Except for vinyl. I'd suspect the majority of record purchases go to the under 45s.

Agreed.  I'm a vinyl nut, and most everybody I see in record stores buying vinyl is (by my estimation) mid-30's.

MONEY! From day one, I never thought otherwise. It's my decision to decide whether or not it is worth my hard-earned dollars. To me. it is.

Ok, but my point is that this is not targeted to John Q Public.  It's targeted to 45+, serious to diehard fans.  That being the case, people complaining about the inclusion of so many previously released tracks should be quite understandable-- everybody who will buy this box set has already purchased these tracks at least 10 times.

You're telling me that a casual fan that is 45 years or older is not part of John Q Public? Sure he is. He is just in a demographic that is more likely than not, willing to buy physical media.

I'm saying John Q Public is probably skewed toward 18-45 (probably closer to 14-45), and I'm saying it's unlikely that the casual fan will buy this box set.

MONEY! From day one, I never thought otherwise. It's my decision to decide whether or not it is worth my hard-earned dollars. To me. it is.

Ok, but my point is that this is not targeted to John Q Public.  It's targeted to 45+, serious to diehard fans.  That being the case, people complaining about the inclusion of so many previously released tracks should be quite understandable-- everybody who will buy this box set has already purchased these tracks at least 10 times.

Oh, so the rest of us above that age bracket doesn't exist on this Earth? Who the F do you think is buying and able to afford this box set? Surely not the 18-25 age bracket pissing and moaning about it in here.

I wouldn't consider this group a representative subset of the rest of society.

No, but the subset that buys physical media is surely 45 and above.

Exactly, which is why this approach to the box set doesn't make sense to me.  Who buys physical media?  45+.  Who has the money to drop on box sets?  45+.  Who is aware of and giddy at the prospect of unreleased material?  Diehards, most of whom I bet are 45+.  So then why exactly are they going with a box set that includes a bunch of hits and album cuts?

Oh, so the rest of us above that age bracket doesn't exist on this Earth? Who the F do you think is buying and able to afford this box set? Surely not the 18-25 age bracket pissing and moaning about it in here.

I wouldn't consider this group a representative subset of the rest of society.

John Q Public doesn't own any physical Beach Boys media at all.  He has a Spotify playlist and a total of 20 individual tracks he's culled together from various pre-Smile albums for .99 on iTunes.

Not sure about Nick, but congrats for coming up with the worst subject line for a message board ever.

I'm not a fan of the song but maybe it just wasn't the way Bri wanted Carl to go out on group releases.

If there's a better way for Carl to go out on a group release, I'd like to hear it.  Not saying the WoL is stellar, but I'd be giddy at the possibility that there's a usable, unreleased vocal gem from Carl just waiting to be finished into a BB song!  However, given the ticking clock and the way things are with the guys now, I fear Carl will never go out again on a group release.  If TWGMTR is the last proper BB album (and I believe it will be), it's too bad Brian couldn't work Carl in somewhere. 

For the record, TPLOBAS is one of my favorite tracks on the album (even though I hate the "grocery store" lyric).  My beef with TWGMTR tracks is production and mixing.  The songs themselves are great.

Whenever I hear a J&D song, I think of how much better it would be were the Beach Boys singing it.

I love the Pet Sounds sound, but I find myself skipping the majority of the tracks.  Least favorites: That's Not Me, Caroline, No, Pet Sounds.  However, WIBN, Sloop JB, and GOK are among my favorite BB tracks.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about it, I can't stand Disney Girls.  HATE that song.  Sounds like something I'd hear in an elevator of a proctologist's office.

That's how I feel, too. First, I can't get past the lyrics; they're terrible, amateurish.

Then it fits right in the BB catalog.  I can probably count on one hand the number of BB songs whose lyrics aren't terrible or amateurish.  I'm not in this for the lyrics.

There was a thread (or a few of them) a while back that I'd reference if I cared to search, but it seemed like the opinions of Waves of Love boiled down-- at least to an extent-- to which track we're talking about.  I believe there were at least three cuts of this track, all varying in sound and production quality.  The only copy I've heard is the version I bought on iTunes.  That actually sounds really good.  Had I not read the backstory, I would never have known it was a rough demo cut backstage somewhere.

Does somebody care to provide a run down of the different versions of this track?  How do they differ?

Not putting the reunion DIA on there is a stroke of madness, too. It'd be perfect, and I'd be able to actually have a copy - screw importing a 'zinepack' from America.

That dumb 'zinepack' is a perfect example of a rip-off.  If you want 2012 Do It Again, the ONLY way to get it is to purchase a dozen of the hits *yet again.*  When DIA didn't make 50 Big Ones, I bought the zinepack.  Nice little mag, I guess, but another tick on my tally of how many times I've purchased these songs.  As a customer of this particular product, I suppose I'm entitled to complain:)

What sucks too is that the live version of DIA on the Isn't It Time EP is superior to the 2012 studio version.  That you can buy a la carte.

aeijtzsche, the track list is pretty much what I expected, and I'm pretty impressed.  If I have any beef at all, it's with this type of box set in general.  As a die-hard fan (but non completeist), I'll probably end up buying most of these tracks.  But does whoever called the shots really think the casual fan will buy this?

I hope that option is available to you and others in your boat (and have no reason to see why it won't). I did this for TSS. I bought the standard edition as I had zero interest in hearing a zillion H&V sessions etc.... I then downloaded the odds and ends from the deluxe set that I wanted off amazon for under a tenner.

I assume this will be the case.  My argument was more philosophical than anything else.  Watch them make the a Capella version of "This Whole World" album only, just to stick it to me:)

This box set is nothing more than what it has always purported to be. A career spanning retrospective with some rarities thrown in for good measure. If any of you feel "ripped off" it's because you placed (yourself) unrealistic expectations on the product and you can blame nowt but yourselves for that. The hyperbole and hand wrenching and (self)righteous indignation is getting really tiresome.

For the record, I never expected anything more than a career spanning retrospective with some rarities.  No gripes there, and no unrealistic expectations.  I'm cool with the content.  I just hope to be able to purchase only the tracks I want.  

[is not]

Releasing a product that does not appeal to a specific consumer is not called a "rip off".

Releasing a product that does not contain what it purports to contain after a transaction has occurred is a "rip off".

See the difference?

I think the definition of the term is relative.  A completeist or collector, or somebody who hasn't already purchased the hits 30 times would probably not feel ripped off.  I ain't they.

Releasing a product that does not appeal to a specific consumer may not be a rip off, but I don't think you can blame said consumer for feeling ripped off.  This isn't 1995.  The market is moving inevitably toward an a la carte model.  What percentage of customers who will buy this box set do you think already have the hits and album tracks?  I'd bet 90%, and I bet Capitol knows that.  In an a la carte world, I personally feel it's disingenuous to expect customers to purchase something they've likely already purchased numerous times.

Of course customers have the right to do this. But first of all, you are not a customer if you are saying you won't buy the box set. Second of all, if you do buy the box set and THEN feel ripped of, then you just haven't done you research properly - e.g. you already know what's on the box. Of course you can be disappointed, and hoped for other/more tracks, but you there's no point in feeling ripped off since you don't actually have to buy the box set.

Here we go with the semantics.  I buy BB music.  I am a customer.  I have bought a good number of the songs on MIC numerous times.  Perhaps not a customer of this particular release in a certain format, but I am a customer.  There are many albums that I don't purchase initially for whatever reason, but end up eventually purchasing later when the terms of the release have changed.  Nobody held a gun to my head to by In the Key of Disney as a whole.  But I wasn't interested in all the tracks, and in order to buy the one track I was interested, I had to buy them all.  I do feel ripped off because in order to get the tracks I wanted, I had to purchase tracks I didn't want.  It was the only way to go.

So to humor you and play your word games, today I do not feel ripped off on the MIC set since I don't know yet if I'll be purchasing all or part of it.  If I don't end up buying the MIC set I won't feel ripped off.  If I buy the whole thing because of some limitation, I will feel ripped off.  If I can buy what I want to buy, I won't feel ripped off.

I find it a combination of funny and sad (I guess the term is tragicomic) how people can feel ripped of over a purchase that they are no way obliged to make.

I would only feel ripped off if I bought the whole thing.  If I can buy the individual tracks I want, I won't feel ripped off.  Nobody's obliged to do anything.  If it's all or nothing, they'll get exactly zero money from me at the price (non box set albums are a different story).  If it's line item, they'll get some money from me.  I don't think I'm alone here.  Again, maybe the $40 I spend on individual tracks isn't significant to anybody, but I have to think somebody in some office somewhere would prefer getting $40 over getting $0.

This isn't a box set for just the die hard fan, it's a box set for everyone

I'll be really surprised if casual to semi-serious fans buy this box set as a whole in large numbers.  If they're banking on the expectation that the average non die-hard fan will drive sales, I think they're sorely mistaken.

Well, looking at the Smile Sessions box set on Amazon, there's not a single track on there marked 'album only', and in fact you can buy the whole box set as MP3s for £37 -- while the physical box costs £109.58.

Sure, and I really appreciated that, but I buy a lot of music and more often than not there's at least one "album only" track.  When I bought In the Key of Disney last year, the most interesting track to me was album only, so I bought the whole thing.  Didn't want to do that, but it was all or nothing.  I think the complaint was justified there.  So TSS was all available individually (possibly from day one, likely not).  That doesn't guarantee MIC will be.

As for the "on release day", now you're getting unbelievably petty. So you really think it would be utterly unreasonable for those who just want to pay £1 for one track to have to wait a few weeks compared to those prepared to pay for the full box set?

I don't think it's unreasonable for somebody who doesn't want to buy the hits for the umpteenth time to hope to buy the tracks he doesn't have are available individually on release day.  Some albums are all or nothing for years before the tracks are available individually.  The label/music service has every right to do this, but I don't think it's petty for me to feel ripped off.

This isn't like ten years ago, where it was all or nothing. Then the complaints might have been justified -- now they're really not.

Not so fast.  What about the "album only" designation that these services give to key tracks?  Wouldn't be surprised to see "album only" on tracks like WIBNTLA.  They're not idiots.  If I can buy all of the tracks I want to buy individually-- on release day-- THEN the complaints won't be justified.  I'm not holding my breath.

Right. The BBs make money because of their fans. We have a right to evaluate the product they release and decide whether or not we want to buy it. I'm not demanding they release the rarities; I'm just saying this is a rip off for the diehard fan that already owns most of the material.

Exactly.  I refuse to buy the hits yet again.  In fact I make it a point never to buy the same song twice any more.  And since I'm not a completeist (yet), I have absolutely no problem cherry-picking from iTunes or Amazon.  This isn't an album in the sense that it's not a specially crafted set of new material meant to listen to front to back.  I'm not obligated as a fan to purchase the whole thing so I can listen to it as the artist intended for me to hear it.  And as a consumer, I'm not obligated to give in to the racket.  In fact, by purchasing the tracks I want individually, I'm sending the message-- however insignificant my voice may be-- that I won't be taken advantage of.

I really can't wait until the transition away from the CD/album format is complete.  I appreciate a good album (which is one reason I buy vinyl), but I'm sick of all the the bullcrap about CD space limitations and the whole mindset of needing to throw the hits into the digital package.  This would be a different story if I was a completeist, but fortunately I'm not (yet).  

And why not demand they release the rarities?  If somebody listens, great.  If not, no harm done.  I demand the Boys settle their differences and record together again (could care less about touring).  As a consumer I have a right to demand this, just as the artists have every right to completely ignore those demands.

I guess I'm saying I really love the way Brian constructs his tracks in the Pet Sounds/Smile period, there is so much innovation and out of the box thinking in his approach to making sound meld into something indescribably spiritual, I wish there was more of that type of organic approach around, and I did find more of it when i got into Dennis...he has a similar way of using the studio as an instrument of his creative process. He paints things with a Brian-like brush, and I'd assume most people who don't like Dennis do not because of his voice, or lyrics, or compositions, but underneath that there is something else of value that honors Brian in a way that IMO no one else nailed any better.

I hear you, Jon.

It would seem that many people who don't like Dennis' stuff completely miss that so much of POB and Bambu are the closest anyone got to the Pet Sounds/Smile Brian in the way the tracks are constructed...instruments layered, eclectic choices of instruments, arrangements avoiding a verse/chorus normality, great tags.

So you're saying if I just took a step back and realized that their approaches were similar, I'd start liking Dennis' stuff?  If they're so comparable, why do I perpetually have Pet Sounds/Smile songs in my head but must think hard to call a POB tune to mind?  

Again, I think there's a difference between appreciating music and liking music.  The more I learn about Smiley Smile, the more I appreciate it.  I still don't like it.  I don't appreciate Still Cruisin' and yet I really like it (that may actually be a good definition of 'guilty pleasure').  I appreciate classical music but I'll listen to just about anything instead.  If appreciation and liking happen to converge, great.  But it's certainly not a given.

Can't believe no one's mentioned this yet--It looks like we're finally getting that "rock 'n roll" album we've been hearing about for so many years!

That's what I was thinking too!  Jeck Beck?  Sounds like some guitar solos!!  

Who listens to Brian Wilson albums for the guitar solos?