The Smiley Smile Message Board

Does anybody know much about him? I read the thread from Pet Sounds blog or whatever. Very interesting person and I really want to know more about him.

Check out either the Gaines or Carlin books. Interesting chap.

I have both books. I was more or less wondering what he has been doing since 1972. There is a very small entry on Wikipedia.

From Wikipedia:

"Although there are many books and articles about the Beach Boys, Rieley was only ever interviewed once before November 2007 (in a summer 1982 issue of the UK fanzine Beach Boys Stomp, by Andrew G. Doe) when he was interviewed by Flasher.com in relation to the documentary Dennis Wilson Forever."

You can find posts by Rieley on this board from, I believe, a predecessor of this board. Quite a bit of info from him. Try a search.

Do you mean this Luther?

http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one
http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_two

Yep.

I really should post that here.

I have already read those. Very interesting.

Would love to see Andrew's interview!

Sorry about the topic name. It should be Jack Rieley.

When you read about Jack Rieley in books, he doesn't come across very well, and he was, in fact, fired after only a couple of years with the group. However, when I look at the list of songs he contributed to:

Long Promised Road
Feel Flows
A Day In The Life Of A Tree
You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone
Marcella
Sail On Sailor
Funky Pretty
Mount Vernon And Fairway

well, I like every one of those very much. I guess his contribution to those songs was less than more(?), but, he did seem to have a knack of being around good songs.

He was also around during what was undoubtedly a live resurgence. To his credit? I don't know. But it happened while he was there.

I wish he was a member of this board. It would be fascinating to chat with him!

There is a Jack Rieley (with THAT spelling) on Facebook; give it a shot!

Now awaiting a friend confirmation. The profile is of course private. Could be interesting.

By the way, for any of you who are on Facebook I am Eric Lapp is Shreveport, LA. Add me.

I guess he was always economical with the truth and I read those old posts with that in mind.

Indeed don't take his word as gospel!

Here, here!

There was a documentary about the Holland album on Dutch TV last year and Rieley was interviewed for that.

He and Carl seemed to make a good songwriting team.

I suspect Jack Reiley is one of those people that reminds us that people are complicated and not easily broken down to black/white, good/evil.  I find it really easy to believe he was a bit of a con artist, but also that he was the guy that understood how to make the Beach Boys relevant to early '70s audiences, and that is really quite amazing.

I have to say that since the early '70s, Reiley-influenced Beach Boys were what hooked me on to the group, I might never have become a fan were it not for his direction of the band.

Yeah, Jack actually made me think that the Beach Boys could finally be considered "cool" by the masses...

Very possibly. Ironically though his views of the BB members appear to be that simplistic.

He does seem to certainly get rather slagged off, with Al being less than pleasant about him in a recent interview. But I don't really care about what he was like as a person, I care about what he did for the band, and personally I think the guy did good. Namely:
He co-wrote probably the best three songs Carl ever produced: Trader, Feel Flows, Long Promised Road;
His lyrics were always weird, cryptic, unusual i.e. interesting (especially on, say, Funky Pretty);
He got the band, even if only temporarily, to perform more musically diverse live shows, instead of relying mainly on their early back catalogue - as a result the period when he was their manager is generally considered their finest period as a live band;
He told the band he'd make them fashionable again - and then did, with Surf's up entering the Top 30 (their previous album Sunflower remember didn't even make the Top 150);
He introduced Rickey and Blondie to the group - again it was only temporary, but listen to 'Wonderbill' to hear how much they contributed to the band's incredible live sound. Plus they gave us some great vocals on record, along with Leaving this town.

So yeah, I rate him, me.

Those '96 posts from Reiley were if nothing else, vividly detailed. Thanks for sharing. The part about Brian's weirdness around his daughters was rather frightening though. For those who have warned about Reiley's liberties with the truth, those are the parts I want to believe are made up or exaggerated. The Brian digging his own grave thing also doesn't quite make sense. Why would Marilyn be laughing so quickly about a joke like that played on her (if it was a joke)?

Jack's posts certainly paint his vision of the infighting perfectly. I still think that the Beatles were just as bad in this regard though, and that their "unity" had little to do with their continued success into the late '60s vs. vs. the Beach Boys, as Jack contends. From what I've read, it was Epstein who kept the message consistent, and when he died, the infighting eventually broke them apart. In fact, had they been more unified, I think they would probably be less revered, and more like the Rolling Stones, having stayed together too long to be legendary.

"He introduced Rickey and Blondie to the group - again it was only temporary, but listen to 'Wonderbill' to hear how much they contributed to the band's incredible live sound."

I thought that was Carl and Al.

I like Jack because I like what happened on his watch.  There was a successful evolution to more mature themes,  there were great records, there was improved audience popularity, and there was a great live band.  I should add that I love "A Day in the Life of A Tree"!    

One of my favorite lyrical contributions of his has to be "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone". Not cryptic at all and I've always felt it was probably meant to describe the then-current situation of the song's composer. True or not, it certainly is a Beach Boy lyric I can quite easily relate to.

If he was there, he's not there any more as far as I can tell. Maybe he got wind of this posting and took himself off. ???

They did an internet link to Jack Rieley at last year's UK Stomp and he talked for some time, answering questions and sharing various anecdotes. He told us of how he and Carl had repaired old SMiLE tapes and of how he had written the lyrics to Song for Children for Surf's Up.  Jack said he liked BWPS but that he had such affection for the original material. He would have liked to see the release of this at the time but said he had enough trouble getting them to do Surf's Up.

Someone asked Jack if he felt that he had been airbrushed out of the history books and he replied that he really didn't know because he didn't read them. My sister told Jack that she felt that without his input the group might not have survived and this got general applause and Jack seemed genuinely pleased.

I found Jack extremely interesting to listen to . He obviously had strong opinions about some members of the group - fairly or not I can't really tell. He did say that he might be able to come over some time but perhaps just being polite. He certainly seemed like a person with whom it would be possible to have a meaningful discussion and quite a 'simpatico' sort of guy who took the trouble to be polite to those who were questioning him.

Sounds fascinating! You wouldn't happen to have a transcription of this by any chance, would you?

Afraid I don't have a transcript. I'd be happy to share what I can remember if you email me (ang.liz@virgin.net).

>> The Beach Boys has been a bitter power struggle since shortly after the beginning. Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson represented the creative side: the appeal to musical beauty and romance and funk and get-down and freakz/fanz; Love, Jardine and Johnston represented unbridled commercialism and power. Before I got there, Love, Jardine and Johnston had control. Because Brian or Dennis often didn't bother to show up for meetings, the vote was general 2-3 against them.

When I arrived and changed the group's direction, it signaled a change in the power-center as well. With the backing of Brian, Dennis and Carl, I fired Johnston, who had stymied the group's creative cohesiveness. At the same time I encouraged the Wilsons to act as a unit. Votes shifted to 3-2.

taken from

http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one

priceless...

Reiley on "Surf's Up" at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/surfsup.shtml

and

http://www.mywire.com/a/PRNewswire/Jack-Rieley-Breaks-Silence-Beach/4862655/?extID=10051

I find Jack's insistence that Brian claimed it was the failure of "Heroes and Villains" to wow people that caused him to withdraw musically. After all, the Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and the shows in Hawaii (for which Brian devised a whole new minimalist sound for the band) show the Brian was still interested in making music. He had just given up on making hits. He did what was fun. Making huge productions wasn't fun for him any longer, even if making songs was still fun. The story seems to be, according to Jack, that the when the initial mix of "H&V" failed to impress the execs at Capitol (although some, like Hal Blaine, Carl and Dennis claim that it was great, a worthy successor to "Good Vibrations") and some of the band, Brian went into a tailspin. He thought he had another masterpiece and couldn't believe it when a lot of people in his immediate circle weren't wowed by it.

Then, in desperation, he spends a bunch of time working on songs that were already done. Maybe, somehow, he can squeeze out that masterpiece people didn't see "H&V" as. It doesn't work, as songs like "Wonderful" seemed to get worse as Brian works on it more, causing Brian to throw his arms up in the air in despair and give up.
 
Then, a few weeks later, he goes on a quest to find the holy grail, a chorus for the song "H&V". I'm sure people like Mike and many of the execs at Capitol complained that the original "H&V" didn't have a hook (which we can guess was similar to the cantina mix in many ways), and felt that hit songs needed a catchy hook. That's what motivated Brian to do it. He finds it by using the "Bicycle Rider" theme, and excitedly, consults his astrologist on when to release it. He releases the 45 mix and sales are disappointing. Even with a chorus, the public didn't fall in love with "H&V" (of course, many fans think that "H&V" could have been a bigger hit with different mixes, as this one was kind of minimized, too thought out - but for whatever reason, Brian didn't feel that way). Brian was crushed by this also, according to Jack.

Really, this story, which builds off of what Jack claims Brian told him multiple times, seems to make a lot of sense. I think a lot of the other reasons that popped up in subsequent decades for SMiLE falling apart were examples of people mythologizing the events after the fact.

I have never particularly cared for Jack's lyrics, except for Long Promised Road and Day In the Life of A Tree. I think they tend to take away from the songs they are on. I have heard concerts where Carl apologizes for terrible lyrics in Feel Flows. I think he deserves some credit for the turn around of the live band and the Surf's Up relevance.  The quote above is just ridiculous and certainly makes it hard to take him seriously at all.  Ya Bruce was the reason that Smile failed and they cancelled at Monterrery Pop.

Jack and Bruce really didn't like each other did they? They have both had nothing but bad things to say about each other.

Indeed but I would tend to believe Bruce more. Rieley has said that Bruce treated all of the Wilson brothers with disdain which doesn't make that much sense to me as Bruce was later invited to appear on Love You and POB and then it was Brian who asked Bruce to rejoin the band.

It's a tricky area.  Neither Mike nor Dennis were particularly diplomatic about Bruce when he left, but, of course, he still made the odd live show and did come back on and off until he rejoined. On top of that, Bruce's best song was recorded during the Rieley period and he certainly got a lot out of Carl, Al and Mike, whatever the personal disdain.

JR also added Daryl D. and Toni T. and they fit in very well. I can remember people asking each other "who is the lady" as the concert started at Pine Knob in September 1972. The stage was VERY populated at that show. Even Jack was running around right before the music started. The energy was high level pre-show versus others I saw in the early 70's.

True, but it's something I can't see having happened without Reiley as manager and his attempts to get the band back in fashion. It's hard to see Rickey and Blondie joining the group during, say, the Sunflower period.

Anybody heard 'Western Justice' by Jack Rieley and Machiel Botman (a Dutchman)? I heard Carl contributed, but this may be wrong. Rare LP, don't know whether it surfaced as a CD. Concept album on the decline of the West and nature in general. Ahead of its time, prolly.

www.western-justice.com

CD might be out of print, but should still be available in some CD-stores. And well worth getting btw. I play it regularly. No Carl involvement as far as I know.