[SMiLE]

PS: Episodes 44-52 are devoted to SMiLE...

I would honestly rather those be avoided nowadays as any meaningful point of reference because so much information within them is outdated (applying to most episodes before Sunflower), but there are great musical insights from Steve Bonilla. My recommendation instead is to keep an eye on beachboyssessions.com in 2026.

[3.]

3. OMP was 56866 on 11/14, but the fade recorded on 2/10 is 57020. (How interesting too, that the fade was done during the period we commonly assume only singles were on the menu.)

Pretty sure that 2/10 date was just the new vocal overdubs (presented vocals only on disc 3 of the Smile Sessions), and that that the instrumental was recorded with the rest of OMP on November 14, so the change to a Heroes master number makes sense. Then on 2/28 he recorded the section over from scratch, but still for heroes of course.

Master numbering only really had relevance to Capitol keeping track of recordings they'd paid for. A number would be associated with a title in their own files and usually on union sheets, but it wasn't something the artist had any input to. It would often be messy and inconsistent, especially during the Smile era, and generally didn't communicate meaning.

Not disagreeing at all, but it's interesting in and of itself that the paperwork was messy and inconsistent, I feel like. I wonder how normal that was in the industry at this moment, or if it was a phenomenon of the Smile working method. Because you'd think under normal circumstances that a record company would, in fact, want to know what expenses matched to what songs and it would be someones job to get it more or less right. Obviously Smile was not normal circumstances. And also maybe the record industry back then was just generally sloppy with paper work.

You'd be surprised by how typical it was for anything happening outside of Capitol's own studios. If it wasn't in house, they didn't have much control or oversight. This whole master numbering thing is why I always advocate that the same level of depth and attention should be brought to the rest of the group's career, and to not look at the Smile era in a vacuum, because without the familiarity of wider working patterns, it's so easy for this information to become skewed and overemphasized (or underemphasized).

[3.]

3. OMP was 56866 on 11/14, but the fade recorded on 2/10 is 57020. (How interesting too, that the fade was done during the period we commonly assume only singles were on the menu.)

Pretty sure that 2/10 date was just the new vocal overdubs (presented vocals only on disc 3 of the Smile Sessions), and that that the instrumental was recorded with the rest of OMP on November 14, so the change to a Heroes master number makes sense. Then on 2/28 he recorded the section over from scratch, but still for heroes of course.

Master numbering only really had relevance to Capitol keeping track of recordings they'd paid for. A number would be associated with a title in their own files and usually on union sheets, but it wasn't something the artist had any input to. It would often be messy and inconsistent, especially during the Smile era, and generally didn't communicate meaning.

It probably isn't worth getting into this here in too much detail until it can be published with quotes and citations in a proper resource. But the short version is, when Frank said it was June in 2005, he gave an off the cuff answer and years earlier had engaged in a much more thorough correspondence drawing on key dates and events to figure out his place in it.

Frank believed that he met Brian and was commissioned at most about three weeks before starting the fall semester at the Otis Art Institute on Sep 19, and from that thought it may have been the last week in August. Some of his work was done at home in Pasadena and the rest was finished within a couple of weeks of moving to LA to begin the semester. He was told from the outset by Brian that the album title had originally been Dumb Angel, but was now being changed to Smile, and that was the concept he'd work from. Van Dyke started by giving Frank the lyrics for the few songs they'd finished, plus prospective titles for other ideas. More were communicated over the following weeks and Frank worked on each illustration start to end in an eight hour day immediately after receiving the latest work. His involvement tells us a great deal about the order and timeline of the songwriting.

Fair enough, thanks for taking the time to clarify. You're obviously a very thorough researcher with access to info that the rest of us aren't so I believe you. Someone giving an off the cuff answer is plausible especially when by all accounts the 2005 book was a rush job (the editor on an earlier thread even admitted so) and full of errors. I hope the implication here is that this kind of thing will be sussed out in the SMiLE book I've seen allusions to in other threads  

So...damn...now that means SMiLE was SMiLE as early as August?? When was Dumb Angel even the title then, like for five minutes when working on WC and GV?? That's wild. Well, there goes my theory about the dramatic change in tone in November because of the name change...   (Not that I mind changing my position as new info comes to light, that's what this kind of thing entails, but it's crazy how often it seems to happen with this goofy album from 60 years ago. You'd think all the supposed research of the last 6 decades could've produced some kind of basic timeline for us by now...)

I wont pester you for more details but I hope to see this all someday. You think it'll be a published book or will it be an extension of the website you've been sharing the Pet Sounds information on?

I believe a handful of reports in July and August stated that the next album would be called Dumb Angel, plus, most notably, Tom Nolan's article which came from interviews with Brian on and around August 12 while he was in the studio cutting Look. A new album project number was assigned by Capitol in late June, which is probably when Brian decided he'd he working on a new LP with that title. From various things Brian, Van Dyke and Frank have said, it became Smile pretty much as soon as Van Dyke was on the scene.

Don't worry, there will be something about this on the site in a few months!

[Also, how does this affect Frank Holmes? He still could've delivered the cover by sometime in October,]

Between the two dates you give, I say the sooner the better for these reasons. But unless you're willing or able to tell us exactly what evidence you're looking at to peg it down to ~Aug 25, I hope you won't take it personally if I remain somewhat skeptical. Without seeing what you're seeing, I'm leaning towards late July or perhaps early August. Do we know which GV session Van recommended the cello triplets on? Because it was probably soon after that, and Im thinking that's June-July (by August GV was essentially over). Also, how does this affect Frank Holmes? He still could've delivered the cover by sometime in October, and I'd argue the new cover art was a not insignificant impetus to change the album's name to SMiLE, which inspired or coincided with the sudden burst of comedy recordings in very late Oct through November. But the man does say it was June where he was given the job by both men in Priore's 2005 book and it's an actual quote, not Domenic paraphrasing. This leads me to want to believe him, where otherwise I'd chalk this up to another Priore lie.

It probably isn't worth getting into this here in too much detail until it can be published with quotes and citations in a proper resource. But the short version is, when Frank said it was June in 2005, he gave an off the cuff answer and years earlier had engaged in a much more thorough correspondence drawing on key dates and events to figure out his place in it.

Frank believed that he met Brian and was commissioned at most about three weeks before starting the fall semester at the Otis Art Institute on Sep 19, and from that thought it may have been the last week in August. Some of his work was done at home in Pasadena and the rest was finished within a couple of weeks of moving to LA to begin the semester. He was told from the outset by Brian that the album title had originally been Dumb Angel, but was now being changed to Smile, and that was the concept he'd work from. Van Dyke started by giving Frank the lyrics for the few songs they'd finished, plus prospective titles for other ideas. More were communicated over the following weeks and Frank worked on each illustration start to end in an eight hour day immediately after receiving the latest work. His involvement tells us a great deal about the order and timeline of the songwriting.

I'm sure Van Dyke wrote all or most of the lyrics to Wind Chimes after Brian's opening line.

You're sure of this because why?  

So, on Smiley Smile, Brian and Murry simply stiffed VDP on Wind Chimes despite crediting him on H&V, Vegetables and She's Goin' Bald?  

 It's my understanding that VDP wasn't originally credited for Wonderful but that was corrected by at least 1990 when my Smiley-Smile Wild Honey CD was released, and yet VDP wasn't on WC until BWPS when he was pretty much added to everything except Fire and the covers like Sunshine/Master Painter etc.

I don't know.  In my opinion the WC lyrics are pretty straight-ahead, more in line with Brian's writing of that vintage on Time to Get Alone and various Friends tracks than the punny, flowery and baroque lyrics that VDP was writing for Smile and Song Cycle.  Even Well, You're Welcome is more punny than Wind Chimes, and VDP wasn't credited on that either.

Because he said directly that he wrote those lyrics. It isn't a wild leap to... believe a thing he said, which actually did result in the publishing being amended. But yes, Parks was shafted over the Wonderful credit in 1967 in an identical way. That his name was added to one song in 1990 is immaterial to the fact that his name was omitted from both when they were originally copyrighted. Beyond that, Michael Vosse in Fusion referred to Wind Chimes as a song Brian and Van Dyke had done together, and Van Dyke included the title on a handwritten list of their songs-in-progress in 1966.

Also I think the fact that Brian asked Van Dyke Parks to rework Mike's lyrics and Parks declined is relevant, though I'm not sure exactly what it means. Does it mean that Brian saw the song as an integral part of Smile, and thus wanted Parks to bring it more in line with the lyrical tone of the other songs? Or does it mean that Brian thought it was totally out of place.... and thus wanted Parks to bring it more in line with the lyrical tone of the other songs!

Van Dyke wasn't asked to rewrite the final lyric, he was asked to rewrite Tony Asher's verses alongside Mike's excitations line in the chorus. Van didn't want to rewrite somebody else, so he suggested they work on something new, hence all of those other songs.

[It was a title Brian mentioned to Tom Nolan in early August 1966, weeks before he and Van Dyke started writing together]

I believe what he meant, in a muddled, Van Dyke-ish way, is that at some point while working together he referred Brian to the Wordsworth poem from which the phrase actually originated, as Brian had already been using the title for a song and mistakenly attributing it to Karl Menninger. It was a title Brian mentioned to Tom Nolan in early August 1966, weeks before he and Van Dyke started writing together.

Can you clarify this point please, because it's something Ive been confused on, when VDP and Brian started working together exactly. I'd assumed it was around May '66 because Badman says so (flawed source I know, and this may be another example) plus the earliest H&V recording made me think it may've been before then. Also I can double check it if challenged but I thought the 2005 book has Frank Homes claiming he was given the job in June thanks to Van, and the three of them spoke in that month to tell him enough about the album to inspire a cover. For me, the question of "when exactly did VDP start working with Brian" is one of those simple things you'd think would have a simple answer, but like so much else it just doesn't.

Did Brian and VDP not write together until AFTER August? Does that mean WC really was solely, (or originally) Brian despite what Van claimed in 2003? You say weeks...so is it September or October they start together, and how do you know?

It was in a small window between the last couple of weeks in August and the first couple of weeks in September. There's good evidence for the case that it was shortly before August 25, and there's another argument to be made that it was shortly after September 8, though I tend to believe the former. That timeframe is supported by the recollections of Frank Holmes, Michael Vosse and Derek Taylor, and most solidly from Cam Mott's detailed correspondences with Frank and the Otis Art Institute in 1998-2001 to nail down exactly when the drawings were commissioned relative to the beginning of the songwriting (it had only just started). When Tom Nolan interviewed Brian circa August 12, the album title was still Dumb Angel and there was no mention of a collaborator in the picture. The first session for Wind Chimes on August 3 and the original missing-tape tracking session for Heroes and Villains on May 11 were almost certainly before Van Dyke had any writing involvement.

At Bellagio, AGD has a session for "Wonderful" and "He Gives Speeches" (two tracks we know VDP was involved with lyrically) on August 25; that suggests that Brian and VDP had been working together for at least some amount of time prior to that. Their anecdotal recollections suggest that these two were not the first tracks that they worked on together, so it would seem plausible that it could have been shortly after the "Wind Chimes" session on August 3.

As for VDP and his credit on "Wind Chimes"--possibly he touched up some lyrics prior to the October 10 session where vocals were recorded?

It wasn't unusual at all for Brian to record a track having a title, a melody, and a handful of lines, so that doesn't necessarily correlate to anything. But there is very good reason to believe Wonderful and Persuasion didn't exist at all before Van Dyke was involved, with those being the likely first session after they started writing together.

I'm sure Van Dyke wrote all or most of the lyrics to Wind Chimes after Brian's opening line.

I think it's possible that Brian was giving a series of conflicting signals about abandoning the project for some time, which would have left everyone caught in the middle. The session logs show us no evidence that the other tracks had actually been finished...and the rest of the band, thousands of miles away at various points in time during March and mid-April/mid-May, couldn't really be sure what was going on back in LA.

What we don't know is whether there were still lingering issues about two of the key tracks (SU, CE). This would have been back in the forefront once the "Inside Pop" series had aired (April 25). One possibility that doesn't seem to have been considered is that Taylor's announcement of an imminent SMiLE release on April 29) was an attempt to elide concerns about the status of the LP in wake of the "Surf's Up" segment with its endorsement from Leonard Bernstein. (No press agent worth his Ascot is going to pass up a chance to ride those coattails...)

It looks like Brian just yo-yo'ed a couple of more times at this point. He could have let Taylor issue a too-rosy picture of where things were at, then had a moment of dread about what was really involved in pulling it all together, remembering the issues swirling around those two key tracks, possibly having lost confidence in the original CE configuration. Having left a lot of tracks to languish, he could have felt overwhelmed by the prospect of it all. And we should at least factor in Carl's legal crisis regarding his draft status, which comes into play right at the same time (the night after "Inside Pop," to be exact). Brian might have thrown his hands up at that point, taking this as another bad omen.

I think we need to recognize that as all of that was playing out, the entire band had reasons to want to point their fingers in another direction. I think we get a palpable sense of "exasperated lament" in the wording of Taylor's May 6th announcement, as if he had been pistol-whipped while in a revolving chair. Does he ever issue anything else regarding SMiLE ever again? I do not recall ever seeing it...

As far as the surmise about SMiLE being abandoned in March, there are new notations at Bellagio 10452 that suggest events in March which were peripheral to and parallel to SMiLE which seem to be items from David Anderle's day planner. This data is of no use regarding SMiLE itself but it does help us pinpoint the point in time when Anderle (and, shortly thereafter, Michael Vosse) left the employ of Brother Records. It appears to be somewhere between March 14-28 (formal notice of the Bellagio purchase). With VDP also lost and gone to WB, Brian was now totally on his own. To get out from under the albatross of H&V, he switched to VT as "the single," which in itself was a retreat from SMiLE--but not yet a wholesale abandonment.

The problem was that there was just too much attention being paid to it, and the large-scale concept had become like an anchor pulling him inexorably underwater.

The situation remains suspended in mid-air until the band returns from Europe (May 20 or 21). Speculation regarding exactly what Brian was up to in the mid-May "Dada" sessions remains unresolved. (Whatever we make of it, it clearly can't be part of an "April SMiLE" construct.)  

As GF noted, something epochal occurs in the next two weeks within the band. However that all went down (and how close it came to breaking up the group), most of the Americana sequence is set aside, along with "Surf's Up." The rest would be reworked, and Brian reverted to H&V as the single. But the spooky undercurrent of Smiley overtook the humor and the themes were plowed under and left on deserted ground where no crows are neither seen nor heard...

This all scans to me as totally on the money. Great, great insight. There's a tendency to want to put a definitive stamp on when ideas stopped and started, and when Brian threw away one album and started another, but as you say, it seems more like a yo-yo in his mind and in what he was telling people for a few weeks or months. I think the airing of Inside Pop forcing Brian to finally make a decision about those postponed "heavy" songs at the heart of the project is really acute analysis, as is the draft bad omen and what would prompt Derek Taylor to make those yo-yo announcements in quick succession. To add one timeline detail here, the last Beach Boys sessions (or Beach Boys related things in general) that David Anderle noted in his appointment book were April 4 and 5.

[It was a title Brian mentioned to Tom Nolan in early August 1966, weeks before he and Van Dyke started writing together]

I believe what he meant, in a muddled, Van Dyke-ish way, is that at some point while working together he referred Brian to the Wordsworth poem from which the phrase actually originated, as Brian had already been using the title for a song and mistakenly attributing it to Karl Menninger. It was a title Brian mentioned to Tom Nolan in early August 1966, weeks before he and Van Dyke started writing together.

Can you clarify this point please, because it's something Ive been confused on, when VDP and Brian started working together exactly. I'd assumed it was around May '66 because Badman says so (flawed source I know, and this may be another example) plus the earliest H&V recording made me think it may've been before then. Also I can double check it if challenged but I thought the 2005 book has Frank Homes claiming he was given the job in June thanks to Van, and the three of them spoke in that month to tell him enough about the album to inspire a cover. For me, the question of "when exactly did VDP start working with Brian" is one of those simple things you'd think would have a simple answer, but like so much else it just doesn't.

Did Brian and VDP not write together until AFTER August? Does that mean WC really was solely, (or originally) Brian despite what Van claimed in 2003? You say weeks...so is it September or October they start together, and how do you know?

It was in a small window between the last couple of weeks in August and the first couple of weeks in September. There's good evidence for the case that it was shortly before August 25, and there's another argument to be made that it was shortly after September 8, though I tend to believe the former. That timeframe is supported by the recollections of Frank Holmes, Michael Vosse and Derek Taylor, and most solidly from Cam Mott's detailed correspondences with Frank and the Otis Art Institute in 1998-2001 to nail down exactly when the drawings were commissioned relative to the beginning of the songwriting (it had only just started). When Tom Nolan interviewed Brian circa August 12, the album title was still Dumb Angel and there was no mention of a collaborator in the picture. The first session for Wind Chimes on August 3 and the original missing-tape tracking session for Heroes and Villains on May 11 were almost certainly before Van Dyke had any writing involvement.

Seconding all that BJL's said on this one. But, honestly, that brief aside in NME is so devoid of context that I think it's near enough worthless in trying to figure out anything of substance. Did Dennis give one title and play something else? Did "cowboy song" come from a lyrical theme or the mood of the music or a description of the Morricone-like trumpet line or a general comment about various songs for the album? What does throwaway line "and this is a prayer I'm working on for it" even mean?! Dennis could've said that at some point in the conversation for like, 600 different reasons. He's Dennis Wilson. It's so vague!

Van Dyke Parks gave a comparably vague note on this but I don't think it was he who suggested the title. The quote given to Domenic Priore: "Brian had a fervent desire to re-invent himself as an individual, not as a boy, and that’s what happened, I think. By the time I met him, he had already done 'When I Grow Up (to Be a Man)'; he’d already raised those questions about being a man, and when I met him, that crisis was acute. I knew it was psychologically complex and over my head. The only way I could help with any of this, whatever it was he was going through, was refer him to that poem by Hawthorne [sic - misprint?] from which the phrase 'the child is father to the man' comes. He used it as part of his inquiry of Smile, as a lyric. It was an instrumental piece until Brian asked me to put some words on it in November of 2003." Elsewhere in the text, Van Dyke does correctly name Wordsworth and recite from My Heart Leaps Up.

I believe what he meant, in a muddled, Van Dyke-ish way, is that at some point while working together he referred Brian to the Wordsworth poem from which the phrase actually originated, as Brian had already been using the title for a song and mistakenly attributing it to Karl Menninger. It was a title Brian mentioned to Tom Nolan in early August 1966, weeks before he and Van Dyke started writing together.

The section in Little Bird that lifts the trumpet line and drum figure from Child is Father of the Man was Brian's doing. A lot of that song was ultimately written by Brian, as well as it being his arrangement and production.

Don't Talk (Put Your Browser on Our Website): https://beachboyssessions.com/pet-sounds/dont-talk-put-your-head-on-my-shoulder/

There's something so deeply satisfying about reading these essays, they're really so beautifully done!

What stood out to most, reading this, and thinking about the Smile conversations we've all been having, is just how much the consummate professional Brian was. There's nothing childlike or savant about these sessions, just a person in a clearly defined professional field working hard to stand at the top of that profession.

Thank you! And absolutely, he was a diligent, thoughtful guy who just happened to internalise a lot of his process. Usually, there's a logical through line to every musical decision he made, and part of the joy of pulling apart his work so closely is to understand why and how each of those cogs turned.

Don't Talk (Put Your Browser on Our Website): https://beachboyssessions.com/pet-sounds/dont-talk-put-your-head-on-my-shoulder/

This was a very interesting thread to rediscover. To add some further clarity here, in 1998, Terry Melcher re-told the story in greater, less dramatic detail, and again specified that the station was KHJ. Terry said that he called up Bill Drake (Ron Jacobs' boss) to straighten things out with the DJ and noted that it took place at about 2am, hence the trouble getting inside. He described the entourage of other cars as people from Capitol Records.

There's this, from an article in the July 16 LA Times: On July 5, Brian Wilson finished the tape and invited Capitol’s director of artists and repertoire, Karl Engemann, to the house to hear it. “I arrived,” Engemann said, “and no one was there. Brian had gotten so excited with the finished tape that he had taken it to radio station KHJ so he could hear it on the radio.” Then he took copies to other local stations, placing Capitol in the difficult position of listening to music which legally belonged to the company but which the company could not immediately distribute. Legal difficulties, however, appear to be near settlement and the latest word from Taylor is that the single should be distributed late this week on a new label, Brother Records, Inc., distributed by Capitol.

Heroes and Villains b/w You're Welcome was delivered to Capitol for mastering on July 7. So, based on that report, late at night on July 5 or very early in the morning of July 6 checks out as when it happened, however much of it did happen in reality.

My main criticisms, which you're conveniently avoiding to address this strawman argument, are the fact that they forced a home studio into his house he couldn't even use without THEIR permission. (So, all the extra expectations of productivity and other people coming and going in YOUR HOUSE at their pleasure, but none of the benefits for you).

Forest for tree here, but I think this is another example casting the Beach Boys as monsters for something that didn't really happen the way you're framing it. Brian begged for a home studio! He went on and on about wanting one of his own for ages. Marilyn and Danny Hutton have both said as much. The original makeshift setup involved a Gates Radio Company console and equipment mostly rented from Wally Heider's that could be used any time of year. Later, for practical reasons, new sound system equipment was developed for the road that could also be multipurpose installed as a more durable setup in the house. Kind of a weird way to do it, sure, but it isn't as if this was designed to constrain and control Brian. He was personally wealthy enough that he could've had a permanent studio built outside of the Beach Boys corporation if he'd wanted. When the equipment was moved out of the house at Marilyn's behest, Brian spent years talking about wishing he had it back.

Now this gets into some of the deeper layers that were a factor during this specific time, and also gets into how the personal issues would have an effect on the music and the band's business. Brian may have wanted a home studio, no doubt he did because he had an ad hoc studio at his previous house with expensive tape machines (including his own 8-track machine) and primitive mixers as early as 1966, we have photo evidence. But when it got into say 1969-70-71 was Brian actually actively using the studio in his house? It did become like a business venture for the band more than a place for Brian to work on his music. He rarely ventured down to the studio when the guys were there working except to occasionally offer a suggestion. Yet he and his wife and kids (key point to come there...) heard what the band was doing.

Picture having two daughters under 5 years old, a wife/mother taking care of them, and all the other issues of being a homeowner. And then you have a studio running at who knows what hours where you'd hear the tracks being recorded and mixed in your own home. What if you needed a break so to speak? Nope, this was the business agreement made with the band/corporation and these guys needed to record.

I'm just thinking that arrangement wore thin after some point, from a personal perspective, and again Brian who had the studio in his house was probably the least involved in actually using it at various points in time during that era.

There was also the situation where I believe it was Mike had invested in some of the road gear, which was also rented out to other acts, so he was collecting rental fees when the band toured with that live sound equipment as well as if it were rented to other acts. Check with Desper on that one...but was Brian getting anything for the use of his house apart from the gear itself, which he didn't personally own outright?

And the personal layer is as simple as imagine raising a family with a baby and toddler and dealing with that, and having musicians coming and going and recording music that you could hear in the house, and that's just on Marilyn's side. With Brian, if he were 22 again and super competitive and brimming with ideas to put his band on the top of the charts, he'd be in that studio cutting tracks whenever he wanted. By 1969 that simply wasn't the case, and yes he DID agree to the business arrangement for the studio, but man that probably got old pretty quick if there was little or no break from music being made in that studio and people coming and going when Brian wasn't even directly involved.

Just raising that as one issue out of many where the personal and the business/music intersected, perhaps negatively, and how what seemed like a good idea could turn sour.

Point being, maybe Brian loved the idea of having a studio setup like that in his house, but the reality and everyday issues surrounding that reality weren't as great as the concept and they were a few years too late in the execution.

No disagreement with any of this, all great observations. I just object to the original framing of it (not in your post) as if the Beach Boys forced a studio into Brian's home that he could then only use when they allowed, evilly, as if it was a sinister machination to hold his leash. It was basically an amenity that Brian wanted at first, then life and convenience changed around it. Danny Hutton likened it to having a private pool; once you've got it, it's so easily in reach that the thing sort of loses appeal. And then imagine that, but Al Jardine is also in your pool.

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

Thank you for adding those details. I do think though that some of the scenes in question are being conflated into other issues, and some points mentioned that were more isolated cases, like the whole Baywatch Nights debacle.

I think trying to "blame" Don Was in these cases is similar to those who try to blame or assign more weight to one factor over others for the collapse of Smile in '67. It's not possible to do so because of so many external influences and other moving parts.

There are several very strong undercurrents running at this time in the band's and Brian's timeline. Some of them are personal and interpersonal, some are business, and some are just they way things happened in the process. You cannot point a finger at Don Was without pointing another at Carl, and then the rest of the band. Remember The Beach Boys at this point were a corporation. And they were also a group lost in the wilderness desperately trying to get a label deal. They had no original music to offer of any consequence, yet were still basking in the afterglow of the renewed interest in their back catalog Capitol classics, from the box set to the reissues to TV appearances. And yet they couldn't score a new deal and had no songs to speak of in the can to get such a deal. Most deals, I'm fairly certain, hinged on Brian's involvement in the music and his name being attached to any project. Even Joe Thomas had to make deals to get Willie Nelson involved to bring Brian on board, since he was not interested in it otherwise. And in fairness, he did have dozens of songs in reserve if they needed them - which they did.

Now how much power did Don Was have, and what did he think his role was? He originally wanted to work with Brian, and began doing so, cutting original tracks with Paley and Don's regular crew of session cats like Waddy. When Brian became "free", he told Don he wanted to make music with The Boys again. So did that shift Don's role from working with Brian as he wanted to do to working with "The Beach Boys", which is an entirely different set of circumstances. Did Don eventually balk at the group politics and dynamics associated with that, could that have been a factor too? Did Don simply feel that after hearing "The Beach Boys" on songs he had been working up with Brian and Paley that they were not what The Beach Boys needed to make a hit? Maybe good for a Brian solo project, maybe not for what The Beach Boys were looking for?

Then factor in the interpersonal stuff, including the lawsuits (plural), the tensions already in the band without Brian's involvement, and the tension with Brian's return and the past several years of nonsense that went on.

It was not a good time. The details could fill pages. But I think again the family issues and at times turmoil mixed with jealousy and resentment contributed as much to various happenings as anything a producer-for-hire like Don Was could have had an effect. And again I'm curious to hear and speculate whether Don was fully on-board producing the Beach Boys rather than just working with Brian, and whether at any points he may have asked "did I sign up for this?" when it shifted from working with Brian to trying to get The Beach Boys a record deal and back on the charts with new material.

I/we could add much more to this but that's a start.

To be clear, I'm not actually blaming Was as the reason it fell apart, I used that comparison to highlight that he probably shouldered more direct responsibility for the project not going forward than Carl, who can't have been more than another cog in the general vague sputtering out of this thing rather than the arch villain. A lot of conflict and dramatic objections tend to be to put into the telling of what happened here but in my view, after doing a lot of digging, the album basically just crumbled into the rear view under indifference and mismanagement the way a lot of Beach Boys ideas tend to. They all hold responsibility for fumbling the potential. It was plainly a huge failing of them all for not rallying behind an enthusiastic Brian who had material that sounded as good as You're Still a Mystery. While Carl likely didn't help, nobody else lifted a finger to keep it going, and Bruce was actively going out of his way to start them on something else. Don Was probably just undervalued that it took a miracle to get them together in the first place, and they'd need to keep being glued in close proximity under cohesive leadership or it wouldn't happen at all. Joe Thomas, for all the questionable things he did with music, was a "get stuff done" guy who spoke corporate and knew how to maintain the balance. He wasn't taking his time between calls and turning up to places barefoot.

I do think that Don Was wanted to work with the Beach Boys. What he was after was a Pet Sounds 2 for current times, and he said as much in interviews. He envisioned Brian and Mike writing deep stuff about working through their family troubles, probably not songs titled Baywatch Nights. During the IJWMFTT doc shoot in 1994, he was filmed on the phone pitching to Elliott Lott the idea of getting the guys down to a studio and singing parts on one of Brian's new tracks on camera (Proud Mary floated as an option), just to test them working together again and get a positive public image rolling. I think working with Brian was one thing, working on a competent Beach Boys album of Brian Wilson songs was the real ambition. Proud Mary, Wasserman's Trios, and the documentary remakes aside, he had been fairly distant to what Brian and Andy were stacking up in the studio until this came together in November 1995.

Yes, and just for the record I remember all of this stuff trickling out into the music press in 95 and 96, and I still have "Pulse!" magazine, Tower Records' in-house magazine from November 1995, Brian and Van Dyke on the cover promoting Orange Crate Art. That's where there was a sidebar article about Don Was working with Brian and describing how he told them how uplifting it would be to write a song about about the truths of their lives and family, etc...and they came back with Baywatch Nights.

I've posted that article or at least clips/scans of sections on this board in past years, not sure if they're still accessible, but I'd highly recommend looking for that Pulse! issue Nov. 1995 for the interview. That is also where Brian tells about the Boys not returning his calls and not showing up for the listening party he had invited them to, and it says Brian was hurt by this (obviously!).

Similarly, I have Mix magazine March 1996 where Brian is interviewed by "Bonzai", invited by Don Was to the studio where Don's crew was recording with Brian and Andy, to photograph and interview Brian. That article has some neat descriptions of the recording process Don was helming at the time, and how Don and the guys were cutting the tracks live and sometimes on the fly to capture that electric live feel of the past. Brian also mentions how Carl was excited about the track "Soul Searchin" ('Carl liked it a lot') after saying Andy wrote most of that himself, and in Brian's mind, quote, "Andy was a hero to Carl".

There's also a quote at the end of the Pulse! article where Don Was says of Brian and Andy's new songs "of the 40 new songs we've got, a handful are as good as anything he's written."

That last quote would seem to contradict the notion that Don didn't feel the material was strong enough. So was Don's opinion that the material was as good as anything Brian had written, but not what The Beach Boys were looking for? Maybe that's the crux of it. But it would seem like a direct contradiction for him to say that, then say the material wasn't up to par.

Oh yeah, thanks, the Pulse issue, that's the one I was thinking of. I've read that one and I've heard of the Bonzai interview in Mix magazine but have never been able to find a copy. Would you be able to post that anywhere if it's in reach? Really interested to read about any studio behind the scenes. I'm guessing that was reporting on the Nov 7 and 8 sessions at Ocean Way, where they cut basic tracks for Soul Searchin', You're Still a Mystery, It's Not Easy Being Me and Turn On Your Love Light, a week and a half before the Beach Boys came in and sang. Pulse being the interview where Brian mentions them cancelling on his listening invite makes sense of the timeline - it's a few months down the line from the aborted March attempt, then it must've been shortly after this that Carl did go along to Don Was' house with Brian and Andy to hear what they'd been working on.

Noticed this as well in the Pulse report from Don: "Halfway through the movie, what Brian said to me was, 'I want more than anything to make a Beach Boys album, but you go talk to them.' So I did, and they were all anxious to work with him. Since the film is partly about him repairing his damaged relationships, I thought, fine - let's get it on film, even if it's uncomfortable. They were all receptive to that, but ultimately the lawsuits prevented it from happening." I'd forgotten about the context behind it, but that's exactly what he did during the shoot. That was early August '94 and he was trying to arrange for the others to drop in alongside Carl. Didn't know what postponed it so long, but, um... the lawsuit would make sense.

It would kind of make sense that Don had different expectations about a Brian Wilson album and a Beach Boys album. A new Brian solo record didn't have to change the world, but with the Beach Boys, he said himself that he was fretting about making a worthy successor to Pet Sounds, which was obviously in everyone's ears around the time of the 30th anniversary.

My main criticisms, which you're conveniently avoiding to address this strawman argument, are the fact that they forced a home studio into his house he couldn't even use without THEIR permission. (So, all the extra expectations of productivity and other people coming and going in YOUR HOUSE at their pleasure, but none of the benefits for you).

Forest for tree here, but I think this is another example casting the Beach Boys as monsters for something that didn't really happen the way you're framing it. Brian begged for a home studio! He went on and on about wanting one of his own for ages. Marilyn and Danny Hutton have both said as much. The original makeshift setup involved a Gates Radio Company console and equipment mostly rented from Wally Heider's that could be used any time of year. Later, for practical reasons, new sound system equipment was developed for the road that could also be multipurpose installed as a more durable setup in the house. Kind of a weird way to do it, sure, but it isn't as if this was designed to constrain and control Brian. He was personally wealthy enough that he could've had a permanent studio built outside of the Beach Boys corporation if he'd wanted. When the equipment was moved out of the house at Marilyn's behest, Brian spent years talking about wishing he had it back.

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

Thank you for adding those details. I do think though that some of the scenes in question are being conflated into other issues, and some points mentioned that were more isolated cases, like the whole Baywatch Nights debacle.

I think trying to "blame" Don Was in these cases is similar to those who try to blame or assign more weight to one factor over others for the collapse of Smile in '67. It's not possible to do so because of so many external influences and other moving parts.

There are several very strong undercurrents running at this time in the band's and Brian's timeline. Some of them are personal and interpersonal, some are business, and some are just they way things happened in the process. You cannot point a finger at Don Was without pointing another at Carl, and then the rest of the band. Remember The Beach Boys at this point were a corporation. And they were also a group lost in the wilderness desperately trying to get a label deal. They had no original music to offer of any consequence, yet were still basking in the afterglow of the renewed interest in their back catalog Capitol classics, from the box set to the reissues to TV appearances. And yet they couldn't score a new deal and had no songs to speak of in the can to get such a deal. Most deals, I'm fairly certain, hinged on Brian's involvement in the music and his name being attached to any project. Even Joe Thomas had to make deals to get Willie Nelson involved to bring Brian on board, since he was not interested in it otherwise. And in fairness, he did have dozens of songs in reserve if they needed them - which they did.

Now how much power did Don Was have, and what did he think his role was? He originally wanted to work with Brian, and began doing so, cutting original tracks with Paley and Don's regular crew of session cats like Waddy. When Brian became "free", he told Don he wanted to make music with The Boys again. So did that shift Don's role from working with Brian as he wanted to do to working with "The Beach Boys", which is an entirely different set of circumstances. Did Don eventually balk at the group politics and dynamics associated with that, could that have been a factor too? Did Don simply feel that after hearing "The Beach Boys" on songs he had been working up with Brian and Paley that they were not what The Beach Boys needed to make a hit? Maybe good for a Brian solo project, maybe not for what The Beach Boys were looking for?

Then factor in the interpersonal stuff, including the lawsuits (plural), the tensions already in the band without Brian's involvement, and the tension with Brian's return and the past several years of nonsense that went on.

It was not a good time. The details could fill pages. But I think again the family issues and at times turmoil mixed with jealousy and resentment contributed as much to various happenings as anything a producer-for-hire like Don Was could have had an effect. And again I'm curious to hear and speculate whether Don was fully on-board producing the Beach Boys rather than just working with Brian, and whether at any points he may have asked "did I sign up for this?" when it shifted from working with Brian to trying to get The Beach Boys a record deal and back on the charts with new material.

I/we could add much more to this but that's a start.

To be clear, I'm not actually blaming Was as the reason it fell apart, I used that comparison to highlight that he probably shouldered more direct responsibility for the project not going forward than Carl, who can't have been more than another cog in the general vague sputtering out of this thing rather than the arch villain. A lot of conflict and dramatic objections tend to be to put into the telling of what happened here but in my view, after doing a lot of digging, the album basically just crumbled into the rear view under indifference and mismanagement the way a lot of Beach Boys ideas tend to. They all hold responsibility for fumbling the potential. It was plainly a huge failing of them all for not rallying behind an enthusiastic Brian who had material that sounded as good as You're Still a Mystery. While Carl likely didn't help, nobody else lifted a finger to keep it going, and Bruce was actively going out of his way to start them on something else. Don Was probably just undervalued that it took a miracle to get them together in the first place, and they'd need to keep being glued in close proximity under cohesive leadership or it wouldn't happen at all. Joe Thomas, for all the questionable things he did with music, was a "get stuff done" guy who spoke corporate and knew how to maintain the balance. He wasn't taking his time between calls and turning up to places barefoot.

I do think that Don Was wanted to work with the Beach Boys. What he was after was a Pet Sounds 2 for current times, and he said as much in interviews. He envisioned Brian and Mike writing deep stuff about working through their family troubles, probably not songs titled Baywatch Nights. During the IJWMFTT doc shoot in 1994, he was filmed on the phone pitching to Elliott Lott the idea of getting the guys down to a studio and singing parts on one of Brian's new tracks on camera (Proud Mary floated as an option), just to test them working together again and get a positive public image rolling. I think working with Brian was one thing, working on a competent Beach Boys album of Brian Wilson songs was the real ambition. Proud Mary, Wasserman's Trios, and the documentary remakes aside, he had been fairly distant to what Brian and Andy were stacking up in the studio until this came together in November 1995.

You Still Believe in Me: https://beachboyssessions.com/pet-sounds/you-still-believe-in-me/

That's Not Me: https://beachboyssessions.com/pet-sounds/thats-not-me/

I love this!!  Is there any way that you all could consider adding tabs for the guitar and bass parts for future uploads of the sheet music to the official sites?

Thanks!!

P. S. A small preamble explaining how you all got involved in this project could be helpful and interesting as well, if you'd ever consider adding that.  I know c-man and Joshilyn have been working on these things for years, but less (I think) is known about how the rest of you worked your way into such an awesome and lucky group.

There'll be About and Glossary pages added to the site in time along with other things, we're just starting to get it rolling small. I think Joshilyn is considering a way to make midi versions of the scores available but probably wouldn't do guitar or bass tabs.

The relevant passage from Mark Dillon's 50 Sides of the Beach Boys, for anyone curious:  “The first day we had a full band there and Brian went around the room and told everyone what to play and cut the tracks. He was confident. And the next day The Beach Boys came in and did all the vocal parts. Everybody got along and it was a lovely couple of days. There wasn’t a tense moment and the results were pretty good. We did the cuts and lived with them for a month. Then I went to Brian’s house and told him, ‘This shows that a great Beach Boys record could be made, but I think you could write better songs. Let’s do better songs and finish this record.’ He said, ‘Yeah, I agree with you.’ And then Carl was sick and it just never happened. The situation never came up again and I had to live with my role in stopping the momentum. Maybe I should have just kept the momentum going instead of worrying about making a worthy successor to Pet Sounds.”

It isn't as if Was is the devil here, or did anything that would usually be considered unhelpful, but knowing Brian's history of course it put the brakes on his enthusiasm. Whatever Carl expressed about turning on Soul Searchin' specifically, how is that project going to keep moving if the producer himself doesn't want to use the songs Brian's been collecting for the past half decade? It isn't, especially not when they've already signed onto this country album deal that involves flying out to Nashville in a couple of months. Add Bruce and the alternate Sean O'Hagan album pitch to the mix too, then Brian basically hopped straight from that situation to working with Joe Thomas in Chicago. There's a prevailing sense that it could've continued if Was had told them, here's what we're doing next, when and where, but the iron didn't stay hot for long enough.

For a window into the atmosphere on day 2 of the Searchin'/Mystery vocal sessions, visiting engineer Mike Harris did what nobody else ever thought to do after watching the Beach Boys in the studio: sit down on camera two days later and describe everything he saw in detail. https://youtu.be/K8qm6r4-wKg?si=CPM9Oj1GCOCdO6F9

As ever, it's a deeply nuanced situation where the personal relationships and working dynamics do and don't clash. Nobody would deny that Brian and Carl had a difficult time with each other in the post-Landy years. It's the idea that Carl was being disingenuous in the Was interview and in his general attitude about Brian's music that I think just isn't a fair or accurate characterisation of the guy.

The oft repeated accusation that Carl hated Brian's new tunes and shut down the Beach Boys reunion sessions is such a puzzling thing when you actually get down to what's been said about it. Because, well... he just didn't.

The Baywatch Nights session was a one-off in March '95. According to Andy, he thought the session with Carl and Mike had gone well, until afterwards Brian announced without explanation that he'd hated the experienced and never wanted to do it again. The "Beach Boys are trying to destroy me" interview appeared a few months down the line. I'm not refreshed on whether the snubbed listening invite happened in '94 or '95, but again according to Andy, there was a listening session with Carl at Don Was' house in 1995 where Carl reacted very favourably to the material. Only two days at Ocean Way were booked in November as a test to see if the group would get on with each other, which they apparently did, aside from a slightly strange atmosphere around Mike, who arrived on his lonesome on the second afternoon. Eyewitnesses (Mike Harris, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Andy Paley, Matt Jardine) all describe an enthusiastic atmosphere with Carl upbeat, professional, and down to sing whatever Brian wanted however he wanted it.

Nothing further was planned, but the thought was that the sessions might move to Don Was' Chomsky Ranch studio on the proviso that he coordinate their schedules. He didn't, and in Don's own memory of what happened next (via Mark Dillon's book), a month passed before he told Brian that the material wasn't up to snuff, and that he should write better songs before they work on an album. Brian's enthusiasm obviously evaporated at that, and the situation never came up again. The group had already committed to Stars & Stripes at that point (started beforehand, in October '95) and by early 1996 were in Nashville working with Joe Thomas. Brian and Melinda put the blame on Carl for changing his tune and deciding Soul Searchin' wasn't commercial enough some amount of time after the fact, but clearly whenever this conversation took place it was already a non-starter. Bruce was gunning for the group to work with Sean O'Hagan and Melinda was gunning for Brian to focus on a solo album with Joe Thomas. Carl certainly didn't shut a project in progress down, and it isn't a situation where you can assign blame to any one person. Don Was, if someone has to take the fall.

This seems like a pretty uncharitable read of Carl based on a lot of mistruths. The most negative reaction I've ever heard of him giving to Brian's music in the 60s and 70s might be an initial "Huh?" (understandably) before coming around and working hard to see it finished. Many of these attitudes he supposedly had were either nuanced human situations in reality or just not things that he even said or did at all.

Im open to being schooled on what I said that's untrue if you have the time, but I understand if its not something you wanna get bogged down in either. I acknowledge he was in a tough spot too, Carl, watching his bro that everyone relied on fall apart. But from what I can see, Brian had outgrown the guys and wanted to go solo--his friends could see it, and I think this is part of why they were pushed out. Also there was clearly a lot of hurt on both sides in the 80s and 90s and I dont think that came from nowhere; I also think blaming it solely on Landy is a convenient scapegoat, not that he doesn't deserve a mountain of blame and ridicule for his own actions. In a lot of Beach Boy retrospectives it feels like the band is divided into two camps--the Wilsons and the Squares, with Carl either on the "cool kids" side or playing mediator. I think some of that is understandable--Brian and Dennis were out of control by the late seventies--but I also think he played a not insignificant part in getting them to that point. If Brian had been allowed to branch out and Dennis' contributions more respected, actually included over Mike and Al's mediocre songs on albums--I'm willing to bet they wouldn't have spiraled as badly as they did.

Im not nearly as much an expert as others, so I'll admit I could be wrong. But this is where I stand now based on the evidence I've seen. That's probably the nicest way I can express my feelings on Carl's mixed legacy. (They ALL have mixed legacies, of course. Carl never offered his own kid drugs or had sex with his cousin's much younger daughter out of spite.)

"With Carl, my reading of the material is he constantly pressured Brian to be productive again while simultaneously dumping on his output." - I'm wondering what would even inform that impression of him and their working relationship. When are we talking? 60s? 70s? 90s? Aside from his public dejection about the way 15 Big Ones turned out (which he produced the mixdown of, uncredited), where does this idea come from?

Mount Vernon - I mean, Carl co-produced that whole thing side by side with Brian, assembled the edit, and he's the reason it was ever actually completed at all. Not understanding how that would be an example of Carl not supporting Brian's music.

"Like, right here, he's acting as if he were Brian's supporter all along when he was dumping on the Paley stuff at the exact time this interview was filmed." - This whole thing sits somewhere between a wild exaggeration perpetuated on forums and a total falsehood. And anyway, the Beach Boys reunion sessions happened in November 1995. You're talking about an interview Carl shot in August 1994, where he's repeating the same sentiments that he expressed in numerous other interviews throughout his life. I would recommend reading the interview he gave to Geoffrey Himes in 1983 included in Kingsley Abbott's Back to the Beach. If you want to get a sense of what Carl actually thought about the music he recorded as a Beach Boy, that's the place to start.

This seems like a pretty uncharitable read of Carl based on a lot of mistruths. The most negative reaction I've ever heard of him giving to Brian's music in the 60s and 70s might be an initial "Huh?" (understandably) before coming around and working hard to see it finished. Many of these attitudes he supposedly had were either nuanced human situations in reality or just not things that he even said or did at all.

Carl saying those words at random in the middle of a session doesn't suggest in any way that it was a thing he would re-record as part of the actual song. It's just, like... him muttering something between takes. All of them mutter a whole lot of things between takes.