Don't panic:

http://www.thebeachboys.com/#go_page_2600

(Just to be safe, I copied the stuff into a LibreOffice document.  )

A good idea.

Unfortunately, those aren't the "good" parts of the notes (those are still MIA)...

Just to reiterate/expand upon what somebody else said. The phrase "lead-off single", in reference to an album, is just the primary 45/A-side that promotes the initial release of the album. It has got absolutely nothing to do with the track order on an LP. Back in the 'Smile' days these would be released just before, or on the same day as the LP. Sometimes they would be originals not on the album they were promoting (UK). Other times they were either just the same recording found on the LP, or a different edit/take/mix of said song (US).

For a long time now, however, it hasn't been unusual for the "lead single" of an album to be released as early as 3 months before the album...

[(Should be same as EH mix)]

Sounds of Summer:

California Girls (Should be same as EH mix)

Very different mix from initial/non-HDCD EH. Also subtly different from later/"revised" version of EH...

Kiss Me Baby (which was on the Endless Harmony CD?) Yes

Same as second/"revised" version of EH. But very different from initial/non-HDCD EH...

Thanks guys!

OK, I've been comparing Mark L.'s remix of the Brian solo version ('Pet Sounds' 1990/1999/2001/etc), against his remix of the alternate/group version of this song ('Good Vibrations' box/'Pet Sounds Sessions' box/etc). These two, at least as presented to us by Mark L., almost definitely do not use the same instrumental backing track take. Even disregarding the many mixing differences between the two versions, the Brian solo version is played in a higher key (which explains why I like it more than any other version. While the alternate/group version is in the same key as the official "I Know There's An Answer" master, and all variants of.

1. We know the master take of "Hang On To Your Ego"/"Let Go Of Your Ego"/"I Know There's An Answer" was recorded on February 9th. We have lots of documentation/evidence to prove this. And this seems to be an accepted fact by all sessionographers/official release notes since 1999.

2. Where did Keith Badman get his information that a February 7th session took place, and that there were two different rough mixes of the first/Brian only version of "Hang On To Your Ego" done that day? And why do people "in the know" (Mark L./AGD/etc) seem to doubt this (unless Capitol is still screwing up Mark's liner notes for official releases).

3. Would Alan Boyd be able to resolve this? Should I direct an inquiry into his "sticky"?

Thanks again for any help! And please correct me if I'm wrong about anything here!

Not sure if Mark's still alive...but I thought I should also praise when warranted, if I'm going to post criticism ("She Knows Me Too Well" remix).

I think the new remix of "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" came out great, and could easily be substituted for the original mono on future compilations (since that is how the BB camp likes things now anyway, but also because it deserves a wider audience than the 'Singles Collection' box.

I'm surprised it wasn't done for 'Sounds Of Summer'. Maybe there were still missing elements back then? It doesn't sound like anything is missing now, to me anyway.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If something is "missing", it must be inaudible to anyone but the "hardest of the hardcore".

Anyway, thanks Mark!

In Keith Badman's 'Recording Sessions' book, it says that the solo/guide vocal version of HOTYE was recorded on February 7th, 1966. That instrumental "master" take 12 was recorded, along with Brian's vocals, and that two different rough mono mixes were made.

Is this what Mark L. used to make the common/bonus track mono remix (as opposed to the "group" HOTYE that clearly must come from February 9th, and can be found on the 'GV' box - Disc #2)?

The 2001 'Pet Sounds' reissue claims that the Brian solo version is also derived from the February 9th session, when the other members first got back into the studio (post-touring) for vocal overdubbing. The reissue says that the final instrumental take for HOTYE/"I Know There's An Answer" was also recorded that day.

Badman's book mentions the same "Wrecking Crew" musicians from the 7th, as being on hand during the 9th. But he doesn't say what, if anything, they did on the 9th. He just talks about all the problems with getting the vocals down/Mike L. making fun of the lyrics/etc. Is Badman wrong about there even being a session on the 7th? I notice Andrew G. Doe's site doesn't even list that date in his recording sessions section.

Was the song re-recorded on the 9th, to provide the final master instrumental take (on which the initial "group" version of HOTYE, as well as all subsequent "I Know There's An Answer" vocals are clearly overdubbed onto)?

The "Feb. 7th"/solo HOTYE backing track always sounded, at least to me, like a completely different take from the final 'Pet Sounds' album master of IKTAA. Or am I just being thrown off by mixing differences?

Can anybody clear this up? Thanks!

This doesn't make sense to me.  The quote says that if HDCD peak extension is chosen in mastering (and was it chosen for the Beach Boys 2001 2fers) the compression "will be audible in palyback on a non HDCD system."  My non HDCD does not have an "appropriate expansion curve" whatever that is so yes, the added compression IS audible on non HDCD players.  If the peaks are not audible in 16 bit why does the quote say they will be audible?

The problem with that quote is that it is a tad too brief, it doesn't properly explain its own terms and is prone to be taken in other ways.  If you add 'then' -- it all makes easier sense.

"HDCD Peak Extension will apply compression to the peaks which will then be made audible in playback on a non-HDCD system, which does not apply the appropriate expansion curve."


So the peaks will be made audible not more compression as we think of it.

Wait. So are you saying "peak extension" gets used specifically for the benefit of playback in a non-HDCD environment, so as not to interfere with the original 16-bit dynamic range? If this is the case, then why is it even an optional feature in the HDCD encoding process? Why would it not be "built-in" to the original design? To save money? 

so if it "felt" right it was based on the composition being properly played

Which Dennis did...with the right "feel".   

I think what Luther is trying to say is that it's actually Brian who's responsible for your getting that "feel" off the organ playing. Which is natural, as it's one of the high points of the song. Maybe the highest? It basically marks the end of "section 1" of the "three parts" of the song. The song comes to a dead halt in a highly unusual/unexpected point, and you hear this creepy organ used as the transition into "section 2". It's absolute brilliance of the highest order. It's the reason why we should all be glad Brian got into the "fragmentary" writing style, even if it did result in horrible burnout/overwhelming confusion as to what part should go where...

"When I Grow Up" first officially appeared in stereo in 1993 on the GV box.

I thought that was just a stereo instrumental, or a binaural mix (1 "vocal" channel/1 "instrumental" channel), thrown in as a "bonus" on Disc 5?

That doesn't really count...unless your one of those strange people who like the first two Beatles albums in "stereo"...

Who was the engineer at Columbia then who would have overseen the eight track mixdown with Brian?

I believe that would still be Chuck. Boy genuises making millions of dollars for a company, can sometimes have union rules "relaxed" by said company...

My SOS has the "Original Stereo Version" of When I Grow Up.

It's a mislabel. There's no such thing as an "original stereo version" of that song. Unless you count duophonic...

The idea of Sounds of Summer was to present all the songs in stereo, remixing when possible, but I forgot that When I Grow Up somehow didn't make it into stereo fro that release.  I'll look at my SOT stereo Today/SDSN tonight and check out what's available there - but the "stereo" from that release is pretty dodgy, vocals on one channel, overdubs missing, etc.

I especially like how SOT "borrowed" "Kiss Me Baby" and "California Girls" from 'Endless Harmony'!

and She Knows Me Too Well and Please Let Me Wonder from the US singles collection.

...oh boy, that's what I was afraid of.  One of my favorite tracks of all time, in stereo at last... but I have to buy the entire singles collection to get it.  I don't suppose iTunes US is putting the tracks up individually yet?


Cheers,
Jon Blum

ITunes sells them individually. And, as someone else mentioned, Bicyclerider accidentally swapped "When I Grow Up" with "Please Let Me Wonder".

Note that stereo SKMTW is missing some original elements of the song. This is possibly why it was not previously considered as a remix candidate for the two previous, higher profile, compilations. Overall, it's still decent, but you will immediately notice the missing guitar part during the second half of the solo section. After the first guitar solos, there should be a completely different sounding guitar doing a "stab" solo. The guitar in this section is also missing from all the various SOT releases. So, it can be assumed it was recorded live as an overdub during mixdown, and no longer exists...

I was just wondering if someone could help me by telling me where this John Lennon quote comes from?

Taken from page 218 of Inside The Music Of Brian Wilson:

"This is the greatest! Turn it up, turn it right up. It's GOT to be a hit. It's the greatest record I've heard for weeks. It's fantastic. I hope it will be a hit. It's all Brian Wilson. He just uses the voices as instruments. He never tours or does anything. He just sits at home thinking up fantastic arrangements out of his head. Doesn't even read music. You keep waiting for the fabulous breaks. Great arrangement. It goes on and on with all different things. I hope it's a hit so I can hear it all the time."

This comes from Lennon's appearance on one of those UK "rate a record" TV shows in '65...They played new releases and had celebs "grade" them...I think it was Juke Box Jury.

Are you sure about this? All the Beatle books I have say their last appearance on JBJ was summer '64...

Either way -- a SMiLE box set has to happen!!

Instead, we get overpriced recycled hits/single compilations EVERY  F i C K I N G  summer!!!!

I'm pretty sure this is simply a matter of WHEN, not IF. When Brian passes? When Mike passes? Or both...

Yeah, this is a tough/unfamiliar one for me. I would also guess it's from 'Blind Date'. Lennon loved odd time signatures in songs, so I'm not surprised to see him gush over TLGIOK (even though it was just before 'Pet Sounds'/when it was "cool" for rock "aristocracy" to praise Brian to the high heavens)...

Anybody else find the thread title misleading? BWPS and the 'Rough Mixes' boot from the late 80's, have nothing to do with each other...

Hope you don't mind if I change the topic just for a moment, but does anyone else like to hear the whole '65 Chicago (iirc) concert from which "409" and "Shut down" are now available? A complete '65-concert with Brian... would be a great release and probably even sell some units

Dude. Just make your own thread. This has nothing to do with what we're discussing...

Realizing I might well be opening a whole new can of worms here, speaking as a modern-day professional engineer, I'm often sent untrimmed, completely unfaded master mixes to master for release. It's one of my jobs to "build in" the fade on the final production master, usually to the producer's specification. (I believe this practice started in the 1970s when parts of the industry embraced DBX noise reduction. DBX tends not to handle some fades, particularly those featuring dynamic percussion, that competently.)

While the recordings in question pre-date DBX by some years, could it be that some Beach Boys mixes exist without fades on their mixdown reels, with fade instructions in the paperwork? Just a thought.

P.S. Hello. It's nice to be around after several years of intermittent lurking!

Hi lupinofan!

At the very least, we know the mono master of 'Good Vibrations' has a much longer fade than what was pressed on 45. Steve Hoffman actually sought out B.Wilson's permission to extend the outro by an extra 10 seconds (Hoffman assuming that the GV fade was part of the song's "artistic statement...this appeared for the first time ever on the DCC 'Endless Summer'). Hoffman has relayed that Brian told him it was OK with him, because that fade (along with most/all of the BB single fades) was an arbitrary decision by executives at Capitol to appease radio programmers with concerns about play length.

In other words, Brian didn't care/have/want control over when his great singles faded. Which makes sense since, for no apparent reason, we've been getting the "shaft" on Hal Blaine's drum work on the end of CG for years. Despite the original 45 having at least an extra 5 seconds, all that ever seems to be issued is the almost too quick LP fade. Including on this new singles box...

But please, stop with those stereo remixes. Please let me wonder + Then I kiss her in stereo also fail to recapture the original magic.

I must be in the minority, because I like the stereo mixes for both of those songs, perhaps even better than the mono versions.

I definitely agree at least with respect to "Please Let Me Wonder". It's not perfect (too "wet", etc), but at least the song finally has some bottom end. There is ZERO bass response on the original. That's rare...

Until ITunes finally commits 100% to lossless (ALAC in their case), it can never replace the real thing...

Know of those discussions, and respect Hoffman's views and expertise - my point is that according to mjd180 "It's a competely different, and many would argue inferior, mix". And it isn't "completely different" by any criteria. I can hear more difference in the LP/45 mixes of "Never Learn Not to Love".

Keep in mind the context in which I made that quote. It was a direct response to someone who doubted it anything more than a difference in mastering...

Wait a tick: Is the LP mix of California Girls, as you call it, really a different MIX than the 45?  A top-to-bottom remix?  Or is it just a not-as-blistering mastering job as you would hear on a mint-condition 45?  I'm just going by the comparison with the single version in the "Good Vibrations" box set with the "Summer Days" HDCD two-fer.  Allowing for the HDCD they sound the same to me.  Now it was common practice in the 50s and 60s to cut 45 master disc "mothers" at a much hotter level than the original source master tape of the same song, which is why the LP versions may seem a little "flat" at first listen.   

It's a competely different, and many would argue inferior, mix. Not even used on the 'Good Vibrations' box (for whatever reason). It's surprisingly hard to find on cd. The 1999 'Greatest Hits, Vol.1' is one of the very few (and, by far, easiest) places it can be found...

Mark -

The She Knows Me remix from the new box set gave me chills.  Well done!

So you don't mind all the missing original guitar parts after the solo? Major omission. IMO, either Mr. Linett should not have remixed it, "flown in" the parts from the original mono (like he did for Mike's vocal in the bridge of "Wouldn't It Be Nice"), or let us know that there were going to be significant elements missing from the new remix of this song (be it here, beforehand, or in the notes on the box set)...

I wonder if this was a factor in not including this song on "The Warmth Of The Sun" compilation?