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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 12:54:11 AM



Title: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 12:54:11 AM
Which run of the twofers sounds best? Also: can you elaborate about the quality of the later Caribou vs. Capitol albums (e.g. Surf's Up on Caribou vs. Surf's Up as part of the Capitol twofer with Sunflower)? What difference does HDCD make? Do the more recent series suffer from brickwalling?

All type of replies are welcome!


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 05, 2011, 01:37:08 AM
Which run of the twofers sounds best? Also: can you elaborate about the quality of the later Caribou vs. Capitol albums (e.g. Surf's Up on Caribou vs. Surf's Up as part of the Capitol twofer with Sunflower)? What difference does HDCD make? Do the more recent series suffer from brickwalling?

All type of replies are welcome!

Very well... I have no idea.  ;D


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 01:41:56 AM
Which run of the twofers sounds best? Also: can you elaborate about the quality of the later Caribou vs. Capitol albums (e.g. Surf's Up on Caribou vs. Surf's Up as part of the Capitol twofer with Sunflower)? What difference does HDCD make? Do the more recent series suffer from brickwalling?

All type of replies are welcome!

Very well... I have no idea.  ;D

Then you're no longer 'our' AGD!  >:D >:D >:D

No, sorry... I see a possibility to get an inexpensive CD machine with a HDCD chip, that is one of the reasons I inquired...


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: lance on February 05, 2011, 02:14:15 AM
The 1990 ones have some sort of noise reduction applied, which takes out mid-range sounds, and consequently makes the higher range seem really shrill--it hurts my ears with headphones. Physical pain.

The 2000 ones are mastered loud, which also hurts your ears, but at least the mid range is there.

Friends-2020 from 1990 sounds great, though, Ill tell you that.

I havent heard the Caribou albums. The twofers are mastered loud.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 02:23:46 AM
The 1990 ones have some sort of noise reduction applied, which takes out mid-range sounds, and consequently makes the higher range seem really shrill--it hurts my ears with headphones. Physical pain.

The 2000 ones are mastered loud, which also hurts your ears, but at least the mid range is there.

Friends-2020 from 1990 sounds great, though, Ill tell you that.

I havent heard the Caribou albums. The twofers are mastered loud.

Remarkable. I'd say that the 1990 ones could have formed an ideal learning platform. But according to your experiences, the newer ones fell victim to the loudness wars... I'm curious if more people share your views. Thanks anyways for posting this.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: lance on February 05, 2011, 03:01:06 AM
Yeah, in short, neither twofer edition is ideal.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Paulos on February 05, 2011, 03:27:49 AM
While we are talking abut the twofers, does anyone know why Today! has such a 'muddy' sound and is this the case with the original vinyl release?


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 03:38:45 AM
While we are talking abut the twofers, does anyone know why Today! has such a 'muddy' sound and is this the case with the original vinyl release?

Strange... I have a vinyl re-release dating from around 1988 and that sounds brilliant.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: gxios on February 05, 2011, 06:27:21 AM
I disagree about the 1990 Friends/20-20 cd.  That pressing has the stereo spread folded a bit towards the center (on Friends only, not 20-20), not the wide stereo spread of the lp and 2001 cd.  It sounds wrong to me.  The other comments are pretty much what I believe- the 1990 versions are basically less messed with but have too much noise reduction.  The 2001 versions have less noise reduction but more messing around with the signal, and are louder.  The bonus tracks were remixed for the 1990 and again for the 2001  versions, so there are some differences.  A couple of the 2001's have special bonus material after the end of the disc. "Today" has always sounded a bit muffled in all its incarnations- the best I've heard is the Japanese "Pastmasters" series cd version of it- but it still isn't a night and day difference.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: drbeachboy on February 05, 2011, 07:09:57 AM
If you get the HDCD player, the 2-fers will play 6db lower than on a normal player. The Brother stuff (Sunflower onward) is not HDCD and they are a bit louder than the Caribou issues, but they sound much clearer. Also, the 60's CDs are loud, but they are not brickwalled by a long shot. The only rotten sounding loud CD is Sounds Of Summer. My overall opinion is that the 2000/2001 reissues sound better.

EDIT: The 1990 Capitol CDs are no-noised, which to me makes many of the songs sound kind of flat and lackluster, JMHO.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 05, 2011, 07:14:12 AM
The 1990 ones have some sort of noise reduction applied, which takes out mid-range sounds, and consequently makes the higher range seem really shrill--it hurts my ears with headphones. Physical pain.

They used Sonic Solutions NoNoise "to remove tape hiss and other defects", so I doubt that any mid-range went AWOL, rather the top end.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 05, 2011, 07:23:32 AM
Thanks to everyone who contributed so far. I am not a Hoffmannite for sure, more someone who probably will purchase a new CD here and there, to have the best possible line-up in the end. So far I do have the 1990 Capitol twofers, a few Caribou ones (single disks), and a couple of Capitol twofers from 2001, covering what used to be on Caribou.

Please keep on posting if you have any additional personal observations.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: lance on February 05, 2011, 07:24:46 AM
Yeah, I AGD, I'm probably wrong about what was reduced. All I know is that I don't like it--I actually prefer the louder releases to the 1990 ones.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Roger Ryan on February 05, 2011, 07:26:45 AM
Yeah, the top end is gone on the '90 releases. While some folks have complained about audio being clipped on the 2001 issues, they are a long way from the "brickwalling" approach that has become acceptable in the last few years. Speaking specifically to the Warner albums, the Caribou releases were muddy and dull; the Capitol two-fers are much stronger. There is still some channel drop-out apparent, on HOLLAND particularly, but I believe that's inherent in the master tapes (as many audiophiles know, the 70s were not a good time for audio tape).


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: bgas on February 05, 2011, 07:27:38 AM
Thanks to everyone who contributed so far. I am not a Hoffmannite for sure, more someone who probably will purchase a new CD here and there, to have the best possible line-up in the end. So far I do have the 1990 Capitol twofers, a few Caribou ones (single disks), and a couple of Capitol twofers from 2001, covering what used to be on Caribou.

Please keep on posting if you have any additional personal observations.
Ifyou want the best possible versions alltogether, chuck your CDs  and buy a 4 Track Player and some mint Original 4 track tapes( at least thru Sunflower)


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: lance on February 05, 2011, 07:31:20 AM
More observations: I think the Good Vibrations box sounds relatively good; it's certainly not harsh.

I downloaded a copy of Ten Years of Harmony and I think that had better sound than the 2001 releases. I noticed some parts on backing tracks that I hadn't heard before.

Sounds of Summer Platinum Edition, which I think is a European-only collection is a great collection but it is absolutely the LOUDEST record I own, by ANY artist.

I'm hoping against hope that Capitol will re-release those records for us fans, not as two-fers but as single albums with loads of outtakes, instrumentals etc. Until they do, I have no choice but to make my own.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Runaways on February 05, 2011, 07:40:14 AM
While we are talking abut the twofers, does anyone know why Today! has such a 'muddy' sound and is this the case with the original vinyl release?

Strange... I have a vinyl re-release dating from around 1988 and that sounds brilliant.

yeah i've always figured it was just how it was made. 


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: punkinhead on February 05, 2011, 07:45:50 AM
Perhaps this is off track, but doesn't the 70's albums have different mixes.

Notably the oldies, I think.
You'd think I'd have these memorized by now.

I think it was Come Go With Me & Rock and Roll Music that differs.
I'm sure Susie Cincinatti has a different mix on there too...there's like 3 different mixes all together for that one (I think)


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Roger Ryan on February 05, 2011, 07:57:33 AM
Perhaps this is off track, but doesn't the 70's albums have different mixes.

Notably the oldies, I think.
You'd think I'd have these memorized by now.

I think it was Come Go With Me & Rock and Roll Music that differs.
I'm sure Susie Cincinatti has a different mix on there too...there's like 3 different mixes all together for that one (I think)

I believe the wrong mix was used for "Come Go With Me" on TEN YEARS OF HARMONY, right? It's the correct one on the available MIU two-fer. Both "Rock and Roll Music" and "Susie Cincinati" had unique single mixes on Capitol's BEST OF THE BROTHER YEARS CD, but, again, I believe the proper album versions are on the 15 BIG ONES two-fer.

If they are different, it didn't really stand out to me and I've been listening to those tracks since they were released in '76.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: smile-holland on February 05, 2011, 08:55:40 AM
Quoting from memory...

The first digital remastered 1990's CD issue of MIU contained different mixes of Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue and Winds Of Change.

And I think there was a shorter edit of Honkin' Down The Highway (drum intro missing?) on the first CD release of Love You.

And I'm not sure if it was the European or US CD-release, but one of them contained the album instead of single mix (or vice versa) of Callifornia Saga - California and (I think) School Days.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: punkinhead on February 05, 2011, 09:32:34 AM
Quoting from memory...

The first digital remastered 1990's CD issue of MIU contained different mixes of Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue and Winds Of Change.

And I think there was a shorter edit of Honkin' Down The Highway (drum intro missing?) on the first CD release of Love You.

And I'm not sure if it was the European or US CD-release, but one of them contained the album instead of single mix (or vice versa) of Callifornia Saga - California and (I think) School Days.
I know I have that mix of Winds of Change somewhere among the stacks of discs laying around, but can someone refresh my memory of what the different in the mix was from the album mix?

Also, wasn't there a different mix of Sumahama with waves at the beginning or the waves were at the end...or both? idk if that's a single mix or not.

Also Also, wasn't there a single mix of Lady Lynda that didn't have the slow intro with harpsichord or am I just thinking of the 'early version/mix' from the MIU sessions?


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: PhilCohen on February 05, 2011, 09:49:40 AM
While we are talking abut the twofers, does anyone know why Today! has such a 'muddy' sound and is this the case with the original vinyl release?

Yes, the original 1960's vinyl was muddy....and dull. You are best advised to hear the music from either edition of the "Two-Fer". My prefered way of listening to the album is from my homemade stereo disc comprised of a combination of "Sea of Tunes" & Capitol stereo remixes.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 05, 2011, 10:02:54 AM
Quoting from memory...

The first digital remastered 1990's CD issue of MIU contained different mixes of Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue and Winds Of Change.

And I think there was a shorter edit of Honkin' Down The Highway (drum intro missing?) on the first CD release of Love You.

And I'm not sure if it was the European or US CD-release, but one of them contained the album instead of single mix (or vice versa) of Callifornia Saga - California and (I think) School Days.

Re: the latter point - that was the European release of 10 Years Of Harmony, which had the correct single mixes of "Saga" and "R&R Music".

Also, wasn't there a different mix of Sumahama with waves at the beginning or the waves were at the end...or both? idk if that's a single mix or not.

Japanese single version.

Also Also, wasn't there a single mix of Lady Lynda that didn't have the slow intro with harpsichord or am I just thinking of the 'early version/mix' from the MIU sessions?

That was the US single edit.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: smile-holland on February 05, 2011, 11:02:50 AM
Also, wasn't there a different mix of Sumahama with waves at the beginning or the waves were at the end...or both? idk if that's a single mix or not.

Japanese single version.

Didn't know it was also to be found on the Japanese single version. I had read in Brad Elliott's Surf's Up book that it could be found on a Japanese smapler LP called Tropical Sounds.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: JaredLekites on February 08, 2011, 08:12:30 PM
For the albums Pre-Sunflower:

1990 two-fers have noise reduction but not maximized.
2001 two-fers have no noise reduction applied but they are maximized (the music is peak limited so that everything is as loud as possible, sometimes causing digital distortion).

The 2000 two-fers for the albums post-Sunflower are pretty good since they use different mastering engineers than the 2001 project.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again on February 08, 2011, 08:31:58 PM
For some reason I have a vivid memory of listening to the Caribou Holland CD back in 1991 and being blown away by how amazing it sounded. I'm a vinyl geek and will regrettably admit that I went and tracked down a vinyl copy (which in 1991 you could find for 25 cents in some dusty bin somewhere) fully expecting it to sound much much better, but the experience wasn't the same at all. And neither was popping in the 2000 version!

Does anyone still have a Caribou Holland CD laying around?


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: smile-holland on February 09, 2011, 01:21:52 AM
For some reason I have a vivid memory of listening to the Caribou Holland CD back in 1991 and being blown away by how amazing it sounded. I'm a vinyl geek and will regrettably admit that I went and tracked down a vinyl copy (which in 1991 you could find for 25 cents in some dusty bin somewhere) fully expecting it to sound much much better, but the experience wasn't the same at all. And neither was popping in the 2000 version!

Does anyone still have a Caribou Holland CD laying around?

I've got the Epic/Caribou "digitally remastered" Holland album both on CD and vinyl. (as well as the 2000 reissue)


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Pearlfisher David on February 09, 2011, 01:37:15 AM
I'm currently working my way through my vinyl collection, converting to digital via a USB turntable. In through Garageband, topped and tailed, the odd tidy up fade and Bob's your uncle. Amazing how great the results sound compared to stuff that's purely from a digital source.
You could do worse than just forget the CDs and just spend the time converting your vinyl...


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Jay on February 09, 2011, 01:37:25 AM
On my CATP/Holland twofer, Holland sounds like sh*t. Especially on Funky Pretty. I don't know what year it is though.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on February 09, 2011, 07:46:53 PM
I prefer the 1990 discs for the Capitol albums.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: absinthe_boy on February 11, 2011, 04:30:32 AM
I'm currently working my way through my vinyl collection, converting to digital via a USB turntable. In through Garageband, topped and tailed, the odd tidy up fade and Bob's your uncle. Amazing how great the results sound compared to stuff that's purely from a digital source.
You could do worse than just forget the CDs and just spend the time converting your vinyl...

And those USB turntables aren't even especially good.

You could just play records...


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Dr. Tim on February 12, 2011, 03:39:00 PM
I have descanted upon HDCD many times on this site.  I lilke what it does when applied tastefully, as Mark Linett did on the 2000 reissues, BWPS, and the Good Vibrations 40th reissue CD (not on the label but it's there).  I bought a standalone box on eBay, so you don't have to.  Obviously I recommend getting the player with it built in.   Again here's a reminder: all Windows XP and later computers have HDCD built in too and it will engage automatically when you play the CD.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: donald on February 12, 2011, 06:26:45 PM
Sure spent some bucks on upgrading from vinyl to digital Beach Boys over the years.   Not to mention comps and packages.  And I still listen to a lot of it on old vinyl.   And it sounds surprisingly good.   Both Capitol and WB.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Pearlfisher David on February 14, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
I'm currently working my way through my vinyl collection, converting to digital via a USB turntable. In through Garageband, topped and tailed, the odd tidy up fade and Bob's your uncle. Amazing how great the results sound compared to stuff that's purely from a digital source.
You could do worse than just forget the CDs and just spend the time converting your vinyl...

And those USB turntables aren't even especially good.

You could just play records...
very true. not so easy on a train or in a car though  :)


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Bill M on February 15, 2011, 07:33:47 AM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 15, 2011, 07:42:44 AM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)

God, imagine having to exchange 45s every 3 minutes during a 5 hr trip... more dangerous than using a non-handsfree cellphone... :police:


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: JaredLekites on February 15, 2011, 08:53:47 PM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)

God, imagine having to exchange 45s every 3 minutes during a 5 hr trip... more dangerous than using a non-handsfree cellphone... :police:
Not to mention having to watch out for those potholes and bumps in the road to avoid the needle jumping.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on February 16, 2011, 01:21:09 AM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)

God, imagine having to exchange 45s every 3 minutes during a 5 hr trip... more dangerous than using a non-handsfree cellphone... :police:
Not to mention having to watch out for those potholes and bumps in the road to avoid the needle jumping.

 :lol yeah, more difficult than a World Championships Ski Slalom Gold Medal...


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Custom Machine on February 16, 2011, 11:35:22 PM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)

God, imagine having to exchange 45s every 3 minutes during a 5 hr trip... more dangerous than using a non-handsfree cellphone... :police:
Not to mention having to watch out for those potholes and bumps in the road to avoid the needle jumping.

 :lol yeah, more difficult than a World Championships Ski Slalom Gold Medal...

If you look carefully, you'll notice she has a stack of 45s in her hand.  Check out this cool video of an identical RCA car unit playing a stack of 6 singles in a row.  A very interesting playing mech, too, as it plays the records upside down!

http://www.blueboyrecords.com/record-player/rca-automatic-45-rpm-car-record-player-model-ap-1-1961-desoto





Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Bill M on February 17, 2011, 02:15:29 PM
Very cool.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Pearlfisher David on February 17, 2011, 02:37:48 PM
I don't know about that.
(http://houseofcat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CarRecordPlayer.jpg)

God, imagine having to exchange 45s every 3 minutes during a 5 hr trip... more dangerous than using a non-handsfree cellphone... :police:
Not to mention having to watch out for those potholes and bumps in the road to avoid the needle jumping.
and do we have potholes in Bonnie Scotland right now...do we ever.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 02, 2013, 01:11:07 AM
Are the 1990 Caribou discs no-noised or anything? I know there are some mix/version errors on them (as pointed out earlier in the thread), but they're not no-noise and/or especially compromised? I'm looking to assemble the best sources I can for (a very exhaustive digital version of) their entire catalog (even if it requires buying multiple versions of albums, compilations etc.).

Also, was the '93 box no-noised? I feel like I've seen a lot of conflicting info/opinions on this.

Edit: I done looked at a few waveforms from the 1990 Caribou L.A. just to see how they looked (I know listening matters more than how a waveform looks, don't even start with me, I am in bad mood on tricycle with arms crossed and pouting face) and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" had some kinda compression near the end. There's some minor limiting on several tracks. I'm sure it sounds basically fine, worlds better than the 2000 two-fers, and I know it's just frigging "Here Comes The Night", but darn it, y u gotta do this to me in fucking 1990. It's just totally unnecessary. I was five years old in 1990 and you're already pulling this sh*t on me. I just get so mad sometimes I wanna break a beer bottle in three and mangle my scrotum with the sharp end of the part with the neck on it. I don't even drink beer, but I would pick up the habit if it meant I could do this in response to the 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" being compromised by digital limiting, Gosh Darn it. This is the same thing I keep getting from these Gosh Darn people. I just don't even want to bother with life anymore. I just. What the f***, man. What the f***. I can't even listen to 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" without it being compromised by digital limiting and then having to take up alcoholism in order to break a beer bottle and mangle my genitals with a broken beer bottle in response becausei jjfjjjq9af92.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on September 02, 2013, 02:54:20 AM
Are the 1990 Caribou discs no-noised or anything? I know there are some mix/version errors on them (as pointed out earlier in the thread), but they're not no-noise and/or especially compromised? I'm looking to assemble the best sources I can for (a very exhaustive digital version of) their entire catalog (even if it requires buying multiple versions of albums, compilations etc.).

Also, was the '93 box no-noised? I feel like I've seen a lot of conflicting info/opinions on this.

Edit: I done looked at a few waveforms from the 1990 Caribou L.A. just to see how they looked (I know listening matters more than how a waveform looks, don't even start with me, I am in bad mood on tricycle with arms crossed and pouting face) and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" had some kinda compression near the end. There's some minor limiting on several tracks. I'm sure it sounds basically fine, worlds better than the 2000 two-fers, and I know it's just frigging "Here Comes The Night", but darn it, y u gotta do this to me in fucking 1990. It's just totally unnecessary. I was five years old in 1990 and you're already pulling this sh*t on me. I just get so mad sometimes I wanna break a beer bottle in three and mangle my scrotum with the sharp end of the part with the neck on it. I don't even drink beer, but I would pick up the habit if it meant I could do this in response to the 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" being compromised by digital limiting, Gosh Darn it. This is the same thing I keep getting from these Gosh Darn people. I just don't even want to bother with life anymore. I just. What the f***, man. What the f***. I can't even listen to 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" without it being compromised by digital limiting and then having to take up alcoholism in order to break a beer bottle and mangle my genitals with a broken beer bottle in response becausei jjfjjjq9af92.

Hence Vinyl. BUT WE WANT IT DIGITALLY AS GOOD TOO :(


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Shane on September 02, 2013, 10:56:01 AM
Are the 1990 Caribou discs no-noised or anything? I know there are some mix/version errors on them (as pointed out earlier in the thread), but they're not no-noise and/or especially compromised? I'm looking to assemble the best sources I can for (a very exhaustive digital version of) their entire catalog (even if it requires buying multiple versions of albums, compilations etc.).

Also, was the '93 box no-noised? I feel like I've seen a lot of conflicting info/opinions on this.

Edit: I done looked at a few waveforms from the 1990 Caribou L.A. just to see how they looked (I know listening matters more than how a waveform looks, don't even start with me, I am in bad mood on tricycle with arms crossed and pouting face) and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" had some kinda compression near the end. There's some minor limiting on several tracks. I'm sure it sounds basically fine, worlds better than the 2000 two-fers, and I know it's just frigging "Here Comes The Night", but darn it, y u gotta do this to me in fucking 1990. It's just totally unnecessary. I was five years old in 1990 and you're already pulling this sh*t on me. I just get so mad sometimes I wanna break a beer bottle in three and mangle my scrotum with the sharp end of the part with the neck on it. I don't even drink beer, but I would pick up the habit if it meant I could do this in response to the 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" being compromised by digital limiting, Gosh Darn it. This is the same thing I keep getting from these Gosh Darn people. I just don't even want to bother with life anymore. I just. What the f***, man. What the f***. I can't even listen to 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" without it being compromised by digital limiting and then having to take up alcoholism in order to break a beer bottle and mangle my genitals with a broken beer bottle in response becausei jjfjjjq9af92.


I can't stop laughing at this.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: DonnyL on September 02, 2013, 02:46:07 PM
If you want legit flat transfers, get the 'PASTMASTERS' Japanese CDs from the late '80s, or the original Steve Hoffman Pet Sounds DCC fron '93 (the PASTMASTERS version of Pet Sounds is not a flat transfer).


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on September 02, 2013, 02:59:45 PM
Are the 1990 Caribou discs no-noised or anything? I know there are some mix/version errors on them (as pointed out earlier in the thread), but they're not no-noise and/or especially compromised? I'm looking to assemble the best sources I can for (a very exhaustive digital version of) their entire catalog (even if it requires buying multiple versions of albums, compilations etc.).

Also, was the '93 box no-noised? I feel like I've seen a lot of conflicting info/opinions on this.

Edit: I done looked at a few waveforms from the 1990 Caribou L.A. just to see how they looked (I know listening matters more than how a waveform looks, don't even start with me, I am in bad mood on tricycle with arms crossed and pouting face) and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" had some kinda compression near the end. There's some minor limiting on several tracks. I'm sure it sounds basically fine, worlds better than the 2000 two-fers, and I know it's just frigging "Here Comes The Night", but darn it, y u gotta do this to me in fucking 1990. It's just totally unnecessary. I was five years old in 1990 and you're already pulling this sh*t on me. I just get so mad sometimes I wanna break a beer bottle in three and mangle my scrotum with the sharp end of the part with the neck on it. I don't even drink beer, but I would pick up the habit if it meant I could do this in response to the 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" being compromised by digital limiting, Gosh Darn it. This is the same thing I keep getting from these Gosh Darn people. I just don't even want to bother with life anymore. I just. What the f***, man. What the f***. I can't even listen to 1990 Caribou disc of L.A. Light Album by The Beach Boys and the disco version of "Here Comes The Night" without it being compromised by digital limiting and then having to take up alcoholism in order to break a beer bottle and mangle my genitals with a broken beer bottle in response becausei jjfjjjq9af92.

Whoever applied the compression/limiting did it so you wouldn't have to listen to that version of Here Comes The Night. Just doing you a favor, maaaan.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: ThyRavenAscend on September 03, 2013, 07:39:54 AM
While we are talking abut the twofers, does anyone know why Today! has such a 'muddy' sound and is this the case with the original vinyl release?

Good question--I've always just assumed that Brian he was in the process of learning to do the wall-of-sound technique, but I have no idea if that's even historically accurate...is it?


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: 37!ws on September 03, 2013, 08:04:15 AM
1) I managed to get all the 1990 twofers before they were taken out of production in 1994. When they were reissued in 2001, I only bought the Today/SD(ASN!!) twofer just to see if the upgrade was necessary, or if I could deal with the sound on the originals. Verdict: CRAP. Total crap. The whole thing was just a distorted mess. I decided the 1990 ones were good enough. (Wow, did those two albums sound much better on the 2012 reissues, though!)

2) Regarding the previous question about the differences in the "wrong" and "right" "Winds of Change" -- here's actually a fairly comprehensive list of Caribou anomalies:

"Surf's Up" on the US Ten Years of Harmony CD has the tape bleedthrough on the left channel; on the Euro pressing of same, it's clean.

"Winds of Change" on Caribou MIU CD -- extra harmonies in the beginning, fewer vocals at the end.

"Peggy Sue" on Caribou MIU CD -- different effect on Al's vocal

"Come Go With Me" on Caribou MIU CD and Ten Years of Harmony -- intro is not a capella, extra "A" notes on the piano on the line "You never give me a chance," extra vocals during the last verse

"Honkin' Down The Highway" on both Love You and Ten Years of Harmony -- as mentioned before, drum intro missing. (Single version, right?)

"California" and "Rock and Roll Music" on US Ten Years of Harmony -- album versions used instead of single versions; Euro pressing is correct

And the oddest one of all:

"Endless Harmony" on the Caribou Keepin' The Summer Alive CD -- just a terrible mastering job; it was obvious that nobody actually LISTENED TO THE THING. Shaky speed issues throughout. I heard there was a corrected pressing, but I don't know if that's actually true.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: monicker on September 04, 2013, 05:13:17 PM
Thinking about all of this stresses me out. Being a Beach Boys fan stresses me out.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 04, 2013, 08:52:29 PM
"Come Go With Me" on Caribou MIU CD and Ten Years of Harmony -- intro is not a capella, extra "A" notes on the piano on the line "You never give me a chance," extra vocals during the last verse

"Endless Harmony" on the Caribou Keepin' The Summer Alive CD -- just a terrible mastering job; it was obvious that nobody actually LISTENED TO THE THING. Shaky speed issues throughout. I heard there was a corrected pressing, but I don't know if that's actually true.

Thanks for all this! I noticed that "Endless Harmony" sounded fuckawful, too, and being fairly unfamiliar with the song, could not remember if it sounded so poor on other releases. ARGH. Looks like these are, barring the alternate mixes, not outright ideal otherwise. I really hate to have to compile from various sources so much, but I guess it's what I'll have to do and tweak slightly if necessary.

Also worth nothing that the alternate "Come And Go With Me" is actually the version intended for 15 Big Ones.

Thinking about all of this stresses me out. Being a Beach Boys fan stresses me out.

Same. I don't care how subtle the mixing differences are, I'm a completist and I want it all Gosh damn it (and Jeesus is there a lot of it, much of which is very difficult to track down). :'(

Whoever applied the compression/limiting did it so you wouldn't have to listen to that version of Here Comes The Night. Just doing you a favor, maaaan.

Maybe :'( but mayn, I ain't even care. For completion's sake, it's like. sh*t.

If you want legit flat transfers, get the 'PASTMASTERS' Japanese CDs from the late '80s, or the original Steve Hoffman Pet Sounds DCC fron '93 (the PASTMASTERS version of Pet Sounds is not a flat transfer).

Thanks fer this, although don't they only exist for most of the 1960s albums? Just wanted to confirm.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: BiNNS on October 28, 2018, 01:24:35 PM
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but i need an answer to something.  I Just picked up the Party/Stack O Tracks and Smiley Smile/Wild Honey 1990 twofers. I am hearing pretty constant static noises running through both cd's? I know these cd's are no-noised, but is THAT the audio end result of that process? If so, yikes. Let me know if i just simply have faulty discs or if those are indeed how they truly sound. Thanks.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Fall Breaks on October 29, 2018, 04:32:20 AM
Had the same problem, some info in the replies to this topic:

https://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=7137.0


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: BiNNS on October 29, 2018, 04:53:27 AM
Thanks. They sound the same in every player I've tried and they sound horrendous when played through iTunes. So I'm to believe these are due to cd rot? Both were purchased from the same seller on Ebay. I'm awaiting more of the '90 twofers (from different sellers). If they are static free then it looks like I'll be picking up these two titles again.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: mustomax on October 29, 2018, 08:26:23 AM
I love the 2001 mixes, especially, "Carl And The Passion", and "MIU/Love you". I have a very good headphone, and the sound is excellent!


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: The Heartical Don on October 30, 2018, 03:09:41 AM
I love the 2001 mixes, especially, "Carl And The Passion", and "MIU/Love you". I have a very good headphone, and the sound is excellent!

Thank you -

since I got a new hifi set up (partly reshuffled old gear, new connection cables, new speakers, a new player), I guess I'll give these two a go this evening.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: Bicyclerider on October 30, 2018, 10:00:36 AM
I love the 2001 mixes, especially, "Carl And The Passion", and "MIU/Love you". I have a very good headphone, and the sound is excellent!

The mixes are the same as the 1990 twofers, it's the mastering that's different.

I've always preferred the 1990 CD's despite the noise reduction because the EQ is less harsh and the volume isn't maximized (less compression than on the 2001's).  But I hear if you listen to them with a processor that's HDCD capable, the 2001's sound better.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: 37!ws on November 05, 2018, 10:33:37 AM
In 2001 I didn't want to re-buy all the CDs again unless I knew for sure I'd be getting an upgrade. I bought the Today!/Summer Days... re-master, and...HATED IT. Distortion throughout. Ughghh. That was enough to convince me to not get the rest. So to this day, my main source for many of the Beach Boys' Capitol-era albums are the 1990 twofers.

The 2012 reissues, though....those sound phenomenal. There are some exceptions, though...the "s" is missing from the opening "Sto-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-oked!" on the mono mix, and some of the songs on the mono Today! play back slow and/or are not properly centered. But they really sound great otherwise.


Title: Re: CD Twofers Sound Quality 1990 vs. 2001
Post by: james666 on November 24, 2018, 04:45:50 PM
I've always preferred the 1990 CD's despite the noise reduction because the EQ is less harsh and the volume isn't maximized (less compression than on the 2001's).  But I hear if you listen to them with a processor that's HDCD capable, the 2001's sound better.

It turns out that, like many HDCDs, the 2001 Capitol twofers don't use the peak extension feature so there is absolutely no difference in the dynamic range when they are played back with HDCD decoding.  The 1997 Pet Sounds box does use HDCD peak extension and has a significantly wider dynamic range when properly decoded (at least when I look at the spectrum in Audacity - I must admit I struggle to hear the difference with computer speakers). 

HDCD was a strange beast.  If the peak extension feature is used, the playback will be inferior if the disc is not decoded with HDCD.   On the other hand, a normal CD has sufficient dynamic range that the disc would have sounded just as good on a normal CD player if had been mastered without compression in 16 bits.  It may be worth noting that HDCD can now be decoded in software (e..g with Windows Media Player or libhdcd on Linux).