It could have been worse, they could have gotten an actual annoying personality. Reiner is likeable. At this event, he was essentially a more energetic, dynamic version of a Larry King type. But again, I think it's fair to call the thing what it is. They could have snagged a Howie Edelson, or Alan Boyd, or heck, even Jerry Schilling, to do the event, all additional people who have good relationships with all factions, and who would also understand how to strike a balance between softball, obvious questions (e.g. "did you guys surf?", "why has your music endured all these years?") and something a bit more substantive without going into "Drip Drop/Lazy Lizzie/That Special Feeling" deep cut territory.

I think the Reiner selection was emblematic of the SiriusXM channel in general. That is, it's a nice project that has gone over well enough and certainly hasn't hurt anything, but which hasn't really lived up to its full potential.

I wonder if they considered Stamos?

You know, as dumb as this sounds, he might be the perfect person to get the guys together for a good, more in depth interview. As much as we like to drag him with the whole Uncle Jessie/Full House cheesefest, you have to admit that the guy is truly a big fan of the group and could probably get them to talk more about the "deep cuts", and maybe the workings of specific songs, etc.

Would never happen because he quite obviously is to most observers a member of Club Kokomo. While I'm sure Stamos is a wonderful guy, we've heard what Brian's band think of him, and I'm sure that wouldn't be lost on Melinda (and therefore Brian as well).

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.

I see that coming up a lot. Has anybody actually seen the email or is it bard completely on hearsay?

The actual e-mail has never been published; Mike mentions it in his book. I think the headline on that one is that it's perfectly plausible in my mind that the e-mail does exist and was sent. But it's a literal red herring. It had zero to do with the demise of C50. Going back to my previous message in this thread, Mike has not been shy about expressing a litany of reasons he had issues with the C50 tour, and he has always freely admitted that by the end of the tour, Brian DID want to continue and Mike *chose* to go back to his own thing.

By the time that e-mail was allegedly sent, I believe the reunion was already dead as an ongoing, "in perpetuity" thing. The alleged e-mail was the equivalent of shooting someone after they've already died of a heart attack or something. And, again, assuming the e-mail is legit and in proper context, *all parties* including Mike agree that Brian changed his mind and wanted to continue by the end of the tour.

See, even the "no more dates for the Wilsons" thing I think is kinda nonsense. I always kinda took it to mean, "no more dates on this leg of the tour," since, ya know, everything Brian had said during the tour signaled wanting to do more with The Beach Boys. So, just my take.

There are reasons why I like what I like.my solution was the song that made me want to get into the band. That and the alternative til I die.

Have you heard the 1980 version of "My Solution"? Brian cut a backing track for it in 1980:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk

Ironically, even though the band had released "Shortenin' Bread" the previous year on 1979's "LA (Light Album)", Brian also cut *another* backing track for "Shortenin' Bread" around that same time in 1980.

And interestingly, apparently both the tracks for the 1980 versions of both "My Solution" and "Shortenin' Bread" were apparently taped for inclusion on a song called "Song Within a Song" if I remember correctly. Perhaps c-man or somebody could clarify if I'm wrong?

Hola Becca! I'd enjoyed your posting over at that other board and was hoping youd join over here, as I think some of the "facts" they were trying to push on you, were...shall I say, sketchy.

It's always struck me as a bit odd how the band seemingly consciously tried to copy the late '60s guitar sounds of artists like Jimi Hendrix on "Bluebirds Over the Mountain".

While I like this song, and I kinda dig the guitar sounds on it, I can imagine that at the time it must have come across as a slightly clunky and obvious attempt to be "hip" and sound like the cool kids. It does feel a bit like the band was trying way too hard. Especially since it was a one-off type of sound on just that one song, although songs like "All I Want to Do" get into this territory a bit too.

Did people (including hardcore fans of the band during the wilderness era) also feel that way at the time (that the band was trying a little too hard)? I don't want to compare it to a song like "Summer in Paradise", but I think there's a comparison to be made for the band trying to dip their toe into a largely unrelated genre just in a somewhat desperate attempt to be "cool". But like I said, I kinda dig it anyway.

And whose idea was it to go for this guitar sound? I believe Ed Carter plays on "Bluebirds", but somebody in the band presumably had to be driving those types of decisions to attempt to merge that Hendrix screeching guitar sound with The BBs.

Also - supposing "Bluebirds" had been a big hit; would we have gotten a whole followup album of The BBs trying to sound like Hendrix?

I can totally dig what you are trying to say here, and in fact have basically thought the same thing before.

And I think we have to remember who was the driving force to in what I assume was a somewhat desperate attempt to sound "hip" or "current"....

....and that would be one Mr. Bruce Johnston.

I personally don't think any of the other guys (at that time) would've conceived of anything as obvious of a trend hopper as that one. Bruce's thing a lot of the time, to be honest, was to take somebody else's sound and do a copycat version of it. So of course when given the chance with The Beach Boys, he tried to hop aboard the "heavy guitar" train meshed with a Mike Love lead vocal.

And to be honest, I kinda dig it. But it seemed to me at least, to be a bit of a pander to an audience that likely wouldn't be into their stuff.

<<I think he has used the name "The Jan & Dean Show featuring Dean Torrence" or something like that, which I must say is lame. I get WHY he'd need to do that, but unlike a "Jeff Lynne's ELO" type thing where it's describing a different version of a band, Jan's name is right in the name, and it makes his absence all that much more obvious.>>

"The Jan & Dean Show" name legally goes back to 1978.  Dean gave Jan permission to use "Jan & Dean" for his solo tours early that year provided he was billed as "The Jan & Dean Show featuring Jan Berry."  At some venues, including the shows I attended at the Decatur, Illinois "Macon County Light Company" in March of 1978,  the billing was simply "Jan & Dean," on the marquee and in newspaper ads, which caused audiences members to periodically shout "Where's Dean?"  Band members usually replied that Dean was out in their RV.  Later that Spring and early summer, Jan actually toured with a fake Dean.

Toured with a fake Dean? That's class, right there. 

I could add some more snark, but it's too easy...some would say certain Beach Boys have been touring with fake...oh, never mind. 

To be honest, a fake Dean isn't exactly a bad thing. The real one is a bit of a jerk-off.

When's Bruce going to do a Q&A panel as part of a "Hot Doggers" reunion? THAT'S the big question.

Let's hope at least we don't have to hear Bruce go *on and on* about the individual credit scores of each "Wrecking Crew" member......

Well considering the other Hot Dogger is Terry Melcher, and he is dead, that might be tough.

Well, it hasn't stopped "The Beach Boys" post-Dennis/Carl (and Al, and Brian), so you never know. 

Didn't Dean Torrence continue using the "Jan & Dean" name in some form after Jan's death?

I think he has used the name "The Jan & Dean Show featuring Dean Torrence" or something like that, which I must say is lame. I get WHY he'd need to do that, but unlike a "Jeff Lynne's ELO" type thing where it's describing a different version of a band, Jan's name is right in the name, and it makes his absence all that much more obvious.

When's Bruce going to do a Q&A panel as part of a "Hot Doggers" reunion? THAT'S the big question.

Let's hope at least we don't have to hear Bruce go *on and on* about the individual credit scores of each "Wrecking Crew" member......

Well considering the other Hot Dogger is Terry Melcher, and he is dead, that might be tough.

["Surf's Up"]

1 "Surf's Up"
2 "Wouldn't It Be Nice"
3 "Please Let Me Wonder"
4 "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)"
5 "Good Vibrations"
6 "Sail on, Sailor"
7 "Good Timin'"
8 "Cool, Cool Water"
9 "I Went To Sleep"
10 "Heroes and Villains"

And I'm sure this would change an hour from now probably, haha. 

[Smiley]

Schwartzman is BBs fan? Cool. Did he list favorite songs?

I believe he did a top 10 countdown. Heard him introducing a BB Today ballad and talking about it as a precursor to Pet Sounds.

Yeah, I remember Schwartzman has been a Beach Boys fan for a long, long while. I can remember reading an interview with him in like 2004 or so, where he was talking about the greatness of the group from like Smiley through 20/20 or something of that nature, which I thought was cool, because this was still before Brian had released BWPS and so obviously a bit before it started to become a bit more "mainstream" to dig the mid-period Beach Boys. So I gotta respect that.

And this is coming from a guy (me) who, though I respect Jason S.'s acting talent (he's been in quite a few great movies like Rushmore and a few others), kinda thinks of him as a super annoying hipster.

[Unleash The Love]

How was the show? I'm going to catch it later this week

The show was great. I had only seen them perform once before a few years back but Mike seemed much more confident vocally than the previous show I saw/the 4th of July shows I’ve seen on TV. I swear he sounded 20 years younger. Vintage ’80s/’90s nasal glory in places. And all the band member features were great for the most part. Great energy too.

Wait, so now we are considering Mike's '80s and '90s vocals as his "glory"? From what I remember, a lot of us were happy by the early '00s when Mike finally started toning down the nasality and sounded much better vocally. And while we are at it, at least on Unleash The Love he sounded really rough on his classic leads, like "I Get Around" and such. Though I guess through all the autotune, he sounded good on "Fun Fun Fun" and despite the horrid surrounding production he sounded pretty great on "Do It Again".

[Rubber Soul]

Heard song from Bob Sled and the Toboggans
“Here We Go”. Not a bad song. Had some good harmonies.

Am I the only person that finds this hilarious! They actually played that piece of sh*t!

By the way, Bruce's Bob Sled group released their only single the same month that "Caroline No" and "Sloop John B" were released. It is amazing that Brian was in a group at the time with a guy who thought in that point in time (post-Rubber Soul, post-British Invasion) that it was a good idea to make a "surfer's going skiing" record to apparently "cash in" on that "trend." And no, I'm not doing a filledeplage homage there, I just don't know what would possess anyone to make such a blatant attempt to cash-in on something that at the same time was so out of style musically by that point. That'd be like me making a new version of "Who Let the Dogs Out" in 2003 and expecting that it was the perfect time for that to hit.

I really do wish somebody could do a really nice, long-form interview with Bruce where he could discuss all these freaking insane projects he's done over the years. Of the all the Beach Boys and their sweet insanity, he seriously holds his own.

[No Pier Pressure]

Speaking of this, what “holy grail” remains for you guys that is left in the vaults? CF 74 was mine for many years and when I heard it on mic it was almost cathartic . I personally want to hear more Brian stuff from the early to mid 70s

Mine probably were "Where Is She?" and the 1974 "California Feelin'" demo. And then the Brian solo version of "In The Back Of My Mind" from 1975. Honestly on "In The Back Of My Mind" I never really expected it cuz at first I wasn't sure it really existed and then I didn't think it'd truly get released. When it got released on the certain versions of No Pier Pressure I couldn't believe it.

As far as now? I don't know. Probably the same as you. But I have to be honest, while there is more early to mid '70s Brian music to be released (like "Spark in the Dark" and "Rooftop Harry") I don't think there are many (if any) more lead vocals available from that era from him (at least those that haven't already been heard by many, like "Awake").

I suppose that if it exists in a recorded form my number one want would be "Just an Imitation" but I honestly don't think that one is around.

Then after that era, I'd love to hear "Boys and Girls", "Sweetie", "Why Didn't I Tell You" and of course any post L.A. (Light Album) stuff from Denny, especially "Labor Day" and any supposed Denny/Christine McVie sessions.

[Pet Sounds]

People, “game changer” (or whatever equivalent term) means getting the appropriate media attention focused specifically on the wealth of  *unheard* songs/material. To even just start to change perceptions.

Eh, maybe that's your definition. But there have been those saying that this is more important than the members doing more work together or indeed ever touring together again. And it also has a tinge of wanting The Beach Boys to be something different than they are, like these people want the so-called "cool people" to like The Beach Boys instead of just enjoying the music and the story and understanding that Brian, Mike, Carl, Al and even Dennis aren't David Bowie or Bob Dylan or whatever. But to be honest, I'm a guy in my mid-30s and to me it seems that to people around my age and in their 20s and whatnot, The Beach Boys are about equal with so called "cooler" groups from back in the day like The Who or Zep or what have you.

So yeah, while I don't think the vault of unreleased material is the main thing, I do think that promoting the already released catalog is very important, pushing the importance of not only the wonderful '62 to '65 material and Pet Sounds and SMiLE, but also the '67 to '74 era and I think in time even the '75 to '79 or even '85 era, as appreciation for these eras grow as I suspect they will. The vault will help tell the story and keep people interested though.

[I don't want to besmirch any other band, but as someone who's quite aware of what's in several other group's vaults, of the "majors" (and I'm not exaggerating), The Beach Boys are the ONLY one where if its unreleased material was finally released, the entire narrative changes and history gets a revamp. The BB's are the only band who can get a 10th life from what they left on the cutting room floor. The Grateful Dead definitely do not have five more "Sugar Magnolia's" tucked away in the vault -- The BB's have 15.]

In a discussion last year that initially centered around "Sunshine Tomorrow", Howie Edelson said this:

I don't want to besmirch any other band, but as someone who's quite aware of what's in several other group's vaults, of the "majors" (and I'm not exaggerating), The Beach Boys are the ONLY one where if its unreleased material was finally released, the entire narrative changes and history gets a revamp. The BB's are the only band who can get a 10th life from what they left on the cutting room floor. The Grateful Dead definitely do not have five more "Sugar Magnolia's" tucked away in the vault -- The BB's have 15.

I don't want to speak for Howie, but I sense he was talking more about "Carry Me Home" and more Dennis material, and "Bedroom Tapes" type of material more than alternate session breakdowns and takes for "California Girls" and "Surfin' Safari" and "Fun Fun Fun."

Remember, especially when it comes to the 70s and 80s, there is TONS of stuff we've *never* even heard or maybe even heard *of.*

Maybe I'm just not understanding or getting what is meant by the term "game changer" or changing the narrative. Is it changing the game in terms of the general public opinion, or among hardcore fans of the band?

A few things come to mind. First, would "Made In California" as released with all the previously unheard tracks be considered a game-changer? Did the wealth of outtakes and unheard tracks cause opinions or perceptions to noticeably shift after people heard the set? Or if not, what archival/vault releases without the names "Pet Sounds" or "Smile" had such a game-changing impact outside the diehard fanbase?

(I'd say that '93 box set was indeed a game changer, but I also think the bulk of the reasons why centered around the Smile material)

And I cannot understand where there is appeal to anyone but the most obsessive completists and collector/diehards to hear ANYTHING languishing in the vaults from the late 70's or 80's. The released albums were ignored when they were released, and are still mostly ignored to this day. And I think a lot of it has to do with the songs themselves, and the sounds used in terms of the way they were making records at that time. I don't get the appeal.

And I surely don't see where KTSA or MIU or BB85 outtakes are going to cause a seismic game-changing shift in public opinion. But that's just my take.

You know GF, as much as I sometimes see things differently than you, I do totally agree with you that the term "game changer" for the remaining unreleased material is a bit too much. While I agree with those posters who have said that they think the truly unreleased material would have more effect than raw sessions of "California Girls" or whatever, I still don't think the truly unreleased, unheard titles will be setting even the Pitchfork/Stereogum/NPR type communities ablaze, much less the larger public narrative.

The best case scenario is likely the kind of reception that something like Made In California or Sunshine Tomorrow probably got around a few non-hardcore fans who heard a few things that weren't what they expected from The Beach Boys and it turned them into fans. I think that is possible. But not on a large scale. I personally think reissuing albums like Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland and even ones like (yes) 15 Big Ones and (yep) L.A. (Light Album) with a decent amount of bonus material would be the smartest way to go. Highlight the actual albums, and the great material that actually made it onto those albums and then supplement it with some unreleased stuff. But no, as great as the unreleased stuff is, I don't think there is anything in the vault that is gonna make releasing Sunflower or Surf's Up or Holland as they are look like a bad idea. But stuff like "Carry Me Home", all of those unreleased 15 Big Ones-era covers and L.A. (Light Album) and Keepin' The Summer Alive outtakes will help complete the picture of what this band is. But I don't think any of it will change the basic picture in the first place like some people think. Maybe I'm wrong and there are more "Please Let Me Wonder" quality things and more even Wild Honey quality albums in the vault. But I suspect it's more like oddities like "Loop de Loop" and the 1970 version of "Back Home" and whatnot. And that's fine with me.

I will say though, as far as Dennis Wilson solo material, there may well be something closer to the so-called "game changers." I think there is a lot of "there" there that we may not know of. And maybe it's that's what these people are speaking of, then maybe I'm with them.

I was surpised to learn this in this 1985 Record Collector article: “Less well-known is the fact that before Capitol issued the medley, the Beach Boys had themselves attempted to create their own version of the gimmick, re-recording several of their major hits in tandem. This was scrapped when neither the group nor their record company could bear to listen to the results.” What I would give to hear this recording. I don’t wanna wait until 2031!

http://www.mountvernonandfairway.de/downloads/pdf/record_collector_jan_1985_no65.pdf

I wonder if this is really true. The whole article seems on point with their info, but I don't think I'd ever heard that they had ever tried to actually do a true medley recording on their own.

Alls I know is I'm waiting to hear something by Bob Sled & the Toboggans.

[Going Public]

None of this stuff is a-list material, but I'd probably rather hear Bruce's rendition of "Sealed with a Kiss" than more "Hot Doggers" material.

I actually really kinda liked Bruce and Terry's "Sealed with a Kiss" for whatever reason. Probably the best thing Bruce has done since...um...."Disney Girls"? Kinda says a bit about how dire Going Public, California Music and the few Beach Boys tunes he's written since returning to the band have been. But truly, I do like it. And yes I know it's a cover, before anybody says I'm giving him too much credit.

Does strike me as odd that it was released as "The Ripchords" though...

I've always found in interesting (in a nerdy way) that the BBs almost surely must have NOT been aware that the song they were selecting to sing with Ringo, "Back in the USSR", is one of the hand full of songs *without* Ringo on drums on the White Album, having been cut while he had temporarily "left" the band.

I've find that amusing for a while as well. The thought must have went through Ringo's head at some point. It's like having Brian Wilson on as a guest to sing "Kokomo" or "I Can Hear Music" or something.

[The SMiLE Sessions]

We know that there was a planned bonus disc for MIC which was to include the Brian mono instrumental mix of Child (the 3 ' version) followed by the instrumental track of Little Bird which would show how Brian recycled the chorus into that track.  Do we know what else was to be included on the bonus disc?  Hopefully both tracks will show up on the Friends copyright 50th anniversary release!

Yes! I forgot about reading this in a recent issue of ESQ. Is that where you heard about this as well? I am pretty bummed to see that this version "Child Is Father Of The Man" somehow didn't make either The SMiLE Sessions or Made In California, but I could see, using your logic that it would be sensible to release it alongside an instrumental "Little Bird" as they were planning to on Made In California, instead on a new set.

But yeah, about what else woulda been on this bonus disc? I would love to know! Just instrumentals and alternates? Or maybe something like the last disc on Made In California where alongside the instrumentals and whatnot, you also got stuff like "Where Is She?" and "Barnyard Blues" and others. Hopefully somebody knows...

Ian,

This whole "This week in BB History" thing you do is probably my favorite part of this board. You always manage to tease out some minor but super, super interesting tidbits that make visiting this board all the more worth it. If only all this could be collected in book form! And yes, I know of (and own) the tour book, but an overall Badman style book (but obviously much better with your unparalleled research) would be amazing!

Mike understandably fails to mention that perhaps if he hadn't thwarted the Wilson brothers' more progressive musical direction after 1975, iconoclastic as it may have been, in favor of commerciality at all costs, they wouldn't have been so frustrated and felt a need to increasingly turn to hard drugs to escape such a creatively stifling professional situation.

I’m not a Mike apologist, and I hate that he badmouths dead relatives and bandmates, but blaming him for the Wilsons’ drug use is really unfair, in my opinion. 

It certainly didn't help in  Brian's case, as he was less of a "party" guy and more someone who did drugs as a way to escape his turmoil.

Dennis was different, in the sense he WAS a party guy, someone who was always wanting to push things to the extremes.

Denny was a party guy, yeah. But let's also not think that this was the only reason he abused substances as well. Plenty of turmoil is his life as well he was obviously wishing to escape (this being true for many, if not most addicts).

I don't see anything about Brian in the hospital?

There's a video there that elaborates more than the article.

Thanks for pointing that out Amy. Totally didn't notice!

I don't see anything about Brian in the hospital?

I wonder if Bill Jackson joins him.

Does anybody else kinda feel like "Bill Jackson" is a bullshit name made up to describe a person that doesn't exist in a situation that never happened?

Also, does Mike actually surf? The way he hobbles around, I can't see him surfing.

[Still Cruisin']

Problem Child actually isn’t too bad apart from the production!

I like it in the same way that I like "Make It Big" and stuff of that ilk. It's bombastic (yet super smooth in a way) '80s cheese. And I likes me some '80s cheese here and there. Probably explains why I like the Still Cruisin' album.