But a lot of people who were there at the time were saying that he was moving pieces around from here to there, unsure of how to fit things together.

 

Did witnesses say that? I don't remember, but if they did it isn't supported by the primary sources: Brian calling out on the recordings, in tapebox notes, and on session sheets what song each of the recordings were for and their place in the composition on the master.

So I'm responding to a statement that was similar to hearing a comment about "Chevrolet tires", it wasn't lining up to me because Pro Tools is not pitch correction, it's recording/mixing/editing software and pitch correction plug-ins are separate items to install. What was he talking about exactly, editing? Comping vocal tracks? Pitching up a trailing vocal note at the end of a phrase? If it were more definite I'd have a more definite answer, but Cam's wording of "Pro Tools pitch correction" is like "Chevrolet tires" to me, and I don't know what he's referring to, or whether Cam can clarify more on what Brian was referring to in that podcast interview.

With that out of the way...

You could have listened to the entire interview and heard Brian's own words in the time it took you to post whatever that was.  Did you listen to Brian's own words and did I misstate it?

I did listen to it - before posting anything about it! That's why I didn't reply immediately and apparently was challenged on why i didn't reply - i had to actually listen first. That's also why I asked if maybe you had more of a clarification on not just what Brian said but your term "Pro Tools pitch correction" which is a misnomer, unless it's referring to a function in Pro Tools that I'm pretty confident most working engineers of the level who would be working a Brian Wilson session would not use, and would instead use one of the plug-ins from other manufacturers that I'd estimate are used in 99 out of 100 working, pro-studio situations. or maybe I'm wrong, maybe the latest updates to Pro Tools as of 2014-15 have something built in, I'm not sure.

I guess it's coming from having actually done work in this area and with some of this software that has me confused about the terminology being used. It's hard to comment either way when I'm not sure exactly what is being described, or what was used and how it was used. I tried to give examples but I guess they didn't suffice.

Then your diversion from Brian's words are even harder to understand.  Your argument isn't with me or my characterization. You have Brian's words, you may direct your arguments to him.

So I'm responding to a statement that was similar to hearing a comment about "Chevrolet tires", it wasn't lining up to me because Pro Tools is not pitch correction, it's recording/mixing/editing software and pitch correction plug-ins are separate items to install. What was he talking about exactly, editing? Comping vocal tracks? Pitching up a trailing vocal note at the end of a phrase? If it were more definite I'd have a more definite answer, but Cam's wording of "Pro Tools pitch correction" is like "Chevrolet tires" to me, and I don't know what he's referring to, or whether Cam can clarify more on what Brian was referring to in that podcast interview.

With that out of the way...

You could have listened to the entire interview and heard Brian's own words in the time it took you to post whatever that was.  Did you listen to Brian's own words and did I misstate it?

Chill Cam....ticked in that he didn't have the opportunity to sing it originally, not ticked as in ticked off angry at anyone in particular.

My apologies. Duly noted.

Also - check this out    :

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/06/24/the-beach-boys-brian-wilson-talks-love-and-mercy/

most interesting quote: "I don't use autotune."

No, he uses Pro Tools pitch correction.

http://blogs.reuters.com/breakingviews/2016/05/13/the-exchange-podcast-brian-wilsons-good-vibes/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

I always sort of felt that Mike was kind of ticked that he didn't sing the lead on Rhonda....one of the real audience participation numbers. Maybe even moreso during the 50th reunion, when Al brought the house down with it every night.

So ticked that Mike waited 32 years and then an additional 15 years plus another additional 4 more years to get his revenge. 

Imo, Brian did not think up anything he couldn't execute. Everything was thought out before he went into the studio, and his identification of what each bit was for and its place in the overall song are still there today on every bit. Imo he did what he wanted to do in an organized yet spontaneous way.

The problem imo is we don't want to accept that when he got it, as he was getting it, it was not satisfying to him lyrically or artistically or commercially; as he explained several times then and for decades since.  We want to lay it on everything but Brian's Muse but imo it was down to Brian's Muse; the same genius Muse we all love.

I personally agree it probably happened because Brian stretched out to be competitive with some artists et al he wanted to "scare"/impress, which he was executing beautifully, but it just did not ring true to him in the way other albums before (and eventually since) did.  I agree that SMiLE is beautiful (I'm obsessed with it) but, imo for several reasons, it is not emotional in the way other recordings were/are and my guess is that is the problem Brian's Muse came to realize.

Mars, all opinions are still welcome here. I think.

How many years was it again, you worked with Bruce and the Boys?   

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll?  

[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd

The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.

+1

Maybe it's just me but to me Bruce is probably second only to Brian in group vocal harmony arrangements.

He's a walking heart attack.  . He's better get his hefty butt to the gym and lose some of that bacon. 

Dude?  (sad eyes)  We don't agree often but I would never condone someone saying something like this about you.

By now can't we (longtimers) at least be a "loyal opposition" to each other?

Don't you agree at least that AGD should have been given a chance to face his accusers and their accusations? I would if it were you.

Come on, Cam, think back to when I was banned. Was I given the chance you're talking about? Don't think so.  Would you condone the outrageous PM's he sent me that make what I said about him look like a Valentine's Day Card? 

OK. I do think you should have and I don't condone any of that from either of you but I've got my own problems too so.....pot/kettle I suppose.  Still can't we all try to be more civil toward each other? 

<<But, personally, I think the studio version of Rock and Roll Music is pretty lifeless.>>

The single mix has some serious punch.  And I think the MIC 'faders up" mix ranks with the best of their rock & roll covers, second only to Do You Wanna Dance.

I think the single mix is an improvement.  

But I'll still stick with Chuck Berry or The Beatles.  

I'm not a particular fan of R&RM but I agree, it sounds better live imo.

He's a walking heart attack.  . He's better get his hefty butt to the gym and lose some of that bacon. 

Dude?  (sad eyes)  We don't agree often but I would never condone someone saying something like this about you.

By now can't we (longtimers) at least be a "loyal opposition" to each other?

Don't you agree at least that AGD should have been given a chance to face his accusers and their accusations? I would if it were you.

Really? I'll admit I've had some run-ins with some people on these boards such as the deplorable Ian Wagner and the heinous Mam Cott.

I'd like to know which rule/agenda/conspiracy/payroll allows Jim to continuously insult and bully me (without provocation) right out in the open, in front of and in spite of the Moderators? 

And also hear about the experiences at Brian's concerts.

Not only have I seen Brian over a dozen times, I've been at arguably his most controversial gig/incident (the 2007 show where he decided to lay down on stage in the middle of the show), so I've seen how people who WEREN'T at the show in question will quickly run with vague reports that are either partly or wholly inaccurate and quickly paint a "sky is falling" scenario. Within *hours* of that 2007 gig, I saw "Brian collapses at show; he shouldn't be on tour anymore" posts from people who weren't there.

That 2007 gig was a good example of where context and even-handedness was important. I was suspicious of incorrect "Brian passed out on stage, his touring days are over" comments, and I would have also been troubled by any sunshiney "Brian's *fine*, there was *nothing* weird about that show last night" sorts of comments. That incident was weird; it was telling of something more than Brian "eating a bad burrito" as Foskett said. But it wasn't a "sky is falling" scenario either. And believe me, I say that as someone who was at the show and did have a brief moment of thinking "Did I really just witness Brian Wilson's last concert?"

Where was this? Is there video of this show available?

Nope. I was there, but there's no extant recording of it that I know of, certainly no video (dunno if an audience recording is out there, if so, I haven't heard though would love to as it was otherwise a really good show).

I think there used to be a few YouTube clips of the show (this was 2007, so I think it was shot in really crummy quality on an old flip phone or something), but even those clips didn't have any of the mid-show incident.

It was June 11, 2007 at The Mountain Winery in Saratoga, CA. Al was at the show as an unannounced guest. Near the mid-point of the show (there was no scheduled intermission), near the end of a song (trying to remember which, maybe "Sloop John B" or "I Get Around"), Brian stood up and just kind of sat down on the stage behind Al. My recollection is that he kind of plopped on the ground sitting with his legs extended straight out, but did so purposefully (he didn't appear to have collapsed or passed out). The deliberate nature (or appearance of such) as he did meant the rest of the band actually didn't appear too concerned. My recollection is that once the song ended, Al turned around and looked down to Brian and said something like "Hey Brian, you ok?" I remember Al seeming slightly more visually concerned than the rest of the band. Brian got up, went back to his seat at his keyboard, and said something like "I've just had a fainting spell. I don't know if I can continue with the show." He had a look on his face that was painful to see; my interpretation of it was that he was scared about not being able to finish the show, like he'd be in trouble for it or something (not like the promoter would take him backstage and yell at him or something, but just all of the normal problems an artist would run into if they aborted a show). He didn't look particularly ill or particularly wobbly or anything; he obviously seemed somewhat low in energy. My main memory is Brian saying "I don't know if I can continue the show" (or "I don't think I can continue the show", something along those lines), followed by a LOOOONG awkward silence from the audience and the band.

I was already prepping for the strong possibility that we'd be heading home at that point, only 15 or so songs into the show. I honestly wasn't super concerned about Brian's immediate physical health or anything. I was obviously concerned in general. But it wasn't like he fell off the stage unconscious or something. He seemed to have all his faculties and was moving around; it clearly wasn't a heart attack or anything. As I said, despite Brian calling it a "fainting" spell, it didn't even look like *that.*

At that point, the band (including Gary Griffin and Billy Hinsche who were fill-ins on this tour, so no Darian) didn't seem to be taking any action. After a few more moments of awkwardness, it was Al who seemed to take charge a bit and called for an intermission. I think the band and crew were thrown for a loop, because this tour didn't have any scheduled intermissions.

After an extended intermission, Brian came back out with the band. I believe he said some words, though I can't remember. I do remember Foskett doing his best to brush it off with humor, mentioning that Brian "ate a bad burrito."

Brian finished the set, with interestingly extra energy and zeal. After the show, the tour bus whisked him straight away driving through the section where fans exit the hilled area, and he rolled his window down and energetically waved to the fans.

Sorry for the extended story time.

The general point was that the incident was not without some weirdness, and did raise some questions I feel were worth asking. But it was also an example of “purple monkey dishwasher” style “a friend of a friend of a friend” speculation afterwards as well.(See "The Simpsons" for more on that reference!  )

The incident is briefly referenced in Jon Stebbins’s “FAQ” book as well.

That all sounds like a normal reaction to a very public fainting spell imo. You get to the floor where you think you might be ending up soon anyway and do it near your oldest nearest friend. I imagine that is more or less what any of us would do.

God bless Don Was.

Is there a place where we can get the approved opinions and the correct agendas so we don't have all of this "diversity" (nose in air) of opinion? Maybe a loyalty test or pledge to sign:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Kokomoist/Brianista Party (mark "X" next to only one)"

Maybe at the top of the "Welcome" page.

X  The Beach Boys (Independent Party)

Apparently not an option.

Is there a place where we can get the approved opinions and the correct agendas so we don't have all of this "diversity" (nose in air) of opinion? Maybe a loyalty test or pledge to sign:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Kokomoist/Brianista Party (mark "X" next to only one)"

Maybe at the top of the "Welcome" page.

I doubt he would do it to needlessly appease the few hundred "fans" who are bothered about.

Sorry if that came across as a little rude. In my head it was a more friendly, teasing tone.
You're right, it would not be libel, it would be another form of defamation - slander. I think people often use the word 'libel' when they mean, more generally, defamation.
Again, if someone knowingly passes on defamatory information, indicating it is true, they could be held liable, whether or not they are the source of the information and whether or not they indicated the source.
I have no inside knowledge of what happened with AGD, so I don't know if this pertains.

OK, got ya on the tone.

Slander is libel spoken publicly right?  If so, still doesn't apply to AGD as so far explained which didn't claim he passed it on as truth as far as I remember.  Maybe I've forgotten something.

I don't know if it's already be said, I couldn't slog thru all 25 pages.

It should be noted that after the mods became aware of AGDs potentially libel pms, had they not put a stop to it, they, the mods, could have perhaps put themselves in in legal jeporidy. Stranger things have happened.

If I understood it correctly there was no potential libel from AGD, the potential libel was on some un-named source.

It's unclear to me whether he was knowingly passing on false information, which is the key to that question.

I thought it was made clear AGD attributed the information to a source. Also, it wasn't published, it was private. I'm not a lawyer but the only potential libel might be the published claims that AGD committed "potential libel".

regarding "libel", yeah yeah -defamation.
It really depends on details that I'm not privy to: mainly, when he passed it on, did he know it was untrue but indicate it was true, would be the main question.

"yeah yeah -defamation"?

I think that has already been answered as AGD attributed it to a source, so the potential libel would be on the source.  Plus it was private and not published, so not even potential libel by AGD it seems to me.

I don't know if it's already be said, I couldn't slog thru all 25 pages.

It should be noted that after the mods became aware of AGDs potentially libel pms, had they not put a stop to it, they, the mods, could have perhaps put themselves in in legal jeporidy. Stranger things have happened.

If I understood it correctly there was no potential libel from AGD, the potential libel was on some un-named source.

It's unclear to me whether he was knowingly passing on false information, which is the key to that question.

I thought it was made clear AGD attributed the information to a source. Also, it wasn't published, it was private. I'm not a lawyer but the only potential libel might be the published claims that AGD committed "potential libel".

I don't know if it's already be said, I couldn't slog thru all 25 pages.

It should be noted that after the mods became aware of AGDs potentially libel pms, had they not put a stop to it, they, the mods, could have perhaps put themselves in in legal jeporidy. Stranger things have happened.

If I understood it correctly there was no potential libel from AGD, the potential libel was on some un-named source.

I had no idea. Very sad.

That theatre is magic. It used to be a movie house. Saw Jaws there the day it was released in the Summer of 1975.

So did I. An inebriated guy a few rows in front of us got sick from the opening scene and had to be helped out of the theater.

That would be epic fail. She's really bad singer. Beach Boys are much better, definitely.

Check out some of her earlier work, before movies, it must be available somewhere.