AM station KHJ in LA had the Heroes single listed as a Hitbound (new entry on the chart that week) on their survey for the week of July 12 '67. This was soon after Brian and his caravan of BB's and friends showed up unannounced with the fresh pressing of the new Heroes single, found Tom Maule working his shift at the station, and then found that Maule would not play the record on air until he called his boss Ron Jacobs. This was in the week leading up to that week of July 12th.

Over a year ago (circa May - June 2011) there was a thread concerning the story of the night in July 1967 when Brian and company took an acetate of Heroes and Villains to LA radio station KHJ, offering a worldwide premiere and exclusive, only to be told by the dj that he couldn't play anything that was not not the playlist.

Back then I contacted KHJ's 1956-69 program director, Ron Jacobs, for his comments on the story, and was surprised to find that he had no knowledge of it.  I paraphrased some of his comments in a post back then, and promised to post his detailed comments "soon" which I never did.

So now, with Ron Jacob's permission to post his emails, for those interested in the story, here are Ron Jacob's comments (in yellow) concerning the incident.

From: Ron Jacobs
Subject:    Re: KHJ July 1967
Date:    May 27, 2011 7:47:39 PM PDT
To: Rob Shepherd

On May 27, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Rob Shepherd wrote:

...

I didnt include the whole post in my quote for the sake of brevity but I am SO GLAD I found this post again. I remembered reading it years ago and when the board was acting up really bad last week, the thought of preserving this singular anecdote above all seemed of particular importance to me.

This is arguably the best, most important post in all of SS, certainly the best individual sleuthing that I ever saw occur in the forum's history along with disproving the "Beatles heard SMiLE" myth. My hat is off to you, sir!

Things like these two disproven urban legends make me wonder what other commonly accepted "facts" passed around are really just total bullshit. That David Leaf quote "oh but its such a great story why disprove it?" is kind of infuriating because it shows the people writing the books, articles, and liner notes that become history are willing to fabricate evidence if it makes the story more interesting, which I think is wrong. I really wish I had been this age in the 70s-90s so I could do my own research with the principals and write my own book. At this point though, everyone's dead and the events are 50-60 years old so I dont see the point. But the more I learn of the Priores of the world, whom we've trusted to transcribe the truth, the more I want to scream.

Make sure to read the rest of the discussion, all of the pages, where Desper directly contradicts what Ron Jacobs said, since he actually drove with them in a Rolls Royce to the station that night, along with other contradictions of Jacobs' comments, including Jacobs' own previous published comments about getting "exclusives" hot off the press from artists including Brian. And how KHJ effectively bootlegged the song Valleri off the Monkees' TV show and aired it as a "KHJ Exclusive" complete with Jacobs' whispering that phrase over the record, a similar thing which may have happened to Heroes since KHJ was spinning the record on air prior to the release, proven by that Bobby Tripp aircheck. 

The great tragedy is that the Bobby Tripp KHJ aircheck I heard and referenced (and transcribed on the old Smile Shop) where he played "Heroes" on KHJ before its official release is "scoped" (edited), and you can't hear the actual song, only Tripp's comments after the record played, which were lukewarm to say the least.

This isn't the "gotcha" moment you may think it is, just adding more colors to the overall picture and seeing someone who was actually there contradict who you may think blew up the story. The truth lies somewhere in the middle of all of it as is usually the case. Melcher may have exaggerated the tale, but Desper confirmed it happened and they got into the station and  the record got on the air, and that goes against what Ron Jacobs told Custom Machine in that exchange.

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

Thank you for adding those details. I do think though that some of the scenes in question are being conflated into other issues, and some points mentioned that were more isolated cases, like the whole Baywatch Nights debacle.

I think trying to "blame" Don Was in these cases is similar to those who try to blame or assign more weight to one factor over others for the collapse of Smile in '67. It's not possible to do so because of so many external influences and other moving parts.

There are several very strong undercurrents running at this time in the band's and Brian's timeline. Some of them are personal and interpersonal, some are business, and some are just they way things happened in the process. You cannot point a finger at Don Was without pointing another at Carl, and then the rest of the band. Remember The Beach Boys at this point were a corporation. And they were also a group lost in the wilderness desperately trying to get a label deal. They had no original music to offer of any consequence, yet were still basking in the afterglow of the renewed interest in their back catalog Capitol classics, from the box set to the reissues to TV appearances. And yet they couldn't score a new deal and had no songs to speak of in the can to get such a deal. Most deals, I'm fairly certain, hinged on Brian's involvement in the music and his name being attached to any project. Even Joe Thomas had to make deals to get Willie Nelson involved to bring Brian on board, since he was not interested in it otherwise. And in fairness, he did have dozens of songs in reserve if they needed them - which they did.

Now how much power did Don Was have, and what did he think his role was? He originally wanted to work with Brian, and began doing so, cutting original tracks with Paley and Don's regular crew of session cats like Waddy. When Brian became "free", he told Don he wanted to make music with The Boys again. So did that shift Don's role from working with Brian as he wanted to do to working with "The Beach Boys", which is an entirely different set of circumstances. Did Don eventually balk at the group politics and dynamics associated with that, could that have been a factor too? Did Don simply feel that after hearing "The Beach Boys" on songs he had been working up with Brian and Paley that they were not what The Beach Boys needed to make a hit? Maybe good for a Brian solo project, maybe not for what The Beach Boys were looking for?

Then factor in the interpersonal stuff, including the lawsuits (plural), the tensions already in the band without Brian's involvement, and the tension with Brian's return and the past several years of nonsense that went on.

It was not a good time. The details could fill pages. But I think again the family issues and at times turmoil mixed with jealousy and resentment contributed as much to various happenings as anything a producer-for-hire like Don Was could have had an effect. And again I'm curious to hear and speculate whether Don was fully on-board producing the Beach Boys rather than just working with Brian, and whether at any points he may have asked "did I sign up for this?" when it shifted from working with Brian to trying to get The Beach Boys a record deal and back on the charts with new material.

I/we could add much more to this but that's a start.

To be clear, I'm not actually blaming Was as the reason it fell apart, I used that comparison to highlight that he probably shouldered more direct responsibility for the project not going forward than Carl, who can't have been more than another cog in the general vague sputtering out of this thing rather than the arch villain. A lot of conflict and dramatic objections tend to be to put into the telling of what happened here but in my view, after doing a lot of digging, the album basically just crumbled into the rear view under indifference and mismanagement the way a lot of Beach Boys ideas tend to. They all hold responsibility for fumbling the potential. It was plainly a huge failing of them all for not rallying behind an enthusiastic Brian who had material that sounded as good as You're Still a Mystery. While Carl likely didn't help, nobody else lifted a finger to keep it going, and Bruce was actively going out of his way to start them on something else. Don Was probably just undervalued that it took a miracle to get them together in the first place, and they'd need to keep being glued in close proximity under cohesive leadership or it wouldn't happen at all. Joe Thomas, for all the questionable things he did with music, was a "get stuff done" guy who spoke corporate and knew how to maintain the balance. He wasn't taking his time between calls and turning up to places barefoot.

I do think that Don Was wanted to work with the Beach Boys. What he was after was a Pet Sounds 2 for current times, and he said as much in interviews. He envisioned Brian and Mike writing deep stuff about working through their family troubles, probably not songs titled Baywatch Nights. During the IJWMFTT doc shoot in 1994, he was filmed on the phone pitching to Elliott Lott the idea of getting the guys down to a studio and singing parts on one of Brian's new tracks on camera (Proud Mary floated as an option), just to test them working together again and get a positive public image rolling. I think working with Brian was one thing, working on a competent Beach Boys album of Brian Wilson songs was the real ambition. Proud Mary, Wasserman's Trios, and the documentary remakes aside, he had been fairly distant to what Brian and Andy were stacking up in the studio until this came together in November 1995.

Yes, and just for the record I remember all of this stuff trickling out into the music press in 95 and 96, and I still have "Pulse!" magazine, Tower Records' in-house magazine from November 1995, Brian and Van Dyke on the cover promoting Orange Crate Art. That's where there was a sidebar article about Don Was working with Brian and describing how he told them how uplifting it would be to write a song about about the truths of their lives and family, etc...and they came back with Baywatch Nights.

I've posted that article or at least clips/scans of sections on this board in past years, not sure if they're still accessible, but I'd highly recommend looking for that Pulse! issue Nov. 1995 for the interview. That is also where Brian tells about the Boys not returning his calls and not showing up for the listening party he had invited them to, and it says Brian was hurt by this (obviously!).

Similarly, I have Mix magazine March 1996 where Brian is interviewed by "Bonzai", invited by Don Was to the studio where Don's crew was recording with Brian and Andy, to photograph and interview Brian. That article has some neat descriptions of the recording process Don was helming at the time, and how Don and the guys were cutting the tracks live and sometimes on the fly to capture that electric live feel of the past. Brian also mentions how Carl was excited about the track "Soul Searchin" ('Carl liked it a lot') after saying Andy wrote most of that himself, and in Brian's mind, quote, "Andy was a hero to Carl".

There's also a quote at the end of the Pulse! article where Don Was says of Brian and Andy's new songs "of the 40 new songs we've got, a handful are as good as anything he's written."

That last quote would seem to contradict the notion that Don didn't feel the material was strong enough. So was Don's opinion that the material was as good as anything Brian had written, but not what The Beach Boys were looking for? Maybe that's the crux of it. But it would seem like a direct contradiction for him to say that, then say the material wasn't up to par.

Oh yeah, thanks, the Pulse issue, that's the one I was thinking of. I've read that one and I've heard of the Bonzai interview in Mix magazine but have never been able to find a copy. Would you be able to post that anywhere if it's in reach? Really interested to read about any studio behind the scenes. I'm guessing that was reporting on the Nov 7 and 8 sessions at Ocean Way, where they cut basic tracks for Soul Searchin', You're Still a Mystery, It's Not Easy Being Me and Turn On Your Love Light, a week and a half before the Beach Boys came in and sang. Pulse being the interview where Brian mentions them cancelling on his listening invite makes sense of the timeline - it's a few months down the line from the aborted March attempt, then it must've been shortly after this that Carl did go along to Don Was' house with Brian and Andy to hear what they'd been working on.

Noticed this as well in the Pulse report from Don: "Halfway through the movie, what Brian said to me was, 'I want more than anything to make a Beach Boys album, but you go talk to them.' So I did, and they were all anxious to work with him. Since the film is partly about him repairing his damaged relationships, I thought, fine - let's get it on film, even if it's uncomfortable. They were all receptive to that, but ultimately the lawsuits prevented it from happening." I'd forgotten about the context behind it, but that's exactly what he did during the shoot. That was early August '94 and he was trying to arrange for the others to drop in alongside Carl. Didn't know what postponed it so long, but, um... the lawsuit would make sense.

It would kind of make sense that Don had different expectations about a Brian Wilson album and a Beach Boys album. A new Brian solo record didn't have to change the world, but with the Beach Boys, he said himself that he was fretting about making a worthy successor to Pet Sounds, which was obviously in everyone's ears around the time of the 30th anniversary.

Will, I do have the March 1996 issue of Mix, the full magazine. I may not be able to get it scanned in the next week, but I will try. I've only posted bits and pieces in scans here in the past. Unfortunately a lot of the interview/article is Bonzai asking Brian to comment on Pet Sounds tracks, so it's heavier on that and lighter on the Don Was sessions, but there is still some good conversation and descriptions about the then-present time and Brian's takes on things rather than only revisiting 1966. But at that time even hearing Brian talk about PS track by track in a new article was pretty cool, although you can tell Brian was more interested in what he was working on in the studio with Don and Andy than he was rehashing Pet Sounds.

When I do get it scanned I will try to post it in this thread, just check back for updates.

There's never been a true, unbiased investigation where the sleuth isn't afraid to step on some toes, call some VIPs out for lying or passing along unsubstantiated conjecture as fact

Julia, yes there has been. And not specific to Smile, but for other incidents in the band's history where the "insiders" and VIP's you speak of were passing around false information. And by false I mean information that was passed up the ladder to firsthand participants who said it was false. And some of that happened with people who you have described here in your writings over the past few months as trusted sources.

So I don't want to get into it again, but I'll say again such scenarios did in fact happen and these people you speak of did get called out.

And I will say about the happenings of December 1966: I do not remember who it was, I don't think it was Peter Reum, but I did also hear that there was a band/family meeting in December 1966 that was not positive. I can't say what it was about, I don't have any clue if it was about the sequencing and banding of the proposed Smile album, but I just have to say that I also heard about a 12/66 group meeting that was apparently very intense and which, if we just look at the Smile timeline of events from December 1966 to January 1967, served to help change the trajectory of the album and the project itself going into 1967. Please check the timeline and you'll see clearly where such a break in the momentum happened.

I'm as mad at myself for not notating this better, for not remembering it better, or for putting something out there with sketchy details and little to go on. I don't like to do that...but I wanted to add to all of this that I also heard of something BIG that happened within the group and family in December 1966, and it is simply not widely reported on and hasn't been  for years after the fact. The next generation of sleuths will have to pick up that torch and run with it I guess, before it's too late and everyone who was actually involved is gone.

If there were more detail, I'd add it to my and Don Malcolm's extensive writings and thoughts on the events of May and June 1967 in the crucial events and meetings that affected the trajectory of Smile the most. Alas, such detail isn't there enough to be definitive, and I just can't remember where I heard about that 12/66 meeting. But I definitely did hear about it, and it was apparently a big one.  

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

Thank you for adding those details. I do think though that some of the scenes in question are being conflated into other issues, and some points mentioned that were more isolated cases, like the whole Baywatch Nights debacle.

I think trying to "blame" Don Was in these cases is similar to those who try to blame or assign more weight to one factor over others for the collapse of Smile in '67. It's not possible to do so because of so many external influences and other moving parts.

There are several very strong undercurrents running at this time in the band's and Brian's timeline. Some of them are personal and interpersonal, some are business, and some are just they way things happened in the process. You cannot point a finger at Don Was without pointing another at Carl, and then the rest of the band. Remember The Beach Boys at this point were a corporation. And they were also a group lost in the wilderness desperately trying to get a label deal. They had no original music to offer of any consequence, yet were still basking in the afterglow of the renewed interest in their back catalog Capitol classics, from the box set to the reissues to TV appearances. And yet they couldn't score a new deal and had no songs to speak of in the can to get such a deal. Most deals, I'm fairly certain, hinged on Brian's involvement in the music and his name being attached to any project. Even Joe Thomas had to make deals to get Willie Nelson involved to bring Brian on board, since he was not interested in it otherwise. And in fairness, he did have dozens of songs in reserve if they needed them - which they did.

Now how much power did Don Was have, and what did he think his role was? He originally wanted to work with Brian, and began doing so, cutting original tracks with Paley and Don's regular crew of session cats like Waddy. When Brian became "free", he told Don he wanted to make music with The Boys again. So did that shift Don's role from working with Brian as he wanted to do to working with "The Beach Boys", which is an entirely different set of circumstances. Did Don eventually balk at the group politics and dynamics associated with that, could that have been a factor too? Did Don simply feel that after hearing "The Beach Boys" on songs he had been working up with Brian and Paley that they were not what The Beach Boys needed to make a hit? Maybe good for a Brian solo project, maybe not for what The Beach Boys were looking for?

Then factor in the interpersonal stuff, including the lawsuits (plural), the tensions already in the band without Brian's involvement, and the tension with Brian's return and the past several years of nonsense that went on.

It was not a good time. The details could fill pages. But I think again the family issues and at times turmoil mixed with jealousy and resentment contributed as much to various happenings as anything a producer-for-hire like Don Was could have had an effect. And again I'm curious to hear and speculate whether Don was fully on-board producing the Beach Boys rather than just working with Brian, and whether at any points he may have asked "did I sign up for this?" when it shifted from working with Brian to trying to get The Beach Boys a record deal and back on the charts with new material.

I/we could add much more to this but that's a start.

To be clear, I'm not actually blaming Was as the reason it fell apart, I used that comparison to highlight that he probably shouldered more direct responsibility for the project not going forward than Carl, who can't have been more than another cog in the general vague sputtering out of this thing rather than the arch villain. A lot of conflict and dramatic objections tend to be to put into the telling of what happened here but in my view, after doing a lot of digging, the album basically just crumbled into the rear view under indifference and mismanagement the way a lot of Beach Boys ideas tend to. They all hold responsibility for fumbling the potential. It was plainly a huge failing of them all for not rallying behind an enthusiastic Brian who had material that sounded as good as You're Still a Mystery. While Carl likely didn't help, nobody else lifted a finger to keep it going, and Bruce was actively going out of his way to start them on something else. Don Was probably just undervalued that it took a miracle to get them together in the first place, and they'd need to keep being glued in close proximity under cohesive leadership or it wouldn't happen at all. Joe Thomas, for all the questionable things he did with music, was a "get stuff done" guy who spoke corporate and knew how to maintain the balance. He wasn't taking his time between calls and turning up to places barefoot.

I do think that Don Was wanted to work with the Beach Boys. What he was after was a Pet Sounds 2 for current times, and he said as much in interviews. He envisioned Brian and Mike writing deep stuff about working through their family troubles, probably not songs titled Baywatch Nights. During the IJWMFTT doc shoot in 1994, he was filmed on the phone pitching to Elliott Lott the idea of getting the guys down to a studio and singing parts on one of Brian's new tracks on camera (Proud Mary floated as an option), just to test them working together again and get a positive public image rolling. I think working with Brian was one thing, working on a competent Beach Boys album of Brian Wilson songs was the real ambition. Proud Mary, Wasserman's Trios, and the documentary remakes aside, he had been fairly distant to what Brian and Andy were stacking up in the studio until this came together in November 1995.

Yes, and just for the record I remember all of this stuff trickling out into the music press in 95 and 96, and I still have "Pulse!" magazine, Tower Records' in-house magazine from November 1995, Brian and Van Dyke on the cover promoting Orange Crate Art. That's where there was a sidebar article about Don Was working with Brian and describing how he told them how uplifting it would be to write a song about about the truths of their lives and family, etc...and they came back with Baywatch Nights.

I've posted that article or at least clips/scans of sections on this board in past years, not sure if they're still accessible, but I'd highly recommend looking for that Pulse! issue Nov. 1995 for the interview. That is also where Brian tells about the Boys not returning his calls and not showing up for the listening party he had invited them to, and it says Brian was hurt by this (obviously!).

Similarly, I have Mix magazine March 1996 where Brian is interviewed by "Bonzai", invited by Don Was to the studio where Don's crew was recording with Brian and Andy, to photograph and interview Brian. That article has some neat descriptions of the recording process Don was helming at the time, and how Don and the guys were cutting the tracks live and sometimes on the fly to capture that electric live feel of the past. Brian also mentions how Carl was excited about the track "Soul Searchin" ('Carl liked it a lot') after saying Andy wrote most of that himself, and in Brian's mind, quote, "Andy was a hero to Carl".

There's also a quote at the end of the Pulse! article where Don Was says of Brian and Andy's new songs "of the 40 new songs we've got, a handful are as good as anything he's written."

That last quote would seem to contradict the notion that Don didn't feel the material was strong enough. So was Don's opinion that the material was as good as anything Brian had written, but not what The Beach Boys were looking for? Maybe that's the crux of it. But it would seem like a direct contradiction for him to say that, then say the material wasn't up to par.

My main criticisms, which you're conveniently avoiding to address this strawman argument, are the fact that they forced a home studio into his house he couldn't even use without THEIR permission. (So, all the extra expectations of productivity and other people coming and going in YOUR HOUSE at their pleasure, but none of the benefits for you).

Forest for tree here, but I think this is another example casting the Beach Boys as monsters for something that didn't really happen the way you're framing it. Brian begged for a home studio! He went on and on about wanting one of his own for ages. Marilyn and Danny Hutton have both said as much. The original makeshift setup involved a Gates Radio Company console and equipment mostly rented from Wally Heider's that could be used any time of year. Later, for practical reasons, new sound system equipment was developed for the road that could also be multipurpose installed as a more durable setup in the house. Kind of a weird way to do it, sure, but it isn't as if this was designed to constrain and control Brian. He was personally wealthy enough that he could've had a permanent studio built outside of the Beach Boys corporation if he'd wanted. When the equipment was moved out of the house at Marilyn's behest, Brian spent years talking about wishing he had it back.

Now this gets into some of the deeper layers that were a factor during this specific time, and also gets into how the personal issues would have an effect on the music and the band's business. Brian may have wanted a home studio, no doubt he did because he had an ad hoc studio at his previous house with expensive tape machines (including his own 8-track machine) and primitive mixers as early as 1966, we have photo evidence. But when it got into say 1969-70-71 was Brian actually actively using the studio in his house? It did become like a business venture for the band more than a place for Brian to work on his music. He rarely ventured down to the studio when the guys were there working except to occasionally offer a suggestion. Yet he and his wife and kids (key point to come there...) heard what the band was doing.

Picture having two daughters under 5 years old, a wife/mother taking care of them, and all the other issues of being a homeowner. And then you have a studio running at who knows what hours where you'd hear the tracks being recorded and mixed in your own home. What if you needed a break so to speak? Nope, this was the business agreement made with the band/corporation and these guys needed to record.

I'm just thinking that arrangement wore thin after some point, from a personal perspective, and again Brian who had the studio in his house was probably the least involved in actually using it at various points in time during that era.

There was also the situation where I believe it was Mike had invested in some of the road gear, which was also rented out to other acts, so he was collecting rental fees when the band toured with that live sound equipment as well as if it were rented to other acts. Check with Desper on that one...but was Brian getting anything for the use of his house apart from the gear itself, which he didn't personally own outright?

And the personal layer is as simple as imagine raising a family with a baby and toddler and dealing with that, and having musicians coming and going and recording music that you could hear in the house, and that's just on Marilyn's side. With Brian, if he were 22 again and super competitive and brimming with ideas to put his band on the top of the charts, he'd be in that studio cutting tracks whenever he wanted. By 1969 that simply wasn't the case, and yes he DID agree to the business arrangement for the studio, but man that probably got old pretty quick if there was little or no break from music being made in that studio and people coming and going when Brian wasn't even directly involved.

Just raising that as one issue out of many where the personal and the business/music intersected, perhaps negatively, and how what seemed like a good idea could turn sour.

Point being, maybe Brian loved the idea of having a studio setup like that in his house, but the reality and everyday issues surrounding that reality weren't as great as the concept and they were a few years too late in the execution.

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

Thank you for adding those details. I do think though that some of the scenes in question are being conflated into other issues, and some points mentioned that were more isolated cases, like the whole Baywatch Nights debacle.

I think trying to "blame" Don Was in these cases is similar to those who try to blame or assign more weight to one factor over others for the collapse of Smile in '67. It's not possible to do so because of so many external influences and other moving parts.

There are several very strong undercurrents running at this time in the band's and Brian's timeline. Some of them are personal and interpersonal, some are business, and some are just they way things happened in the process. You cannot point a finger at Don Was without pointing another at Carl, and then the rest of the band. Remember The Beach Boys at this point were a corporation. And they were also a group lost in the wilderness desperately trying to get a label deal. They had no original music to offer of any consequence, yet were still basking in the afterglow of the renewed interest in their back catalog Capitol classics, from the box set to the reissues to TV appearances. And yet they couldn't score a new deal and had no songs to speak of in the can to get such a deal. Most deals, I'm fairly certain, hinged on Brian's involvement in the music and his name being attached to any project. Even Joe Thomas had to make deals to get Willie Nelson involved to bring Brian on board, since he was not interested in it otherwise. And in fairness, he did have dozens of songs in reserve if they needed them - which they did.

Now how much power did Don Was have, and what did he think his role was? He originally wanted to work with Brian, and began doing so, cutting original tracks with Paley and Don's regular crew of session cats like Waddy. When Brian became "free", he told Don he wanted to make music with The Boys again. So did that shift Don's role from working with Brian as he wanted to do to working with "The Beach Boys", which is an entirely different set of circumstances. Did Don eventually balk at the group politics and dynamics associated with that, could that have been a factor too? Did Don simply feel that after hearing "The Beach Boys" on songs he had been working up with Brian and Paley that they were not what The Beach Boys needed to make a hit? Maybe good for a Brian solo project, maybe not for what The Beach Boys were looking for?

Then factor in the interpersonal stuff, including the lawsuits (plural), the tensions already in the band without Brian's involvement, and the tension with Brian's return and the past several years of nonsense that went on.

It was not a good time. The details could fill pages. But I think again the family issues and at times turmoil mixed with jealousy and resentment contributed as much to various happenings as anything a producer-for-hire like Don Was could have had an effect. And again I'm curious to hear and speculate whether Don was fully on-board producing the Beach Boys rather than just working with Brian, and whether at any points he may have asked "did I sign up for this?" when it shifted from working with Brian to trying to get The Beach Boys a record deal and back on the charts with new material.

I/we could add much more to this but that's a start.

In other words, Don Was told poor Brian not to "mess" with the formula.

Funnily enough, this is what he told the Rolling Stones around the same time... At least according to Jagger, talking about Voodoo Lounge in 1995, "... there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake"

Consider that Don Was had been hired to produce on almost all the Rolling Stones albums released since Voodoo Lounge, including the original albums, live albums, and compilations. And they were pretty successful. So Mick may have had some nitpicking to air on Voodoo Lounge, but that album was a success and they brought Don back to produce over the past 30 years again and again and he gave them respectable sales and even some critical acclaim in return.

That's generally what he's known for - making albums that sell and are well-received especially with "legacy artists". He knows the biz. 

As usual the truth sits somewhere in the middle, but Carl's actions and decisions are not infallible either in some of these cases. I'm not out to drag Carl at all, but I do feel in some instances the pendulum of hindsight has swung too far as to not include some of the things Julia mentioned, and to suggest Carl was the great peacemaker and stood the high ground.

As far as examples - and I've both dug up and researched and heard directly some of these cases (some not for publication) - I go to the one right after Brian got "free" of the Landy situation and was working most with Don Was and Andy Paley. Brian told Don the one thing he wanted to do was get back to making music with his band. He had a collection of songs and demos for them, as we all know. Brian invited "his band" to come listen to what he had for them. And no one showed up. They ghosted him, in today's slang.

Now of course there can be many reasons, many excuses...but at that specific time, when interest in Brian particularly was gaining a lot of steam in fan circles outside the normal nostalgia Beach Boys circuit, and when there was a palpable momentum for something to happen, when Brian emerges from all of the bullshit he was dealing with and was "free", and he says he has new original songs for the Beach Boys, that's pretty big news, right? At least give him some respect and come to his invited listening party...but they didn't. Carl didn't. And eventually it was Carl who put the kibosh on Soul Searchin and the other Wilson-Paley tracks they had at least begun working on.

Also keep in mind, this was at a time when the Beach Boys could not beg, borrow, or steal a record deal, and they had little or nothing in the tank as far as something original to offer for a deal. Brian as much as said this in interviews from that time, where he says flat out I want to help the guys get a deal. And whatever Carl and the others didn't feel right about caused them to stumble around and eventually decide to go with Mike's idea to bring in Joe Thomas and do the country covers/tribute record instead of new music.

I have the full article where that case is described, I've posted many other examples here in the past and would just need to dig them up. In case anyone thinks it's not true, it did happen, and that's just scraping the surface. When Brian said he wanted to make music with his band again, he was rejected in favor of a series of ideas that were questionable at best, ridiculous at worst.

I'll cite as well another long-form interview published where Brian briefly gets into the brother and family dynamic between him and Carl in the 90's, and even in a few statements the sense of anger and hurt comes through pretty clear. Again I think Brian was hurt by some of Carl's actions, and vice versa. But it wasn't a case of one person being the infallible high ground of morality and peacemaking that the telling of the story sometimes suggests. There was much more to it in the 90's than what meets the eye, and again some of it is not for publication.

Consider too that there is a difference between working on the fairy tale music in 1972 and Brian being told "no" repeatedly throughout the 90's, after Landy was out of the picture.

Can anyone find a photo of the real Chrissie Jolly?  She's a somewhat mysterious young lady who reportedly left Siegel (temporarily) for his good friend (and best man) Thomas Pynchon (new novel coming out in a month, btw!).  I've always wondered about the gal after Brian allegedly claimed she was a witch messing with his brain through ESP.

No photos but here's the full article and story about Chrissie's (Virginia Christine Jolly) affair with Jules' dorm hall neighbor Pynchon as published in Playboy, 1977. Brian gets a few mentions in the article too:

https://shipwrecklibrary.com/the-modern-word/sl-siegel-playboy/

Just as an update for those who haven't followed this stuff, there were usually questions about who "Dick and Carol Maier" were and how they were connected to the group here...Carol Maier was Carol Botnick, a friend of Marilyn Wilson's who also appears in the Beach Boys Party! photos (in one she is sitting next to Carl). Richard was her husband at the time, and both were visitors to the Wilson house in the mid to late 60's.

The other people in the photo and their histories can be found with an online search.

Back row: Danny Hutton, Dean Torrance, David Anderle, Mark Volman, Brian
L to R seated: Sherril Anderle, Michael Vosse, Jules Siegel, Robin Lane, June Fairchild, Annie Wilson, Gene Gaddy, Barbara Gaddy, Diane Rovell, Dick Maier, Carol Maier, Marilyn Wilson.

Van Dyke Parks and wife Durrie are at the far right side of the second photo, and are seen seated with the others in other shots, but not in the top photo.

For a long time Robin Lane was misidentified as Chrissie Jolly, Jules' girlfriend at the time, but that is most definitely Robin Lane who was brought to LAX by Terry Sachen who is not in any of the LAX photos I'm aware of...but who knows. I've only seen the ones I've seen and Terry isn't in any of them. It was Robin who also said this group went out for dinner after this photo was taken and she sat across from Brian at the table.

And for the record: The men standing in the back row have sold an estimated 210+ MILLION records combined, and that doesn't include the albums, soundtracks, and other projects David Anderle was involved with.

I wish that fact (among others) was cited whenever someone tries to accuse the people Brian had with him during Smile of being leeches and hangers-on.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2025-09-05/mark-volman-turtles-flo-eddie-happy-together-dies-78

I think part of the reason why both "Kokomo" and "We Built This City" by Jefferson Starship get tagged or meme-d as the "worst song ever" so often is because they're so far removed from what those bands used to be and what they used to represent to their fans. Or people simply don't like the songs. But there's a certain emotional weight to beloved 60's era bands that makes their total shift to 80's pop sonic sensibilities even more egregious to the fans. "This is the same band who did Pet Sounds?" "This is the same band who did Surrealistic Pillow?"...stuff like that. For the record I feel the same personally about Chicago. I can barely listen to anything they did after Terry Kath died, a lot of that because I love those first 3 Chicago albums so much and the Cetera ballads just don't cut it or sound anything like what the band was going for on those early albums.

Al and Mike still don't seem to be getting along. Kind of sad reading Al describe Mike's speech at Brian's memorial service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1a-5-ZM0w

Video just released to Adam's 1.4 million subscribers. Somewhere over certain parts of the world you can probably see a bat signal in the night sky. Watch the comments section. 

I've got my beer and popcorn ready. 

I predicted itd happen now and yall took the bait to prove my point.

So your posts were "bait" and not a genuine attempt to have a discussion?

Why dont yall provide me with the definitive sources on Melinda and then I can be as enlightened in my opinion as you?

Logic would suggest the definitive source would be Melinda herself, but in a previous post you've already said you find her word "a bit sketchy". So that removes her as a possible source to consider. Then I suggested (and factually too) that regarding the L&M movie, Brian was the other primary source since he and Melinda were often the only ones there in the scenes being depicted, but if you have issues with his reliability as a source, does that remove him too?

If you remove Brian and Melinda, whose word you find "sketchy" regarding events that actually happened to her and her husband, who is left?

I reposted the link to the tribute Jean Sievers wrote for Brian, and you seem to have ignored it (or haven't had time to read it). Jean was Brian's manager since the late 90's, working directly and daily for and with Brian, and doing the heavy lifting along with her co-workers to actually make things happen in Brian's career. And she did a phenomenal job...does her word count?

Here's the link again: https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/

Then that leaves people who were Brian's and Melinda's personal friends, people who had their personal phone numbers and could call anytime and receive calls too. That's a very short list, but do we discount their word too because they're too close to be unbiased in their observations?

Regarding things like the L&M movie, NPP, BWPS, Smile art, and all of that - There are very large teams and crews in place with each of those projects, including record labels, production and distribution operations, screenwriters, marketing teams, accounting and budget teams, the works. Beyond personal management from people like Jean. "Budget" can be the key term, it's not as if Brian himself could have cut a check and cover all the costs and not have labels and film companies have their own interests and limitations in place. Should those various people be considered a valid source as well?

And maybe after all that, we're left with various people who claim "insider" status, and proceed to spread gossip and rumors to fans online or in fan clubs or whatever. People who may carry personal grudges, or perhaps have a history of putting out gossip and innuendo for whatever reasons they may have, gossip that has often been proven false. Do we weigh or even value the word of people like that over the actual individuals who were the subject of these events and happenings?  

If weighing a personal bias or grudge against someone being talked about factually is a factor, consider how many people in these fan communities have a history of bashing, criticizing, gossiping about, and using ridiculous nicknames for Melinda Wilson like "Missy", "the wifey", "hiswifeandmanagers", "his handlers", and the "me-landy" chestnut, and consider the validity of what they're saying. Does it come from a source of factual information, or rather hearsay and personal grudges?

Food for thought, that's all it is.  I think the classic saying is "consider the source".

This was probably hashed out a zillion years ago, but is there any evidence/indication that:

A) The songs were offered to Sinatra
B) The offer actually made it to him
C) He then turned them down

Yes it was discussed here. Click on the YouTube link I posted before to hear Brian personally talk about the song and Sinatra in 1977. Unfortunately it was before the meeting itself so no follow ups and info on what transpired. But a meeting was definitely planned as Brian specifically mentions it.  And the rest of the thread is pretty interesting too.

Eureeka! I found it! Click on the link, it goes to where Brian talks about writing Still I Dream Of It for Sinatra "about 2 or 3 weeks ago for Frank, personally..."

https://youtu.be/YZAwYF2tLbU?t=468

Thanks to the uploader on YouTube for sharing. Someone grab it before it disappears too, please  

1977 interview, not '76.

My opinion is based on the Wikipedia article and its sources about the Paley sessions as well as the defensive NPP marketing, the way Wendy (or was it Carnie?) called her "M E L ANDY" (damn autocorrect keeps changing this to "Melinda" behind my back, tad suspicious) Mike and others in Brian's life saying she was heavy handed (or words to that effect) and a commentor in the main board discussing the shitty way they treated Frank Holmes. Plus just little scattered anecdotes Ive heard over the years, some from insiders I wont name along with just a general vibe I took away from Love and Mercy that they had to play up her role as the savior to appease Brian's camp and get the movie made.*

*Yes she saved him but the back and forth 60s-80s time lapses kind of hurt the movie in my opinion. It took time away from the far more interesting 60s stuff and the two stories dont come together in a narratively satisfying way, just individually fizzle out. Also, some of the "isnt Melinda amazing?!" moments felt over the top, like Landy throwing a fit in her office and shes all cool like "I think Im ready to sell some cars" as the manager just sat back and did nothing. That scene took me out of the movie and apparently the events of the 80s sequences arebased solely on her word, which I find abit sketchy. Carl's role in helping free Brian is totally omitted which also feels kinda shitty.

People can feel free to disagree or say "if she was overbearing to others it was at Brian's urging", or "we dont know what happened" (which is true) Ive seen it all play out here before a million times. Im not gonna get into a big back and forth about Brian's private life because its pointless on several counts but this is why my read on her is a bit less than the perfect saint shes often portrayed as. Not evil, but a flawed person with an agenda--like almost everyone in the bands story.

Consider the possibility that these "sources" and "insiders" you cite as references that shaped your opinions may be wrong, or spreading false information.

That scene took me out of the movie and apparently the events of the 80s sequences arebased solely on her word, which I find abit sketchy. Carl's role in helping free Brian is totally omitted which also feels kinda shitty.

And based on Brian's word too, unless you see fit to dismiss his memories entirely and call both primary subjects' word "sketchy". Regarding Carl's role, there are people who can speak directly to that subject matter but who probably won't most likely out of respect, all things considered based on what actually happened during that time. As much as you suggest there is an effort to canonize Melinda as "Saint Melinda", there are also circles who have done the same with Carl, creating a "Saint Carl" aura where he could do no wrong. Unfortunately as in most if not all human stories and actions, that's not always the case.

Maybe consider widening your sources of information, digging a little deeper and looking under the surfaces, and hopefully getting closer to the truth apart from self-edited Wikipedia entries and "insiders" who quite simply were not there and can only comment and critique from afar, many layers removed from the primary sources if they're not just telling tall tales out of school. There have been quite a few instances of that.

As for the truth coming out about the Melinda years, I doubt it. Not because I dont think some shady stuff happened but I doubt theres anyone left who could even really tell that story. I think if nothing else Melinda was heavy handed and misguided in her management of Brian's career but its taboo to say for many reasons. I wouldn't accuse her of any worse than that with what we now know.

Like Rab said, it's not taboo to put a topic and opinion out for discussion, but where did you get this information from to form such an opinion, especially using terms like "misguided" and "heavy handed"?

I'd suggest reading or re-reading this article too, if nothing else to balance the firsthand observations of someone who actually managed Brian through all of the events Rab listed above, and someone who was actually doing the work against whatever other sources may have been saying:

https://news.pollstar.com/2025/07/23/in-her-own-words-jean-sievers-on-managing-the-late-great-music-genius-brian-wilson/

 Maybe Van Dyke didn't think it was professional to ask string players to wear fire helmets

Van Dyke Parks wearing a firehat:


Brian and a mystery engineer or assistant engineer also wearing the hats. Can anyone identify the engineer with the white shirt, tie, and firehat behind Brian?

Hmmmm.....

Two important points worth noting that are being missed or not mentioned.

One, where was Van Dyke in a professional sense when he started working with Brian on Smile? Van himself tells the story of driving to Brian's house alone that first meeting on a motorbike, and getting pulled over by the police who would patrol the more "exclusive" neighborhood where Brian lived. The officer escorted Van Dyke to Brian's house to check on his story, and that he belonged there, and had it not been for Brian being who he was, and having a further connection (somehow!) with the officer's family and The Beach Boys, Van Dyke would have been in a real jam. Contrast that status at the time with Brian's, who was without exaggeration a pop star with a plethora of gold records on his wall and disposable income to do or buy whatever he wanted, having worked hard to chart and sell that many hit records and attain such a status by age 24.

The point is it was a collaboration, with all the usual situations involved in two creatives working that closely together to create a work, but one of those two clearly held the stronger hand in the partnership, and had the ultimate veto power too. So if Van Dyke possibly had reservations or even outright objections to some piece of music, it was Brian's project which Van Dyke was being paid to work on as work-for-hire, and it was Brian's name and past history that had the clout and the ears of the world.

Read the Vosse "Fusion" section where he mentions Brian and Van occasionally butting heads and having disagreements about this or that, and he also mentions the times when they were working together and it was a marvel to watch the creativity flow when the two were on a roll. It's the nature of any relationship, the ebbs and flows and pushes and pulls in order to reach a common goal. And having these two inspire each other, push each other to try new things, and also disagree is what happens often when two extremely talented and original thinkers join forces to create.

But in 1966 and early 1967, it was Brian's name that had the clout, not Van Dyke Parks, and consider that maybe - just maybe - Van Dyke needed to be reminded of that at the time. In later years, as I've cited before, Van Dyke never hesitated to credit Brian with giving him that golden ticket to enter a higher status within the music business when he was driving a motorbike in a wealthy LA neighborhood and getting pulled over by police because he didn't belong there. Brian's first order of business was to buy Van a new Volvo. Within months, Van Dyke had his own record label deal to make a solo album with nearly full control over the musical content (almost unheard of for a relative unknown in 1966-67) too.

Note as well the difference between working with the work-for-hire collaborators like Parks, Asher, Christian, Usher, etc had a far different dynamic than working with his family members within the band. That's subject for another topic all together.


Second point - Most people who have worked with Brian up to his final albums have said there is a vast difference between "everyday Brian" and "studio Brian", in focus, behavior, and interactions with others. "Studio Brian" was focused, demanding, very business-like, and able to create musical ideas literally on the spot which no one else would have thought to do. For proof, you'll have to rely on eyewitness accounts from those who were there for the more modern examples, short of any videos that exist from sessions since "studio chatter" and talkback recordings no longer are done as they were in the 60's. For audio proof, go back to any if not all sessions that are available officially and not from the 60's Capitol era (and even the Hite Morgan stuff I guess).

Is there any audio from those 60's sessions where Brian sounds anything less than the guy in control and running the proceedings with confidence? Working with the finest available musicians in LA, there was young Brian Wilson directing them through take after take, eventually getting them to a result that even the seasoned pros like Kessel and Kaye and Tedesco would occasionally snicker at or say it wouldn't work during the process, only to hear the results when it all came together and understand where this kid was coming from and how unique and advanced his ideas on harmony and arrangement could be. 

The audio from those 60's sessions, yes even the infamous Help Me Rhonda tape with a drunk Murry barking at him over the talkback, show a young guy full of ideas, confidence, and the ability to get things done in often stressful situations.

I'd ask how many of you out there have been faced with a situation like that, where you have a roomful of top-notch musicians, cynical ones at that, waiting for direction on what to play and how to play it from *you* on the floor or in a control booth over a talkback mic. It's a daunting situation that needs someone able to rise to the occasion and make often magic things happen in a studio.

Brian, or I'll say "studio Brian", rose to the occasion enough times that we can now hear and study his body of work, created in those studios under those situations.

If there is any doubt about his abilities, mentally or whatever, it didn't go into the studio and affect his ability to make classic and timeless records.

But again that's the point to consider looking at "studio Brian" versus "everyday Brian".

And I'll end that point with an anecdote about my time living in Boston, and spending time on Harvard's campus area and around MIT. Around those areas you'll find a concentration of some brilliant individuals and thinkers, in many fields. But I'll just say it wasn't uncommon to see professors and visiting artists-in-residence riding old beat up bicycles, wearing ratty clothes and blazers with holes in them, mismatched socks and clothing, and generally looking unkempt, while having a mindful of thoughts and theories that the average person could not begin to comprehend. So their "daily life" was lacking in some areas of human behavior and interaction, but their professional lives were running on levels many stages beyond the average human's thoughts and knowledge. As soon as they were in their wheelhouse, in their comfort zone, they were untouchable. But outside of that realm, where they owned the rooms or labs or whatever, society would consider them lacking some of the basic human traits that are considered "normal".

Food for thought.

When Brian was asked who was his favorite collaborator - correct me if I'm wrong - wasn't his answer always or almost always Van Dyke Parks?

Trying to say or suggest Brian did not like Van Dyke's lyrics is revisionist history bordering on complete nonsense, in my opinion. If anyone didn't like Van Dyke's lyrics, it was other members of The Beach Boys. Brian did love Van's lyrics, and said so.

Don - adding to your timeline, I wanted to offer a few additional points and events to consider in your analysis of that time period post-Smile. I'll quote previous posts from here to show either the primary sources or clippings from interviews or various papers.

Consider these events with Brian:
- Brian appearing as a solo performer on "Inside Pop" playing Surf's Up, first aired late April 1967 and repeated on US television that summer
- The birth of his first child Carnie, April 29, 1968.
- His surgery to correct his bad ear, now pegged to sometime in Fall or late '67
- His quotes about the band "nearly breaking up for good" during this time (exact quotes below)
- His hospitalization, as you referenced...has a definite time for this been nailed down and do you have any of the articles mentioning this?
- Dennis considering leaving LA for Hawaii, July 67
- His quotes about dropping out of the production race, seen below, and the reasons why

Just food for thought:

Ok, I was wrong on the 68 date on the ear surgery. There is still one interview with Carl where he mentions being excited for Brian to hear in stereo that I cannot find, but I found these excerpts which I clipped and have the publication dates.

It seems to have been sometime in Fall '67 when Brian had the surgery to try correcting his hearing. What you'll read is kind of discouraging in retrospect because each of them mention the operation being a success. "Them" being Dennis, Murry, and Carl chronologically in these interviews.

NME December '67



Beat Instrumental February '68



Beat Instrumental April '68

Jamake Highwater interview, 1968: We pulled out of that production pace merely because I was about ready to die. You know, I was trying so hard. All of a sudden, I decided not to try anymore. You know, I decided not to try to do such great things, such big musical things.

Interview from 1968: Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE.  I was working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on some of the tunes, and in the process, we came up with a song called "Surf's Up," and I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music.  The song "Surf's Up" that I sang on that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked...because...I don't know why...for some reason didn't want to put them on the album.  And the group nearly broke up, actually broke up for good after that.

Relevant quotes to consider from the Don Was documentary:

Brian:
"I had a great big, a great problem with the Beach Boys. And I wanted to do my kind of music and they wanted to do their kind of music. So it was a tug of war, I felt like I was getting pulled to pieces. Like two...inner turmoil that's struggling, with the see-saw, kind of teeter totter kind of thing, you know? Where I was being pulled all around, you know? And I just about, I fell to pieces."

"When I was younger I was a real competitor, then as I got older I said is it worth the bull, the bullshit, you know, to compete like that? And I said, nah, for awhile there I said I just said hey I'm gonna coast, I'm gonna make real nice music, nothing competitive, right?"

Marilyn:
"He had a real hard time with the guys, after Pet Sounds and after Smile. Because he felt guilty that he got all the attention, and he was the one who was called the genius. And, you know, he knew, he felt that the guys really resented that, and I think they did. I think it was very hard for them to understand why is Brian Wilson singled out. But anybody with a brain would know why."

"Well he would slowly just stay in the bedroom and let the guys record in the studio, since the Beach Boys paid for the studio. And it just became more and more that he would just stay in bed, didn't want to go down, and, you know, 'let them do their thing, let them do their thing'. And it was very tough for him because he thought that they all hated him. I think it was like, 'OK you assholes, you know, you wanna...you think you can do as good as me, or whatever? Like, go ahead. So you can do it, you do it. You think it's so easy? You do it.'"

"And I don't think Brian really ever came back. I don't think he ever had the need, I mean...he was just torn down, he really was. They slowly tore him down. I hate to say it, but they did."

I also still agree with 100% of what I wrote on page 11. When doing a historical analysis with the goal of creating at the very least a hypothesis, at most creating a definitive narrative to be entered into a historical record, all sources must be considered and weighed accordingly. And that includes first-person narratives and quotes from the time and events being researched. When it comes to the time period of May-June 1967, expanding a bit to May-October 1967, there are the facts of what happened, speculation into what could have happened, and in these cases audio and published proof of what did happen which anyone can hear for themselves with a little digging. To cherrypick some items over others, or to put personal opinion on the table or even into the record as historical fact to be argued is where a line should be drawn. In the specific cases of the changes in the music and overall direction of the band's music and working methods, it may be a case of simply playing whatever version of 1967 "Smile" you choose next to the released "Smiley Smile" and things like the Hawaii concerts, and let people decide with their ears what was going on when they hear the differences between those recordings.

Regarding BWPS, I've agreed with Rab's comments on this in the past and still do. If both original creators and collaborators were not involved directly in "finishing" the work, it would be a totally different case. But both Brian and Van Dyke were involved, and effectively signed the work as a finished piece. Some may try to (erroneously) peg Darian's involvement as more than what it really was, even though Darian himself described his role in the process as a "musical scribe" for the two original creators. And he had the technology available at the time via a laptop and digital files to make moves in the recorded audio on the fly, placing one snippet in a specific sequence and then immediately be able change it to something else, in effect auditioning different sequences and musical flows within the piece to hear the results immediately. This was technology that didn't exist in 1967, and took literally hours of splicing and cutting magnetic tape out of the old work process to allow immediate changes to be heard and tried. To suggest anything happened beyond Darian's self-described role as a "scribe" for the two creators as a way to delegitimize BWPS and suggest Brian and Van were not the main creators for the BWPS project ignores what actually happened. And when "new" connecting material was added to create a smoother, more symphonic musical flow for the movements, it was done by the same writers who worked on the music in 1966-67...and it became a finished work in movements both on stage and on a recording. I guess it could be called arguing semantics to get into the weeds of discussing or arguing about the legitimacy or status of BWPS, but it's not like people outside of the two composers who started the work in 1966 had a hand in "finishing" it by actually composing music for it which wasn't there originally.