The Smiley Smile Message Board

Was it a joint decision by The Beach Boys, or was it Bruce Johnston, Jim Guercio, or Curt Boettcher?

Mine. In between two Columbo takes, I bumped into Bruce in the set in San Diego. I whispered something in his ear. He smiled. Music was never the same after that day.

Bruce.

Thanks, Andrew, I knew you'd have the answer.  :)

Curt Becher (interviewed in November 1979 for the February & May 1980 editions of the BBFUN newsletter):  "We got together a year ago October (1978), and Bruce Johnston asked if I'd like to do a side with the Beach Boys and I said 'Sure', and he said to come down to Western Studios and meet the guys, and play for them California's 'I Can Hear Music'.  We had done a disco verson of 'I Can Hear Music'.  So I went down and played it for them and we talked a little bit and they said they would like to do it, so we started it I think a week later.  They were working on the L.A. (Light Album)...any Beach Boys nut would be familiar with the original version of 'Here Comes The Night'.  It was always one of my favorites, undiscovered - it was kind of like a secret Beach Boys tune that was really hot that not many people knew about, and we tried so hard to be true to what Brian had originally laid down.  We went back to the original tapes and just listened to the vocals by themselves, you know, separate the vocals and just listen to just elements in the track, the original track, to capture as much of the real essence of the record as we possibly could, even though it would be disco.  It wasn't a cheap shot...We had some great vocal sessions on 'Here Comes The Night'...Before I heard 'Here Comes The Night', I thought, 'Well, I'm not even sure they could do something like that'...It's almost a marathon singing that record.  And I was really impressed that they were so together and so hot...Whether you like it or not or whatever you think about 'Here Comes The Night', there's some incredible singing going on in that record...Not very many groups would be able to sing that way..."(on the possibility of recording with them again):  "No, I don't think so.  I'm not working with the Beach Boys right now on their new album.  The most that could happen on the new LP is that I told Bruce if he needs me, that I would be more than happy to mix for him because I mixed about half of the 'L.A.' album.  What I did with 'Here Comes The Night' was what I wanted - to make the Beach Boys more progressive, do different things, and update the sound.  'Here Comes The Night' was the first attempt at that and it was not well received.  I would love to work the guys more but our musical tastes are different.  I would want to do something progressive and I don't think they would want to do that right now.  That doesn't mean we don't respect each other or we don't get along.  It means they know what I would want to do if I were involved with the production.  I want to move into the future, with my concept of the future, and obviously they don't agree with it.  I can understand their decision.  It's fine." 

The bit about offering to mix is interesting. In a biography of the band Sailor (which I have to say is one of the very worst written books I've ever read: the author had 100% access to all the band, which makes the amateurish presentation of the facts all the more lamentable), Georg Kajanus criticized the mix on the album Bruce & Curt co-produced (Checkpoint, 1977) as being too trebly: "Curt was a sweet enough guy, but he had major hearing problems, especially in the high frequencies, and we ended up with an album that sounded like it had a severe case of asthma".  I can only assume he was referring to the original mix as what was released sounds decent enough.

Thanks for that reply...I wondered about that particular song recently because I transferred much of my collection to mp3 and wondered about whether that 10+ minute length was a "marathon."  It is less well-known than the single hits and it was interesting to see them use that "foreign-to-fans" format and experiment wit h something different with their own music as a base, even if was not a hit. 

It puts the music in a different historical context, as they took the opportunity to try something different, and that is much to their credit.  People were experimenting with a lot of electronic music.  It is not unlike "diversifying your portfolio" in a financial context, and not putting all your eggs in one basket to experiment with your "sound."  The vocals are indeed impressive, and it does make for good treadmill music, you have to work to keep up with the beat.  Retro, funky and fun!

A marathon indeed - it took no less than 13 sessions to complete the instrumental track!  Vocally, though, it was reportedly one long marathon session, with Bruce, Carl and Al singing the backgrounds non-stop through the whole song (rather than just doing it in sections, which most people would've), then probably tripling it.  Mike was tacked on later.  Brian was meant to be, but apparently never was.   

One of the most tedious things in my archives is 90 minutes of the track for this song, from basic bass-drum-keyboard up to first couple of  layers of vocals (and btw, none of those first layers of vocals are The Beach Boys - Curt used California). Boring... boring... boring.

Brian was in hospital (Brotman, I think) at the time, and of course Dennis would have nothing to do with it.

Thats interesting because I always thought it was Brian singing the real high falsetto part on that song. It sure sounds like Brian.

It's sh*t and worse than that, it's too long

It's not merda. I am not a fan of disco, but the vocals (background and lead) are really fabulous. Some of the best that they ever laid to tape. This and possibly Chasin' The Sky are the last really great and intricate background vocals recorded by the Boys'.

I agree with you that it is pretty cool. But "fancy taste and judgment" is "personal" to that person.  It is fine to "disagree" but just don't be "disagreeable" or insulting.  It is different from the rest of the catalog which makes it cooler IMHO.   ;) 

And I could care less what is "cool or not cool" - I like what I like and that is that!  And, all you "elite fans" should worry less about the technical stuff and just rock out and enjoy the music. It is worth a good "informed" discussion but not a fight.  Life is too short!     8)

It's weird to see one of the major players in The Millennium refer to disco as "progressive".

Who's being disagreeable or insulting, me? If so, tell me what part of my post sounds that way.

Dear Dr. Beach Boy ~

Art, (or music) once finished is subject to the critics...but it is "done"...What one person finds ugly (like the Eiffel Tower) and was slated for demolition after the World's Fair at the turn of the century.  It is now considered quite beautiful and a work of art...it is all subjective taste or judgment...

Calling something "good or bad" - is a matter of personal opinion, which can change over time, and become accepted or even revered...not you mon cher!  ;)

Why is everyone allowed to post an opinion here, except me?  Why is Smilin Ed H allowed to call it "merda" and I am not allowed to call it "... not merda"? Both are our opinions. Are we not allowed to express our opinions when others express opposing opinions? I stated my opinion that it was not merda and why it is not merda.

I'm with you here. I found nothing objectionable about you expressing your opinion.
What I  find objectionable is filledeplage taking you and anyone else that wants to post an opinion to task;   Seems to me filledeplage is blaming others for starting fights, when the accuser is actually trying to light the fire.   

I love HCTN and I never get tired of saying so on this forum, and I really think peoples' objection to it is less about it being disco or being a fairly hamhanded attempt to jump on a then nearly passe cultural bandwagon (both of which are true), but that it just took up way too much space on the LIGHT ALBUM.  The track WAS progressive -- if you choose to look at it that way -- in the sense that the vocals and a lot of the instrumentation had an edge not heard on Beach Boys tracks in forever (though LOVE YOU had a different kind of progressivism going for it).  I think if they had just put the single edit on the album, which focused on Carl's smoking lead vocal and the sax solo, people would feel a lot different about it.  It was hearing that version on the radio in 1979 which helped erase my bias against the group as a goofy-ass retro band.

And yeah, the vocals are spectacular.

Re peoples' musical opinions, Frank Black said it best in "Freedom Rock":

All I listen to...it's all Freedom Rock.
Nobody owns
The pleasure of tones
...that belongs to the guy with no ears.

Another interesting question is who decided to put the 11 minute version of the song on the album, and why?

I can see a couple of possible reasons.  Judging from Bruce's comments at the time, he was proud of the work they had done and probably looked at it as a tour de force showpiece of the album, particularly as regard the vocals.  It may have been his way of hitting the reset button on the BBs' then-flagging career (which is sort of did, but not entirely in good ways) with a Big Statement.

The other possibility is that the band may not have felt they had enough good material on the album to fill the space.  A consensus is starting to emerge (that I totally agree with) is that LIGHT ALBUM is the best (or second best, depending on how you feel about LOVE YOU) of the band's late period albums, but regardless, it's still a grab bag that was thrown together without Brian's participation.  Having heard some of the early recordings Brian and Mike demo'ed, I can totally see why Bruce came in and why he took it in the direction he did.  Even the best song from that era, "California Feeling," when recorded was so plodding and lifeless that the band declined to release it (probably wisely).  "It's A Beautiful Day" came later, and "Santa Ana Winds" was still in its early (kinda bad) stages.  Most of the songs on LIGHT ALBUM are short ("Baby Blue" is well under 3 minutes, "Good Timin'" less than that) and both "Sumahama" and "Lady Lynda" are padded with long orchestral intros.  They may have just looked at the good stuff they had on hand, timed it out, and went, well, we better put the long HCTN on, because otherwise we don't have enough to fill up two sides.

Interesting to think about, anyway.

Nothing could be further from the truth...my only problem was anyone calling something "bad" which is completely different from "liking or disliking" something, in terms of taste.  Each to his own taste...and there are many posters who "hate" stuff that I don't mind at all. I was not taking  him to task at all.  

My personal take is it is that  it is not always "what is said" that gets posters into trouble, it is "how" it is said.  For example, someone said that Here Comes The Night was "bad" - not that they did not "like it" (which is fine, because that is personal taste, and not a "judgment" on the music itself.  I have no problem, with the "good" doctor...he is fine and I am not a moderator so I have no say.

It is not unlike that article somewhere on this board about some singer calling Dennis Wilson's "Only With You" - "really bad" and she was "dumping on" the work, which is different from saying that she didn't "like it."  Then, she used it for her own project.  
 
I don't "like" broccoli -  that does not mean it is "bad."   ;)        

I agree that the 45 edit of HCTN would have worked better on the album. Considering the quality of the tunes written for Bambu, I'm surprised that they just didn't ask Dennis for another song to fill out side 2 of L.A.

The recut isn't the worst song in the world. It certainly isn't the worst disco song. But, seriously, why did Bruce think it was a good idea to put an 11 minute disco suite in the middle of an album full of low-key, emotional ballads? What the f*** does he expect you to do, jump up from your seat and shake your hips for the next 11 minutes and then sit back down for more ballads?

Well, duh. No need to single out the good Dr. for that, when he had nothing but good intentions at heart.


As for the disco HCTN.....I don't know. I would kinda love to hear the quickly aborted live version the group put together.....

Interestingly, at the time Bruce stated that "when" the disco "HCTN" becomes a hit, he would talk Carl into putting THAT version (the 45 edit) on the NEXT album, the same way he talked Brian into putting the hit version of "Rhonda" on "Summer Days" back in '65!  Imagine the outcry now, if BBs fans had to contend with the disco HCTN not only on "LA Light", but also on "KTSA"!!!!!!!  :)

Great point, and I agree with you 100% about the merits of the seldom-mentioned "Chasin' The Sky", but I would say "Where I Belong" from a year later might be the "last really great and intricate background vocals recorded by the Boys"...unless we go all the way to '96 and count the version of "Caroline No" they did with Timothy B. Schmitt and Jimmy Webb!

"Where I Belong" is truly amazing...crystalline vocals by Carl...and I really do like Hear Comes the Night...especially "newly discovered"  in moving my music to mp3 format from CD's...I agree with you Doc!  Disco was best taken in small doses! 

I have to go back and re-listen to "Caroline No" on Stars & Stripes. I swear to God, I was so unimpressed with that CD that I don't think I've played it since it was released. Upon those listenings back then, I found nothing redeeming in the lead or background vocals. It was like they were all just going through the motions. I will have to rip "Caroline No" and re-evaluate it based on your post. Thanks!

I recoil in horror at the thought of what might have happened if HCTN would have been a monster hit...

Good God, Craig, are you serious?  Well, this goes a long way to answering my question, then, doesn't it!

"Chasin' The Sky" is cool.  It definitely has "outside writer" written all over it, but I've never minded the Beach Boys' forays into AOR rock, myself, so I think it's kinda cool.

They would've felt compelled to follow it up with an extended, disco-ized and slightly re-worded version of a more recent Brian classic from Love You: Roller Disco Child  ;D

I forgot to mention that another Bambu song WAS considered for L.A. Light..."Time For Bed", which was actually re-recorded (track only, no vocals as far as I know) in a session produced by Bruce and Jim Guercio at Cherokee.  That version has made the rounds on boots as the second of two titled "New Orleans".

Discoin' Bread!

" Life is too short! " And HCTN is too long.

What I find amazing is that for a song entitled "Here Comes The Night" (the remake, not the original) - in the first section about say a dozen measures in, beyond the percussion section (if my counting is correct); the way they "bring up the sound" reminds me more of "dawn" and sunrise, rather than "night coming." 

And, yes, mon cher,  for 11 minutes you can get at least a half mile in, bouncing on the treadmill...Or you can "shake it up, baby."

It is juxtaposed in relation to the ballads but so what! It is sort of neat, and at least it is not the Bee Gees who cornered that market!  ;) 

On vinyl, HCTN opens Side 2 so if you don't fancy 11 minutes of disco, just drop the needle down on the second track. It's a different story on CD.

You are correct...but in converting the CD's to MP3 for the sake of convenience and delicious portability, I sort of forget which songs belong with which LP, and for me it does not matter at this point...I do like HCTN because it is so "uncharacteristic" of their work style (and makes me sort of giggle when I hear it, for that reason)  and "Winds of Change" and "Where I Belong" just "fills my head" with that voice of Carl...

I do wonder, though,  if anyone knows whether Carl had a cold when he recorded "Goin' South" - he sounds a little congested and nasal...

Was Carl even on "Winds of Change?"

I remember my best buddy in grade school loved HCTN because he used to come over and play Stratego all the time.  it was his favorite song to game to.

Stratego is a great game... I think Carl sings on it...

I can imagine how terrible this song would've sounded in the context of 1979!! But for some reason I have decided that in the context of the music of the last ten years... somehow it almost sounds modern. The music sounds like it wouldn't be out of place on a Daft Punk album (who sample a lot of late 70s/early 80s disco synth funk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4)). Not that Daft Punk are my kind of music, but they are very popular and well respected in the 18-30 age bracket. In saying that, there are lots of cheesy parts that tear the song straight back to a bad disco track from a band joining the band wagon too late. The sax solo is lame and Carl's vocals immediately make it sound like a band of men approaching middle age. Sampling and remixing of old songs wasn't really happening in 1979... but this track woulda been so much better if they samples the original vocals and um... made it less crap.

I started this post thinking the song was actually better than most people think it is. I am listening to the track as I am writing this and I am changing my mind.

Whoah, I just hit 8mins30secs and it turned into a disco-polka... genre defying!!  :afro

interesting thought though...could we be headed for an HCTN remix?  There's so many layers of post-modern irony there I'm surprised no one's done it yet.

could be an interesting project for Pet Shop Boys.

Not at all. The BBs would've been invited to do the soundtracks for 'Love Boat' and 'Fantasy Island'. Great schmaltzy deesco stuff. Studio 54 would still exist. Disco would still be a viable musical genre.

Instead, we got the horrors of house, dance, trance, and the Love Parade (sic).

Besides Curt, do we know who was in California at the time? I'm guessing Joe Chemay (who plays bass on the track and is credited with co-arrangement, but is also a world-class vocalist) and Jon Joyce - those three, along with Bruce, sang on Dennis' POB the year before, and all but Becher sang on Pink Floyd's The Wall a year later.

I feel a strong need to hear this. Should I consult a doctor?  ;D

Here Comes the Night isn't that bad, if you want to hear a once great group try their hand at disco, check out this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDMnyTUkWbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDMnyTUkWbk)

Thanks. I think Im the only one who actually likes Disco music, and wishes I could go back in time to enjoy a night in Studio 54--the best nightclub of all time.

I dont think one hit song from the Boys wouldve saved it tho. Off the Wall was a successful album with a lot of disco influences and it didnt help. Im sure there were other later successes too.

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

It never even really died. Just dropped the label and became "dance music", and later a whole bunch of other genres like House, Club music, etc. Thats partly why its so infuriating hearing people say they hate disco nowadays and then they listen to stuff clearly influenced by it that wouldnt be out of place in Studio 54 or 2001 Space Odyssey.

As for the last big song under the disco name...a quick google search brings up Funkytown and Celebration as the big contenders. A lot of people list Off the Wall too. That was probably the last really big, popular disco album Id say.

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?

See why I put "disco" in quotation marks?  ;D I know it never truly died, but nobody really uses the label "disco" anymore with dance tracks. Now that I think about it, I'm not all that sure that Disco had a specific "formula". Lady Gaga would probably fit well in the 1970's Disco craze.

"The disco sound has soaring vocals over a steady "four-on-the-floor" beat, an eighth note (quaver) or 16th note (semi-quaver) hi-hat pattern with an open hi-hat on the off-beat, and a prominent, syncopated electric bass line. In most disco tracks, strings, horns, electric pianos, and electric guitars create a lush background sound. Orchestral instruments such as the flute are often used for solo melodies, and lead guitar is less frequently used in disco than in rock. Many disco songs use electronic synthesizers."

__________________________________________________________

"The music tended to layer soaring, often-reverberated vocals, which are often doubled by horns, over a background "pad" of electric pianos and "chicken-scratch" rhythm guitars. Other backing keyboard instruments include the piano, organ (during early years), string synth, and electroacoustic keyboards such as the Fender Rhodes piano, Wurlitzer electric piano, and Hohner Clavinet. Synthesizers are also fairly common in disco, especially in the late 1970s.

The rhythm is laid down by prominent, syncopated basslines (with heavy use of octaves) played on the bass guitar and by drummers using a drum kit, African/Latin percussion, and electronic drums such as Simmons and Roland drum modules. The sound is enriched with solo lines and harmony parts played by a variety of orchestral instruments, such as harp, violin, viola, cello, trumpet, saxophone, trombone, clarinet, flugelhorn, French horn, tuba, English horn, oboe, flute (sometimes especially the alto flute and occasionally bass flute), piccolo, timpani and synth strings or a full-blown string orchestra.

Most disco songs have a steady four-on-the-floor beat, a quaver or semi-quaver hi-hat pattern with an open hi-hat on the off-beat, and a heavy, syncopated bass line. Other Latin rhythms such as the rhumba, the samba and the cha-cha-cha are also found in disco recordings, and Latin polyrhythms, such as a rhumba beat layered over a merengue, are commonplace. The quaver pattern is often supported by other instruments such as the rhythm guitar and may be implied rather than explicitly present.

It often involves syncopation, rarely occurring on the beat unless a synthesizer is used to replace the bass guitar. In general, the difference between a disco, or any dance song, and a rock or popular song is that in dance music the bass hits four to the floor, at least once a beat (which in 4/4 time is 4 beats per measure), whereas in rock the bass hits on one and three and lets the snare take the lead on two and four. Disco is further characterized by a 16th note division of the quarter notes established by the bass as shown in the second drum pattern below, after a typical rock drum pattern.

The orchestral sound usually known as "disco sound" relies heavily on strings and horns playing linear phrases, in unison with the soaring, often reverberated vocals or playing instrumental fills, while electric pianos and chicken-scratch guitars create the background "pad" sound defining the harmony progression. Typically, a rich "wall of sound" results. There are, however, more minimalistic flavors of disco with reduced, transparent instrumentation, pioneered by Chic (band).

In 1977, Giorgio Moroder again became responsible for a development in disco. Alongside Donna Summer and Pete Bellotte he wrote the song "I Feel Love" for Summer to perform. It became the first well-known disco hit to have a completely synthesised backing track. The song is still considered to have been well ahead of its time. Other disco producers, most famously Tom Moulton, grabbed ideas and techniques from dub music (which came with the increased Jamaican migration to New York City in the seventies) to provide alternatives to the four on the floor style that dominated. Larry Levan utilized style keys from dub and jazz and more as one of the most successful remixers of all time to create early versions of house music that sparked the genre.[45]
Production

The "disco sound" was much more costly to produce than many of the other popular music genres from the 1970s. Unlike the simpler, four-piece band sound of the funk, soul of the late 1960s, or the small jazz organ trios, disco music often included a large pop band, with several chordal instruments (guitar, keyboards, synthesizer), several drum or percussion instruments (drumkit, Latin percussion, electronic drums), a horn section, a string orchestra, and a variety of "classical" solo instruments (for example, flute, piccolo, and so on).

Disco songs were arranged and composed by experienced arrangers and orchestrators, and producers added their creative touches to the overall sound. Recording complex arrangements with such a large number of instruments and sections required a team that included a conductor, copyists, record producers, and mixing engineers. Mixing engineers had an important role in the disco production process, because disco songs used as many as 64 tracks of vocals and instruments. Mixing engineers compiled these tracks into a fluid composition of verses, bridges, and refrains, complete with orchestral builds and breaks. Mixing engineers helped to develop the "disco sound" by creating a distinctive-sounding disco mix.

Early records were the "standard" 3 minute version until Tom Moulton came up with a way to make songs longer, wanting to take a crowd to another level that was impossible with 45-RPM vinyl discs of the time (which could usually hold no more than 5 minutes of good-quality music). With the help of José Rodriguez, his remasterer, he pressed a single on a 10" disc instead of 7". They cut the next single on a 12" disc, the same format as a standard album. This method fast became the standard format for all DJs of the genre.[46]

Because record sales were often dependent on floor play in clubs, DJs were also important to the development and popularization of disco music. Notable DJs include Rex Potts (Loft Lounge, Sarasota, Florida), Karen Cook, Jim Burgess, Walter Gibbons, John "Jellybean" Benitez, Richie Kaczar of Studio 54, Rick Gianatos, Francis Grasso of Sanctuary, Larry Levan, Ian Levine, Neil "Raz" Rasmussen & Mike Pace of L'amour Disco in Brooklyn, Preston Powell of Magique, Jennie Costa of Lemontrees, Tee Scott, Tony Smith of Xenon, John Luongo, Robert Ouimet of The Limelight, and David Mancuso."

^Wikipedia

It was Bruce according to Carl.  Here he is introducing every song on LA on a radio station:

https://soundcloud.com/user900749788/beach-boys-playback

As a producer, Curt Boettcher had few peers. He did a first rate job given what he was asked to do. Perhaps it was a mistake to put the near eleven minute  Here Comes the  Night  on  L.A. Light. That it was done at the end of the disco craze was Bruce's idea. I have been listening to the California cd, and it is a beautiful  cd.

I liked the song. A masterpiece compared to SIP.

Peter, I've misplaced that CD, please remind me - doesn't the basic "HCTN" disco riff and bvs first show up on "I Can Hear Music"... or another track on it ?

Andrew, It is a product of a UK reissue label. I forget the name, but I'll look for it and get back with you...

Despite a large amount of cheese the California Music record does have its moments, I love their rendition of Jamaica Farewell and it was interesting to hear Brand New Old Friends (which I think is a much better song than Happy Endings).

Interesting that you say this Mujan, because guess who basically said the same thing in an interview once?

Bruce Johnston!

And I agree with him (and you).

Wasn't it also Bruce's idea to re-re-record "Surfin'" into a Britney Spears-esque Pop song?  I remember him threatening us with one during some interview in the late 90's / early 00's.  I think the song even scored one lone play on some radio station.  Did anyone actually hear the damn thing?

I really don't think anti-gay sentiments had a lot to do with the hate directed at disco.  When anything becomes too popular, there's always a bit of a backlash. 

I know a lot of the anti-disco crowd were rock fans.  They were likely getting annoyed at the fact that disco was so popular that many rock bands were doing disco style songs (ie.  Kiss, Rod Stewart, The Rolling Stones, McCartney, The Beach Boys, Pink Floyd). 

Disco never died.  It just evolved.  House, trance, techno, electro, EDM, etc. 

And as a rock fan, I still can't stand it. 

That was definitely the main antagonism to it, but I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash. In the 70s, it was accepted that cops would raid and shut down gay bars/clubs for no real reason when they had nothing better to do, just because it was fun. Picking on gay people was not only tolerated but encouraged in a lot of places. Funny enough even in the movie Saturday Night Fever, which launched Disco to the mainstream, there's a scene where they harass a gay couple they see on the street. Its easy to forget now with acceptance at all time highs, but gay bashing was really prevalent. Not only that, but again, until late 77 and 78 Disco was very niche. It started in gay bars and later some black clubs before getting mainstream attention. Its not like black people were totally loved by all in society either--Civil Rights was just ten odd years prior, and its not like that act in itself suddenly made everything ok between black and white. I really think the excuse to hate on gay culture and black culture played a significant role in spurring on the attack of all things Disco. I think its fair to question how much that was a factor is fair, but to deny that it played a part entirely is incorrect and whitewashing history. And while Disco lived on, it definitely died in that the very name became taboo (and still is today) a lot of the artists associated with it lost their fame and careers, it was driven back underground, and its mostly thought of as this very weird embarassing trend by people nowadays, a reputation that I think is really unfair.

I won't deny that homophobia played a part, but I don't think it was the primary reason for the backlash.

Disco also died because of the limitations of the genre. 

I'm a big fan of the hard rock of the 1980s that's cynically referred to as "hair metal."  Much like disco, the formulas of the genre didn't really give the artists involved a lot of room to grow.  Even though I'm a fan of the music, I'll admit that it was very formulaic.  Then, you had your copycat groups.   When a genre can't grow, and is very much a product of its era, it's going to die off. 

Like disco, many established acts tried to conform to the "hair metal" formula.  Whitesnake, Judas Priest, and Kiss wrote songs very much in line with the "hair metal" formula. 

Like disco, many want to write off "hair metal" as a blight on the history of rock and roll.  Like disco, the songs still live on in music and movies, and many of the artists now do well on the nostalgia circuit. 

Like disco, there may have also been an element of homophobia as the glammed up bands on the strip in the 80s were often harassed by denim and leather wearing metalheads. 

So, basically, disco and "hair metal" ceased to be relevant mainly because, as genres, they're very limited. 

Let's move this thread on....


 So, what Beach Boys song do you think would be best to discofy?

I had heard in early 1979 there was some brief talk among band members back in the Spring of 1979 to possibly do a disco version of Roller Skating Child... issued possibly as an extended live single... but it never went anywhere. I am assuming, after the HCTN backlash, that plan went on hold... though it might have been the perfect choice.

Discofying any Beach Boy song was, is and always will be a risky proposal.  "Fying" of any order, opens the creative door to transparencies and clichés.  Playing a song live or collectively with a different edge or spirit -- is how you get to a different rendition.

For example, hearing the Beach Boys open with California Girls in the late 70s/early 80s with Dennis on the drums -- is a visceral experience.  The song rocks.  But a blatant concerted attempt to "rock-ify" the song would most likely fail and be overly transparent, filled with boring clichés.

Blatant sexuality or hedonistic displays of any order, typically do not withstand scrutiny -- be it intellectual or public patience.

Hmmm...  I would say that upper- and middle-class heterosexual white guys have been getting winks and boys-will-be-boys patience for hedonistic displays for many centuries.
(http://s8.postimg.org/r2r0140z9/55cf7e7d62125b7348b8092d5dc8c6c1.png)

(http://s27.postimg.org/bm0pmy4jn/original.jpg)
(http://s23.postimg.org/dj3hw1mgr/the_boston_red_soxs_locker_room_celebration_look.jpg)

...but do you feel it withstands scrutiny?

Depends on the actual activity and who's doing the scrutinizing. Obviously it has withstood the scrutiny of many people for many centuries. My scrutiny? If it's not harmful to others and if people aren't being pressured into it, I don't mind hedonism particularly.

Emily, you and I are engaged in hedonism by continuing to divert this topic.  Regardless of how politely we speak to each other.  It does not matter who is doing the scrutinizing, nor does your tolerance of hedonistic behavior.  Any blatant subversion of the established and expected norms will not survive intellectual scrutiny -- or public patience.

I know Studio 54 was infamous for its hedonism, but they were shut down for tax evasion not that. Disco itself was not overtly hedonistic. Its just dancing. And back in those days dancing meant actual dancing, not grinding aka dry humping like now. By your logic it should be the modern house music everyone rebels against, not disco

Since this is hypothetical, I'd like to de-discofy Runaway Dancer, from NPP. 

Bingo +1 KDS       perfect comment !

Genius.