[is not]

Releasing a product that does not appeal to a specific consumer is not called a "rip off".

Releasing a product that does not contain what it purports to contain after a transaction has occurred is a "rip off".

See the difference?

I think the definition of the term is relative.  A completeist or collector, or somebody who hasn't already purchased the hits 30 times would probably not feel ripped off.  I ain't they.

Releasing a product that does not appeal to a specific consumer may not be a rip off, but I don't think you can blame said consumer for feeling ripped off.  This isn't 1995.  The market is moving inevitably toward an a la carte model.  What percentage of customers who will buy this box set do you think already have the hits and album tracks?  I'd bet 90%, and I bet Capitol knows that.  In an a la carte world, I personally feel it's disingenuous to expect customers to purchase something they've likely already purchased numerous times.

Of course customers have the right to do this. But first of all, you are not a customer if you are saying you won't buy the box set. Second of all, if you do buy the box set and THEN feel ripped of, then you just haven't done you research properly - e.g. you already know what's on the box. Of course you can be disappointed, and hoped for other/more tracks, but you there's no point in feeling ripped off since you don't actually have to buy the box set.

Here we go with the semantics.  I buy BB music.  I am a customer.  I have bought a good number of the songs on MIC numerous times.  Perhaps not a customer of this particular release in a certain format, but I am a customer.  There are many albums that I don't purchase initially for whatever reason, but end up eventually purchasing later when the terms of the release have changed.  Nobody held a gun to my head to by In the Key of Disney as a whole.  But I wasn't interested in all the tracks, and in order to buy the one track I was interested, I had to buy them all.  I do feel ripped off because in order to get the tracks I wanted, I had to purchase tracks I didn't want.  It was the only way to go.

So to humor you and play your word games, today I do not feel ripped off on the MIC set since I don't know yet if I'll be purchasing all or part of it.  If I don't end up buying the MIC set I won't feel ripped off.  If I buy the whole thing because of some limitation, I will feel ripped off.  If I can buy what I want to buy, I won't feel ripped off.

I find it a combination of funny and sad (I guess the term is tragicomic) how people can feel ripped of over a purchase that they are no way obliged to make.

I would only feel ripped off if I bought the whole thing.  If I can buy the individual tracks I want, I won't feel ripped off.  Nobody's obliged to do anything.  If it's all or nothing, they'll get exactly zero money from me at the price (non box set albums are a different story).  If it's line item, they'll get some money from me.  I don't think I'm alone here.  Again, maybe the $40 I spend on individual tracks isn't significant to anybody, but I have to think somebody in some office somewhere would prefer getting $40 over getting $0.

This isn't a box set for just the die hard fan, it's a box set for everyone

I'll be really surprised if casual to semi-serious fans buy this box set as a whole in large numbers.  If they're banking on the expectation that the average non die-hard fan will drive sales, I think they're sorely mistaken.

Well, looking at the Smile Sessions box set on Amazon, there's not a single track on there marked 'album only', and in fact you can buy the whole box set as MP3s for £37 -- while the physical box costs £109.58.

Sure, and I really appreciated that, but I buy a lot of music and more often than not there's at least one "album only" track.  When I bought In the Key of Disney last year, the most interesting track to me was album only, so I bought the whole thing.  Didn't want to do that, but it was all or nothing.  I think the complaint was justified there.  So TSS was all available individually (possibly from day one, likely not).  That doesn't guarantee MIC will be.

As for the "on release day", now you're getting unbelievably petty. So you really think it would be utterly unreasonable for those who just want to pay £1 for one track to have to wait a few weeks compared to those prepared to pay for the full box set?

I don't think it's unreasonable for somebody who doesn't want to buy the hits for the umpteenth time to hope to buy the tracks he doesn't have are available individually on release day.  Some albums are all or nothing for years before the tracks are available individually.  The label/music service has every right to do this, but I don't think it's petty for me to feel ripped off.

This isn't like ten years ago, where it was all or nothing. Then the complaints might have been justified -- now they're really not.

Not so fast.  What about the "album only" designation that these services give to key tracks?  Wouldn't be surprised to see "album only" on tracks like WIBNTLA.  They're not idiots.  If I can buy all of the tracks I want to buy individually-- on release day-- THEN the complaints won't be justified.  I'm not holding my breath.

Right. The BBs make money because of their fans. We have a right to evaluate the product they release and decide whether or not we want to buy it. I'm not demanding they release the rarities; I'm just saying this is a rip off for the diehard fan that already owns most of the material.

Exactly.  I refuse to buy the hits yet again.  In fact I make it a point never to buy the same song twice any more.  And since I'm not a completeist (yet), I have absolutely no problem cherry-picking from iTunes or Amazon.  This isn't an album in the sense that it's not a specially crafted set of new material meant to listen to front to back.  I'm not obligated as a fan to purchase the whole thing so I can listen to it as the artist intended for me to hear it.  And as a consumer, I'm not obligated to give in to the racket.  In fact, by purchasing the tracks I want individually, I'm sending the message-- however insignificant my voice may be-- that I won't be taken advantage of.

I really can't wait until the transition away from the CD/album format is complete.  I appreciate a good album (which is one reason I buy vinyl), but I'm sick of all the the bullcrap about CD space limitations and the whole mindset of needing to throw the hits into the digital package.  This would be a different story if I was a completeist, but fortunately I'm not (yet).  

And why not demand they release the rarities?  If somebody listens, great.  If not, no harm done.  I demand the Boys settle their differences and record together again (could care less about touring).  As a consumer I have a right to demand this, just as the artists have every right to completely ignore those demands.

I guess I'm saying I really love the way Brian constructs his tracks in the Pet Sounds/Smile period, there is so much innovation and out of the box thinking in his approach to making sound meld into something indescribably spiritual, I wish there was more of that type of organic approach around, and I did find more of it when i got into Dennis...he has a similar way of using the studio as an instrument of his creative process. He paints things with a Brian-like brush, and I'd assume most people who don't like Dennis do not because of his voice, or lyrics, or compositions, but underneath that there is something else of value that honors Brian in a way that IMO no one else nailed any better.

I hear you, Jon.

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags.

So you're saying if I just took a step back and realized that their approaches were similar, I'd start liking Dennis' stuff?  If they're so comparable, why do I perpetually have Pet Sounds/Smile songs in my head but must think hard to call a POB tune to mind?  

Again, I think there's a difference between appreciating music and liking music.  The more I learn about Smiley Smile, the more I appreciate it.  I still don't like it.  I don't appreciate Still Cruisin' and yet I really like it (that may actually be a good definition of 'guilty pleasure').  I appreciate classical music but I'll listen to just about anything instead.  If appreciation and liking happen to converge, great.  But it's certainly not a given.

Can't believe no one's mentioned this yet--It looks like we're finally getting that "rock 'n roll" album we've been hearing about for so many years!

That's what I was thinking too!  Jeck Beck?  Sounds like some guitar solos!!  

Who listens to Brian Wilson albums for the guitar solos?

I have a problem with the need to "get" certain music in order to like it.  I realize that an appreciation for music increases the more you get it (i.e., the more you understand the interlacing of context, style, personality, circumstance, etc.), but I take issue when somebody tells me that I don't like something because I don't get it.  I get the Dennis stuff, at least to an extent.  And I don't like most of it.  I probably wouldn't pay a dollar for any released Dennis song (individually), with the exception of Morning Christmas.  Of course I'm interested to hear WIBNTLA, but I certainly don't expect to be blown away by it.

I'm with you, dellydel.  My biggest beef so far is the instrumentation.  I didn't see any of the C50 shows, nor have I heard any recordings of them (aside from the tracks on the Isn't It Time EP).  From the postings here, I assumed the instrumentation would be deeper, more lush.  Not so, it seems-- unless the evil conspirators that screwed up all the vocals are messing with that too!

I think that's a deliberate decision. I think a couple of the guitars have been taken out of the mix altogether, and a couple of the keyboards as well. The unaltered recordings have a far thicker instrumental backing.

Even the live tracks on the Isn't It Time EP have far thicker instrumental backing.

I'm with you, dellydel.  My biggest beef so far is the instrumentation.  I didn't see any of the C50 shows, nor have I heard any recordings of them (aside from the tracks on the Isn't It Time EP).  From the postings here, I assumed the instrumentation would be deeper, more lush.  Not so, it seems-- unless the evil conspirators that screwed up all the vocals are messing with that too!

I dug the little outtro to TWGMTR and was hoping for more unique endings/riffs/medleys.  So far I'm disappointed on that front.  But in general, even just over Spotify, I think this sounds pretty good.

About Jeff, I've always thought he sounds more Wilson-esque on his own material than he does on BB material. 

We did not say, Hey, let's go for that Sea World sound."  Buy the physical CD, pop it in your CD player in your car, head down the highway on a sunny day… And crank that sucker up!!!  Once you've done this let me know what you think.

Will a highway along the Great Salt Lake in Utah do?  I don't buy new albums on CD any more; iTunes files are usually good enough for my ears (sacrilege, I know).  I've been playing the album in the car for a few weeks now and my opinion remains the same as my initial take.  I really don't care for Shrewd Awakening, Tonga Hut, or Jericho.  They seem out of place.  I do quite enjoy the rest of the record, though-- SeaWorld sound and all!

I thinking about taking my sons (ages 11, 9, 7) to a Casino gig near me next month.  Is the show pretty family friendly?  If you've gone to a casino gig, have you seen families at all? 

I always Spotify an album before buying, and here's a few quick thoughts from my initial Spotify listen:

-Standout tracks are Kitty Hawk, Star of the Beach, Don't Say It's Over, and the Airborne bookends (excluding the cheesy dialog).  I really like the vocal blend in the Airborne tracks.

-Don't' care much (yet) for Shrewd Awakening, Tonga Hut, or Jericho

-Audio quality and volume vary by track on Spotify, with a tinny sound overall.  Jericho sounds like a copy of a copy of a cassette tape.  Hope the actual CD and iTunes tracks sound better.

Overall feel of the album is bright, California-y (in the kitschy sense).  Honestly, it reminds me of the playlist looped at the food court at SeaWorld San Diego.  That's not an insult (I dig that loop).  Seems like they were going for that sound.  I think I've read somewhere that there's a reason for the campy dialog and cliche theme song.  Whatever it is, I haven't clued in yet.  If you're looking for a BB channeler, stick with Explorers Club.  All that said, I dig this album.

figures

How so?

As I understand it, the vocal multitracks are lost. The stereo mix on the Smiley Smile reissue was an extraction mix using the mono mix, and I think that's the closest they can come.

So if the best sounding release of GV is the 2012 Smiley Smile, what's the best sounding Heroes and Villains release?

I like it!

The new (since Pet Sounds '96) stereo mixes, are, on the whole "reconstructed from the sessions". That is to say, new multi tracks were made by synching up the track multis with the vocals.

Is this what you mean?

This is exactly what I mean.  I responded to this question shortly after your post, but it must have been lost in the server move.  Particularly on Good Vibrations, would the existing tapes suffice to faithfully reconstruct this song from the sessions?  If so, has anybody considered it?  Best BB song, IMO, and such a shame that the finished track sounds so inferior to the session tapes.  I understand, I guess, that given the technology of the time, this couldn't be avoided.  But GV is one of those cases where the whole, clarify/fidelity-wise, is inferior to the sum of its parts.

Thanks everybody, including Mr. Desper, for your comments

When it comes down to it, I appreciate the early stuff for the vocals (especially Brian's) and the Smile-era material for the music.

Sometimes it's just easier to listen to the earlier stuff because it's less challenging, it doesn't require as much of the listener in terms of emotional investment.

Should music be challenging?  Not sure I want to be challenged.  Should I have to put forth some effort to invest emotion?  Or would truly good music suck me in, and I've invested emotion before I realize it?  I have a hard time with music (BB or other) that I need to understand the writer or producer's frame of mind to see what genius it is. 

This is an extremely general observation, but I see Pet Sounds as the culmination of everything the Boys were doing to that point.  GV (although not on Pet Sounds) is the perfect example of that.  To me, Smile is more like a movie soundtrack.  No artists specifically come to mind, but you'll have an artist that releases straight albums and then provides a soundtrack to a film.  Same artist but totally different kinds of music.  I can't say which is "better" because the intent with each, it seems, is quite different.

To me-- and again this is very general and perhaps personal to me-- there are three eras or categories:

1. Surfin' Safari to Party!
2. Pet Sounds/Smile
3. Smiley Smile to SIP

I prefer eras 1 and 2 to 3 by a wide margin.

Would have been nice to see a post like "Hey, we're moving the board to a new server so expect some down time" a few days before the move might have been nice.  Just sayin'.

I don't have a digital copy of the 20/20 version to reference, but the difference between the two I remember is the bv's are much more prominent in the 20/20 version.  It's been a while since I've listened to that one, but I don't recall a big difference (if any at all) in the sound quality between the two.  Aside from the a capella vocals at the end of the Hawthorne version, what are the main differences?

Ok, I'm going to make another concession.  I've been cycling SS because of this debate and......turns out I really like "Little Pad."  I think what initially (and until just last night) turned me off about that track was the goof-off intro.  While I still hate that intro with a fiery passion, the simple track that follows is quite beautiful.  The wordless vocals sound just like (and I have no doubt that Brian was mimicking) the strings in what most people considered "Hawaiian" music at the time.  Flawlessly executed.  I also like the uke.

So there you go.  If we never got SS, I would miss the first minute or so of Vegatables and most of Little Pad.

Oh , gee, the beginning of another convert. I can't begin to fathom what a relief this is

I'm touched.