[Endless Harmony]

Main reason the "CIFTTM" track wasn't on the 1993 box is because it wasn't discovered until the research for Endless Harmony... during which the master for "Battle Hymn..." was also located (and i've told that tale so often, I'll not bore you with it again).

Any idea how the sound quality is on the vintage mono mix of CITFOTM?  The reason I ask is the version in circulation is such poor quality. Is there a tape source in the vault that has the chorus vox?

VDP has commented on some of the SMiLE tracks mentioned here. Back in 2004 post release of BWPS he gave quite a few interviews.

He did mention that he had never heard the track 'Holidays' until Darian played it for him. Darian himself was unsure that the lyrics for 'Child' that Van Dyke presented for BWPS were from 1966 or 2003. The general opinion is thst they were of the latter date. He has confirmed that he did write lyrics for 'Child' in 1966.

'Look', according to Brian (also in 2004) was originally an instrumental.

I cannot recall him saying anything about 'Da Da' etc.

 

Are you sure about Look? There was a group vocal overdub session for Look that has never turned up anywhere.

Interesting about VDP confirming that he wrote CITFOTM lyrics in '66. Did he hint as to why he decided to write new lyrics? That right there is my Smile holy grail. Seems odd that both Brian and Van Dyke wouldn't remember the lyrics.  I wish Al would give an in depth interview about  the recordings. I bet he remembers stuff like that.

After all of these years, decades actually, I still find it hard to believe, in my opinion unfair (but I'll never win THAT argument), that we, the fans, can't ask Brian or Van Dyke a simple question about SMiLE, and get a straight answer.

Amen brother! What blows me away is that after all of the '04 Smile hoopela we *still* don't know if Van Dyke wrote lyrics for the Child verses in 1966, we still don't know what Great Shape was, and we don't know if Look/I Ran had lyrics in 1966. I can't beleive that after the album, documentary and dozens of interviews we stil don't know those things.

If something was recorded it seems odd that it wasn't found a few years later when the Surf's Up was worked on again for the LP with the same name.

It does seem strange, I guess the explanation might be that they needed to create an impression of Brian's presence which led to the inclusion of his solo piano demo for the second part, and they would not have had a way of combining this with what was recorded in Jan, so to use the latter would have meant new vocals not by Brian.

??

Not sure but I thought Stephen Desper has said that all they found was part 1 and the double tracked 'demo'.

If either of the two sessions that day were canceled, it would be noted thus on the AFM sheet.

Ah, thanks for that. Damn, I really want to hear what was recorded

Do we know for certain this session actually occured or might be one of the sessions Brian cancelled because of bad vibes or something similar? If something was recorded it seems odd that it wasn't found a few years later when the Surf's Up was worked on again for the LP with the same name.

In any event it doesn't appear to be the tape alleged to exist with the "strange string parts" as the studio musicians assembled were drums, double bass, several sax players and guitarists. Carl was one of the guitarists so if something of note was recorded I'd think he would have remembered it only 3 years later. Of course I could be completely wrong

The cool thing about the DCC (and this upcoming release) is that it is as close to the master tape prepared by Chuck and Brian as you can get - NO EQ was applied, this is how the Pet Sounds master would sound if you were in the control room listening to the final mix on the master with Brian.  And were using the same studio speakers.  And the master tape is now gone, so there won't be another mastering of the tape.

Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ. 

Mark is critical of every Beach Boys CD he wasn't personally involved in. To bolster his opinion more weight he often says "Brian didn't like that version" or "Brian didn't approve it".

Do we know if they attempted any songs other than what made the LP during the Smiley sessions?

I know there's been a lot of debate over what the motivations behind Smiley Smile were, but here's what I think. The album itself was a joke. Tired of the pressures of fame and greed (unsupportive band and record company), Brian took recordings that cost thousands upon thousands of dollars to make, cast them aside, got himself and his "square" bandmates stoned completely out of their minds, and then recorded the results and presented it to the record company as one big joke.

That sounds like you are trying to make excuses for your hero's bizzare behavior.  That the great Brian Wilson couldn't produce something as odd as Smiley Smile unless it was a joke..

He claims that it exists, but from what I know, it's never turned up.

Alan Boyd noted that the tape box for "Surf's Up (Part 2)" is empty. But that doesn't mean the tape was stolen. It may have been empty back in the early '70s, when Steve Desper and Carl Wilson were piecing it together for the 1971 released version. Brian said in a 1968 interview that the song briefly broke the Beach Boys up, and Jules Siegal noted a major fight during one of the "Surf's Up" sessions. Not to get all conspirtorial, but perhaps Brian did destroy that tape.

Are you sure Alan said that about Surf's Up (Part 2)? I know he posted here awhile back that there were several empty Smile era tape boxes but I don't remember him saying that specifically about Surf's Up (Part 2). I thought the current thinking was that the 1/67 Surf's Up session didn't take place or was for something other than Surf's Up?

On the official Beach Boys box set that had the five or six 'SMiLE' releases on it, does anybody recall where the middle section of DYLW came from? It's where the 'Bicycle Rider' section would have gone, except this  section sounds slightly warped (I think it sounds almost like a mellotron with Brian chanting over it-'oom dada'). I seem to recall someone saying it came from a box that had different little bits on it, but I can't recall what it was-doesn anybody know?

The "Warped" section is a mastering defect by Capitol, which causes the tape to drag(I.E. slow down) at 2 places.

I don't know if I would call it a mastering error. There was probably a tape drag and they decided not to fix it digitally. It is interesting that that section isn't on any of the boots.

That section was recorded separately, for possible use as an edit piece. It is not on the boots because it was not an original part of any take of "Do You Like Worms".

Where did you get that from?

On the official Beach Boys box set that had the five or six 'SMiLE' releases on it, does anybody recall where the middle section of DYLW came from? It's where the 'Bicycle Rider' section would have gone, except this  section sounds slightly warped (I think it sounds almost like a mellotron with Brian chanting over it-'oom dada'). I seem to recall someone saying it came from a box that had different little bits on it, but I can't recall what it was-doesn anybody know?

The "Warped" section is a mastering defect by Capitol, which causes the tape to drag(I.E. slow down) at 2 places.

I don't know if I would call it a mastering error. There was probably a tape drag and they decided not to fix it digitally. It is interesting that that section isn't on any of the boots.

It is almost certain that there are acetates in existence that contain material that has not been booted.

I don't think many unheard vocals could be found on acetates, but the final version of "Wind Chimes" would be realistic for example. The mix Michael Vosse talked about in 1969. I know the boxset version is supposed to be finished, but according to Vosse there were little music box overdubs on the piano part, mixed with different echos. Brian's musical arrangement of wind chimes tingling in the rough wind. Would love to hear that.

Wow. That is fascinating. I'll have to read that 1969 Vosse interview again. I was thinking that the acetates might have Look/IRan with the group vocal ovedubs and CITFOTM with verse vocals. Another possibility I considered was DYLW with the 'ribbon of concrete' vocal. Do you think the acetates might have this stuff?

I guess that the bottom of the barrel has been scraped. Mike Love once explained the lack of an official Beach Boys "Smile" compilation by saying "You've got it all already". Perhaps we do. There's still the hope that Capitol or Brother may uncover some previously unheard material from tapes that were misplaced,misfiled,stolen or weren't retrieved from studios or labels or individuals who owned those studios.

While there likely isn't much Smile stuff in the Brother vaults that hasn't been booted (save for Jazz, more Great Shape instro takes, etc) much of what we know exists will present substantial sonic upgrades over what circulates. Some of the stuff we have sounds awful (CITFORM for instance). The stuff we do have from acetate sounds really poor. I'm sure the extant acetates or best tape copies of the acetates will sound better than. let's say, the version of Old Master Painter with vocals that circulates.

It is almost certain that there are acetates in existence that contain material that has not been booted. Alan Boyd has said that here. What is interesting is that with all of the Smile stuff that has been booted we only have a handful of vintage BW mixes. The Smile sessions lasted 8-9 months. We know that during that span BW had to have done tons of rough mixes and test edits. Where is all that stuff?

Alas, "Part 2" remains unfound. I think Alan Boyd reported a few years back that there was a tape box for that session, but it was empty. I don't want to get all mysterious sounding here. I tend to speak in grail connotations and really shouldn't. For all we know, the tape was damaged, misplaced or just never turned out. After all, Carl Wilson, Jack Rieley and Stephen Desper never came across that section back in 1971. Not sure if anyone has anything further or not.

Alan has said here that there are several empty Smile era tape boxes but I'm almost positive he didn't specifically mention Surf's Up 'part 2'.

Others can provide more details but some of the experts are of the opinon that 'part 2' may have not been recorded. 

Does anyone know if group vocals were ever added to part 1 in '66/'67?

From the archives of this very site, for those interested who haven't read this stuff:

 http://thesmileshop.net/index.php/Durrie_Parks%27_Acetates

Thanks for posting that. Some of those Peter Reum quotes really frustrate me.

"Brian and Van are such creative guys that they wouldn't have to hear Durrie's acetates to finish Smile"

"Durrie's stuff was unnecessary. If there is material she has that is not on the finished composition, it probably truly is an outtake, and would be interesting only for an archival release of the session sketches, like outtakes from Pet Sounds on the Pet Sounds Boxed Set (e.g. Brian screwing up the verses to WIBN)..."

It seems odd to me that they didn't at least audition the Parks acetates during the preperation of BWPS. Why write a vocal melody and new lyrics for, let's say, CITFOTM without at least listening to the most finished '66 version? (assuming there is a CITFOTM in Durrie's collection). I was really frustrating that with all the hoopela surrounding BWPS we still don't know what the CITFOTM lyrics were or what Great Shape was.

Anyone know for certain if the BWPS Look/SFC vocal melody is vintage '66?

All the answers are in a box under some old clothes in Durrie Park's basement! 

I can't understand why they can't aquire the Durrie Parks acetates. IIRC Alan Boyd has said here that they want to purchase any unheard Smile material. Obviously they know Durrie has the acetates right? Why can't they work something out? Didn't Durrie tell someone on the old Shop she planned on going through that stuff?

I guess the fact that they didn't find a 2nd movement backing track in '71 speaks volumes. If it existed in '67 I assume it would've still be there in '71 (unless BW burned that session..)

Anyone have any thoughts on whether Van Dyke wrote verse lyrics for CITFOTM in '66? If so any evidence they were recorded?

[Current concensus seems to be - it was never recorded]

I'm not aware of any AFM/session sheet that refers specifically to a 2nd movement of "SU".  The existance of this tape had been hotly debated for over 20 years. Current concensus seems to be - it was never recorded.

Thanks for posting that text - glad to know part of my memory still functions.

You just broke my heart. How did the fabled "2nd Movement" session get tied to that 1/23/67 session? Do you think something else was recorded or that session never took place?

While I'm at it are we sure the group vocal sessions for Look/I Ran and IIGS took place?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

What I want to know is did Van Dyke write lyrics for CITFOTM in 1966 and if so where are those lyrics? Are they lost to history?

Dick Dale has claimed that Hendrix threw that line into "Third Stone From The Sun" when he heard that Dale was diagnosed with what was believed to be terminal colon cancer in '66 (Dale, fortunately, survived and has remained healthy since). I don't know if anyone else has substantiated Dale's claim, but there would certainly be no reason for Hendrix to diss someone like Dale whom he did admire (the line is "you'll never hear surf music again", not "you'll never have to hear surf music again" - it's intent sounds more nostalgic or mournful than critical).

By the way, Dale covered the Hendrix track a number of year ago with the opening spoken-word statement: "I'm still here Jimi; wish you were".

On the session tape after "you'll never hear surf music again" Jimi chucks and says "that sounds like a lie to me"..

I don't see a point in a SMiLE boxset. A PET SOUNDS box made sense, because it's a 'making of' of a finished album. Regarding SMiLE, a release with SMiLE in the titel should include all the stuff that exists in the vaults: all the pieces, all the takes, all the mixes, all the acetates to give the listener an accurate impression of what this album could have been and most important: To work with it. And, no orientation on BWPS, not because I don't like it, but these two projects are 2 separate pairs of shoes to me. BB SMiLE didn't lose any of it's fascination over the years. The genius of it is that it's interactive and changes all the time. There must be thousands of finished SMiLE's out there. A boxset would be an attempt to imprison the thoughts of the creators. Keep the myth alive and SMiLE a underground project that IMO makes the BB interesting, fascinates people and is also good promotion in many ways.

I can't agree with that at all. A Smile box doesn't have to present the material as an album. All it needs to do is feature the most complete/most interesting material recorded between August '66 to May '67 in the best possible quality. The "point" of a Smile box is to get the material "out there" from the tapes so we don't have to listen to CITFOTM et al. in sh*t quality anymore..

presumably midnight hour is a cover of the Wilson Pickett song - a precursor to Brian's turn to R & B with Wild Honey, perhaps?  It's on a Holidays session tape, so may have been recorded at the same date, Sept 8, 1966 at Western.  Interesting though is that it's on an 8 track tape labelled Holidays/In the Midnight Hour.  Western didn't have 8 track at that time, only Columbia did, so this is probably a  transfer to 8 track for vocal overdubbing at Columbia in 1966 OR could have been a tranfer by Stephen Desper and Carl in 1971 when they were cataloguing and preserving Smile tracks for a possible completion/release as a 2 fer with Holland.  If the latter, In the Midnight Hour may have originally been a separate tape from a different date which Stephen combined onto one.  Haven't heard from any tape vault rats as to whether this is still in the tape archive (it was in the early 90's when Brad Elliott reported this information) or what In the Midnight Hour actually is - instrumental or vocal.

There seems to be a great sounding version of OMP without vocals but the version with Dennis' lead sounds terrible. Anyone know if there's a clear sounding version of OMP + vocals in circulation?

The version in of OMP with vox in circulation sounds like it's from a crappy tape dub of an acetate. My guess is that the actual acetate sounds much better than that..