Where would Brian Wilson be if the Beach Boys had never existed?

That's the classic "straw-man" question.

As long as we're dealing in hypotheticals, who's to say the "Beach Boys" wouldn't have come into existence without Mike? That's hardly implausible. I think I'm on safe ground saying that while all the BBs were contributors - and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts  - the one indispensible part was Brian.  Not Mike.

I'm glad he's (Mike) getting a taste of what he's so fond of dishing out.

Just heard Wedensday's show.  Much clearer, Brian sounds much better, and the addition of Taylor apparently much healthier and singing her parts makes it a muuuuuch better show. 

I gotta go find that... even the September 10th show sounds great, I can't imagine how good Wednesday would be. That excerpt from Can't Wait Too Long is utterly gorgeous. Even on the audience recording the harmonies are magnificent.

I wonder if we'll get many opportunities to see this show here in the midwestern USA.

Well to be honest..the rest of the band don't really deserve something like a Kennedy Center Honor,

In my opinion they do, because the whole was greater than the parts, 

That is certainly true, but the largest and most important single part was Brian without a doubt. I'm sure that's why the honor goes to him personally.

And also this...us saying that Darian did a majority of it in know way shape or form means that BWPS wasn't a great album. Far from it. In fact, to me, it is more proof that Darian (and Scott Bennett) is who Brian *should* be working with.

So true...

I have felt for years that Brian's current band is the best thing that could have ever happened to him. I agree with AGD, no Darian = no BWPS. Darian got a LOT of help from Paul Mertens and the Tasty Brothers too, from what I gather. And it's clear that there is some serious chemistry between Brian and Scott Bennett.

But a few years ago there were a sizable number of people who attacked the BW Band and its members relentlessly, and did everything they could to paint them in a bad light. The reasons given were everything from "we don't like the way Darian sings 'doo-you' ", to seemingly endless bashing of Nick Walusko for the way he said "you're under arrest", to "Bob Lizik is a terrible bass player who uses crummy bass guitars"! There was even a rumor started at one time that a couple band members had been fired for (what was hinted at) sinister reasons! It seems the band was guilty of an unforgiveable sin - they weren't the Beach Boys. There are some who still can't let that go.

In this phase of Brian's career, his (can you still call them "new" - they've played together for 7 years) new band is clearly fueling a creative renaissance that is way beyond anything I ever dreamed of. "Midnight's Another Day" is spectacular, and there is the promise of more coming. Do the "reunionists" really think that Al, Mike, or Bruce could or would produce a collaborative effort with Brian that could compare with MAD?

Returning to the original topic of the thread... I stopped listening to MAD for about a week just so I didn't get tired of it. I went back yesterday for a listen again. Man, it's magnificent, it's so powerful! Scott's great lyrics applied to Brian's emotionally charged music have created something special IMHO.

I think all of us enjoy or have views on certain demos and unreleased recordings. I'm just bringing back that fact that I think is being pushed aside somewhat in the rush to praise (yet another of?) Brian's comebacks. I like the song, and I like the demo. But it might end up being another should've/could've been, that's all.

Point well taken! But the post-Smile output from Brian has been a cut above most of what immediately preceeded it IMHO. WIRWFC, Christmasey, WDTPOL, What Love Can Do, and now this - I see it in a very positive light. No, it won't be the 1960s again (and maybe it shouldn't be), but clearly this is a move in the right direction. I think in the context of post-Smile this demo deserves the praise its getting as yet another indication that Brian can indeed make music that moves people.

It's pleasant listening, and bodes well for the rest of the completed piece.  It does sound like a demo, though, note the synth bass and the unpolished nature of the lead vocals.  The horn is a nice touch, definitely a keeper.  Just remember Scott played that too, being the brass player in the band, so that's why it's in the demo.  It will be interesting to see how this fits into the final sequence, i.e., will it segue to or from something else.

I've never seen Scott play brass instruments with the band, it's either Probyn Gergory or Paul von Mertens who does. Maybe Scott can play brass instruments too (he can play everything else it seems!) but I don't think it was him.

Jim: Does the music itself sound like Scott's album? My impression is that much of the music and some of the lyrics in MAD are Brian's ("all these people make me feel so alone" is a BW line through and through). But I could be wrong.

I wouldn't say MAD sounds like Scott's CD generally, but there are some similarities to some of Scott's songs. "Pearls" is dominated by a solo piano, and has some lyrical content that is not too different from MAD.

Here's the lyrics to "Pearls":

Watch the spinning blades of time
Shred the final days of your prime
There is no warning, only the sound
Of the echo in your head

Wading in the shallow end
Waiting for the tide or the bends
Open your eyes, hold your breath
Lean your body backward, stretch your arms
And lie down on the ocean floor

Just because you can't sleep
Doesn't mean you can't dream

If that's the way you plan it
You'll go empty handed
Diving for pearls

If that's the way you plan it
You'll go empty handed
Diving for pearls

Diving... diving for pearls

Anyway, that's the song on Scott's CD that I think is most similar to MAD. There is a similar feel to the two songs - the piano, the wordless BVs, the sense of melancholy...

That's about the best answer I can come up with.

Have you listened to Scott Bennet's solo album?  Try.

Yes, many times. I like it a lot. The piano style on MAD is very Scott-like, and the lyrics remind me a bit of "Pearls" - which I think is a really fine song. I also listened to how nicely the Brian/Scott "No Wrong Notes In Heaven" comes off, and it feels like maybe that was the beginning of the process that led to this. It would seem the chemistry between the two is right.

If they produce music like MAD together I don't care who is "in charge".

Darian said that his work with Disney (writing songs for an animated movie) couldn't allow him to do the shows, but if I'm correct he'll be back for the September shows at the RFH. Don't know about Scott though...

Scott was at one of the West coast shows not long ago (as was Darian). I don't know what it is, but he (Scott) had some commitment he had to keep so he couldn't go to Europe. IIRC, both will be there in September from what I read elsewhere.

Neither has left the band or anything like that. That's good, because with no offense meant to Billy or Gary, Scott and Darian are much better musicians - and Scott is certainly much more versatile than almost anybody in the band except maybe Probyn.

Speaking of Brian singing "Catch A Wave"....

What hasn't been addressed too much is the setlist. So, Brian's added "Catch A Wave", "Wendy", "Drive In", and "Hawaii" to the already present "I Get Around", "Surfin' USA", "Barbara Ann", "Fun Fun Fun".

What's my point? I'm back to beating dead horses again. How come when Mike & Bruce depend heavily on these "fun in the sun" songs, they are criticized, but when Brian adds them, it's cool that he's revisiting them?

Now don't answer that Mike & Bruce have always relied on them, where with Brian those songs come and go. The truth is, for the last few years, the setlists are appearing more and more similar. It is now time! Anybody have Mike Love's phone number?

Well, without Darian and Scott I suspect the set list has to be pretty small and not too adventurous.

But having said that I agree with you. There is SO much great stuff I'd rather hear. How about "What Love Can Do", GIOMH (the song), "What I Really Want For Christmas" and "Christmasey" (at the right time of year), "South American", and other Imagination and later stuff?

I want to hear them do "Girls On The Beach", "She Knows Me Too Well" (with Jeff on lead), "Melt Away", "The Night Was So Young", "This Isn't Love",  "Wake The World", and so on. They did a few of those in the past, why aren't they still in the set list? Maybe do one set of greatest hits, and one set of obscurities - maybe even include some other band members' work BW appeared on or wrote - "No Wrong Notes In Heaven" by Scott Bennett, "Ride" by Wondermints, "Guess I'm Dumb" and "Do You Have Any Regrets" with Darian on lead. That would be great.

There's so much that could be done to break out of the "Greatest Hits" pattern.

By the way, I'm only at In My Room,  but I was expecting a lot worse. I've heard other shows where BW is this bad. And I must admit, he does at least seem animated in his (subpar) performance, which beats being robotic. His little extra things are amusing.

When I first saw Smile, Glasgow 04, he was TERRIBLE in the first half. His Time To Get Alone was disturbingly bad to the point that I had honestly wondered whether he'd even return for the Smile segment.

I think "Time To Get Alone" is out of the set list. He hasn't performed it since 04 IIRC, and I never heard him do it well. I just don't think he can sing it in the original key. It would be nice if he'd let Jeff or Probyn Gregory take the lead (listen to Probyn's lead on "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" from the 'Mints "Wonderful World..." CD - he'd be perfect). But like so many other songs that used to be song by other BB members Brian apparently feels he's the only one that can take leads. Too bad...

Who is the keyboardist other than Hinsche?

Gary Griffin, he's filled in for Darian in the past when Darian was with heart or otherwise indisposed.

Brian - pretty awful... there were a few exceptions, but I've never heard him sound that bad.

And the band sorely misses Scott and Darian. That's a lot of musical horsepower to do without. Billy ain't no Scott, and Gary ain't no Darian.

Just got the CD, my wife picked it up at the local Target for me.

I was surprised how great it was to hear the mid-60s aged BW and that fabulous band perform GOK. I thought the band was really tight and crisp, Probyn's French horn was really expressive. The whole song exceeded my expectations by a very long way. I actually started to choke up a bit...

"What Can Love Do"  is simply wonderful! It's really well recorded, the BVs are great, and Brian's leads are really good. I must confess that the guitar solo does indeed seem out of place and uninspired now that I've heard it on something besides a 32K stream. Why the solo was played by someone outside the band is puzzling too. I'm sure Nick or Scott could have played a much more creative solo than what's-his-name did. But other than that it's as good as I imagined it would be!

Thanks to Tord for the link.

I love it, I've listened to it a number of times now. I agree with Chris, I'll take more of this ANY time from Brian. There's no mistaking the Bacharach in the song, but there's a lot of Brian in the vocals, both lead and backing. There's some real nice changes in it that sound very Brian-ish.

The band sounds terrific too. Great BVs, really perfect for this song. I don't even mind the guitar solo.

I definitely need to buy the CD.

his covers of ELO's Telephone Line, the Sunrays' I live for the Sun, and the song Fish are worth the price of admission, let alone the vocals only version of Laughter in the Rain

Yep, FISH! is amazing, I love the way he slides into the falsetto at the end of the first verse.

If you can find Cool & Gone, Jeffrey does the old Jesse Colin Young tune "Sunlight" and it's just heavenly. "It's My Fault" is great too, as is "Everybody" and "Summer Means New Love".

On Twelve & Twelve, I love the duet with Jeff Larson on Larson's "The Word Go".  And he and Larry Ramos (from The Association) do a killer version of the Hollies' "I Can't Let Go".

I could go on and on. It's all good!

He wrote some of the best songs on 'Mind if we make love to you'. Would be a shame if he and the band are no more (figuratively speaking).

I thought the party line was that he went to spend more time with his family. I suspect they thought Nelson was a more dynamic stage presence, which he certainly was!

Mike D'Amico lives in Florida, and did leave due to personal issues. He has a young child and he felt he needed to be home more after his child was born.  And living in Florida made rehearsing a big problem too. That was why he stopped touring with BW, there was nothing sinister about it at all that I'm aware of.

Mike is a very accomplished musician, and even more versatile than Nelson in that he also plays guitar and bass as well as all the percussion. As far as stage presence, while he's not quite as animated as Nelson I've also heard him described as the "cute one". So he seems to have some special appeal to some of the women in the audience.

Watch the "Pet Sounds Live" DVD, and you can see a great example of how good Mike was on percussion. In the video the clip of the song "Pet Sounds" was shot when Andy Paley was touring in Mike's spot. For less complex/energetic/demanding percussion Andy did fine. But Scott Bennett had to take the second percussion part (is there anything he can't do, the guy is amazing!) in "Pet Sounds" - whereas Mike handled it very well when he was with the band.

I agree with the second post, he wrote some great songs - Cellophane (from "Bali") and the trio of songs from MIWMLTY are great too - I love "Something I Knew". As far as the 'Mints doing more work together - boy, I hope so! But Darian was quoted as saying the the 'Mints currently "exist more as a concept", I guess that means they simply can't get their own stuff done with all the other work with BW and Darian's work with Disney complicating the 3000 mile distance between band members.

This Whole World (lead: Darian and Jeff)

I have a recording of a live Wondermints show with them doing This Whole World With Darian singing lead. It's really really good! He absolutely nails the lead. I wish the recording quality was better, but the whole band sounds incredible, Darian especially.

I love your idea of different BW band members taking some leads. I'd also like to hear them do a couple non-BW songs - like Scott Bennett's "Pearls", Jeff's "It's My Fault", and the 'Mints "Hypnolove" or "Ride".

[indispensable]

Brian is a co-author on most of the songs and the producer for hire by Capitol and deserves most credit for the development of the material but  I'd go alot further in giving the Boys creative credit because those who attended the sessions do.  If the Boys were musicians for hire then Brian was too. Regardless of who knew whose name or history back then or now, The Boys deserve a lot more ownership than many are willing to give them imo, the material was developed by them for them as a group and they together did pay for all the sessions in which they developed the material by multiple authors [with the most authorship to Brian].  One can legitimately question the right of Brian to solely benefit from that group effort on the group's dime under the group's banner.

"Producer for hire"??

Brian was one of the "musicians for hire"??

Are you serious? The rest of the boys should get credit because they paid for the sessions?? If someone donates a piece of canvas to Degas or Van Gogh do they deserve partial credit for his masterpiece painted on it? Aren't you also forgetting the rest of the band did get monetary and other benefit from those sessions with the release of Smiley Smile, H&V, Surf's Up, etc.?

I sometimes wonder if that is what you really believe or if you post it just to get a reaction.

I look at it this way. There were only three people that were indispensable for Smile/BWPS to exist - Brian and Van Dyke. For it to get finished add Darian Sahanaja. 

None of this means anything as regards the original poster's question IMHO. Very few people care at this point, let alone in the future.

On topic answer: The whole BWPS multimedia project will be viewed as 2004 Brian Wilson revisiting the album that the Beach Boys never finished in 1967.

PS: I'm not interested in debating what "finishing Smile" means. Whoever disagrees with my 'projection' is free to post their own.

It's funny - I was auditioning some speakers at an audio shop last week and I happened to have BWPS on CD with me so I used that to listen (since I was familiar with how it sounds in my own system). The handful of people in the shop had no idea it was something that had its origins in the 60s! They just thought it was a pretty weird CD.

When you get away from the core BB/BW fan group I think the knowledge about Smile's roots is pretty thin.

I don't think the original question was intended to be a review of the CD. Where will BWPS as a whole stand was the question I think. Which means the live performances, the DVD, etc.

Am I correct?

Not liking the CD would seem to be a different question. Is there somebody here who saw BWPS live and didn't like it, wasn't amazed by it? Don't the vast majority of people here who have viewed the DVD live performance find it to be really good? Don't most people here find the reviews of BWPS (live, DVD, LP, or CD)  - especially given its rank on Metacritic and the wide range of reviews/reviewers - to be a very positive part of the BWPS experience?

Long term, all those will figure into the whole BWPS image IMHO.
 

Did I say it wasn't the real thing? No I didn't. I just prefer the other version. Okay if you played Smile to a load of people who had never heard Smile before which one would they like better? Some would pick BWPS because it was in their eyes completed and it has more words then the last one. I would think a good chunk would pick the latter because for one The Beach Boys are actually in it and its Brian at his best sounding. I am looking at it because I never experienced the whole drama of it coming out for 20 some years so to actually listen to it in fragments made it only more cooler for me. Its just my 0.02 so take it or leave it 

It's not worth arguing about anymore - but while I didn't maintain you said it wasn't the real thing (I merely posed a question), descriptive phrases like "the protools one", and "its like building sand" could easily lead someone to ask the question I did, wouldn't you agree?

Its crazy I remember I use to listen to that 3 times a day just to learn the lyrics so I could sing along at my first show... gosh it feels so long ago. Once I found out it wasn't the only smile then no it didn't stand. I even like Smiley Smile now, so I am more sold on the 60s productions then the protools one. Some of it is good on BWPS but if you try to compare it with the orginals, its like building sand.

So are we back to "BWPS isn't the real Smile" again? It would appear so...

One thing I'm virtually sure of - we'd NEVER have gotten a live performance of Smile like we got in 2004-2005 if it had been finished in the 60s. IMHO the live Smile performances are virtually without parallel from any time period. It was like hearing Paul Whiteman's orchestra play "Rhapsody In Blue" for the first time.

I went to 2 Smile Shows Election Night Nov. 2004 in L.A.  and to the Hollywood Bowl in 2005.  As stunning as the 2004 show was it struck me that the 2005 edition was even better.  I perceived that there was more of a jazz element inserted in the 2005 performance and it was a great move.  I thought the performers had (not long but significant) moments of improvisation and that this helped the performance considerably.  In particular it added freshness and vitality that  addressed the re-recorded-from-1967 factor mentioned above that is in the back (or front) of everybodys mind.       

I'm jealous. My second look at Smile live was in summer 2005 at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. The air conditioning broke down in the theater, the theater management handled it very poorly, and I heard later that a couple people in the band got sick from the heat on stage. It was a major disappointment, there was no way the band could be into it. Survive it would likely be more accurate in describing their goal. As well, this was during the period when the live sound mixes were not very good.

I wonder if that's going to be my last hearing of it live (in person). I sure hope not.

I ask this because the other day I decide (after almost a year) to put the album on my turntable. I had been listening the '66-'67 music almost religously and decided to listen to the 2004 version. By the time I had got to "Child is Father to The Man" I lost interest and turned it off. Now back when it came out I would listen to it a lot, but since listening to my records of the original material I just lost interest.

Maybe it's the fact that a 24 year Brian Wilson (at the height of his creative powers) with The Beach Boys singing is going to be a much provacative listen then a 62 year Brian Wilson with his band essentially doing cover versions of the same songs.

I wouldn't say that's fact - except to say that is a factual representation of your opinion. My opinion is they aren't "covers", and I find Brian's band's singing every bit as compelling as the old BBs. So we disagree on that, but that's really not germane to the interesting question you posed.

Maybe it was getting my copy of the 3 LP boot and seeing that original cover art in LP size and thinking that I am now the owner of one of the coolest items imaginable. To top it off it also came with all the goodies (poster, booklet and session worksheets)

or maybe I just listened to BWPS too much.

Anyway. Just wondering if you still feel that the album still stands? Do you still listen? Do you feel that it will be remembered years from now or has BWPS just sparked interest in the old material?

I think it definitely does still stand - but I rarely listen to the studio CD or vinyl. The live performance DVD simply blows them away. I play the "Live" DVD more than the CD by about a 20 to 1 factor. I play the DVD quite often.

For me, the most exquisite moment of the whole BWPS thing was the live performance I saw back in September 2004. It was stunning. The CD just doesn't capture the "electricity" the live performance created. I'm still amazed it could be performed live with that level of musicianship and feeling.

"Has BWPS just sparked interest in the old material?" I think people's level of interest in the old material is highly dependent on how into it they were before the BWPS release. Meaning that for the average buyer of a recording of BWPS there was little interest in the old material, and there is likely less now. I know in my case I pay no attention to the old material at all anymore. It has only historical interest to me. I do find myself very interested in how BWPS came to be though, the "making of" tracks on the DVD are also still getting a lot of play here.

My 2 cents anyway...

I haven't heard it except for when I play it as yet. But I think the title cut is one of Brian's best melodies ever and as someone else pointed out - it is a very sophisticated and complex arrangement. Bernie Taupin's lyrics are about as good as it gets too, some of the lines in there are classics. When Brian sings "Lucky to be home, when some are all alone" - that line and the gorgeous BVs just get to me every time. Such a simple lyric, but very emotionally delivered and very powerful.

A year later I still can't listen to a few of the Christmas "standards", but the 2 new songs have continued to grow on me - especially WIRWFC - and the reworking of TMWATT has completely supplanted the BBs version. Lots of great stuff.

Finally, I notice more and more the impact of Taylor Mills' voice on the blend. And I like it, especially on the new songs.

I still love it a year later. I play it way more than any other Christmas CD - I play it year 'round too.