourced from his bio on his webpage...

http://www.brianwilson.com/brian/

Notice how the incredible success the Beach Boys had from 1962 to 1966 is summed up in one paragraph, then how much of the 1966 era recordings (Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations/SMiLE) is mentioned thereafter. I also find it telling that there's a photo of his family, with his children, and not one but two video links to Surf's Up.

If I may quote the following from 'I Just Wasn't Made for These Times'

Every time I get the inspiration
To go change things around
No one wants to help me look for places
Where new things might be found

Where can I turn when my fair weather friends cop out
What's it all about

I can't help but feel how important Surf's Up was to the whole theme of SMiLE, both musically, lyrically and thematically. Brian's feelings of discontentment at the lack of support from many quarters must have been building up incrementally throughout late 1965 and throughout 1966, so that when your own family doesn't want to follow your vision on 'Manifest Destiny' (as summed up in Surf's Up), it surely must have been the 'final straw' so to speak.

Much as I welcome another tour of Pet Sounds I cant help but think id love to see and hear another tour of SMILE.. .This subject never comes up and im not pooh poohing  the new PS tour.. I wonder if BW is avoiding the issue.. It has been over 10 yrs since SMILE was played live.. Just sayin and asking..

I agree. I regret not seeing the SMiLE shows in 2004. I console myself with playing the Live show from the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE DVD every now and then .(Wow...Currently $99 on Amazon!)

The Sydney Opera House show on Tuesday March 29th (8 pm) went on sale to the general public on Friday December 4th. I just checked tonight to see there are only 39 tickets left (in the bleachers). I'm very happy that I got a seat in the stalls, 12 rows from the stage.

Brian will play the Pet Sounds, take an intermission, then play greatest hits. I'm really looking forward to this, especially after enjoying the Beach Boys 50th Anniversary Tour show in 2012 in Sydney.

Why do you hate Mike Love? I don't. Let bygones be bygones.

The DVD is now $3 cheaper than the Blu-ray at $9.96 on Amazon .

I didn't intend to start a Blu-ray/DVD debate, just kindly stated that the DVD was cheaper on Amazon. If you want the Blu-ray or DVD, that's up to you. I pre-ordered the Blu-ray. September can't come fast enough.

The DVD is now $3 cheaper than the Blu-ray at $9.96 on Amazon .

Hey Micha, it would be great to meet up in Sydney again. PM my friend!

It's Over Now!

I was at the Sydney Beach Boys 50th Anniversary concert and I can tell you Mike still can carry a show up front. That was a professional show put on by outstanding entertainers who would put people half their age to shame.

Denny's motivation to credit his father and other Wrecking Crew musicians is indeed powerful. I admire his perseverance, even if it clashes with the facts, which of course is not desirable. I sympathise with his obvious frustration at the lack of support for making this movie and I'm relieved it's finally coming out.

Dear Mr. Wilson...

I wanted to personally thank you for the gift of music you've bestowed upon us all and the great joy it has given me (and many others) over the years.I recognise that this gift has come at great cost to you, but I want to encourage you to know that you have and continue to make a positive difference in the lives of others and for that I am thankful.

John.

My wife doesn't quite connect with my passion for the complexity in Brian Wilson's music from Today in 1965 until the SMiLE era in 1967, when Brian was using Wrecking Crew musicians in particular. However, I remember doing work at home on the weekend this year and I had Made in California boxset playing in the background. She noted a marked difference in the quality of the music after the SMiLE era songs had finished. I know this (statement) will stir things up on this board among some of you, but to quote the character Jeff Lebowski (or the Dude) from the film the Big Lebowski, "that's, like, her opinion, man!"

As in better quality or a different quality?

A different quality...as in, the standard of the music was much better prior to the SMiLE 1967 era music.

I'm speaking from a musician's point of view here, but after seeing the beach Boys on their C50 tour in Sydney in 2012, I concluded two things...

1) The Beach Boys show was professional and great entertainment value for the cost of my ticket ($AU 250)

2) Some of the musicians were outstanding, especially the drummer John Cowsill and David Marks, not to mention Scott Totten, Darian Sahanaja and Probyn Gregory.

I think David Marks is the most talented guitarist within the original Beach Boys, I understand why Carl wanted him around in the early days. I'm currently reading Brad Tolinski's book,  'Light & Shade: conversations with Jimmy Page' and in it Page talks about how a mentor told him early on the importance of practice, practice, practice and especially the idea of the need to try things that a little beyond you so that you can get better. I can't help but feel that musically David was like this from a very early age, Carl had the same attitude in his late teens, whereas Brian took this a whole step further by applying it to his production methods during the mid-sixties.

Going back to Dave, I like him a lot overall as a person. He could have been bitter about how things turned out, but when he got his chance to play again he did a great job.

My wife doesn't quite connect with my passion for the complexity in Brian Wilson's music from Today in 1965 until the SMiLE era in 1967, when Brian was using Wrecking Crew musicians in particular. However, I remember doing work at home on the weekend this year and I had Made in California boxset playing in the background. She noted a marked difference in the quality of the music after the SMiLE era songs had finished. I know this (statement) will stir things up on this board among some of you, but to quote the character Jeff Lebowski (or the Dude) from the film the Big Lebowski, "that's, like, her opinion, man!"

Around 1991 I picked up The Early Years version of Smile on CD from Red Eye Records in Sydney. The quality was obviously from cassettes and some songs were not from the SMiLE sessions such as Heroes and Villains and Wind Chimes (both from Smiley Smile) and Vegetables (which was the Laughing Gravy version!). A year later I got the Chapter One release which was way better in terms of audio quality. Anyway, this was the pre-internet era (that is 1995 onwards and Windows 95 made us all computer/internet users) and I wasn't to know that this version of Vegetables was not by the Beach Boys until a few years later. It's a great cover version though, I've always admired it!

Wow...I've been following the Beatles/Beach Boys since the late 1980s and I have never seen this photo before. It had me intrigued. Now, I read once that John Lennon said Mike Love was a jerk, as confirmed by Van Dyke Parks in this thread...

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2652.0

Ok...where would we be without Google? I just did a search of this image and found this Beatle Women blog with lots of pictures I've not seen before either...

http://beatle-girls.blogspot.com.au/2010/12/blog-post_18.html

Notice Macca with ciggie in hand, apparently quite a few photos of Macca from the sixties required touching-up due to his prodigious smoking habit (and I though Lennon smoked like a chimney!)

Sorry everyone, I got side-tracked. What is this topic/thread about again?

That was Billy Strange, one of the classic studio tales of the 60's. Billy tells the whole thing in the PS Sessions booklet, but basically Brian called Billy on a Sunday when he was off and had visitation with his kids, and asked him to come to the studio to see if he could add something to the track which was Sloop John B. Billy didn't have access to his guitars, so Brian called the owner of Wallichs Music City, Glen Wallichs, at home, they opened up the store, and someone delivered a brand new Fender Twin amp and Electric XII guitar to Western. Billy played the part, which amounted to not much more than one section of music, Brian gave him 500 cash and told him "don't forget your guitar and amp", and gave him the Fenders.

"Don't forget your guitar and amp"? Both instrument and amp today will go for up to $US10000 combined. Man, I wish I was Billy Strange! Also, it is easy to forget the method of production used by Brian for making this album which is counter to how albums have been made since. Those hours of rehearsal time were used to balance the sound of the many musicians in the studios mainly, with the added bonus that during these rehearsals some unintended 'mistakes' became part of the arrangement of the song. Many session tracks on Pet Sounds allude to this.

Remember that article in Domenic Priore's Look, Listen, Vibrate, Smile that compared Beach Boys Fans to H.G.Wells' Time Machine characters? Is it not a reference to Michael Kemp's Pulse review on the Good Vibrations Box Set release in 1993 which rightly splits the casual fan as a morlock and the serious fan as an eloi type? The morlocks go for that surf, car and fun, fun, fun stuff while we eloi are into the Pet Sounds/SMiLE and post-1967 era more. Thank God that Love and Mercy is a gift for the eloi, looking past the one-dimensional biopics of the past that so generalised the Beach Boys as a band. I consider this film a gift to us serious fans, so I'm just happy it is what it is!

Just to close this thread, I'm back from my journey now, and did get to meet John Stivaktas in Sydney. I enjoyed that evening very much! Smiley Smilers should meet much more often.

Yes Micha, it was a wonderful night my friend and a true pleasure to meet you and discuss the Beach Boys! I sincerely hope you enjoyed your stay in Australia.

Don't forget the verses to Cabin Essence - great chord structure. Personally, there's too many two-chord stuff to rate SMiLE over Pet Sounds for me.

Of course, yes,  these verses also use the famous Gm7/D - Dm7/G opening chords in Surf's Up!

Yes, but these issues kept him from finishing all that stuff. I mean, after that first version of Wonderful, why rerecord it 4 times? And it wasn't due to technology, as the only completed GV proves.

After reading Keith Badman's chronology on this era, I stood amazed at how many sessions were done for these songs. I concur, Wonderful didn't need 4 version attempts. That obsession with perfection proved too much for Brian!