The Smiley Smile Message Board

Let your voice be heard.

When I was a young JD, I was over at a friends' house.  I was about 5 years old.  I remember this kids' mother saying, 'there are three things that you should never talk about socially, money, politics, and religion'--I basically knew then and there that those were three of the things that you should talk about.  Why should some of the most significant subjects of our existance not be talked about?  That is absurd in my opinion, and I thought that when I was five.  Now of course, the issue of couth comes into play, and socially, I believe that one should always excersize couth.  Knowing when to back off, knowing when to fire up the proverbial Batmobile as well and drive a point--all good. 

Sex on the other hand, well, this is something that I think should really only be talked about with people you know who understand the terms of the discussion, because here on the internet, we're all anonymous, and there is no need to make it a pervasively smarmy environment.  Now a ball-bag joke here and there is a different story.  We all know that the male anatomy is just intrinsically humorous.

Totally agree.  As for sex -- if a thread is labeled as being about sex, and you are touchy on that subject, DO NOT GO INTO THE THREAD.  That goes for any thread.

This is not a PC Warehouse.

OK, if the thread says "Favorite Whoring Towns" I can see your point, but general smarminess and winkiness in all threads is irritating as a reader.  talk about eye-rolls, my eyes are rolling alot reading some of the unfunny uncreative smarm that passes as joking

I can understand that, and sometimes it probably does get excessive.  Some of that is just taste -- for example, the flurry of English-impaired people who decided to register here within the past three weeks or so were unbearable to me (not that I don't make plenty of my own mistakes while posting),  but I don't think we should have a grammar exam to register.  I like joking in any thread, but I can understand why other people are bothered by it.  I will say this: the less restrictions on the Sandbox, the less joking you'll see in straight threads.  The more I get people coming into stuff like the sex thread within the first few pages, being offended as if they couldn't guess the thread's topic, the more I'll end up looking/joking elsewhere.  I also thinking joking is an outlet for people here when they're straight threads are ignored.  I'm not saying people should post in a thread if they don't care, but I've done plenty of straight threads that absolutely bomb because people are more content to talk about the same Kinks song for the millionth time or whatever.  So if joking is the only contribution I can make, that's what will happen.  Some would argue that that is my sign to get out, though, haha.

My other complaint: Ian needs to be reinstated immediately.  This is fucking ludicrous.  I don't know what happened and I don't really care.

Censorship is counterproductive, my take.

Same here I have no clue what happened, but Ian should be unbanned.

first point, per my previous post, Milwaukee

second point, per spelling, check my user name tribute to the phenom

third point, I find your posts generally funny.  (Like that?  :))

fourth point, Ian, banned again, yawn...if Charles wants to ban somebody that his deal.  It's Charles' board!  I don't think it should be public, nor snuck in less than-elegantly like a cheap congressional rider on this poll (ouch--sorry about that CLP!).  We all know that everybody is different, nobody is perfect.  I may be more effusive than some posters, but have less to contribute.  Should I be banned for being a boring poster?

That's why I thought it was brilliant from the beginning.


Most certainly.

Totally agree here.  I cannot say that ANY of the above topics require my vote - i don't really agree with any of them on general principal.  But they are ALL topics/situations that can be taken too far very easily.  As you know, i don't believe in legislating what can and cannot be discussed; i do believe, however, in providing guidelines for those who might not know where to draw the line.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record here...but grownups need to act like grownups.  

As for banning and unbanning, admin makes that call.  It's not my place to agree or disagree.  I am not privy to all of the conversations they might have had, the things that might have been said.  The only time i want to comment on another admin's banning action is if i know ALL of the particulars...and in this case, i don't.

That's one thing that makes this a joke though.  We all know something happened because some of the discussion is public, even though the event and decisions are supposed to be private.  Sounds pretty stupid to me.  Make it public or private, but don't try to make it both.  It's rude to people who aren't involved and just want to have fun here.  It's probably not so nice for people who are involved either.

I made it part of this poll because of the complaints I get when I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to put someone in a timeout.  I'd rather not ban anyone, ever, for any length of time.  I do find it fascinating that when Ian has been banned, I don't recall anyone saying to me "Ian didn't do anything to deserve it," instead I'm told "Ian contributes, you shouldn't ban him." 

I can't tell you if he deserved it because that stuff is private, apparently.  From what I've been told, this started because of the blind jokes I made and then escalated to fights between you and Ian.

My Opinion, Charles, is that part of the poise of being an Admin is that these are your affairs.  It is understood that you want consensus, but I don't think that asking Socratic questions about your responsibilities and making ironic statements about your Ian-itis is effective in earning consensus. 

3 words: Freedom. Of. Speech.

Achieving consensus requires serious treatment of every group member's considered opinion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus

However, no matter how seriously I treat each person's opinion, I'm going to do what is best and what is right, to the best of my abilities. 

Freedom of speech?  Of course.  However, on a board I administrate, manage and pay for, in the end, I get the last word.  When people get offended, they are going to come to me, not Maybelline. 

Do I want as many people as possible to be satisfied with the board?  Of course.  But I'm not going to sacrifice more important things for quantity.

Yes I do realise that. And I appreciate that you can't 'please all the people all the time'. I've been  shocked and offended more than once by some of the comments- and visuals- on threads here.. but I've learnt not to take it all so seriously. If I don't like the look of a thread, I give it a miss. If I'm hurt by something someone has said, I lie low for a while (I did this last week).
When is Ian going to be allowed back, Charles?

Sometime tonight, I believe.

I'm just looking forward to getting back the essence of this board - FUN!  :)

Is the board not fun without Ian?

its like kicking Denny out of the Beach Boys.

Right- painful, but necessary.

and lets face it, the Board lately has gotten to the point of "Our Life, Our Land, Our Love" threads, when did Al become Alan, etc....that's all well and good, but BB land is in a bit of a lull after the onslaught of GIOMH, BWPS, and WIRWFC.

I should qualify, Denny '68.  Ian is a Denny '68.

but yeah, if you wanna have Billy Hinche sing "Good Timin'" go for it.

I'm a Bruce by the way.  Case anyone cares.

Well, the atmosphere is pretty gloomy at the moment!  :-\

his ass wouldn't be up yet anyway.

This is SO LAST SUMMER.

great song title.

(tune of "it's OK")

Ian's out/ It's no doubt/ it's that time again
this old board/ we're all bored

straight into group vox:

"This is SO LAST SUMMER"

Carl solo:

"So when can we fall again?"

Alright, so i like 2/3s of my fake song. Don't touch it. I might use it for real.

as long as Ian gets to sing the bass on "Find a Life"

go for it Becks, if you need some help, ol JD's got the skilz

Yeah, I'm thinking that "this is so last summer, when can we fall again?" is decent.

absolutely--you can get yourself into some nice Fastball/Gin Blossoms territory with that sort of deal.

Yo, Ian.

And I'm thinking, this is so last summer, can we fall in love again?

Haven't read the thread yet, but thought I'd let just say this: I cast the first vote a few hours ago...and I just noticed, the first item says "the sandbox should NOT exist". IIRC, I misread and voted "yes" to that...so...yeah, you can take that into consideration when looking at the results.

Why don't you remove your vote and vote again?

Yeah but I like the ambiguity of just "when can we FALL again"--- yes it means "fall in love" but I'm also hinting at the "summer/ fall" thing.

Dustin Hoffman watching Paul McCartney: "he's Doing it, he's Doing it!"

I like your thinking. Very poetic. You should be a songwriter  ;)

I'm extremely busy today, not to mention very sick.. so I don't have the energy to get into this very much.  All I want to say is that I would like to see Ian unbanned.  I didn't see him do anything wrong (maybe something happened in private that I don't know about). 
And I see I'm not a moderator of this forum anymore.. That's ok by me - I probably wasn't very effective as a moderator anyways. 

Carry on with your discussion.

Well I am, Maybelline. Outside of the rap stuff, me and the other guy have written a few decent songs. I posted a few links at the SS, and Ian liked one so much he said he plans on covering it.

All things good in moderation, Laurie

That avatar is beautiful, man.

I thought you said you had virtually no mod powers, that the moderation job was just a "tag", so to speak. What's the point of moderating when you can't moderate?

Get well soon! The place is boring without you.

vintage JD

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? You weren't consulted about that?  >:(
Sorry you're not well Laurie  :-\

Get better, Laurie.

welcome to the board, Maybe!

Eh?

we like to change things around right quick in these parts!

Yeah, Maybe. Welcome to the board.  :P

I think that Maybe thingy could stick.

Whaddya mean, 'welcome'? I've been here for 10 months! Literally!

Since Chuck- asked here's my take.
I'm here to have fun and at most expenses, I will have just that. I'm not here to insult or offend anyone intentionally, and if I do, don't take it personally, they're just words. If I'm that far out of line, I will appologize, and I will only do that if I'm WAY OUT OF LINE.
I think most content should be accepted here and not much taboo. Politics, religion, race, and sex are all part of life. If there's a thread that involves one that you might have strong negative feelings about- don't go there. It's as simple as that. Like george Carlin says (dated joke, now, but you get the point): "there are 2 dials on a television- one turns it on & off and the other changes the channel." If you don't like what's there, don't participate. You have other options. For the most part- we're all adults here. I can take insults, ribbing, barbs. I've heard 'em all. In my opinion- If you are offended it's not the fault of the person that wrote that, it's your fault for having an opinion that's that strong.
Everyone lighten up, eh. We're here to have fun, right?









I just farted.

*Alert* *Alert*

Your chain is being pulled, Maybe. :)

*End Alert*

I know, but you were suprised that Laurie had her status changed unknowingly, so that makes you a newbie!  Lickety-split

Maybe all your old posts have been deleted.  :P

Monkee Knutz, that was the best post on this subject I've seen so far.

Mr. Knutz is my hero. Boo-yah skeedaddy indeed.

Yeah, big-up the Knutz!

 :D :o ??? ::) :P :-*

In the last week, I did get the mod powers.. before that, I didn't have any.
Thanks... I hope to get well soon too. I really didn't want to come into work today but some big responsibilities to deal with.  Gotta run now... hope you guys work through this stuff ok.  

It's OK to get out there and have some fun, Laurie.  ;)

I know. I can't believe I typed that  :D :D :D

(in reference to the Knutz post)

Uhhhhhhh, Maybelline? You're being paged.

Wha... thank you. The fart was the best part- had to get that outta me!

That's the only part I read.

I thought the fart was the only thing that made sense.

you could read that fart in braille

God bless the internet. There's always someone who thinks he's a comedian.  ;)

Wasn't that how this mess got started?

Pretty much.

Shoulda been here, JD!! WHEW!!!

you killed yourself, huh?

 The Sandbox should not exist. - Of course it should exist. It provides relief from all the Beach Boys discussion.

Discussions about sexual, political or religious matters should not be allowed in the Sandbox. - But that stuff is interesting and insightful at times. Just because it may get a bit edgy doesn't mean it has no point.

People who otherwise contribute to the message board, but who have per the administrator have earned a ban of some length, should not be banned. - No matter who you are, if you deserve punishment you should get it. No certain status should hold one on a higher plain than others

The Sandbox should not have its own theme. - wut eva

Messages, no matter their content, should not be deleted from the Sandbox. - I disagree. Certain cases obviously go over the line, nobody will question such posts and they should be 'taken care of'.

Threads, no matter their content, should not be deleted from the Sandbox. - see above.

So you woulda kicked Denny out of the Beach Boys too, huh?  Another Bobby Figeura "Honkin Down the Cottin' Pickin' Highway"

Very insightful, H&V.

Jason, I'm being a bit thick today. Whaaddya mean?  :-\

I was joking. Of course it would be some really powerful voodoo if you actually did get paged.

I see conversation about sexual, political, or religious matters as quite different from actively mocking people with disabilities.  The former is legitimate discourse that has the potential to offend some if not done in a respectful way.  I see the latter as being akin to disparaging people based on race, color, nationality, or sexual orientation.  Obviously not everyone agrees with me, as certain people are still trying to be "cute" on this thread. 

Everyone can say what they want.  I will simply choose to ignore the assholes (which I'm sure is no great loss to them anyway.) 


Joel

PS: A sincere thank you to Ian, Jason, and Maybelline, who all understood what I was trying to say the other day, and took a lot of sh*t from the ignorant because of it.  Thanks again!

BTW, while I certainly don't try to make everyone happy (I think we can all agree on that), I believe when Ian is back, you'll find that those who desire his presence will be satisfied, while at the same time, Ian's pleadings concerning the fate of the Sandbox will also be answered.  I believe in the end it will be the closest thing to a win win situation for everyone concerned.

I got news for you, the ignorant are posting in this thread. Not to give out names, however. You should know who you are.

How would the ignorant, by definition, know who they are?

If they can lay claim to having a conscience and basic morals, then they would know.

NOICE!

Re. the subject of this thread - and sorry if this seems trite.. but I've never really liked the way that swear words are censored. Why is that the case? If they must, can't we have some recognisable words, such as 'sheep' - e.g. I am sheeping mad.
Thanks for listening.

I thought merda came from the French "merde", I think it is.

I'm open to any further suggestions concerning foul language.  I chose Portugese as a means of not posting the foul language in English, but at the same time not changing the meaning of the post. 

Personally, I find the gutter language to be completely unnecessary.  Just another roadblock to meaningful conversations.  And not something I care to see on a board I'm running.  Perhaps just [expletive deleted] would be preferable.

OK fair point. Has Chris also been banned now - because he is appearing as 'guest'?  :-\

It took me a while to realize that the board was automatically editing the swearing out of the posts.  It confused me, because I didn't know what "Merda" and "Foda" were supposed to mean.  I actually swear more now, knowing the board will clean it up for me.

Looks to me like Chris D. either de-registered or was banned. I'm guessing the former -- because Ian, while banned, shows up as "Ian" still.

Just to be clear - does that mean that the Sandbox is on its way out...?

 ::)

rinse your feet off

Well people are jumping ship (or should that be 'jumping box') which is really sad  :'(

Not to mention unnecessary.

Chris has gone, he deleted his account.  :( :(

I think it's interesting sociologically how boards that are set-up to be topical, in this case it's a Beach Boys board, but add "off topic" sections end up developing a culture of people that basically end up only posting on the off-topic board...or at least care about it more, and become quite rabid about defending the existence of the off-topic board.

I've experienced this on more than one website, concerning more than just the Beach Boys community too.

Personally, I don't care either way.  I don't read this board much, and can't really relate to the prevailing culture, so I would be fine if it went away.  I certainly don't need relief from Beach Boys discussion, as I feel like I don't get enough Beach Boys discussion.

I guess Chuck, you can decide if you want to have a hardcore Beach Boys board, or have the Beach Boys section as a companion to the non-smiley section...  I think that ultimately the Beach Boys area would get less traffic and even less discussion if the Sandbox went away.  Which would suck because then I'd have absolutely nothing to do.  While I love the idea of an intense Beach Boys board discussing only intricate hardcore details, I don't think such a thing can exist without the "milk-at-the-back-of-the-store" lure.

I've seen this too. People lose interest for the band and/or discussion of the band but become attatched to the other members and so do not leave.

People have made friends here. I know I have, and although I rarely post 'On Topic' (I don't posess even a smidgen of knowledge compared to the super-fans there) I feel part of the 'gang', whatever that means. It's fun, it's lighthearted - or should be. I love the fact that we all have one major thing in common (a love for BB/BW) and then come to discover that we have a whole lot more in common - through chatting here. Just recently the threads have been funnier than ever... looks like it's the end of an era, in a way. I've also seen this happen on other boards. A Teachers' Forum I post on recently had a HUGE row between posters, it got really nasty. People were banned, some went away and cooled off, then the vibe changed and new people came to the forefront.

I'd hate to lose the General Music Discussion board, and the Sandbox provides a place for a lot of really off-topic threads that would probably end up there. 

Do you think people should leave for this reason, H&V? I worry that I haven't really earned my stripes through not really contributing to 'On Topic', but I do love reading the threads there.

I don't think its the end of an era.  This is nothing compared to the whole Professor/board-splitting drama of last year.  I should take this opportunity to thank Charles for keeping this place going.

I'm confident that everything will be back to normal soon.  Although I wish Jerry would come back.  WE WANT THE 'BOX!!!!!!

No one should leave over this, but the damage has already been done.

Why do you care about "earning your stripes", Maybelline? No one will chastise you because you don't know as much as them. If they do, then they're assholes. Post more in the on-topic sections. Or even start your own threads with stuff we can all talk about. That's something you could do. Knowing it all doesn't mean sh*t in the long run.

I was commenting back to Josh's bit about people caring more for the Off Topic Discussion than the On Topic Stuff. The difference is that all the major people involved with this little boxing match this weekend were huge contributers to the On Topic and Off Topic.

Am I the only who finds this all to be a bit blown out of proportion?

That kind of thing just happens.  Offline too.  Your group of friends will shift at times, certain people won't be called to hang out as much, then they come back, or go off.  It's normal.  Or at least that's what happened back in the early 90's when I still had friends...

I actually just read an article in the paper about the fluxuations and ebbs and flows of friendship.  After the Prof. situation, a lot of people were very angry and people left and new people came to the smiley board, some went only to the new Smile Shop, and here we are now.  That's life.  That's what all the people say, you're riding high in april, shot down in may.

From my perspective, I don't think things were blown out of proportion, but then again, the thread was wiped before I could read all of it.

No.  See my comments above.  That said, I did have a little hissy fit/breakdown in the weezer thread on the musical board and thought about leaving the board for a few months.  For about five minutes.

Yeah you're right. I don't think this is half as bad (or creepy) as the Prof stuff from last year. But it is sad to see valued people leave.

I need to get my Portugese dictionary out or something for 'furos do burro' - for some reason that cracks me up  :D

Erm, Jason, I have started many threads in 'General' in the past...

Then keep starting them! You can be a part of the on-topic section. I would hate to see this become a segregated board.

I couldn't check any of the boxes.  

A few comments.

I think there is a place for the sandbox.  It adds spice and variety and an alternative to Beachboy and music discussion.

Sometimes people mess up and we ultimately forgive them if they show contrition.
My kids mess up and I don't permanently ban them.  I'd like to ban some of my coworkers and neighbors but I have to live with them.  

People should think twice, no three times, before going off on their cyber neighbors and friends and hurling insults and obscenities with no regard for how it impacts on the community.

Sometimes people can cross the line of bad taste and poor judgment repeatedly to the extent that it is not necessary to ban them.  They ostracize themselves.

A sort of natural selection sometimes takes place.

Well said, man. Besides, if this place was gone, how would you post all of those wonderful pictures?

Oooohh, me too! Imagine that!

No.

His choice-- I did not tell him to leave, or discuss his leaving at all with him or anyone else.  I'm sorry to see him go, too.

A little late now, but thanks, Chris. I never realized you could do that before.

:-[

Alright, well this is what I refer to as "balls." My two cronies are currently gone from this site.

And yes, I'm a Sandbox regular only these days. Though I have the knowledge, vinyl, books, and cds to prove my BBs/ BW worth, it doesn't matter too much to me. I love the BBs but don't talk about them 24/7? Is that cool with you guys? Seriously. I pop into what ever forum I need at the moment. And usually I need to be offtopic!

Donald, you put it very well: Sometimes natural selection takes place.

If Chris isn't comfortable or happy being here, then he *should* leave.  Anyone should for whom it doesn't feel right.  And we hope that in a few hours, or a few days, he changes his mind and comes back.  But if he wanted to leave, well...that's his choice.

Here's another thing i'll share from my experience: The kind of intelligent discussion that's happening here is the best thing that could be happening.  When this episode has died down and made its way to the back of our brains, the community will be better for it.  We learn about ourselves and each other in times of crisis, and while this doesn't compare to a real crisis, it has been unpleasant.

The good news is that it kind of feels like the top of the hill has been gotten to.  It's gotten as bad as it's gonna get [this time...for these things DO tend to happen occasionally], and the healing has begun. 

Just remember, kids, that if you pick at a scab you'll end up with a scar.

Thanks, mom.

I have no idea what was said or who was offended but like Susan said...this is a phase that we have always managed to survive...people come and go...that's life...its sad to see dedicated posters leave but somehow they might come back...I dunno...forgiveness can do wonders...but it takes time...

This sucks. Ian and Chris were my two favorite contributors to this site; they were the main reason I come here at all. Whatever differences I or anybody else might have had with Ian over some dumb thread (mine with him are resolved, by the way), he should not have been banned. His was the most vital voice here.

The ban is temporary.  Chris was not banned, he left by his own decision.  He and Ian are welcome back anytime.

Being a "most vital voice" does not make one immune from punishment when necessary.

Hatchi matchi!  :o

I must have missed something big, as usual.

Nor do I, nor does any sane person.There's such a thing as "having a life".

This all really messed up my bastard list...

It's amazing to me that you guys, being almost across the board older than the inhabitants of the car board I help moderate, manage to stir up exponentially more drama.

Just.. wow.

I was not involved in those events, and I don't have a clear understanding of what happened. But I'd like to make some general comments.

Sex, politics and religion should not be allowed on a music forum. I understand that there are have been intelligent and interesting discussions here, but the danger of misunderstanding and accidentally offending is just too big. I can tell you that there have been posts that I found very disturbing and even personally offensive, coming from posters who I deeply and honestly respect and whose knowledge and personality are admirable. In each of these cases I have looked away since I would't have anything constructive to say. But it made staying at this forum uncomfortable.

A forum needs moderators. Not one, but several. Not everyone has the gift of being a moderator. Think about the meaning of the word "to moderate". There are a few posters that I could imagine as great moderators, but it's not my call. The moderators are encouraged to censor offensive posts, and they can follow this with a personal message to the poster. This could clear any misunderstanding in the beginning. If a post of mine is deleted, I would feel frustrated, but if I got a message saying "sorry we had to delete your post because it could possibly offend", I would accept it.

Important: The actions of the moderators shoud never be discussed in public, only via personal message. This should be a forum rule.

The forum rules should be very specific and clear. There should be a standard procedure for breaking a forum rule: A warning, then a temporary ban, then a permanent ban that can be lifted if the banned agrees to comply with the rules. This sounds very strict and unfriendly, but it is the only way a forum can work in the long run.

A general chit-chat area is great and should be allowed, but the same forum rules should apply. Talk about love, relationships and drug experiences? Could be okay. But sex, politics and religion are just too sensitive.

These are just my thoughts, and I do not want to force anyone to agree with me.

um, Andreas, you are major moderator material!

That's kind of you!

Perhaps those are good points-- who wants to moderate, and who do you think would be a good moderator.  Not just for here, but other parts of the board.

Andreas, I have only one comment on that -- consider the Dylan Christian thread.  If religion is off limits, there is no way to discuss Christian Dylan, because it is impossible to separate those elements there.  I hope I have been effective in keeping it academic (i.e. this is what the Christian view says, and this is what Dylan is saying, without making it "you should agree"), but I can't talk one without the other.  If we were to dig into certain bands, politics would come up too, as the lyrics demand such discussions.  It sounds nice to say "no politics or religion" but you have to admit their presence at minimum in certain contexts.  It would be better IMO if one could keep it to statement of facts with no attempt to say "this is right and you should believe it".  That is what I strive for (and hope I have achieved), at any rate.

I haven't read that thread, and I am sure that you did not write anything that I would consider inappropriate. :)

Of course, to discuss the religion within Dylan's music and lyrics is an interesting topic and is suitable on a music forum. But the line would be to discuss religious topics out of the musical context. For example, if you say that one needs to be a Christian to understand the depth of Dylan's music, that would cross the line. Or if you say that you don't like Dylan's religious albums because you disagree with the catholic church in certain points, that would also cross the line. I hope that makes sense.

A similar thing applies to sex and politics. If these topics are part of the music, discuss it. But don't make a general discussion of it.

Yes, I think that we are saying in essence the same thing.

Brilliantly put. We're all music fans and that inevitably means that discussion of sex, religion and politics (all key themes in music) will arise at one time or another. And I agree, we should be able to share our views with tolerance for contrasting opinions. There is always risk that offensive comments will rear their ugly head(s) but isn't the risk worthwhile for some interesting and vibrant discussion?

Well, I don't think there's anything specifically Catholic about Dylan's religious albums.  

BTW  I really don't understand this obsession with everything having to be just so - this crosses the line, that crosses the line.  What kind of basis for discussion is that?  

Therein lies the crux: This requires good faith on both sides.  Good faith on the part of the poster that s/he will not intentionally be offensive, and good will on the part of the reader that s/he will not automaticallyt assume offensive intentions.  It also requires the offended to say to the offender, "What you posted offended me, because...."  It then requires the offender to apologize.

In my book, it is absolutely worth the risk that someon might be offended to have the conversations.  There's no one on this planet who isn't going to be offended at something at some point in his life; it's simply not possible to avoid it.  To think otherwise, and to legislate a message board in that vein, is so restrictive that i don't believe it should even be considered.

But this is Charles' board.  He can do whatever he wants with it.  And as a fellow owner and administrator, i'll support him, because ultimately, that's what owners get to do.  Whatever they want.

Tried that.  And then when the offender tells you not to be so sensitive or to get a sense of humor, then what?

I agree with Susan. Just because you're offended by something doesn't make it immediately foul play. Some people are offended by the colours on this part of the forum, but does that mean they should be banned? No.

I like the whole "good faith" thing. There's a difference between simply talking about something and intentionally being offensive and crude, and honestly, there's nothing on this board that I've ever found crude, besides maybe the Prof when he was here.

That's when a moderator steps in and says "this is not the way humans act". We have a courthouse on our board for people like that, where they get a few days that they can't post and think things over. Usually people come out with a lot more open minds and closed mouths, and if they don't we put them in longer.

Depending on what it is, the 'offender' could be right.

Depending is a good word, but the courthouse idea I expressed above is for those who intentionally stir the pot.

But you said in your previous post - just because you're offended by something doesn't make it immediately foul play.

I just replied to your previous post. :lol:

Forget I said anything.

Why?  What's up?  You're alright!   :)

I know - something funny happened there!   ???  :)

I wasn't intending to one-up or offend you, Laurie. I'm sorry if this is how it came across. I was just debating.  :-[

Ok its all cool.  I misunderstood.  I'm home sick today... very sick.. maybe its affecting my comprehension.

Damn, sorry to hear that. Feel better!

Just so I know what I'm apologising for, since we are discussing this here, how did I offend you again?

This is some sh*t.

Laurie, i'm sorry you're not feeling well - and you're right - that may be affecting your perception.  I know it does mine.  I'm a lot more certain that people are intentional assholes when i'm sick.

I think it's a mistake to assume that we're going to get satisfaction everytime we have a wrong that we want to have redressed.  But if you tell someone that they offended you, and you don't get the answer you want, i guess you just have to file it away and move on.  It isn't fair, but it's the way it goes sometimes.

That's for sure.

And Charles, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss the details in a public forum like this.  I've already told you privately, and you ridiculed me for that.  I'm not playing this game anymore.   

I agree-- that's why I thought it was strange you were bringing this up in public again.  PM and tell me exactly how I offended you.

By the way I never mentioned your name.  And the PM has been sent.

Don't worry Laurie! I still love ya  ;D

So the swearing filter has been removed then... and some nasty trolls seem to be lurking  ???

I'd sh*t myself if the filter was gone.

GP is NOT a nasty troll.  Despite his lack of avatar.

Charles, I wasn't talking about GP. I was talking about a number of people posting today appearing as 'guests'.

it was a JOKE.   ::)

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

It sure is becoming a lot harder to tell around here.

Thanks JD.

Why so glum, chum?

Perhaps I'm being paranoid. I dunno. I'm sad that people have left I suppose.  :-\

Chris left, who else?  And didn't Chris give a list of demands that have been met?

It is my opinion that there need to be rules on a forum. That's all I am saying. You make it sound as if I were demanding something. I see a lot of grief and frustration, and I was offering some advice.

BTW, Andreas, every one of your comments I agree with totally, and I think you would be a great choice for a moderator on this or any board.

I've seen other boards work very well with 3-5 moderaters per section. They each have the ability to hand out temporary bans, and have the tools to edit and "fix" anything they see fit.

If it works elsewhere i'm sure it can work here.