The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm curious, is "Battle Hymn" the only circulating recording from the aborted 1974 Caribou album?

I thought that the 'big tits' version of "Ding Dang" might've been from there, but I wasn't sure.

Ummm... Unfinished versions of Good Timin' and River Song from those sessions also circulate. Andrew G. Doe's site gives a complete overview of the sessions, and pretty much ALL BBs sessions.

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is a Caribou recording, and the so-called "big tits" Ding Dang aka Rollin' Up To Heaven is from the same period, roughly, although I've heard a few whispers that Rollin' Up To Heaven might have been on tape as early as 1969 with more work done in 1974. Brian's voice disagrees with those whispers, but then again, the potential 1969 work could have just been instrumental sessions.

Good Timin' dates from around this period but was never finished - only the master take of the track and the track with a partial vocal circulates. It was the only work done on the track in 1974. If it was the basis of the final 1978 version during the LA period is debatable, the lead vocal sounds similar but the track was either heavily overdubbed or totally re-recorded.

Child Of Winter, of course, is the obvious answer, but is a bit more difficult to pinpoint due to sessions for it being held all throughout late 1974, and the Caribou period was a brief, unconcentrated stretch in October and November 1974. Apparently some work was done on it at Caribou.

I doubt that a potential archival release of Caribou sessions (or for that matter, any sessions) from 1974 would be of much interest to even the most truly hardcore of us lunatics, unless they love torturing themselves with repeated listens to The Battle Hymn of the Republic. Coming off the heels of Holland, what we've heard is barely progressive and mostly a sidestep. And it should be noted that while Brian was somewhat productive in 1974, those who have actually heard material in which he had an active hand, the results were either distressing, embarrassing, or brilliant.

Didn't know that one was debatable...to my ears, it's definitely the same track.  Overdubbed for sure, but definitely the same track.

It is the same track to my ears as well...but some other folks disagreed when I mentioned it. The drum sound is the dead giveaway. The keyboard was most likely turned down when the overdubs were done in '78.

Those other folks are wrong.  :)

This part of The Beach Boys history is very interesting to me. I think that 1973 was the last year where things really went right for the group. Some of the recordings made in 1974 were good, but I think Dennis Moore hit the nail on the head when he called the songs a "sidestep". Even the best song, Good Timin', is a pretty clear attempt by the group to get back to their "glory days" of surf and fun in the sun. The year 1974 was their last chance to still be a creatively progressive group, but they were slipping, and fast. By the time they finally released an album(15 Big Ones), it was clear that the damage had been done, and they were in trouble, with little to no option of a way out.

The only member of the band in 1974 who was really making strides as far as progression was concerned, was, of course, Dennis. Some stuff on POB and some of the Bambu tracks can lay claim to some work being done in 1974.

I can think of Rainbows offhand being tracked in an early version (aka String Bass Song). I believe Alan Boyd mentioned that parts of Are You Real are from a 1974 session titled "Life Symphony" (iffy on this, corrections needed). And of course, River Song was worked on a lot in 1974 even though the music itself wasn't new by any standard; listen to the 1971 track Ecology to hear the exact same piano melody, albeit in a different key.

Dennis' work on POB and some Bambu tracks exploded in 1975, as we all know.

Which songs do you mean as far as being distressing, embarrassing, or brilliant? I'm interested to hear which ones were really bad and which were really good.

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is brilliantly distressing and embarrassing, although that might have been Brian's intent all along - note how the rhythm is too much for Michael to keep up with vocally. Brian's piano/vocal track of California Dreamin' has been called brilliant (along with a few descriptive adjectives) by those who have heard it. The Kalinich co-writes Lucy Jones and You're Riding High On The Music, on the other hand, have been given mixed reactions - some have claimed they're good and some have claimed they're hideous.

Let's keep in mind that all of these tracks still exist on tape. I doubt any will ever come out legally at the rate things are going, unless that website gets up and running.

What are the chances of the California Feelin' demo, Lucy Jones, and You're Riding High On The Music ever being circulated among the fans?

I don't know about this whole "progression" argument as relating to Brian. I mean obviously his progression from Surfin to Smile obviously was something to behold, but I don't know if one could say his material from Smiley Smile to the end of '74 wasn't a "progression." I mean obviously on something like "Do It Again" he reverted to an older sound, but in the case of something like "Good Timin" I think that song was just a result of Brian writing a "Brian" song, without regard as to whether it was further out creatively than McCartney or whoever else he considered a peer. As far as the 15 Big Ones period and on, its harder to say, because I think there were certain parties that wanted him to write certain things in certain ways. But at least til the end of '74 I'd say he was following his muse. And I think if he would have still gotten help but not been forced into active duty with the Beach Boys, his material from '76 on might have still had that spark it had before (most of Love You, "Good Timin" and a few others aside).

And its a shame most of us don't get to hear "California Feeling" '74, "Lucy Jones," "You're Riding...", if only they would have came through with Beach Boys Central. Did we ever hear if its dead, or is there a chance we will ever see it?

Highly unlikely.

I think if he hadn't lost his voice the post 1974 stuff would be easier to take. I think Brian in 1974 was still making some creative music but maybe not as progressive as the stuff from say the 1970-72 period. Good Timin and (from what has been said) California Feeling seem to  be the last gasps of Brian in his prime.

It seems like everything he did started sounding like "oldies". I wonder when it was that he pretty much started listening to only 50s & 60s music...it's like he went Bryan Ferry in a way.

I agree with Billy up there, but it is fair to say "never say never".

Here's something I've often wondered...which tracks were destroyed in the Caribou fire? Or was that just a myth?

that BBCentral site is as up and running as Brian in 1983

Of anything, "California Feeling" really deserves to be heard. It's got a sort of "classic" feel to it like a lot of Brian's older material, but all the versions we have of it are kind of... eh, lacking in one way or another.

the MIU/LA era is missing Brian, as is the Rocky P/American Spring, yet Brian's new version is lacking the Beach Boys....im surprised he didnt save it for TLOS

I honestly don't find "Battle Hymn" to be that terrible.  I sort of have a list of my own 'Beach Boys greatest hits'...

* Battle Hymn Of The Republic
* Here Comes The Night (1979 version)
* Heroes and Villains (10 minute version)
* Feel Flows
* I Was Made To Love Her (long version from stereo "Wild Honey" boot)
* H.E.L.P. Is On The Way
* Loop De Loop
* Here She Comes
* Never Learn Not To Love
* Tones (the Carl song, not "Holidays")
* Come Go With Me
* I Just Got My Pay
* Rollin' Up To Heaven

How's that for one f'ed up compilation?! :-P  

That's what I was about to say. I remember reading and hearing about "Rollin' Up To Heaven" and The Beginning Of The End a few years before Get The Boot came out. But I think that the above "Caribou recordings" are being to closely guarded to be, um...."borrowed" long enough to be leaked.

DISCLAIMER: The above statement(s) are merely the musings of a fan. Nothing of the above statement was meant to be taken as anything that may or may not(read: wont) happen.

Guercio said recently (within the last couple of years) that NO tapes were destroyed in the fire. 

Ahhh..so yet ANOTHER BB myth busted!

Hi all!! As my first ever post I just wish to add to this topic by saying I really dig The Battle Hymm of the Republic!!!  I think as the song progresses it builds very well, with unique instrumentaion (banjo, piffe and cheesy 70's synth) and that Mike does a good job of singing it considering the ammont of lyrics he has to get his tongue around!!  Is there a different recording other than the Get The Boot version thats much worse or something? I only ask as EVERYBODY seems to hate this song but me!!

I don't hate it. It's odd as hell but I can't say it's bad really. I would rather a strange 1974 cut then a serious 1984 one any day.

it's still got that BW quirky-ness to it, throw in a shortenin bread riff and i'll love it even more

I've never hated it, either.  I think it's rather endearing.

i love the banjo work in the BB early 70's work: You Need a Mess of Help, HELP is on the Way, Battle Hymn, etc.

While we are on this Caribou album 1974 thread, I figured I'd throw this question out there. What was California Feeling intended to be written for? The Beach Boys? Kalinich? American Spring? I just wonder why after writing a song that has gotten rave reviews for that demo performance, why he tucked it away, and didn't issue a version until 02.

I've heard it muttered quietly that "BHOTR" was Brian having no little fun at the expense of one Michael Edward Love.  ::)

And even if not, it's got the worst banjo solo in the history of recorded music.

Cool to see BHOTR has it supporters after all!!  I also love Rollin up to Heaven.  The first time I heard that song I laughed till I bust!!  With that title I was expecting a ballad, then WHOA!!! Al sounds like he's having the time of his life shrieking those lyrics!  I know it has been posted elsewhere B4 but the group seemed to have a rather good follow up to Holland pretty much in the bag by late '74.

What songs are you listening to and what are you smoking and may I have some? :)

I don't suppose anybody knows exactly what is being sung throughout that song? We all know the main rude lyric but can anybody tell me what Denny and Carl are singing for instance?  Den sounds like "...something... something..  she's a humpin' and a pumping" and I can pick out "holy halleueagh?!!?" from Carl. Any info/guesses would be most welcome.  

Ha ha!!  I don't smoke weed anymore(havn't for years and am now anti drugs) but I wish to hell I had been into the Beach Boys back in the days when I did!!

This thread kind of shows that The Beach Boys really didn't have enough quality material for a Caribou album. "Child Of Winter" wouldn't have been on; I think Dennis would've kept his songs for his upcoming solo album, and, even with the bicentennial approaching, "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic" might've gotten cut, too. A Caribou album looks like another Beach Boys' that would've been rejected by the record company, just like the previous three or four. Only this time, I don't know which "hidden gems" could've been added to it.

He may have been talking guff but I do remember reading a Mike interview from very early '75 somewhere where he says they  have a new album in the can and will be putting it out within a month or so.  Titles he quoted were "Everyones in Love with You, Glow Crescent Glow, 10,000 Years and California Feelin' plus one or two more that I can't remember.  Also bear in mind Dennis had both River Song and Rainbows semi complete, which were intended originally for the group.  Add to that whatever Carl and Al had laying around plus the odd choice leftover in the vaults and who knows?  Maybe a decent follow up to Holland was within reach?  Has anybody else ever read the Mike interview i am referring to and do they know where it was from?

In my opinion, an album with "Everyones in Love With You" "California Feelin" "River Song" "Rainbow" "Good Timin" and "It's OK" would have been a pretty hot album.

"Ding Dang" might as well be Brian's autobiography for 73-75.

"Rolling Up To Heaven" also known as "Hard Time" or "Dirty Ding Dang" is great. It sounds like one of the last times they were really having fun together and Brian's arrangment is actually pretty intricate. I think I hear Mike saying "Rubbing In The Tub" I think I heard Al say "Worried about her parents" Brian of course (in one of his last clear vocal turns) keeps singing "Hard Time". I don't get tired of that one because there is so much in it. Ok it's no "Marcella" or "Sail On Sailor" but I like it better then most of the post 1976 songs just because of how much deranged fun it is.

speakin of Rollin' up to Heaven, I was just giving Ding Dang a listen, and I'm surprised Brian didn't use the Rollin' cut and then add his own vocals from that era with it...same thing goes with other things that were recorded in the early 70s but released when his gruff voice was current like Good Time, When Girls Get Together, etc.

If I were one of the Beach Boys I would have been trying to cover up Brian's new voice by suggesting old tracks only when they wanted a Brian lead. I see your point though.

Another poster mentioned the banjo that was featured on several BB's cuts in the early '70s.  Does anyone know if the BB's played banjo, or was a studio musician always utilized?  You Need A Mess of Help is one example that comes to mind.

I've been told Ricky could play almost anything. Brian could get sounds out of most things too. I would guess that if anyone in the group was the banjo player it would of been one of them.

The banjo played on "California Saga: California" was also used on "California Energy Blues", where it was played by one Alan Charles Jardine. In the only known photo of The Islanders (1960), there's a banjo, so I'm guessing Alan's been playing one for some time.

It's absolutely hypnotic because, like you said, it IS so intricate. There's a lot going on there, and yes, it sounds like they were having a hell of a lot of fun recording it. I never really get tired of it.