There has been the odd social media post during the last few years showing him singing in the studio or something like that and I’m not sure that the outcome of all those sessions has been revealed. It does seem that he has been less active more recently though in fact I’m not sure how long ago the last post of this kind was.

Pretty sure he did some recording for the upcoming documentary. A few songs at least.

A cover of Long Promised Road was confirmed, but it is probably a few years old at this point.

I thought Honeycomb was also discussed, or if not at least it was mentioned that Brian plays it during the documentary.

I also agree that c-man described it well, but I want to talk a little more about “That Same Song.” I know it’s been discussed previously on the board about Brian subconsciously sabotaging the record, or Stephen Moffitt’s engineering ruining the record, but this was one definitely could be better. I haven’t seen the full 1976 TV special, but I have seen the band and choir performing “That Same Song” and that clearly crushes the album version.

Maybe we need to start a 2021 thread, since 2021 dates are starting to get rescheduled.

March 30 -- New Bedford, MA -- Zeiterion Performing Arts Center
The venue has postponed this show, new date TBA

Source:
https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/2020/12/11/zeiterion-performing-arts-center-postpones-indoor-shows-through-june/3894225001/

Oh yeah as someone who was supposed to attend this show, I forgot to warn the board about the “new date.” Thanks for doing it for me Emdeeh!!

He talks about Bill House at Equinox Records, is that the same guy that wrote Make It Big?

If I remember correctly from other info I’ve read on the board, this would be the same Bill House who plays on Sumahama and half of KTSA, assistant produced Rock and Roll to the Rescue, and wrote Make It Big. I’m guessing he likely played on the last two as well.

I think it peaked at #10 on Cashbox in the US - which shows sales were still good. Technically sales were still good until “Break Away” and the switch to Reprise afterwards.

Does anyone know where Brian is actually singing lead on Goin’ On and Sunshine? I don’t know if it’s because my ears or bad or the thick vocal layering, but the only place I can hear Brian is his little answer vocal on Goin’ On.

So there are a few things I can add...

Now if anybody could remind me what is different with the single versions of "Cuddle Up", "Lady Lynda" and "Livin' With a Heartache" I'd love to know cuz I am totally drawing a blank. Whatever the differences, I can't imagine they will ever be reissued any time soon, as I'm pretty sure we are into major trainspotter territory with those.

According to the new ESQ, Bruce said the single version of LWAH cuts about a minute out from the album version.

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Yep.

And as soon as I heard about Bob Dylan's catalog being worth 300 million bucks, I instantly thought about what members of the Beach Boys must have thought of that, when imagining how much their catalog would've been worth had Murry not sold them out.

I’m surprised it didn’t sell for more to be honest. And I haven’t listened to a lot of Dylan’s stuff, but the way that people talk about him, I’d think at least $500M.

The Brother years onwards is still a valuable commodity - not like 1961-1968-9, but surely more valuable than a hell of a lot of other artists best years.

I think we all agree with you, thetojo, but who knows how many outside of us hardcore fans - especially publishing companies - feel that way or even have listened to this material.

Hey HeyJude,

Didn't someone in this thread say the main thing holding up "Feel Flows" is an issue with credits?  Or did I dream that?

Now if that's the case, then the credit situation has to worked out.  Or... the song, or songs, in question have to be excised from the set.

That brings us to speculation on why the credit situation is so hard to resolve.  I mean, are Mike or any other of the Beach Boys going to make more than a negligible amount by getting their names on some obscure track that is going to appear on this vanity/historical release?  Probably not.  So that should be easy to resolve.

However, if someone wants their credit changed on one or more of the main songs on the two albums, then perhaps they're asking for reimbursement of monies lost over the years?  Isn't that what Mike did before?  He sued and got Brian to pay him for royalties he was not paid over the years?

Am I getting close?


Love and merci,
Dan Lega

Nah, credits are not an issue. There's no dispute over songwriting or any other credits.

I don't think anybody has actually asserted that credits are an issue. I think someone at some point speculated if that might be the case. Either way, credits aren't at issue.

While it's understandable up to a point to find this concept confusing, it's important to remember that the compilation, mixing, mastering, artwork prep, etc. for this set were all run through the appropriate parties. Essentially, this set *was* given a green light at every step up until the finished product was ready for a release date to be set and manufacturing to begin. Knowing this might help folks to understand the things that would be very unlikely to be an issue. Things like track listing concerns, songwriting credits, liner notes disputes, all of that stuff would have been raised as an issue most likely prior to the set literally being ready to be sent to the printers/manufacturing plant. Obviously, anybody could dispute anything at any time, including disputing something they previously signed off on. But I don't believe that's the case with "Feel Flows."

A situation came into being, virtually unrelated to anything to do with the set, and it was and seemingly still is being used to decide to delay releasing the set. As I've previously said, this situation is a legit situation that would require appropriate attention, care, etc. I'm not even characterizing whether said situation is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing/issue/occurrence, whatever you want to call it. That this situation is given serious attention is not unwarranted. What seems to have confused/stunned/frustrated folks is that *that* situation is being used as a reason to delay releasing "Feel Flows" when most people I think would see no reason that the set couldn't be released as per normal.

It has been announced that Bob Dylan has agreed to sell all his copyright to Universal Music.

If one looks back many pages back to the description of the decision before the Beach Boys which may have precipitated the original excuse to delay the FF box set, one might well come to the conclusion that a similar offer is/was on the table for the Beach Boys/BRI.

Interesting idea, but I don’t think the band/members doesn’t own the rights to its most profitable publishing material - the Capitol era stuff. Murry sold all of that right? I doubt the band had a big offer for that.

Lately, because of Feel Flows, I wonder about Bruce’s mandolin skills. Did Ed Carter or someone else teach him how to play the intro he wanted for Disney Girls and that’s all he knew? Or is something else hiding there?

The mandolin is not difficult to play on a functional level. Bruce obviously knows how to play guitar and since a mandolin is fifths-tuned, all you have to do is take the fingerings for the four lowest strings of a guitar (or bass) and reverse them.

Interesting point I hadn’t thought of. I play guitar and bass, but haven’t gotten around to the mandolin yet (someday, maybe) and didn’t realize it was a “reversed” tuning. Thanks!!

Lately, because of Feel Flows, I wonder about Bruce’s mandolin skills. Did Ed Carter or someone else teach him how to play the intro he wanted for Disney Girls and that’s all he knew? Or is something else hiding there?

... they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds?

Depends on which copyright lawyer you ask. I'm beginning to think that lawyers for UMG et al have decided that quiet digital/streaming releases for all of a few seconds qualify for copyright extension; it's just that no one's taken them to court to challenge it. Certainly seems like less of a hassle for the record companies than pressing up 100-500 copies and selling them, like with Dylan.

And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up.

Answered here: https://twitter.com/sterlewine/status/1330709405923348480

I’m catching up...but scottythered, thanks for the info and more specifically what I meant is explained below.

... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

Ding ding ding. That’s making the most sense to me right now.

I've said this elsewhere, but why would they put in effort to include a ton of alternates of released songs from both albums, plus material from 1969 and 1971? Realistically, they only needed to upload 2-3 of these (or maybe 4) in order to protect the copyright.

It's on Brian's FB page. It was just fans asking questions in the comments and Brian replying to them. There was no video.

Supposedly they recorded audio and/or plan to make a transcript for release next week?

I thought about a really good, interesting question that at the same time wouldn't be too much for a facebook post. But I can't think of anything so I probably just gonna ask what his favorite Elvis song ist. I've been wanting to know that for years now.

Rocker were you lucky enough to get a reply?

Maybe the box set isn't releasing until next year, so this is a copyright dump to keep the 1970 material from going into public domain?

That’s my prediction but either way I’m happy

I agree that this makes the most sense but wouldn’t it make more sense to release the bare minimum like they did last year so as not to spill out too much? And even if this is like scottythered suggested,

 

The fact that the release date on this is listed as last Monday suggests this isn't a copyright dump that we'll be able to buy. More likely, it's a streaming-only album that was made available for minutes then taken down -- not unlike what (is believed to have) happened earlier this year with the Beatles 1969 Recordings Spotify album that someone stumbled upon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/iqld9d/the_saga_of_1969_recordings_a_beatles_spotify/

I'd happily plunk down money to buy it, but I agree that it's more likely a copyright placeholder until Feel Flows is finally released.

... which I think is more likely, they still didn’t have to “release” all of this for a few seconds? And even more, how did AllMusic get these samples if they were only briefly up. The only thing that would make a little bit of sense is if they were able to grab only You Never Give Me Your Money, since it’s only 40 seconds long.

Al Jardine just called in live to Billy Hinsche's show on Facebook and said that the Feel Flows box set will be released in May or June of 2021.

Awesome!! Hopefully this date stays put.

I think Carl’s guitar playing is underrated, and I think he underestimated his ability to play lead on later recordings. He did it well on It’s About Time, LPR, FF, Marcella (I assume), Sail On Sailor, Roller Skating Child (most likely), some of Dennis’ solo stuff (I haven’t really listened to a lot of it yet), and It’s A Beautiful Day (I probably still missed some, too).

I know I should be listening to the samples, but God, I feel like I’d be cheating not waiting for the full box to come out, so I think I’m going to wait.

The Boston Globe (US newspaper) did a short piece on the Murry LP today: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/11/22/beach-boys-fan-tracks-down-elusive-songs-by-wilson-dad/

As a MA native, The Boston Globe and Herald are two different papers; regardless, I’m happy to see you get the exposure and hope to buy a copy if you stil have any left on Discogs.

Also, the paper couldn’t find a recent picture of M&B?  Mike Kowalski and Randall Kirsch are in it; hell, even a C50 picture would have made a little more sense because Murry is Brian’s father and Mike’s uncle.

Well... so shoot me, but I love the remake of HCTN. I rate it as different to the original, but still great. Even I would admit, though, that the 10-minute version overloads the album somewhat. They should have put on the single edit IMHO... maybe included another couple of tracks, and left the 10-minute version of HCTN for the 12-inch single.

Personally, I find LA too full of really dull, over-smooth late 70s yacht-rock. Good Timing is OK but doesn't break any ground, and HCTN is (to me) fun but too over-long in the album version. The one track I think is truly great, and which always makes my personal Beach Boys Top 20, is Baby Blue. About the last thing, to my mind they ever did (even if it was mostly Dennis and Carl) that had some of the love and soul you can hear in SMiLE and Pet Sounds and the greatest of the late 60s stuff. After Baby Blue, it really is downhill all the way for me (well, until 2012, anyway).

Lastly, I have a feeling no-one ever COULD have got 'It's Over Now' and 'Still I Dream Of It' onto LA in the late 70s, even if anyone had wanted to... which they didn't. The 'clean-livers' in the band were in the ascendant at the time (witness MIU and the yacht-rock smoothness of LA). Even Carl was addicted for some of this period, Dennis was starting the long slide down and out, and Brian was declining towards his very lowest point. The Brian-heavy Love You DID come out but bombed... and the album that DID feature those tracks, Adult Child, was subsequently canned by the band and didn't EVER come out, even to this day. Who, quite simply, would have fought to put those tracks on LA? No-one.

I definitely agree that I love the single HCTN and think it should’ve been on the album instead of the long version. Great vocals and bass, even though the vocoder intro is a little cheesy. Carl kills it as usual. I think we can enjoy Beach Boys rock, pop, and disco just as we can enjoy Beach Boys pop, disco, and rock. I don’t think Mike and Al are the reason for the yacht rock sound on LA - it’s a Carl- and Dennis- centered album.

I remember liking one of Carl’s songs a little but not the other - I think of ACH as Dennis because he sings it. Baby Blue is great to me, except Carl’s vocal. Its one of his too-perfect-that-it’s-boring vocals (like Our Sweet Love). I don’t think It’s Over Now would have made it because Marilyn sings on it; I doubt Brian would have been okay with that with the impending divorce.

Things are good. It's moving forward.

I can’t believe I never commented/responded to this. Awesome!! Thanks Howie!!

In the meantime, Elton John ... and there's an Elvis Presley box set of his June 1970 Nashville sessions coming out Nov. 20. So there certainly seems to be a market for box sets nowadays.

And I can’t wait for From Elvis in Nashville too. Been promoting both that and Feel Flows for at least a month or so whenever I can.

Reports on Endless Harmony that there was an offer for a 60th anniversary album.
I asked, was Brian and Al’s refusal related to the circular firing squad episode that then held up  Feels Flows.

I have little doubt that Brian and Al considered the stress of dealing with a bandmate with narcissistic personality disorder, and decided against it. Who needs that kind of stress when pushing 80? Not them.

Mike has burned all of his bridges.

Here is the quote from EH, written by SaltyMarshmallow, if anyone is interested:

I guess the implication was lost on the last page, but apparently I have the green light to say it now: according to a reliable source (someone who works at Capitol), the group were approached about doing another reunion album earlier this year. Brian and Al both flat-out said no.

And I agree, CD. I think TWGMTR is a perfect send off from the band, and Brian had already wanted to do a follow-up album years ago which was refused by Mike due to the “writing alone in a room with Brian” thing (I think).

Would any of you want to be alone in a room with a guy who berates your wife and talks sh*t about your mental health to the press? *edit, I think many wouldn’t mind using the room as a UFC cage for a while, but in Brian’s case, I think he just wants to be free of Mike for good.

Disappointing of course, but I can’t say I blame them after Mike’s actions this year (and any time since 2012).

Hi everyone, I’m assuming many of us have read this interview, but I didn’t until I saw it posted on Brian’s Facebook page. Could the author be related to or married to David Beard?

https://hbr.org/2016/12/brian-wilson?fbclid=IwAR0L2OV9eFpotgX1g1PbzbL6uhfXyZWYgmw7M3BUotX_ygIhB9VgZr31r2c


EDIT: Can we form an accidental double-post club? I might need to be initiated; I’m a rookie with this.

Hi everyone, I’m assuming many of us have read this interview, but I didn’t until I saw it posted on Brian’s Facebook page. Could the author be related to or married to David Beard?

https://hbr.org/2016/12/brian-wilson?fbclid=IwAR0L2OV9eFpotgX1g1PbzbL6uhfXyZWYgmw7M3BUotX_ygIhB9VgZr31r2c

I hope this was an off night for Mike, and not the new normal with his voice. I think the group still sounded *ok* when Stamos wasn't drumming. Just understandably rusty. Perhaps the monitoring was poor. But Timmy's keys and Keith's bass sounded wonderful. The vocals were shaky overall, but I think Ike, Totten, and Bruce did well. I think Bruce rocked on Do You Wanna Dance. Mike's voice had me worried. Between the video of his movements and audio of his singing, it's the first time Mike has really seemed his age to me. My dad and I always leave the Mike & Bruce shows talking about what a force of nature Mike is. That he can bring such energy, walking around the stage, sounding, for the most part, almost identical to his voice in the golden era. An absolute professional. Akin to Mccartney or Jagger. That may not be what went on the 98-99 let's say when it was a free for all, but in the time I've been seeing BB shows (2014-today) Mike has always had great energy and voice. But this most recent show, and to an extent, some of the shows leading up to it, Mike's voice sounds so shaky. Makes me wonder what's going on. I guess its pretty similar to McCartney's shaky live tone of the last few years.

Mike sounded fine when I saw the guys last year; all that time off probably did him no favors.
The deterioration of Paul's voice is much sadder to him; he once had a beautiful voice.

Agreed on both points. I saw M&B in August 2019 and can’t remember his voice being particularly bad.

EDIT: I honestly can’t remember much about August 2019 because it honestly feels like so long ago - probably a little weaker than April 2015, the first time I saw them.

How anyone in their right mind could be interested in this fake, watered down sham of what is called The Beach Boys is beyond any logical type of reasoning. It absolutely displays how dutifully stupid and naive the general public can be.

In defense of the general public, The touring Beach Boys have had some shady marketing over the years (pictures of the original line-up, video promotions with Brian and Al, there have even been times where the venue has to assure the ticket-holders/buyers that "this isn't a reunion show with Brian Wilson" if memory serves me correctly). And on top of that, just the name itself says flatly "The Beach Boys" - so if you're not like us on this website (where everyone has 15+ copies of Pet Sounds each), I don't really blame you if you don't know that "The Beach Boys" don't really mean "The Beach Boys" when it comes to the touring group.

When I was younger, before I really got into The Beach Boys, I saw an ad in the local paper for a Beach Boys concert in my local city. I was sooo close to buying tickets but didn't because I was short on money and had no one to go with. But those were my only reasons for not going. I had no idea who the original line-up was, had no idea that only two original Beach Boys were apart of the touring group. I just saw a nice looking ad and thought it would be great fun to see The Beach Boys and hear some great music.

And that's what this band is to most people: they just love hearing those original harmonies at a July 4th barbecue (or a Beach Boys concert after a few beers). They don't care about the history, they don't care about the feuds/squabbling. It is just about the music to them...and honestly I rather envy those people anymore because they don't know all the garbage we know about this band (which can and does at times affect my enjoyment of the music - just being honest).

Spot on.

Mike's touring license could be revoked at any time if the other principals objected to how he is using the name.

I don't see that happening.

I'm not so sure it's anywhere near as easy as that. Just keep in mind how litigious Mike is.

I have a suspicion that Mike has made maneuvers behind the scenes with BRI to perhaps change the power structure, so that he never loses the license under any circumstances. Or at minimum, he could create all sorts of legal blockades and threats where anybody who would even think of challenging it would know they be in for an uphill legal battle that would be prolonged, costly, and who has the emotional energy for that when approaching 80?

Of course Brian and Al like to get checks for doing nothing, I'm not denying that's the case. But I really do think that stripping Mike of the license would not at all be some sort of "easy" thing to do at this point.

Plus, just think about how mad Mike would be if that happened to him. That's literally all he's got going for him at this time, is the adulation from low information fans at shows. It would literally be the most emasculating, detrimental thing to him, and if it were to actually happen, he would probably lash out in all sorts of ways, perhaps causing other releases beyond FF to be completely blocked and who knows what else, solely out of pure spite. I mean, I don't think the guy has shown anywhere near what he is really capable of if he were actually deprived of that one thing. He would unleash WWIII in BBs world.

Like it or not, Brian knows that he's stuck with having to deal with Mike. It's just like having fathered a child with somebody who you found out was a massive narcissist later on, you are tied to that person for life. Be careful who you create offspring with, and who you create bands with.

I just don't think Brian or Al or Carl's kids want to unleash the type of holy hell that could come out of rocking the boat in that severe a manner. But that said, I do think that Brian and Al probably would *like* to do it and reclaim the name for themselves, if it were an easy thing to do at this point. But they aren't fighters in that type of way, especially when it would be an excruciating and ugly fight.

Sadly agreed. With regards to liking to do it, there’s a Rolling Stone article from 2013 where Brian mentioned wanting to go out with Al and David Marks as The Original Beach Boys. But that would probably be so difficult to do. Somewhat off topic, but do we know why David Marks really hasn’t done any gigs with any of his BB bandmates between 2015 and his health scare?

I really do not know what to make of this, and it's making me a little unnerved. If we still get a 5CD set in 2021, I don't care how much they throw at us, but I don't want them to skimp, and then we get nothing. I'm happy for the Track and Background Vocals mixes to be digital only if they were never part of the 5CD set, as these are arguably 'filler', but are still a nice listen.

Fingers crossed for some info soon.

Agreed.

[FREE FEEL FLOWS!]

I would say all bets are off right now, as the political thing points up the fact that Mike is operating as if he is completely independent of the group.

The problem is, in terms of the history of the band as even the "mob wife" contingent over at "the nearest faraway place" sees it--hell, they actually had a very good thread there about the Holland years, which at least by implication suggests that the 67-73 period is highly regarded by a majority of "embedded" BB fans--if this set doesn't come out, it becomes a victory for those who want to push the pre-'66 material as the only thing that matters.

That's why the full track list needs to be leaked NOW, in order to capitalize on what is now once again in the public eye--the ongoing fracture in the band regarding its own identity. It's a perfect story for this moment in 20/20.

As much as I sympathize with those who suffered through the process of creating the set, I think the chances of creating a big enough public cause celebre about the situation will be squandered without someone stepping up to the plate and handing over that track list to the media.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

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