There's a fantastic cocktail bar in Leeds in the UK - it's full of B&W photos of rock and pop stars, the largest of which is Brian in his bathrobe, strolling down the aisle of the Radiant Radish. Damn, wish i could remember the name of the bar, it'll come to me...

For those who haven't seen this great doc it's available (worldwide i think) to watch on BBC iplayer.

I thought it was a fantastic doc, very well balanced - he was painted as neither saint nor sinner; just as a very talented and kind, but damaged man.
I completely agreed with the comment made in the film re if Brian had done River Song everyone would've been screaming its praise. Very accurate indeed! It remains light years ahead of anything Brian (or any other member) was doing at the time - and that goes for everything on Love You.

The doc also reminded me of something that always bothers me - whenever Brian talks about SMiLE or Pet Sounds, he always says, the Beach Boys hated it, they didn't support me, they said it was too weird etc etc. He never ever bothers to mention that, in fact, both Carl and in particular Dennis were always supportive of everything he did during this period. There's mountains of evidence to support this, yet Brian never bothers to mention that his brothers did in fact support him - he just slings em in with the rest of the group. I'm sure it's not intentional - we all know Brian is a damn good guy - but it'd be nice if he'd not generalise so much, and in doing so sideline his brothers.
(I know, before anyone says it, that Brian's Brian, he doesn't know what he's saying half the time, and so on).

All you Tears-In-The-Morning-haters should at least be glad that Bruce changed his original lyrics, which were even more cringe-worthy. As I recall, he originally had one line that said, "And I don't need no nepenthe..." I was gonna say there's probably a good reason you can't name another song which contains the word "nepenthe," but a quick look at Wikipedia shows that it HAS been used a couple of times. Still, I have to wonder how the other BBs felt about that one.

Meh, at least you can't accuse his lyrics (and that line) of being overly generic or anything.

Agreed. In fact, that sounds like a pretty cool line. It'd sure stand out amongst the schmaltz.

Do It Again vs It's OK?? Why not start a thread God Only Knows vs Winds of Change?

Don't get me wrong, i quite like It's OK. Compared to most of the other 15 BO material it's great, it's pretty catchy but not insanely so, and the fade is nice. But Do It Again is infinitely better - amazing production, wildly inventive (that fantastic pounding opening, the constant changes in tone throughout, the SMiLE fx at the fade), much better lyrics; just an all round far superior song.

"Kona Coast"! Top that one for guilty listening pleasure! 

Kona Coast is actually quite awesome. In fact, I've really started to dig MIU, except for the covers and "Winds of Change". If only they had put "Our Team" on there instead...

 I love love LOVE Our Team. There's a few songs on MIU that i know are awful, but i like 'em. I really like that fade at the end of Hey Little Tomboy (or am i just relieved it's ending - i'm not sure?) and i like Pitter Patter, even if it's odd to hear grown men singing about the rain in the style of mentally-challenged infants. I really like that little guitar sound that kicks in at the end.
 

I was thinking about this the other day... what if you made Sunflower a more Brian-centric album? It would look something like this:
This Whole World
Add Some Music
All I Wanna Do
Good Time
Take a Load Off Your Feet
At My Window
Loop De Loop
Our Sweet Love
Soulful Old Man Sunshine
When Girls Get Together
Cool, Cool Water

I didn't put "I Just Got My Pay" or "Games Two Can Play" on the list because the production values were too low compared to the rest of the material. This material makes his Love You persona seem like a natural extension of where he was at in '69/'70. The only difference is that the production values were higher back then.

 Thank God they didn't go with a more Brian-centric approach, if that line-up is anything to go by! Ditching Slip On Through and It's About Time in favour of Loop de Loop and Take a Load...? Bad move. Dennis's Lady and San Miguel were considered for inclusion on the album and i think they'd have notched the quality up a peg or two if they had.
 I love this album a lot! It's not perfect - the aforementioned Dennis tracks would've fitted in better than Bruce's songs (I don't hate Tears quite as much as some fans do, but it's certainly not a favourite and, to me, it really jars on the album - it just doesn't fit, it sounds out of place. (Nice accordion though).
 I like songs like Deidre and At my Window, but at a time when the band were struggling for hipness these kinda tracks didn't help. I've always thought it would've been nice if Sunflower had been a double album, with the band consentrating on Brian's better quality recent songs and Dennis's songs, as he was really coming into his own at this time. Songs like Sound of Free and celebrate the News deserved a bigger audience than they achieved.
 How's this? (I know, i know, it'd never ever have happened, but hey, good lineup...)

SIDE ONE
1. Slip on through
2. This whole world
3. Add some music...
4. Got to Know the Woman
5. San miguel
6. I'm going your way
 
SIDE TWO
1. The lord's prayer
2. Soulful old man sunshine
3. Mona Kanua
4. Susie cincinatti
5. Deidre
6. It's about Time

SIDE THREE
1. Celebrate the news
2. Breakaway
3. All i wanna do
4. Forever
5. Our sweet love

SIDE FOUR
1. Games two can play
2. Sound of Free
3. Over the waves
4. Lady
5. At my window
6. Cool, cool water

But really, Love You - yeh, The Night Was So Young is very nice, but not a classic

Good song, but I wouldn't say it's even the best on the album.

but the whole album sounds dated

Hr rm, don't know about this. Name some other albums from around this time that even sound remotely similar.

and the lyrics are almost all awful - no, not kooky and enduring, weird and disturbing. This is the guy who wrote Til I Die. And now here he is singing about snogging roller skating children and rhyming groovy with movie. When Dennis croons about patting some apparent infant and/or girlfriend's butt - is that anything other than extremely bizarre?

I never understood these claims. Both totally innocent songs that people take too literally. He isn't talking about friggin' a literal child that roller skates, "child" is a term of endearment that I've heard used several times outside of this. He's not talking about pervertedly touching an infant's ass. Songs like these, "Hey Little Tomboy" etc. come from a totally innocent place. And when I say innocent, I mean innocent and harmless, not innocent as in a person doesn't know better.

I don't wanna use the lame, "It's not dirty, you just have a dirty mind," argument, but...

Maybe its just me, but i don't find this album cute and enduring and so on, as many other BB fans seem too. I find it sad and depressing. I don't find Brian writing in this infantile way appealing at all - the occasional good tune only enthasising what had been lost by this stage.

I don't know, though. It was coming from a sincere place, I don't think his mind had degenerated and that's why the lyrics are the way they are. They're very, very Brian, I think. Just as Brian as, say, "Til I Die", just a very different side.

To each his own, though. A few of these claims just didn't sit right with me, though.

Yeh, i see some of your points. I don't hate Love You, it just baffles me though when BB fans constantly sing its praises. For the record, i do indeed have a very dirty mind, but that doesn't change the fact that the lyrics to Roller skating child and I wanna pick you up are creepy, whether its unintentinal creepiness or not.
And i agree 100% with the post where the guy said I like the songs but the lyrics get in the way. It doesn't matter how loudly i turn the volume up on Mona, those lyrics - aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!
(I don't get the Smiley Smile/Love You comparison though - the music on Smiley (my all time 2nd favourite BB album) is light years ahead of Love You.)

'Roller skating child'? Seriously? Nice tune but those lyrics!! Creepy in the extreme. I'd say Johnny Carson shoulda been on. It represents Love You better than any other track - very weird; crazy lyrics; catchy tune.

Re earlier posts: Agreed, All I Wanna Do is an amazing track. I'd like to have seen Sunflower represented thus: Slip on through, This whole world, All I wanna do, Forever, Cool cool water. Although i realise Add some music... couldn't really be missed off (although personally i agree with the author of 'Dumb Angel' that it sounds 'like a Coke commercial').

Wouldn't it be nice to live again should've been on for sure (surely its more worthy of an audience and more appealing to fans than I just got my pay (aka a rehashed Dressed up for school) or HELP is on its way. Also, Carry Me Home would've been very welcome indeed, though i'm sure Mike would've vetoed its inclusion immediately (left-wing AND by Dennis!).

You were meant to pick your own ten, not complain about other people's choices. And yeh, Slip on Through's one of the best Sunflower tracks by some distance. It's About Time is also great, though i agree with you re All I Wanna Do, damn good tune! But u aren't really counting Good Vibrations as a 'Smiley Smile track' there are u? I mean, yeh it was on the album, but it wasn't from the SS sessions and Brian, allegedly, didn't even want it on Smiley. The single Heroes & Villians, plus With Me Tonight, do not a fair representation of an album make. And er yeh, there was a lot of Pet Sounds material on there, and I think, in my personal opinion which is what this is, that Don't Talk shoulda been amongst said material.

Apologies if you were affronted but it is a message board.
I think you would agree that She's Going Bald doesn't fit into any of the criteria that AGD mentioned. Don't Talk would have been a fair enough inclusion but any song from Pet Sounds that was omitted would have been hard done by.
 

Not affronted, just baffled as to how my asking for people to choose their own personal top ten tracks that were excluded from GV instead resulting in a load of nit-picking re my own choices. I was just like Err how does that answer my question?? I'm not neccasarily gonna agree with everyone elses choices either but i wanna hear 'em.
 Yeh i know there was a criteria re what went on and what didn't but my question, entirely hypethetical, was If you could include any ten BB tracks that weren't included which would u pick and why.
(And re the Criteria - well, there's lots of album tracks featured on the boxset that don't fit said criteria. My point, which i think still stands, is that Smiley Smile was, and remains, entirely unrepresented when it comes to compilations, best ofs, boxsets, etc. whioch is ridiculous considering how much it is loved by fans.)

If only they'd ended with We're Together Again - which would have perfectly brought the whole friendship theme from the opening two tracks back again for the close - instead of with Transdental Meditation than i'd have given this album a 5. As it is, a very healthy 4.
Be Here In The Mornin' my fave track - experimental, melodic, witty, fantastic track. I also love Little Bird and Busy Doin' Nothin'. And some great instrumentals - Diamond Head takes some really interesting and weird routes.
In my top ten, if not my top five.

1. Lonely Sea (A fantastic, gorgeous early Brian ballad, very under-rated

I think it's been mentioned recently on the board that it's believed that Gary Usher wrote most of this one.

2. Don't Talk (One the best Pet Sounds tracks, beautiful song)

They included a lot of songs from Pet Sounds to be fair and couldn't really please everyone there.

3. Mrs O'Leary's Cow (The most legendary of all the SMiLE tracks - perhaps considered a bit too much for the casual listener??)

I may well be wrong but I can't think that Capitol wouldn't have wanted this included. Brian's decision maybe?

4. She's Goin' Bald (One of my very favourite Smiley Smile tracks, as usual this album was completely undervalued))

They included 3 from that album I think and also the superior versions of several Smile songs. I think that was certainly enough.

8. Slip On Through (It's widely acknoledged Dennis ruled on Sunflower - so why does he only get the single track (Forever)? This amazing opener is probably the best cut on the album, and it's exclusion is a sign of the blatant Brian favourtism that persists even when Brian isn't at the top of his game.)

Is it? Obviously Forever is considered to be a classic but I don't think Dennis' other contributions are considered to be better than the likes of This Whole World, All I Wanna Do, Cool Cool Water etc. Personally I wouldn't rank Sllip on Through as one of my favourites from that LP.

10. My Diane (By some distance the best MIU track - so why Al's lame Come Go With Me?)

It was a top-20 hit. Simply as that.

I agree about I Just Got My Pay though.

You were meant to pick your own ten, not complain about other people's choices. And yeh, Slip on Through's one of the best Sunflower tracks by some distance. It's About Time is also great, though i agree with you re All I Wanna Do, damn good tune! But u aren't really counting Good Vibrations as a 'Smiley Smile track' there are u? I mean, yeh it was on the album, but it wasn't from the SS sessions and Brian, allegedly, didn't even want it on Smiley. The single Heroes & Villians, plus With Me Tonight, do not a fair representation of an album make. And er yeh, there was a lot of Pet Sounds material on there, and I think, in my personal opinion which is what this is, that Don't Talk shoulda been amongst said material.

Apologises if this topic has been discussed previously.

The GV Boxset is of course great, but i felt there were a number of songs that didn't really deserve to be on there, and a healthy portion of ones that certainly did - but weren't.

So 10 (and please stick to 10) tracks that you would've like to have seen included on the boxset, and why they deserved to be there. Here's mine:

1. Lonely Sea (A fantastic, gorgeous early Brian ballad, very under-rated)
2. Don't Talk (One the best Pet Sounds tracks, beautiful song)
3. Mrs O'Leary's Cow (The most legendary of all the SMiLE tracks - perhaps considered a bit too much for the casual listener??)
4. She's Goin' Bald (One of my very favourite Smiley Smile tracks, as usual this album was completely undervalued)
5. Country Air (Why does Wild Honey only get three tracks? It's a superb album, and this is one of it's best tracks)
6. Be Here In The Mornin' (Fantastic cut from Friends. Meant For You is so short, surely there was room for one more from this much-loved album?)
7. Mona Kanua (Great Dennis instrumental from the 20/20 period. More deserving of an official release than the likes of I Just Got My Pay)
8. Slip On Through (It's widely acknoledged Dennis ruled on Sunflower - so why does he only get the single track (Forever)? This amazing opener is probably the best cut on the album, and it's exclusion is a sign of the blatant Brian favourtism that persists even when Brian isn't at the top of his game.
9. Feel Flows (Spectacular track. Absolutely amazing, very ahead of it's time!)
10. My Diane (By some distance the best MIU track - so why Al's lame Come Go With Me?)

Despite starting this thread and therefore welcoming the controversial opinions of my fellow boardmembers, i must disagree, Mr Tom/Stuart

Part of the albums charm is that it's extremely bizarre, childlike and slightly unsettling at times. And the synth/incredible basic drumming/good songcraft lurking underneath the croaky voices and mad production is part of the charm.

I also like the mental image of Brian wandering into the studio each day and laying down the tracks to 'Love You' by himself too.

Hmmm, I dunno. I want to feel that way about Love You, but i just find it depressing... I certainly never ever use anything from Love You when i'm introducing the lesser known BB's work to friends, and when i have they've been like What's happened here...?? I know there's the whole charming image of Brian at work on Love You, but in terms of just the music, its a real big big step backwards from almost everything that'd come before.

I'd still say though that CATP is an essential purchase, even for the casual fan. Those last three tracks - heaven!

Still, i wonder why release such a short album? They had the material.

ANYTHING AT ALL FROM LOVE YOU. This album gets wildly over-rated by fans (and Brian himself). Presumably coz its nice that, following 15 Crap Ones (where it'd seemed Brian had completely lost it), it was nice to discover Brian could actually still write a decent tune. And coming between two of the worst albums of their career, that probably helped its cause too (in much the same way the patchy LA Light Album seems far better than it largely is due to the relief felt that it wasn't another MIU).
 But really, Love You - yeh, The Night Was So Young is very nice, but not a classic; Honkin' Down The HIghway is a rockin' tune; Johnny Carson has a crazy, original melody, and wacky lyrics - but the whole album sounds dated, its consistently badly sung and produced, and the lyrics are almost all awful - no, not kooky and enduring, weird and disturbing. This is the guy who wrote Til I Die. And now here he is singing about snogging roller skating children and rhyming groovy with movie. When Dennis croons about patting some apparent infant and/or girlfriend's butt - is that anything other than extremely bizarre? And the fact that he's singing this over a fairly catchy tune doesn't help matters...
 Maybe its just me, but i don't find this album cute and enduring and so on, as many other BB fans seem too. I find it sad and depressing. I don't find Brian writing in this infantile way appealing at all - the occasional good tune only enthasising what had been lost by this stage. The album is certainly worse than anything pre-15 Big Ones ('novelty' albums such as Stack o Tracks and Party aside).

 So there you go - overrated BB songs? Here's an album's worth.

Yeh, whatever the reasons for pairing the two albums it was a strange decision. Surf's Up had been such a success - had the record company lost confidence in the band that quickly? Perhaps its because CATP was just so damn short. I mean, it's not actually that much longer than Surf's Up, and is actually longer than Wild Honey or Friends, but there's no getting over the fact that all you get is eight tracks - eight??! And from a band with so many great unreleased tunes, many of them recent (in particular from dennis - imagine a ten track CATP with Barbara and Wouldnt it be Nice to Live Again...)

No no no. As always, its the original non-screwed about with, non-digitally remastered version that's the best. Leave 'em alone!! That's my opinion...

What both surprises me and doesn't surprise me is how f-ing difficult it is for the band & Capitol to just RELEASE A BOX SET OF THIS STUFF already.

Can you imagine a company with a bajillion people pounding on the door outside begging to buy a product if they would simply just make it?  Capitol and the band have rooms and vaults full of this stuff just sitting there.

Maybe in a way this fittingly sums up the screwed up and crossed image of the Beach Boys for the last 25 (+/- ?) years.

So frustrating.

Never has a truer word been spoken!

Aside from the nice fade, i don't think the mix on Hawthorne of Time to Get Alone is anywhere near as nice as the official 20/20 version. And i love the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful. Perhaps Brian thinks the album deserves a break, which it does. But again, just one guys opinion...
Anyway, i really like this Classics album, it's a great selection of songs. I'd never, until the issue was raised here, doubted Brian had picked the tracks. Although it quite odd that, considering how much he bangs on about how Love You is the most underated BB album all the time (something with which I strongly disagree), he didn't pick a song from that album.
Funky Pretty is a great track - maybe, while listening back through their albums, he was reminded of how great it is (but At My Window? A nice track, but like the 9th or 10th best song on Sunflower).
It's a little disapointing that every single selection is primarily a Brian song - it would've been nice for him to have acknoleged his brothers songwriting talents also, even if it had just meant him opting for the predictable Forever. One of Carl's Surf's Up tracks would have been more than worthy of inclusion.

I can honestly say I would be the happiest human being on the face of the planet if they were to release a SMiLE boxset. I hope we'd get a lot of sessions and unreleased material, and not just Here's windchimes in Mono and now here it is in Stereo and now here it is in Mono again etc.

Mark Radcliffe is a fantastic DJ, very funny and entertaining and with great taste in music. It's sure to be a good doc. Have read some very positive reviews in the better-quality british press.

Why didn't Brian just release SMiLE as a solo record? Because, as we discovered in 2004, it'd be nowhere near as good without the rest of the Beach Boys vocal contributions...

I like you. A lot.

Thanks!

Why didn't Brian just release SMiLE as a solo record? Because, as we discovered in 2004, it'd be nowhere near as good without the rest of the Beach Boys vocal contributions...

To quote Morrisey, when asked to take part in Live Aid: 'Do we really have to be made to suffer as much as those we're trying to help?'
The original version of We Are The World was horrendous. I haven't yet heard the remake, although if Simon Cowell's Haiti fund-raising single is anything to go by - a breathtakingly hideous cover of Everybody Hurts, featuring Leona Lewis doing her vocal gymnastics schtick - it'll make me want to vomit myself inside out!
I know it's for a good cause but if I want to give money to the people suffering in Haiti then i'll just donate it, quietly, without announcing it to everyone I know, and without buying some awful chari-dee single. And I wish celebrities would just do the same. I find it very distasteful that, say, sandra Bullock can't just donate a million pounds to haiti - she has to publicly announce that she's doing it. Is that benefiting the Haiti people or Sandra Bullock's public image? I mean, did you see john travolta using the tragedy as a means to promote his barmy religion? Horrid, horrid, horrid. Just give them the money, celebs, you've got enough of the stuff - and keep it to yourselves when you do.

Sorry, these things annoy me. So yeah, I wish Brian (and Al) weren't involved with such an awful song!