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683453 Posts in 27774 Topics by 4100 Members - Latest Member: bunny505 August 28, 2025, 11:39:33 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Conjecture 101 on: July 14, 2011, 06:37:10 PM
Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol. 

What do you mean "seized during litigation"?  The police/prosecutor can in some cases "seize" evidence, and I think a bankruptcy trustee can too.  But you're talking about a civil suit, and there's simply not a procedure to do this, at least not that I've ever heard of.  While it would be possible for a party to place a lien on certain assets (meaning the party could claim the right to receive payment from their sale), I don't see how the actual assets could be taken before a judgment is in place.

Simply following the line of reasoning that Capitol paid for the sessions( Not saying this supposition is right or wrong) it would seem to follow that they would only be seizing something that already belonged to them. So the supposition here is they seized tapes, that already belonged to them, and consequently filed and lost them for 44 years.
Since lots of people have been thru the Capitol vaults, where were they kept? Vee Jay's Vaults?

OK, but my point is that U.S. law does not work that way.  One can't simply "seize" something based on a claim that he's the rightful owner.  First there has to be a judgment by the court awarding the asset.

Jeff and bgas:  Re-reading my initial post, I obviously erred!  ("seizure" was the wrong idea here.  Sorry!)  Without getting too fancy, I simply meant to write that some of the tapes may've ended up in the hands of either legal team; if so, they may never have found their way back to the Beach Boys given the subsequent state of the project.  (Perhaps this is a suitable question for Nick Grillo or David Anderle...)
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE Conjecture 101 on: July 13, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
...Just as Brian used "Barnyard" to refer to what we've heard referred to as "The Barnyard Suite" ("Barnyard/The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine" and until relatively recently "Barnshine") since AT LEAST the release of the Priess book in 1979.    Likewise, "I'm In Great Shape" refers to the MEDLEY of "I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop"!  It was only because bootleggers were cataloging tracks/files/"songs" that these bits started to be thought of as individual segments beyond Brian's original recording sessions.  And just as he listed "Heroes And Villains" on the list, we know what he really meant was (something LIKE) "Heroes And Villains/Fluttertone horn/Sunny Down Snuff/Bicycle Rider/Etc."...

Phoenix:  Thank you for the clarification -- most valuable.  I do agree the bootleggers have definitely impacted the matter over the years -- to the point of creating Smile Fiction as it were.  (To that point, I recall a friend of mine playing me a Smile track called "Holidays" round about 1983.  After the piece ended, I retrieved my copy of Porgy & Bess (Miles Davis & Gil Evans) and re-played the same piece (Here Come de Honey Man, I think) -- and with that I was introduced to the wonderful world of Smile Bootleggers.)

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

Might seem plausible to you. Doesn't fly for me. For one thing, Capitol owned the tapes anyway. They paid for the sessions.

Mr. Doe:  Indeed, Capitol would want to drive this point in a court of law -- and what better way to do it than to offer physical evidence for the court's review; therefore, in preparing their case, it seems logical to me that the CAP legal team would want to possess examples of what exactly the Beach Boys were currently producing for their company...)

Information supplied to Holmes may also reveal why the “Do You Like Worms?” and “My Vega-Tables” illustrations exhibited no lyric fragments (do these two illustrations complement the lyrics eventually released?). 

In the case of "Worms", yes.

Thank you!
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / SMiLE Conjecture 101 on: July 12, 2011, 09:02:39 PM
Greetings!

Have enjoyed the proceedings out here for quite awhile and thought I’d throw in three topics for conversational fodder.  Of course, you’ll have to pardon my rookie ignorance if these have been previously discussed...  In any event, I’m eager to review comment and assorted horseplay from the knowledgable senior members out there in SMiLE-e-land.  Much thanks!

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

LP Song List.  Am perplexed by the inclusion of the two relatively “minor” entries -- “The Old Master Painter” and “I’m In Great Shape”.  That both pieces share equal billing along side the more familiar cornerstone compositions may suggest both were never fully realized based on much of the aural evidence to date.

It’s also interesting to note the discrepancies between Frank Holmes’ artwork and the infamous hand-written Smile LP list.  Surely the artwork preceded the latter:  While assigning a date to Holmes’ work is arguably anybody’s guess (MAY-OCT66), using author Keith Badman’s recording dates as a guide, the hand-written list could be reasonably pinned to NOV66.  Quite telling would be the song list, lyrics, and any other project information supplied to Mr. Holmes as this could possibly suggest the circumstances that fueled the subsequent song / song title changes (i.e., “Home on the Range” to “Cabin Essence”; and “My Vega-Tables -- The Elements” to “Vega-Tables”).  Information supplied to Holmes may also reveal why the “Do You Like Worms?” and “My Vega-Tables” illustrations exhibited no lyric fragments (do these two illustrations complement the lyrics eventually released?).  It would also be fascinating to discover when and by whom his artwork was approved for printing; and when and by whom the booklet was deemed acceptable for LP inclusion.

In any event, author Matt Bell’s essay on the 2004 release, Brian Wilson Presents Smile, seems to firmly indicate that an LP song order sequence was never finalized in its day and that noteworthy amounts of music and lyric were not completed -- as apparently confirmed by both Wilson and Van Dyke Parks.

Brian Wilson Compilation Reels.  According to author Keith Badman, Wilson assembled two comp reels, 17-18DEC66.  If this is so, then it would seem reasonable that the contents would have been the choice selections to date.
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