I don't think I was being fair before by trivializing the argument so much. I just don't think it's a very a productive line of discussion.

Some members here insist on framing the conversation in an absurdly reductionist way, either you like the Beach Boys or you don't. Period. You either admit that the Student Demonstration Time lyrics are good or you admit that all the other lyrics Mike wrote are bad. You accept everything The Beach Boys give to you as presented, or you're an irresponsible fan.

The Beach Boys are not this infinitesimally small, irreducibly dimensionless point. The Beach Boys are a dynamic constellation of hundreds of songs, dozens of personalities, and fifty years of history.

Saying, "I like the lyrics on Good Vibrations, but I don't care for Mike Love's attitude and personality" is not a self-defeating or contradictory statement. Likewise disliking Student Demonstration Time does not commit anyone to a general dislike or hatred of Mike Love as a human being.

It's not this either or choice, it's criticism. It's a judgement based on individual taste and general aesthetic preference. Some people might prefer Mike's lighter fare, some might enjoy the self-serious Rieley lyrics, some might enjoy both depending on their mood that day. These are critical and subjective judgements, and a judgement passed on one song, on one album, can not be seamlessly extrapolated by reductionist logic into a moral condemnation of the guy who diddled out the crappy lyrics on a napkin while eating lunch.

Well, I'm being told to cut the crap and accept SDT as a fail and I simply refuse to do so. And I'm sorry, but the criticisms of the track don't even make any sense. All we keep hearing is how, in this opinion or that opinion, is how bad the lyrics are how it, just, ya know is soooooooooo obviously a pathetic grab at being hip. Others can demonstrate with logic how the lyrics in question really don't support these assertions and a dialogue can't even be achieved because someone else just pops up stating the same tired thing. You are correct in what you wrote about criticism and opinion, but when it comes of SDT (and Mike in general) there's this holier than thou attitude that calling something lame is in irrefutable fact. This is what gets annoying. And this B.S about oh, Big Sur should have been on Surf's Up just reeks of a backhanded compliment. I mean, is there a more perfect place for that song than on Holland where it opens up, of all things, California Saga? The Beach Boys were not morons and SDT wasn't included on Surf's Up just because Mike's feelings would get hurt if it wasn't.... It's easy to bash SDT because it's Mike (and I don't buy criticizing it for any other reason) but to me, Neil Young sounds just as desperate to be hip with Ohio, as do Joni Mitchell or CSN with Woodstock. Those two songs make me want to vomit. Now, Southern Man, on the other hand is completely incendiary. Then again, the players on that track really bring it, whereas Ohio doesn't have the same power (Neil has stated that drummer on Ohio Dallas Taylor would purposefully play badly on his songs). Point I'm trying to make is that a song  can be imperfect from a compositional/lyrical standpoint but can achieve greatness through the sheer physicality and visceral qualities of it's recording..... I think this is a valid point but I'm sure this will be followed up by someone just going..... "Uh, yeah, but you're wrong, SDT sucks"

Hate is a choice.  Saying 'so and so sucks' is a choice.  In a real sense, it's libel however easy to get away with.  Saying 'so and so sucks' is not a criticism.  Saying 'I don't like SDT and here's why... [logic given] 'is' criticism.  Saying 'I don't like SDT and here's why...  'the-guy-who-wrote-lyrics sucks'?  Not criticism.

You can go on attempting a defense of these words of yours but you haven't evidenced any *criticism*.  Your intent is clearly to disparage an individual.  It's somewhat easy to prove since the board hasn't erased your posts, have they?

Wirestone, 

I am glad to hear THAT!

Still a very weird way to present it (i.e. people looking frantically for a page that didn't exist).  Haven't played yet or read any of the book, just browsed for contents without glasses. 

Now relieved.

And may I add that it's gotten me all stressed out.     Will take your word for it, Andrew.   

I get the impression that the uber-editing made it unclear to the sessionographer.

Yes, thank you.  But, alas, that's just vocals..... what about backing tracks?  

Songwriting Credits, too, father?

Could anyone post the guestlist and who is on which track? Would be great.

Yes.  I would like someone (ANYONE!) to *please* post the track credits!   I got the Amazon.