SS version--I have tried, but I just can't get into it.  I keep hearing descriptions like 'creepy', 'dark', etc.  That may have worked for Floyd, but not my boys!

"Creepy" and "dark" are two adjectives I associate with both Smile and Smiley Smile! Stuff like Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, Child Is Father Of The Man, the Water chant, some of the Vega-Tables bits, various Heroes and Villains chants, the April '67 Wonderful; those are very creepy in my opinion. I wrote a long expose here a while back about Brian's intent to "scare a lot of people" with the Smile music and I've never deviated from my feelings expressed there - that Smile was the expression of spirituality in his mind, and that the ensuing malevolence and, later, confused, fragmentary nature of the music was a result of his escalating personal problems. Smiley Smile was just the outcome.

I'd say you're half-right. The music does reflect the increasingly fragmentary thought-processes he was experiencing. But to say he intended to scare people is attributing a hostile nature to Brian that I just don't think fits at all.

Hey hey!

Ol' SMiLEY is back to talk about that Village Voice article!

You guys ARE talking about the Village Voice, right?

I think a vocal only of Dennis on You Are My Sunshine would be a breathtaking hidden track....if only it were possible.  I understand the only mix with his vocal was found on an acetate, right?

I hadn't realized that those vocals were only on an acetate, but oddly enough, knowing it gives me a lot of hope for un-booted stuff, because there you have a real life example of a missing lead vocal sourced only from an acetate.  In what universe would it make sense to delete that vocal off the multi-track?  But if that acetate had remained in the hands of, say, Bruce or Al or Van Dyke Park's ex wife, all we'd have now would be a sort of incomplete sounding instrumental take and a vague rumor that maybe Dennis was supposed to sing it...  It's a weirdly optimistic moment for me!

This is why so many of us are excited -- the acetates represent a possible cache of unheard SMiLE goodies like that.

The thing about the acetates is that some may have vocals that are missing from master tapes, or there could be any number of differences
in mixes or performance. By virtue of Van Dyke being around all  the time, he undoubtedly was in possession of more acetates than the rest
of the band, who were off on the road for big chunks of time.

In the event of duplicate acetates, some are going to be in better shape than others, which means they all should be reviewed. It's kind of
impossible to think they would not approach her at some point before this is over.

I've never understood why more of an effort wasn't made to obtain the acetates when working on BWPS in 2003. With the scope of the project and Van Dyke involved it seemed like they could've found a way to make it happen. It seems so obvious that it would have been helpful to hear them before writing new lyrics, etc.

Why would they need the acetates then?  They had the principals, and noone would really "know" if the words weren't the same as something 40 years past; and besides they weren't doing Smile 67 it was BWPS.

Well, yes but things like Child may have had lyrics but they don't seem to be on any extant mixes. There are several other bits that are missing lyrics, and an acetate could very well be the key to finding them.

It does seem like they are going out of their way to avoid her. I wonder why? I thought they were turning every stone looking for the missing pieces.

Wind Chimes is in a different key on Smiley, isn't it? If so, the Whispering Winds section wouldn't work with the earlier version.

I replaced the Wind Chimes fade with the same piece from SOT 17, and inserted Whispering Winds where the SOT 17 piece cuts out.  I've got to say it sounds pretty good.

I've been going through my old SMiLE mixes from the old days. I found two Wind Chimes -- one was pitch-shifted to accommodate the Whispering Winds bit, so I think they are differing keys.

Wind Chimes is in a different key on Smiley, isn't it? If so, the Whispering Winds section wouldn't work with the earlier version.

The 'absolute' cut-off date for SMiLE is a very interesting point for me.

Clearly, Brian informed Derek Taylor it was over, and then turned around and proceeded to work on Da Da and who knows what else? Since, Da Da was arguably part of The Elements, it most certainly belongs in the SMiLE session dates, IMO. In fact, I'm not opposed to including dates from way later in the SMiLE sessionography. Can't Wait Too Long and Cool Cool Water are in there as far as I'm concerned -- the key element is whether they were recording at the home studio or not.

These songs, in many peoples opinions, belong in the bonus tracks from Wild Honey, but they sound more at-home with SMiLE, IMO. What really matters is that Brian continued to tinker with SMiLE long after he 'scrapped' it.

The thing about the acetates is that some may have vocals that are missing from master tapes, or there could be any number of differences
in mixes or performance. By virtue of Van Dyke being around all  the time, he undoubtedly was in possession of more acetates than the rest
of the band, who were off on the road for big chunks of time.

In the event of duplicate acetates, some are going to be in better shape than others, which means they all should be reviewed. It's kind of
impossible to think they would not approach her at some point before this is over.

More to the subject --  calling the Heroes skit 'just a joke' is also showing bias, isn't it? I mean, it has all the hallmarks of having been done as a way of dealing with real tensions between Mike and Brian over the way everything had gone in the year since GV had come out. His rant bears the gist of his very real anger. Like the Sonny Love vs. Cassius Wilson skits, they are fun yes, but they are also 'paging Sigmund Freud' moments.

As to Dom -- I think at times he has needed the admonishment, "Your Kung Fu is good, but your emotions lead you." Fortunately, he seems to have got the lesson -- he frankly states that his insistence on Surf's Up being the finale of SMiLE was based on the template of A Day In The Life, and was therefore incorrectly assuming Surf's Up should similarly come at the end.

So, he has shown growth as a writer, and the ability to be objective or at least admit being wrong. It is, after all, OK to be wrong if one adjusts and corrects when better info comes in.

[/quote]

Welcome back Smiley, and agreed on the above!
[/quote]

Why thank ye! 

[Smile]

I think Brian told Taylor he'd had enough and was canning Smile then - being Brian - changed his mind while the band were touring Europe and had another crack. And then gave up. Twilight's last gleaming.

or, alternatively - because I damn well say so !

I think you are right, he couldn't stop tinkering with it even when he's supposedly canned it. Later, there was to be a ten-track version after Smiley (which is itself a rethinking of SMiLE), even much later on his conversations with Peter Reum showed he was still rejiggering it in his mind.

Hey all! SMiLEY has returned after about five years away.

In the aftermath of BWPS, I was not so much burned-out on Brian, and SMiLE, and the Beach Boys as I was just tired of talking about it, or arguing which was just as often the case, and I really got tired of political rants.

But, good old SMiLE has brought me back. From what I've seen in this thread, not much has changed - lots of opinions, and everybody demanding that SMiLE be done their way.  Haven't seen too much in the way of
politics yet, thankfully. Anyway, my .02 worth --

I couldn't give two hoots about the so-called running order on Diane Rovell's list, there was so much done after it was written that it is useful only in being a snapshot of what might have been in December '66, but the album continued to evolve after it, and I believe the running order could have been different on any given day before May 6, 1967. All I care about is that all the tracks be released as exhaustively as possible (multiple mixes, different versions -- I want them all!). Judging from Mark L's comments -- I have high hopes that is exactly what will happen. If Brian is happy with it, I see no reason anyone else should feel differently.

Anyway -- it's good to be back.

A Pet Sounds show has been announced in the US featuring Al!!! 

This should put the speculation to rest.

Smiley Van Dyke and Mike come from two different ends of the musical spectrum. I don't agree with you though. Mike and Van Dyke BOTH don't do much for me outside of their work with Brian. With Brian I enjoy them quite a bit. The remark made at sessions was lighthearted. I think he got mad at Love for welching on a plane rental.  I still don't think Parks should be so petty even if Mike was or is.

Well then, never read Peter Ames Carlin's new book or you'll read a whole raft of others talking down Mike a lot worse than Van ever did. For instance Stan Love, who is surprisingly harsh about Mike.

As to their musical merits, if Van had only done his first record and nothing else, he still would be leagues ahead of Mike's solo output. Let's not forget his work with Randy Newman, Phil Ochs, his soundtracks, his incredible Orange Crate Art (one of my favorites), his vast accomplishments as an arranger, and how about a little group called Little Feat that he produced!!!?

As lyricists they both are good, but very different. Mike IS a good lyricist, but I prefer that good old 'acid alliteration' over boy-girl any day of the week. Beyond that, Mike (or anybody to be fair) could only hope for a fraction of Van's talent.

Another thing -- Van's angry comments about Mike are nothing compared to Brian's, or Al's, but I would hardly call them petty. He feels, rightly or wrongly, that Mike drove SMiLE off course and ultimately helped sink it. I'm not trying to restart THE THREAD, but those are his feelings and he is entitled to them.

Brian left GV off Pet Sounds because, I assume, he felt it didn't fit in with the flow of the album. Sloop, however, DID fit in according to him. Pet Sounds' songs are of a piece! The over-all tone is melancholia. Sloop is a momentary diversion, a lighter mood, but still the subject is a bad trip. Plus it rises one key from Let's Go Away For Awhile, which GV does not do! How many ways can this be put?!!

Sloop John B is one of my all-time BB favorites and I put it right up there with GV and GOK in the greatness category.

Count me in as one who loves it right where it is, mainly because it belongs there. It comes after a song called Let's Go Away For Awhile and it's a song about a trip, albeit a bad one. Also the keys of each song on PS rise sequentially, if you take Sloop out it's an awkward transition to God Only Knows, as someone already pointed out.

Mark --

I was lucky enough to listen to your SMiLE mix on the equipment it was mastered with by Don Grossinger. THAT was an experience I'll never forget. Needless to say no amount of audiophile equipment could replicate those conditions, but hearing like that was just beautiful.

Seconded!!! 

Once again, Peter chimes in with the definitive post.

Peter, I look forward to the day when your book is published.

I'm pretty excited by this news! I'm one of the few that loves GIØMH unreservedly. I am willing to admit that it is the lowest-energy album Brian has done, but I see it as a sort-of solo Smiley Smile. An aquired taste, but more fulfilling with each listen. Yes there are some bum notes on it, but as a warts-n-all production it's one of the best, IMO.

This one may have a lot in common with that one -- a mixture of old and new compostitions, mostly Bri on vocals, etc. What will set this one apart, I'll predict, is the energy level. Post-BWPS Brian is rocking on everything he has come into contact with since those halycon days of 2004.

I DO wish Brian would make better use of his band. But, we'll get to hear them on the live versions!!!

(One note about Autotune and it's useage by Brian -- I'm not hearing the massive use of it that others are claiming to hear. My feeling is that it might be used on a note or two here and there, but it doesn't have to automatically process an entire track. That function can be disabled, allowing the user to just go for single notes. As we know from GIOMH, Brian isnt off all over the place, just flatting occasionally. Processing a whole track just to fix a couple of wonky notes would be overkill, and unneccessary.)

I think it would be cool if Al shows up. That, in itself, would be a real event.

The idea of a BB reunion is cool, but it makes sense that things need to cool off a bit further before that can happen. Don't forget that Mike is "on the outs" as he would put it, with Al even moreso than his now-waning estrangement with Brian. And it's hard to imagine Mike showing up at a Brian Wilson show and performing SMiLE songs. That just ain't gonna happen, ever, IMO.

Lennon could be a "jerk" too, but I don't think he felt that way. I have read two books on the Beatles in India and Mike comes off fairly well in both. Paul has never said a harsh world about Love. Van Dyke is someone who I used to consider a gentleman. The 2000 movie does not make Van Dyke look bad at all to me. I thought his character was one of the few really good parts. Very funny and witty. I don't like the 2000 movie much but Parks came out ok. His interviews after the movie and after Mike's Mojo interview sounded like bitter ramblings. He lost my respect becvause he damn well knows his conflicts with Brian helped kill Smile as much as anything with Mike. Mike has ALWAYS said nice things about Parks. So what if they had a disagreement in 1966 let it go. Van Dyke played on Kokomo and SIP so he must have had some kind of rapport with Mike at one point. I think Mike has done some dumb things but I consider Van Dyke to be someone who is vindictive and he let Brian down by not toughing it out with him.  Mike didn't write the damn movie either and in fact said outright that a few elements bothered him. Van Dyke is very talented, so is Love, but without Brian getting them where they are would they have made it on their own.

Van Dyke was upset by how Brian was depicted in the tvmovie. His relationship with Mike went south (again) after the SIP sessions, when Mike again criticized the 'over an over' lyric in a rather hostile manner. Van Dyke is hard on himself for not toughing it out with Brian on Smile, Mike has never changed his tune about Smile or anything for that matter. And he has said LOTS of dumb things. Van would have had a fine career in music without Brian, Mike wouldn't have.

Just getting the fact's straight.

I just dug out my Beach Boys 1993 boxset. I'm listening to the Pet Sounds tracks and they sound A THOUSAND TIMES BETTER than the 2001 mono mix and the 40th anniversary mono mix. So much better to my ears that I tracked down a new factory sealed 1990 Pet Sounds CD, with the three bonus tracks, and just ordered it. The remastered mono Pet Sounds sound so shrill with a good deal of static. The mono tracks on the box set have clarity and depth and are not shrill at all, and at the same time have plenty of punch. I hope these are the same mono mixes on the 1990 cd. It almost seems like the mono remasters are downgrading the sound.

Another thought, usually on these remastered versions, when they hit real high notes it sounds like the cd is clipping out. Like it can't handle that frequency. Sorry, I'm not an audiophile or a musician.

I've been listening to this quite intensely and I don't hear the things you are mentioning. What kind of system are you listening to?

Vosse?

It's hard for me to feel sad for them. Mike, because, well....he's Mike. Stan, mainly because he and a co-hort beat the living bejabbers out of Dennis and were proud they did it.

I'm reading the book at a leisurely pace, but that's because I'm enjoying it so much. Peter, it's a great job and I totally apologize for being skeptical a few months ago on the Smile Shop board.