Queries:

1. Why hadn't the 1966 Track Mix for CIFOTM been released previously? Is it a new discovery?

2. Is it Stephen Desper on the talkback (e.g. Meant For You)?

I can try to answer #1. Alan B., are you still reading? This is the IIGS I heard on one of Durrie's acetates. If this was the source, then I understand. There was a quick search for those acetates back in the day but they weren't found, so it was thought they were no longer in existence. Then in 2012 several acetates were discovered when her storage locker was cleaned out.  So that was obviously after the box set came out.

I listened to all of the acetates, and this IIGS was on one of the H&V acetates. It wasn't the only unique piece on that acetate, so I'm curious as to why the other pieces didn't make it out.

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

At any rate, as has been noted a couple of times in earlier posts, this feels like pretty conclusive proof that "I'm In Great Shape" started life as the bridge following the the first two verses in "H & V" (just like in the Humble Harv demo) and was eventually replaced by the similar sounding "Cantina" bridge.

Yes - it certainly seems to precede 'my children were raised' in the same way cantina did. Amazing that this edit has materialised. I'm fascinated by andy's description of it sounding fuller with similar instrumentation as false barnyard. Desperate to hear this!

Yes - the fuller instrumentation means that either this section was rerecorded with different instrumentation after the October session that produced the box set version OR Brian held a session to overdub over the box set track.  Either way I assume this was done at a session booked as Heroes and Villains - we're missing a fair amount of tapes for Heroes sessions listed in the Smile Sessions booklet in November and December.  Too bad there aren't dates on the acetates!  Andy does the acetate start with IIGS - what precedes it?  In other words is it edited in to the Heroes verses as Brian played it on the HumblenHarv demo in November, or differently?

I wish I could remember where it started. IIGS was either at the beginning of the acetate or just the start of a new fragment (meaning nothing was edited in beforehand).

In two clearly spliced edits (speaking of which, I can't remember if IIGS had the tape distortion effect the earlier takes had, but if it did it was much, much more subtle), IGGS went directly into the harpsichord playing that's underneath "my children were raised, you know they...",

Can you describe these "two clearly spliced edits", please? I don't know how to imagine these.

What I mean is that some acetates have song fragments that are 3 or 4 seconds apart.

The IIGS/My Children/3 Score piece was definitely edited together, before making it to acetate (I'd imagine).

I thought I heard rumors that TTGA was an early inclusion for the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE tour. Maybe it was Peter Reum who confirmed that, but I cannot remember.

Otherwise, it's musically, lyrically and thematically different from SMiLE, and I really don't hear the connection.

It seems strange that Van would have an acetate of this as he wasn't working with Brian at this time-although he was friends with Danny who may have given it to him.

Could the alternate Wind chimes be the fabled mix Brian played repeatedly for Vosse as he described in his Fusion interview?  The one thing he mentioned that stood out was a different mix on the vocals in the second section, they faded in and out to give a percussion like effect.

I didn't notice anything special about WindChimes.

I thought I heard rumors that TTGA was an early inclusion for the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE tour. Maybe it was Peter Reum who confirmed that, but I cannot remember.

Otherwise, it's musically, lyrically and thematically different from SMiLE, and I really don't hear the connection.

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).

I didn't listen to it. In fact I don't recall seeing it, which is kind of weird.

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

It just ended, I think.

Great stuff, DonnyL. Thanks for the stories/links! Btw, you're a good guesser!

So any thoughts on when these acetates date from?

I was going to say late '66, but the "Time To Get Alone" track doesn't fit that timescale unless that was given to Van later. For the other songs though, October / November '66 would be my guess. Seeing as most of the H&V we have comes from post January '67, we could have some very exciting documents here from the most active period of Smile sessions.

Also, it mentions on the sale info, but I can't remember if Andy mentioned this, an alternate verse to Cabinessence. (I think by 20 /20 version they mean the version we all know, the only version) So this could be an actual alternate version of the verse track?

I'm guessing the alternate version of Wind Chimes is the August '66 version.

I wish that was the case for Cabin Essence. I was most looking forward to hearing the CE acetates, followed by Worms, in the hopes of something new (but hey, what I heard ended up being better!).

CE, if I remember correctly, was very similar to one of the Secret Smile tracks. It's verse instrumental with vocal doings/Who Ran the Iron Horse/verse instrumental/Who Ran the Iron Horse/Grand Coulee. The only thing that was different to me was possibly the vocal mix on Grand Coulee.

One other sort of interesting thing..I seem to remember a piece of CE being on one of the other acetates..I can't remember if it was the Worms or H&V acetate.

As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Hey, you know what i still listen to from time to time? Right As Rain! All 15 seconds of it, haa 

Ha! I still listen to your track as well!

DonnyL, it's a small world! I'd love to hear more stories if you have them.

So Andy, how did your listening session with these acetates transpire?  Did you go with Durrie to her storage facility in Arizona and pick them up or did you go over to her house and put them on a stereo system or did she let you borrow them temporarily to listen to them at your house? Where did you listen to them? And to your knowledge, has Alan Boyd and/or Mark Linette heard these acetates first hand?

And I think you said that something (one of the acetates or a tape) surfaced after September and it was too late to include it on the Smile release? Did I read that right?

I heard them here in L.A. at a third party's house. And as of yesterday morning, the acetates had yet to be heard by the people who should hear them.

[many recordings]

I, like  everyone else am very curious and would like to hear the recordings for myself. I have heard at least 3 different cuts of the "hawaii chant": vigotone 3 LP set, UM17, Official and also a couple of mixes of the slide guitar part for that. Have to admit its not my very favorite bit of SMiLE and I was also disillusioned to find out kinneywhakpoola was just "made up".     

In this mix of Worms, you can't even hear the "slide guitar" during the chant...not even as a faint bleed-through like you hear on the Good Vibrations 30 Years boxset version of Worms!

The IGGS discs sounds like the only one with something that could be unique.?

And not to belittle anyone, I'm sure we all would agree that with all the many recordings official and bootleg out and about, only someone with a great deal of knowledge and experience of the SMiLE sessions is truly qualified to make the determination by "ear and memory" alone.

As for myself, I know am I am not THAT good. I would have to have at hand a music player with files of all the other known mixes and make a comparative analysis of each track!

Unfortunately, I've listened to the SMiLE pieces in my possession too many times, so I know instantly if I'm listening to something I've heard, something I've heard but a slightly different mix, or something completely new.

I'm confident the IIGS-H&V edits aren't well-circulated, judging by the reactions of the people I told, and I'd be somewhat surprised if that IIGS wasn't new. The weird thing is that it's so different from the other versions out there, so why hasn't it popped up anywhere before? If anything, it's only solidified my hope that more unheard stuff is out there. I'm assuming that members Vosse Posse might be in possession of some unique pieces but who knows. Now hopefully other stuff starts popping up.

My best guess in quality comparison is some of the CIFOTM acetates. Listenable, but not necessarily release-level quality (whatever that term means, because I've heard worse quality stuff on official releases).

Hi Andy, these CITFOTM acetates that you keep referring to... I'm not sure if I'm familiar with them. Do they include any vocals that didn't make it on the box set?

Like the beginning of this one but with a lot more crackles and pops. ->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEcP_NH1K8I

Man oh man, I hope these make it out there somehow. Especially the IIGS mix you've described. I'd love to hear it, even if lower quality.

Was one of the DYLW mixes that you heard anything like this?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ncpuef

Thanks for sharing. It's very similar to that one! The kick drum is just as prominent but the mix is different (very quiet harpsichord) and there was no lead vocal over some/most of it. My guess is that the Durrie acetate mix, then, was made sometime around 1/5/67 because of its similarity to this one.

And who is andy, and how is he hearing these things? 

Just an incredibly lucky BB fan with an "it's a small world" type connection to the acetates and great timing. There are many people who've devoted more time (even lives) to the BB that deserved to hear these before I did.

Andy, as an aside from the ongoing debate here, as one who's heard them, what would you say the sound quality of these 'new' acetates is like ? Listenable or borderline ? Historically, an acetate is good for maybe 20-30 spins before bad things start to happen and the recorded history would seem to indicate that Brian played the crap out of them... of course, VDP may not have but as has been pointed out, in the accepted grading terms, G equates to well-used bordering on banged up.

I thought they were listenable, but fingers crossed, someone with more expertise (unless the seller frequents this board) can listen to these acetates in the very near future (next week or so) and say what the quality is. My best guess in quality comparison is some of the CIFOTM acetates. Listenable, but not necessarily release-level quality (whatever that term means, because I've heard worse quality stuff on official releases).

FWIW, aeijtzsche and I were roommates while he was working with Alan B. Alan's the first person I called after hearing these acetates, and without revealing who the acetates came from, went into detail about what was on them. This was right before his lecture, and I can't speak for Alan, but my guess is the "more pieces of SMiLE found" quote from that Alan lecture thread is probably referencing these acetates (I heard the acetates just a couple of weeks before that lecture: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14354.0.html).

^ She mentioned the acetates in the early 2000s, which made the rounds on the internet (i can't find a link right now) and Donny just said in this thread that he talked to her about them in the '90s when he knew her personally. She did not just recently remember that she had them when she was approached for TSS.  

Waiting for Andy to say whatever he's gonna say about these. Is this the Andy from the Smile Shop/the early days of this board?

Yep! Good to see you still around, EM. It's been a while..I feel...older. Here's your link from Durrie: http://troun.tripod.com/durrie.html *EDIT* Donny L beat me to it! That's your interview?! So cool! I remember reading that in 2000, I think, and later referencing that interview for years, repeatedly begging my sources to pass along the message to Durrie that people would pay to dig through her storage and get these.

I wish I could've written more yesterday but the timing isn't great.

Long story short: I had a chance to listen to the acetates back in September. I happily volunteered to listen to them as I'd be able to say whether or not there was revelatory material on them. As you can imagine, it was completely surreal. Even just looking at the acetates was crazy. Here was a group of acetates that hadn't been touched in years, with hand-written labels, made from torn up pieces of paper, scotch-taped to each acetate to identify its contents. I'm sure someone can confirm whose handwriting is on these labels.

We went through the first two or three acetates and nothing was groundbreaking. In general, over half of them sounded like unique mixes of already bootlegged material, but it could've been the result of listening off of an acetate.

Anyway, we get to one of the acetates labeled "H&V". At some point, a completely new version of I'm In Great Shape starts playing. It was radically different from the versions in circulation (of which there is one with harp and saxophone, one with celeste, and one with heavy piano if I remember correctly)! This version of IIGS has more heavy instrumentation, but has the IIGS bassline. There was definitely percussion, maybe snares and other various pieces. It's pretty similar to the false barnyard instrumentation, and my guess is that it's on disc 1 of the link at the beginning of this thread (and is mislabeled, but I guess I can see how the two got confused).

At this point I thought "wow, amazing!", but then something really interesting happened! In two clearly spliced edits (speaking of which, I can't remember if IIGS had the tape distortion effect the earlier takes had, but if it did it was much, much more subtle), IGGS went directly into the harpsichord playing that's underneath "my children were raised, you know they...", from the official H&V single, but with the arrangement from H&V part 1 from the SS/WH twofer that goes into "healthy wealthy and OFTEN wise" (all with no vocals), then directly into the full instrumental arrangement behind "three score and five", and that then played out until the finish of the acetate. I cannot remember if the three score and five vocals were on top of the section or not...it all happened so fast and I was just caught off guard. Either way, it's the first time I'd heard that arrangement of those pieces, and it came straight from the men. So clearly this was the highlight to me.

The second biggest highlight for me came from Do You Like Worms. Maybe this piece is out there so forgive me for not having heard it. One of the mixes of Bicycle Rider on an acetate was the kick drum, and the oooga cha vocals, with very light harpsichord in the mix. It was extremely rhythmic and very punchy. It was nothing mindblowing, like hearing Ribbon of Concrete being sung would have been, but it just sounded amazing.

There is also a completely new/original keenywokapula vocal take on one of the DYLWs with a different mix. Not mindblowingly new, but mindblowingly great to listen to.

Like I said earlier, I think there were several unique mixes of previously heard stuff, but outside of the new IIGS and the edits, I didn't notice anything else that was revelatory.

As to the quality...well, they're old acetates that have been sitting in a storage facility in Arizona for years, along with boxes of clothes, photos, records, etc. They were very crackly and poppy, probably like some of the lower quality CIFOTM acetate recordings that are floating around. I'm no record expert, but maybe someone who is can say whether or not the quality could be improved by a very good cleaning. The acetates were dusty.

I'd tried to reference it in the Alan Boyd lecture thread, but I don't think these new pieces would make an official release due to their quality, and the discrepancy between the amount of work it'd take to get these cleared for a release versus the lack of interest from general Beach Boy fans for these tracks (I say general, but that definitely doesn't apply to people on this site, like me, who'd pay hundreds/thousands to hear any new SMiLE-related fragments).

I really hope these acetates wind up in the hands of the right people, and get catalogue/archived/thrown into the history bin. I think they're extremely valuable pieces and I'm glad they finally came out, 13 or so years later (and really 28 years or longer since AGD asked about them in '85). Even moreso, I hope everyone gets a chance to hear them soon!

Finally, here are a couple of pics I took with my phone..if only I'd gotten audio recordings as well! Notice you'll see the acetate with the warp on it.

*EDIT* You can see much bigger versions of the pictures below directly on flickr..for some reason I can't make them bigger on here.


2012-09-12_13-10-10_461


2012-09-12_13-11-10_461


2012-09-12_13-10-42_183


2012-09-12_13-10-37_66

So you're saying  that Alan Boyd was being deliberately misleading in his lecture ?

No, I think you misread/misheard what Alan said.

I was informed - by a highly reliable source - that the Parks acetates were auditioned by the box compilers/producers and that nothing of any use or importance was discovered. Given the G rating, I'd guess that means they were next to unlistenable.

Well, your source is wrong.

Two things. I think Guitarfool alluded to one.

1. Each time you play an acetate, it degrades it. I read somewhere awhile back how many times you can get away with it before the sound quality becomes almost unbearable to listen to, or the surface noise inevitably renders the audio unlistenable. They snap, crackle, and pop like Rice Crispies. Plus, the plastic deteriorates and becomes real brittle. I'd be scared to touch one of them. I wonder how these were stored all these years.

2. I'm sure the Smile box compilers listened to these. Don't you think if there was something valuable (or different) out there than what's on demos and bootlegs already, they would have use it? So it seems to me, those with a halfway decent collection of Smile boots has already heard the contents of these acetates.

1. In a storage unit, like Public Storage. They're pretty crackly, one of them has a nasty warp but it's at the edge of the acetate and not over any of the "music".

2. They didn't. These popped up in September. I tried to reference it in the Alan Boyd lectures thread. Most of the contents on the acetates have been heard but there are three to four pieces that were completely new to my ears. And one of the acetate descriptions is mislabeled..I'll explain later.

*edit*-There is a different version of IIGS, different instrumentation, different tempo than the others that have been bootlegged. And a really cool chorus of Worms (that may be out there, but I hadn't heard it).

What are the chances that this is a hoax?  What is the reputation of this seller?

100% not a hoax. I've listened to them, even took better pictures of the acetates than the ones listed on this guy's site.

Question...It's been speculated for years what exactly is on those discs, so after looking over the descriptions is there anything there which either does not appear on the Smile box set or has not appeared elsewhere up to this point?

There is stuff on these that I've never heard and is definitely not on the Smile Box. Maybe 3 or 4 fragments were completely new to me.

I've listened to them. I hope to have a detailed write-up of them later.

The music's not cleared for DVD or digital release, and as things currently stand, there's 1-2% chance it will come out in those mediums.

Stephen, can you explain what you mean by animal magnetism?

sdj, tr and ph:

There are many reasons I don't think it would come out.

One, there may be some clearance issues that would prevent a new SMiLE piece from coming out. This may be speculation, but it took a lot of navigation between the parties to get the box out. That may be too much to re-navigate for one or two tracks (and the resources used to navigate may no longer be there). Think about how long it took just to get these stereo re-releases out. The tunes, by all accounts, had been completed some time ago and the perfect time to re-release would've been on the 50th Ann, not a year later.

Two, what is revelatory to me and you may not be revelatory to Capitol/Brother Records, who has a finite number of releases on its schedule and wouldn't see one or two tracks as enough to move the needle on a new release. Think about how much "high demand" stuff is in the vaults collecting dust. I know I'd pay a pretty penny to see Live Again, California Feelin' and multiple others.

Three, it hasn't been said what was discovered or anything about its quality. It could be a small fragment, a different edit, etc. It could be in terrible quality and unreleasable. The likelihood of something being discovered from a missing tape seems less likely than the discovery of an old acetate or something like that.

Speaking of sources, was it confirmed that Alan/Mark reviewed the DP acetates and other rumored sources mentioned in Mikie's post? I'd guess there's stuff that wasn't since new stuff is being found.