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681337 Posts in 27635 Topics by 4081 Members - Latest Member: zappi June 04, 2024, 08:39:15 AM
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2101  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: what brand of loafers did the BBs wear in the 60s? on: November 18, 2014, 06:49:13 AM
These loafers:



Everyone's in loaf with you, but you can't fall in loaf with anyone.
Bow w00t! w00t! LOL LOL LOL  Frog, you've gotta take your incredible sense of humor on the road. How about opening for Brian?
2102  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike and Bruce Tour 2014 on: November 17, 2014, 06:56:21 AM
Certainly in December, their shows tend to have a strong seasonal bias. Odd, that.  Roll Eyes

The audience last year:


The normal effect on an audience waiting for the lovester's intro for BTTYS to end. None of them look too pleased about it.  Thud
2103  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Missed Hits & Hits Missed on: November 15, 2014, 08:10:26 AM
Mess of Help with a tweek here and a twerk there could have been a solid hit to my ears.
2104  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 15, 2014, 08:06:27 AM
I hear that the SiP CD doubles as a pretty good frisbee.
Alas, it does, even with dog bites.
2105  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 15, 2014, 07:36:01 AM
Will you sign the record, OSD?
I will Frog-you deserve a consolation prize of some kind for only being one year off-how about a yellow Beach Boys Frisbee that Sheba (my late dog rip 1990) chewed on? LOL
2106  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 15, 2014, 07:15:59 AM
I'm going 67.
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! What do you plan to do with your winnings? Retire, buy a vacation home, a sports car, give it to those in need or give it a spin across the creek as you watch it slowly sink to the bottom?? w00t! w00t!
2107  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 14, 2014, 11:13:19 AM
Hey, where am I in that list of welcomebackers?

I don't have a SIP CD. Serious. I could use one. I say 72 +/- 1 years old.
 Thud My bad! When I,m out there and we go drinkin', It will be on my dime, with only top shelf.  High Five Hug Drinking Buddies Drinking Buddies Kiss
2108  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Somebody Please Slap Denny Tedesco into consciousness! on: November 14, 2014, 09:59:39 AM
Thanks - Is it really off-topic, though?  Smiley  I say that, and posted all of that, because my bigger point was that anyone interested or anyone with, let's say, some measure of common sense could have looked at the Headquarters or Pisces Aquarius album covers waaaayyyy back in 1967 and read the musician credits. They would have seen the actual band who apparently didn't play their instruments actually had played their instruments! When Pleasant Valley Sunday started playing on 'MCA or KHJ or 'RKO in summer 1967, that hot guitar riff was actually played by a real-life Monkee! Imagine that!  Grin

And it goes to repeating something false when the truth has been out and available since the issue was still current. In this case, 1967.

And it has parallels in the session musician issues being discussed here, and also shows up in Beach Boys circles as well, where what happened, we're told, actually didn't happen...or told in a more nuanced way that history was wrong, or missed the mark, when in fact the actual truth of the story has been sitting there all along.

And in those cases, like the Monkees nonsense, "ignorance is bliss" is not an excuse when the facts of the story are available yet ignored.
Wasn't commenting on your post which was on topic. More like thanks for your consideration.
2109  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 14, 2014, 08:02:56 AM
Rab, that was brilliant. Many thanks to Smile Brian, Rab, Peter, Bamboo, Zack, Billy, and GF for the warm wishes and support. Lesson: You really CAN come home again! group hug
2110  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Somebody Please Slap Denny Tedesco into consciousness! on: November 14, 2014, 07:49:58 AM
This is over-crediting thing has become a real problem. I routinely go at it every few weeks with Monkees fans who repeatedly point to The Beach Boys as a band that "never played a note in the studio". Unfortunately this line of thinking is so pervasive online now that I don't see how it can become undone. Well...I guess with proper credits and some embarrassed apologies. We'll see.

Great post. This is interesting, and let me say from the outset that The Monkees' music has been one of my absolute favorites and biggest influences in playing and working in music in general. Beatles-Beach Boys-Monkees, it's the Big Three for me that I most often return to for pure enjoyment.

So - As much as has been written about The Monkees and how they fit into all of this, keep in mind that back in 1967 some would point to a Mike Nesmith interview where he essentially said "tell the world that we don't play on our records because damn it, we don't!" or something along those lines (don't have the quote in front of me).

Consider the time when that interview was given, it was during the power struggle with Don Kirshner over that very issue: The band wanted to play and choose their music that would appear on their releases, Kirshner in what is still one of the more bizarre axes ever ground in the music biz simply refused to allow this apart from a few Nesmith songs, and as a result Rafelson and Schneider eventually showed him the door. It was as if Kirshner had something personal against the notion of letting the guys play in the studio...thus, he was out.

As far as the opinions in the present day, I thought a lot of the actual history had replaced the mythology, but perhaps that isn't the case as much as I assumed. The Monkees music and their other media from the 60's have gotten more respect, they have gotten a revisiting from listeners, critics, and new audiences, and people generally seem to think they were better than the reputation of "plastic" would suggest.

And with that, consider a few things I sometimes forget even as a major, die-hard fan and follower of the band:

They were actors cast to play a band on a TV show. Simple as that, no secret. That borrows the Mike Nesmith line he's repeated often, the backlash against them as individuals would be like Star Trek fans criticizing Leonard Nimoy for not being a real Vulcan. The difference is that not only *were* they working musicians who had played gigs and released material prior to the Monkees, but they wanted to have a part in creating their own music. Whatever hangups Kirshner had against that, they were musicians who wanted some stake in what their names and photos were being used to sell.

Consider: The first two albums, are there credits anywhere on them that "lied" in terms of who played the parts? No. It was standard practice to not credit musicians who had played the studio parts on album liners. Nesmith's "blow the lid off" interview brought it to the fore, though, and it did become an issue and cause a backlash which you can see in vintage music papers and fan mags. Ultimately, though, people still watched the show and bought the records, especially in 67-68.

Now look at their third and fourth albums, Headquarters and "Pisces, Aquarius...": Their first four albums appeared in a time frame of just over one year...four Monkees albums in a year, how many bands today have that? Anyway, on the third album which appeared less than a year after the TV show premiered, the band members are playing the majority of instruments on the album, and the liner notes on that album in '67 list their credits. Pisces Aquarius, from Fall 1967, same thing: The band members are playing on that album, supplemented by session guys like Chip Douglas, Fast Eddie Hoh, etc.

Question: What is difficult to understand or comprehend about that? They're playing prominently on those recordings, they're credited as doing so...if anyone still suggests the "they didn't play their instruments" B.S. 45+ years later, I'd tell them flat out they are foolish or lazy, or both.

Fans in '67 knew this, it was printed on millions of albums that were sold that year. Fans who watched the TV show also saw two things: The finale episode of the first season was called "Monkees On Tour", and shows the band playing a live show. Yes, PLAYING a live show for thousands of screaming fans with actual guitars, a bass, and a drum set. And in a ragged kind of garage-y vibe, they played a really cool show. But the point is, they played instruments on stage.

In '67 the fans watching the show also saw a group interview which they used to cut into the end of the episodes when they first ran. One of them has the band being asked about playing their own instruments, and Nesmith (again) took the lead: "I'm about to go on in front of 15,000 people, if I don't play my own instrument I'm in trouble."

Anyone from 1967 on knew the story, yes Kirshner kept them out of the studio chairs but everything recorded from February 1967 onward had the band playing instruments, and it created some of the best AM pop of the year, from Pleasant Valley Sunday, to Daydream Believer, to The Girl I Knew Somewhere, to Randy Scouse Git, and the terrific album cuts.

It is another case, perhaps, of some people simply wanting to claim ignorance in order to express an opinion, which in this case might be backing up a claim that they don't like the Monkees without saying it outright, so the old standard "they didn't play their own instruments" continues to be repeated, and continues to be complete nonsense and has been known to be nonsense since they did start playing in the studio in 1967.

Yet in the past several years, there were the three surviving band members reuniting and playing hits and deep album cuts live on stage, playing their own instruments, singing their own songs, and basically playing to packed venues and getting very positive reviews...and big ticket sales. Interesting, right?

There is a difference between being ignorant of history and wishing to rewrite history...
O/T but thanks GF Smiley
2111  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 14, 2014, 07:32:42 AM
Smile Brian, #1 OSD fan, just shot a load in his pants.

Welcome back, Oldsurferdude, ya old fart!
Mikie, that's about right! LOL
LOL LOL LOL Old? Easily older than all you guys-Hell, Brian and I were born in the same decade. When he was a senior in high school I was in middle school. Tell you what-Guess my age and I'll send you my SIP cd-really! Old Man
2112  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 13, 2014, 06:15:16 PM
Smile Brian, #1 OSD fan, just shot a load in his pants.

Welcome back, Oldsurferdude, ya old fart!
Missed you and your golden posts-everything ok in CA?
2113  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 13, 2014, 06:07:11 PM
OSD! Cool
Can ya believe it? Jail food is worse than it ever was.
2114  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: OSD WELCOME BACK PARTY!!!! on: November 13, 2014, 05:13:39 PM
Ah hell...it's Christmas.

he has been reinstated as of 9:19PM CST.

That said...everything in the past needs to stay in the past. Just like I'm not going to tolerate any personal attacks from him, I will not tolerate it going the other way, either.
Billy, thanks for the kind gesture. No need to worry about anything-after this bout of hard time, I've got religion.  Thumbs Up
2115  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Are the beach boys the most diverse band? on: November 13, 2014, 05:01:25 PM
Did "Wrinkles" create its own genre? And if so, what would that be?    LOL
Yes, of course it did and it's the new rage-Transcendental Rogaine Rock for Swingers.  Grin
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