The Smiley Smile Message Board

For some reason I have been looking at pictures of the BBs on stage in 1967.  I was surprised to see how long they stuck with the old candy stripped shirts, despite the fact that off stage for photo shoots they were all decked out in the mod fashion of the day.  There is this huge disconnect between their music and photoshoots and their on stage appearance, both visually and in the set that they played.  I thought after Monterey happened they might have ditched the stripped shirts, but I see this picture here of the August Hawaii show and there they all are on stage with their early 60's throw back look (the shots of the sound check look a lot cooler, with most of them in their regular clothes).  To me the candy stripped shirts are kind of symbolic of the band's whole situation around that time, having internal struggles with how to react to the changing times and tastes.  Not that this all matters much to me, but I think it must have mattered at the time, knowing how visually oriented pop music was (and still is).

It surprises me that with BW being so sensitive in 1966 about the group's sound and image that he wouldn't have tried to do away with the old stage costume.  They came under a lot of criticism in Britain during their fall '66 tour and their mid '67 tour, both for not sounding good live and looking old fashioned.  I guess they were really set on not changing their stage image with the times.  All I can figure it that BW was ok with their image, contrary to what I think he might have thought.  That, or the touring band just wouldn't change (which could easily be the case).

When did they finally ditch the stripped shirts costume?  I am guessing in '68, from the pictures I have seen.  I'd love to learn a little more on this topic.

Certainly by the 1969 UK tour they were wearing the probably-just-as-bad white suits... though come to think of it, they were wearing those on the Ed Sullivan Show 10/13/68.

Then came their early '70s "hippie-cowboy" getup!

You are looking at the end of the striped shirt phase in late '67...over two years too late if you ask me. Remember the Beatles were still wearing matching suits when they did their last tour in Aug. '66, but like the BB's they wore the latest mod fashions off stage. The Stones were ahead of the game by ditching matching stage outfits in '63! From what i know i'd say the BB's switched to the white suits starting at the outset of '68, they definitely had them during the Maharishi tour. They finally went to non-matching gear sometime in '69.

However, The Beatles matching suits were alot hipper than candy striped shirts, IMO....

Saw them in Johnstown, Pa. with the striped shirts, white Levis, tennis shoes-believe it was 1967. After that, the stripes were history.

April 16th.  :)

Am I weird to say I kind of dug the shirts as corny as they were? I got plenty of them in my closet haha.

BBs wore the striped shirts as late as Oct 8 1967 in Chicago.  The next photo I have is from the February 1968 Pacific NW shows and they had switched to the white suits.  If I had to guess-i bet they had them made for their app on the UNICEF show from Paris in Dec 1967.  

Uniformity works, looks a lot cooler. Both the Beatles and the Beach Boys arguably had their most succesful periods when in uniform...

I agree. These days you can't tell who's in a band and who's in the audience with everybody looking about the same. But then that's been happening since Woodstock. The striped shirts and white pants are iconic, the white suits are terrible, but at least they tried.

I loved the white suits. I also like their matching New Year's Eve 1974 outfits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxJbymqdMSg

Uh...am I the only one here who remembers that PIN-STRIPED shirts were ubuquitous and widely accepted as cool or the norm in the mid sixties.....these weren't costumes.........but more like uniform dress of the time,  just as the pendleton shirts had been a couple of years earlier.  These were not so nearly ridiculous as what those silly british guys showed up in and what other american bands were sporting as costumes that could be worn for halloween..

Those pants and shirts were way cool all over the USA.

lookin at the footage shot in Hawaii in 67, i'd say they still looked hip

On the Vocal Elements discs, which from memory feature soundboards of concerts from November/December 1967, Bruce comes out with a classic... He clearly says into the mic,

"Our stripes got arrested!"  :lol


So I understand by that time they were history. On the same disc I think I vaguely remember Mike commenting on their 'new stage outfits'... Without listening again, I could be wrong on that, but either way, Bruce's comment is definately there!

On one of the late '67 shows released on bootleg, someone (Mike?) mentions that the striped shirts have gone IIRC.


While we're at it. What were these shirts about?

(http://www.cinetropic.com/blacktop/people/cover2.jpg)

That picture was taken in 1965 obviously though I never could get the exact date. It may be a rehearsal shot as I have pics from 1965 shows with Brian in the stripes. He also swept back his hair in those shots. One was from the Hollywood Bowl show and a few were pre Bruce post Houston.

in terms of uniforms.  In 1962 BBs usually wore the red plaid pendleton shirt -as seen on singles covers, photos, etc. In 1963 they began to wear a v neck sweater with a tie underneath-as seen in many shots- or a dress shirt and slacks. By 1964 they had switched to wearing the striped shirts or the yellow shirts (as seen in that photo and mentioned in many reviews-including Davenport July 14 1964).  They had both red and white striped shirts and blue and white.  In early 65 they still sometimes wore the yellow shirt (mentioned in reviews-such as Buffalo Feb 22) but by late 65 pretty much always the striped shirts.  Same in 66 and 67. I have been looking for proof of when they switched to all white. I have photos of them in Aug 1967 and October 1967 so I knew it was after the Oct 67 midwest tour.  Crazy as it sounds-I have reviews of Nov 67 shows-but none have photos.  So if what you say is true-then the November Thanksgiving tour with Buffalo Springfield was the debut of the white suits.  They were still wearing the white suits in early 1970 and they wore a variation of the white suits at the Milwaukee Pop Fest in the summer of 1970-but by the Nov-Dec European tour they were no longer wearing uniforms (undoubtedly at Jack Reilley's request)

Ian - My first Beach Boys Concert was  April 28, 1967 at the long-gone Back Bay Theatre in Boston; and of course I was 5 years old!  I went with a bunch of kids from school and there was a collective "gasp" right through the third row as we exclaimed,  "Where are their striped shirts?" Again in the same theatre in November of 1967, and in the white suits.  It is kind of tricky to use a 2009 "lens" on what happened in 1967.  At the time, they looked great.  People were mopre excited about seeing the Theremin, than anything else and as I remember the crowd was "older" and less of the "arena" or football stadium crowd;  more reserved, I guess.      8)


I don't know if they ever wore the striped shirts elsewhere, but I never saw them, and with Pet Sounds having been released a year or so earlier, there might have been some kind of wardrobe "reformation" consistent with the progression of the music...

"I don't know if they ever wore the striped shirts elsewhere, but I never saw them, and with Pet Sounds having been released a year or so earlier, there might have been some kind of wardrobe "reformation" consistent with the progression of the music... "


wardrobe reformation................that could go right up there with wardrobe malfunction.... :lol

....I can use that term to explain why I'm dressed in casual Friday on a Wednesday........

In terms of what you said-they wore striped shirts at all the shows on the May 1967 European tour-there are tons of photos. They wore striped shirts in Hawaii in Aug 67-you can see the film. They wore striped shirts in October 1967-I have photos of the shows and reviews from 1967 papers.  So-I really think, with all due respect, that your memory of April 1967 is skewed-unless they wore white suits for that one show and then went back to stripes...They wore striped shirts for many of the other shows on the April 67 tour-I have photos from about 5 shows. 

As I said there is overwhelming evidence that they continued to wear the striped shirts till Oct 67. They played the Back Bay Theatre in Nov 1967 as well, are you sure that wasn't the time you saw them?  That would solve everything. The only other explanation is that they experimented with the suits but then went back to stripes for 6 more months-but that seems hard to believe.  I have no photos of April 28-as far as I can tell the show wasn't reviewed, though I have ads from the Herald and the Globe...but I do have pics from April 19 and 21 and 29-all striped shirts. As well as May 67-for example NME Poll Winners-in stripes

They toured in April of 1967 with the Strawberry Alarm Clock and it was about 6 months post Good Vibrations.  I have my Spring 1967 Program (I think the Fall 1967 was a different program book; I have both.) 

November 1967 was with Buffalo Springfield (Go Steve Stills!!!) - It may be that they were dressing for the "audience" as Americans in Europe, where the climate, politically, musically and socially were a little different because of the Vietnam War, and people were very excited about the Thermin.  Mike did not play that in Boston with a striped shirt on, in April of 1967.  He may have had "street clothing on" but I am sure of November 1967 because I still have a picture of one of the guys in the white suit.   And, they may have travelled with more than one "stage uniform," depending on where they were playing.

I probably remember those shows better because they were among the first, and much to my parents' chagrin,
I paid more attention to the Beach Boys, than Algebra and Geometry.  :lol

The April '67 shows weren't with the SAC - that was November of that year, when they toured with both the SAC and the Springfield. Also in April 1968 for the tour that was mildly disrupted by King's assassination. I think your recollection is out by a year.  :)

The April 1967 show wasn't with Strawberry Alarm Clock-they were on the tour with Buffalo Springfield in Nov 1967. The Apr 28 show was opened by Tommy James & the Shondells, the Buckinghams and Jim and Jean. I have the ads-so I think you are indeed recalling the Nov 67 show

Once again proving that "first-hand" memory is often the least accurate.

Jim and Jean sound familiar as well as the Buckinghams for sure.  There was usually a "comedy act" followed by a warm up band, the Shondells, maybe. My focus was not on them. It was a long time to wait for the "headliners." I would be very interested in seeing some photos of the April show, now that this issue has been raised.  I have eaten ( yum-yum) a few words with a "fork and spoon" in my lifetime!  :lol

The Beach Boys usually did about 12-14 songs, and the music community wanted to see this "Theremin." It was a "serious" audience.   According to Badman, they were in NJ the next day and on their way to Ireland, but were picked up in Boston. 

Monday, May 1st was the same day that Carl had to appear in Federal Court in LA as a result of his Conscientious Objector status.  According to Badman, he had been arrested in New York two days before the Boston show and there was concert about whether he would be there.  His Selective Service Status was as large an issue as the show.

Back Bay Theatre was demolished the following spring. 

Anybody prepared to speculate when Mike started wearing his white 'robe'...?

European tour May '69? Not sure if he wore it in Europe late '68 also...

Interestingly, once having returned to The States, when appearing on the Mike Douglas TV show, Mike sports the more conventional white suit...

Maybe Mike toned it (his image) down for US viewers...

I'm pretty positive he didn't wear it on the 68 tour.  The producers of American Band mislabled the Brighton footage as England 1968 but that footage-with Mike dancing around in his white robes was filmed at the Brighton show that opened the 69 tour.  All the photos (properly dated) and stuff from mags indicates that he wore those in 69.  It is funny  that he didn't wear them on Douglas it's true-maybe your right about his reasons

Ian - When was the "inverticube" program released?  I just  looked at mine and it is full of "white suits" including one of Dennis walking barefoot on some beach.  If it was sold in November of 1967, in Boston, then it might "reference backwards" as to what was being worn and when.  I am not convinced that they did not "switch uniforms" - who would play in a suit in a " hot (temperature) venue" when they could wear a short sleeved shirt? 

It might also follow that if they were playing to a more "academic" audience, they might have worn the suits rather than short sleeves.  I am not sure if photos of the concert were permitted or prohibited;  I tend to think prohibited without permission.   :)

That program is from the Friends tour....mid '68.

Jon - I just received an email from a nice man who was at the May - 1967 show at MIT and he says that it was 80 degrees at the show and that they did wear striped shirts, and that it was so hot, presumably before the end of the semester that they were "swimming" in a "moat-like area" on the  campus.  Short-sleeved shirts make more sense on a hot night with college kids drinking beer from kegs!

The problem with the Capitol Program books is that there is no dated copyright which would place it "in time" with other "documentary evidence" from that period which would "self-authenticate"  as an "ancient document"(over 25 years)as to what was going on at the time.

The jury is still out on this one... ;)

Errr... small problem - there was no May 1967 gig at MIT. Or anywhere in the USA. The band were in Europe for the whole of May. Try May 1966 - the 6th.  :)

You might find these pages useful: http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs.html (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs.html)

Thanks Jon for the kind words and Andrew - I did not use your site as I considered it "cheating...

The "bad news" for this guy is that he could be a year older than he thought...the Beach Boys show, is part of the MIT Alumi pages for that year...he could have been an underclassman...

There would likely be some clothing contracts or "fitting" schedules if they were individually tailored   
and isn't it true that many "private" dates are not published?

Whatever the case, April 28, 1967 was my first show, and on the 30th,  some  friends who had been at the Boston airport got Dennis'and Carl's autographs on my program... it was in 2008, when brother Brian kindly signed, and Mike and Bruce's still later... over 40 years later...

This has been an interesting thread... 8)  Thanks!

The MIT show was first scheduled for Apr 30 1966-a big event at Crane's Beach.  The BBs played at Boston College earlier and then drove there-but they got lost and hardly started playing before the curfew, so they graciously agreed to come to MIT itself and play a makeup show on May 6  1966, which I presume was a dayoff originally-though they may have played somewhere else that day as well.  The MIT student newspaper is online and you can find articles about the May 6 1966 show if you look for it.  I contributed most of the concert info at AGD's site and I have collected way too many concert reviews and photos about this stuff-so I know a lot of facts and can back them up-but I never saw the BBs in the 60s or 70s so I certainly envy you

Ian -  It is cool to look back and see the Band, get better over time, and each of the members have their own musical "personality" if you will, since I first started listening to them, and all the media to "hear them" on, evolve and change from 45's to mp3 players...and all that in between. 

It is amazing to see the influence they have had on "world music" and the great reception they get when they tour.  You have done well to dig up all those cool resources like student newspapers to get the "feel" of what the kids were doing and how the Beach Boys music played a part in their school days...

You would not believe the girls screaming for Dennis who would toss drumsticks out to the audience and on the flipside, watching Carl sing his heart out, that last summer in '97, with an audience in tears, as he was singing his farewell to his fans...

So that "make up date" the Boys played is something that some guy can still speak of with such fondness over 40 years later...and the great time they had at the "genius factory" that is still MIT! Does it get much better?

 ;)

I saw them at the San Francisco Civic in '76 or '77 and I was surprised to see them wearing the striped shirts . I think they were maybe trying to be "campy". It was the first tour after Blondie and Ricky had left.

Blondie left in '73, Ricky left in '74, they toured a lot in between those two occurrences...they played the S.F. Civic in late '74...but never in '76 or '77.

I think it would be kind of cool if the touring Beach Boys brought back the striped shirts today. It certainly beats Hawaiian shirts, in my opinion.

To be fair...they haven't worn the Hawaiian shirts in years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJhPqf-WqE&feature=related

Ok..it was 74 then..I stand corrected.

Just to continue the thread...Does anybody think that the white suits were anymore "hip?"  Personally I think that the white suits was a poor idea in 1968-they looked much cooler in their street clothes and no other (non motown) acts were wearing matching suits in 1968.  Certainly looked "square" when compared with the big acts of that time-Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Doors, the Byrds, Rolling Stones, Buffalo Springfield, Kinks, etc, etc. I think the white suits gave them a kind of Osmonds, safe, kind of look.

I have nothing against the white suits. On the other hand, I have no style or interest in style whatsoever. Apart from the shirtless, vested look of Love, I don't much care who wears what. (A big, fat Brian in sweat pants and an untucked, half unbuttoned shirt? Fine.)

Embarrassingly enough, back in the day, the white outfits were labeled "ice cream suits" by the hipster establishment. Couldn't agree more-not even Dennis could make em look acceptable in person. :o

You are definitely wrong about that. There were a lot of groups performing in matching outfits in '68. Dave Clark Five, Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Monkees, Fifth Dimension, Four Seasons, Moody Blues, First Edition, Ike and Tina, Vanilla Fudge, Brooklyn Bridge, Five Americans...I'm just pulling these off the top of my head. I'll bet there were at least 50 hit rock/pop acts that were performing in matching outfits in 1968. I'm not saying I liked it...but it was a fact.

IIRC, the "ice cream suits" were a set of brightly colored and/or pastel suits that they wore for the Eye magazine shoot -- not the white suits.

BTW, I'm correcting the spelling in the subject line, because "stripped shirts" = shirtless. Not that that's a bad thing when it comes to Denny.  ;D

Vanilla ice cream is white, is it not?

Not. More like ivory... maybe parchment... but not white.  :)

Looks white enough to me:

(http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1881/images/1881_MEDIUM.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_koa6gYvQPWQ/SlOFQTz68iI/AAAAAAAAAc0/thtP-l90xls/s400/vanilla+ice+cream.jpg)(http://beyondwonderful.com/images/recipes/desserts_vanilla_ice_cream_300x450.jpg)(http://img.foodnetwork.com/FOOD/2003/11/13/ee2d11_vanilla_ice_cream_lg.jpg)

Ivory is, of course, a common shade of white (or "off-white"); hence the keys of a piano are often referred to as white. Eggshell and cream are also shades of white.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_%28color%29

Yeah, but Dennis would have looked good in... well, pretty much anything.  ;D

I've seen yellow-ish vanilla ice cream.

Definitely- there's even white chocolate.  And I guess there's Vanilla Fudge. Found some yellow-tinted vanilla on the image search here and there, I think maybe the yellow is added sometimes to indicate some kind of additional custard flavoring. But generally vanilla ice cream is off-white.

I think they usually call the yellowish vanilla "New York Vanilla." The whiter stuff is either French vanilla or just unnamed, plain ol' vanilla.

If whatever makes it yellowish sometimes has something to do with New York, don't anybody tell me what it is.

In reference to the earlier question about Mike wearing his Maharishi robes-he did wear them in the states-I looked thru pics (from newspaper reviews I have) and he wore them at Tampa in April 1969-probably that entire tour.  so they weren't just for Europe

Thanks for that Ian, much appreciated.  :)

Just saw Knebworth (1980) and Farm Aid (1985)  and respectively, Al Jardine had the white suit on (probably to stay warm) and the striped shirt (blue and white) ...just Al...there was also a period where they seemed to have some white short sleeve shirt and neckerchief which seemed subsequent to the white suit jacket...must have been so hot under those lights to play with a blazer on... ;)

I stand corrected. It was 1974. Dennis' hand had healed and was on drums. My buddy Butch took pictures and lost the roll of film! :-[ :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nevw80yB_Sk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nevw80yB_Sk)

I know exactly how old I am  :wink, and since I was on the Spring Weekend Committee that mounted the truncated Crane Beach concert and attended it, I know when it was held and have a few memories of the day, some more distinct than others, but, alas, no pics.  Some anecdotes are second-hand, but I was in the room at the Sheraton Boston early Sunday morning when the Beach Boys offered their makeup concert for the following Friday, saw Dennis shirtless  :), and attended the Friday afternoon makeup concert and heard Mike's "Thank you".

I've read around here only a bit, and wil note that I've long been a fan of the Beach Boys, but know zero about them compared to what I've seen from some of the posts I've read.

I'll write, but a couple of requests...

Ian, you wrote you "contributed most of the concert info at AGD's site".  Could you - or anybody - please direct me to that site so if there's info there on the two MIT concerts I won't be just duplicating what's there?

Will someone please give me some guidelines on the tolerance for OT on this board?  I have a couple of funnies not directly Beach Boys related but related to the whole day at Crane Beach, like of Newhart's set, and, since I was a long-ago Thurber fan, what I've always remembered as "The Night the Tent Fell", but I'll certainly omit them if I'm transgressing board conventions.

Should I write here, or start a new "Beach Boys at MIT" thread?

The Beach Boys playing on the beach!  What could be better?   8)

COMMENT:

The Beach Boys stopped wearing striped shirts in 1967.


SELECTION FROM AN ARTICLE ENTITLED: "Waves of Nostalgia

The Beach Boys' Mike Love remembers the band's early years.

May 12, 2000|BILL LOCEY | SPECIAL TO THE LOS ANGELES TIMES

The Wilsons are gone now--Carl and Dennis have died and Brian is living in the Midwest--but front man Mike Love carries on the legacy, and he still has a few stories to tell.

How did the band end up in those striped shirts?

We weren't very creative. In the photos on our first album we were actually wearing Pendletons with white T-shirts underneath and white jeans. Then we just stole the striped shirt idea from the Kingston Trio. They were wearing those same shirts, doing their folk music--that's where we got "Sloop John B"--we just picked up their laundry one day."

SELECTION FROM "THE BEACH BOYD FAQ

Striped Shirts

The end of The Beach Boys' striped-shirt phase didn't come until late 1967, over two years too late. The Beatles were still wearing matching suits in August 1966. The Rolling Stones ditched matching stage outfits back in 1963. But the Beach Boys continued to wear those candy-striped referee shirts that might have looked cool in 1964, but looked completely ridiculous in the context of 1967. They switched to matching ice-cream-white suites in late 1967, which weren't much better. They finally went to non-matching gear sometime in 1969. But the Beach Boys stood out because those striped shirts had become so iconic. To see them still wearing candy strips so many years later would have been equal to seeing the Beatles wearing collarless jackets in 1967. That would have been ridiculous; and in the case of the Beach Boys, it was."

Beach Boy management was able to keep their iconic signature look of stripped shirts unique to the group for some time by putting legal pressure on clothing distributors to not sell the strips. Even today it is extremely difficult to find any shirt that is a match for The Beach Boy classic look.

~SWD

It's always gonna be a problem when boys...big boys, and young men allow their parents to dress them...in this case Murry.  They looked pretty darned hip on the cover of Pet Sounds.  Turn the album over...and there they are in those danged striped shirts again.  The white suits?  Yikes!!!  I guess having the parental units [Murry again with the stripes and thoses pants which didn't do Carl any favours at all] choose your clothes it kinda makes it impossible to do well when it becomes your turn to select the wardrobe.  Horrid 'training'.

Mind you...the Hawaiian shirts for decades ain't workin' either.  And Bruce in shorts?  Really?  But at this particular juncture in the festivities...I suppose uncool is cool.  I personally don't give a tinker's damn what anyone else wears when it comes to what I'm gonna throw on.  Mine is the only drumbeat which matters. :hat

Welcome JeffO! A Smiley brew in order for you!  :beer

How cool to have been on the welcome committee at MIT!

Shirtless Dennis!  :lol

Someplace online there is a Boston Herald photo of most of the band, from April, 1967. It was very newsworthy since Carl had just been released after having been arrested in connection with draft evasion.  They had the striped shirts on.  I ran across some ancient poor quality photo from that show. Striped shirts.  

Then in November of 1967, they were in the white suits, that Al Jardine still can rock! As you remember, most of the bands wore identical suits until mid 1960's...maybe to look sharp on the Ed Sullivan Show!  :lol

Amen sister, amen!  ;D

I vote for a new thread! :thumbsup

So I now have three questions:

1.  When did the Kingston Trio first start wearing striped shirts, and when did they abandon the look?

2.  Who made the striped shirts for the Kingston Trio and the BBs?  Did they get them from the same shirt company?

3.  Are there any known comments by members of the Kingston Trio about the BBs copping their look?

I will say, from personal experience,  that pin stripe shirts were ubiquitous in the early through mid sixties for US teens and young adults.  You could walk into a classroom anywhere in the country and see half a dozen guys, and girls too, wearing these types of shirts.  I don't think any of us dressed like the Beatles or for that matter, the Young Rascals.
I will also say, that the Beatles defineitely DID influence hairstyles almost immediately after they first appeared.
Remember Beachboys in longish hair, The Long Princeton swept across the forehead, wearing the striped shirts?  The BeachBoys seemed to follow fashion trends;  Pendeltons, Stripes, Suits, Hippie Attire, Disco Attire , Hawian Prints, and more recently, middle aged guy casual.

I liked the stripes. Would be cool to see them worn again by the band.

"Would be cool to see them worn again by the band."

No it wouldn't. ;D  Although it could work if they did like an oldies style opening set wearing that 'stuff' and then changed into something decent for the next phase of the show.  But just wearing loungin' around clothes from the rec room out onto the performing stage is pretty lame to me.  Dress like the occaision is of some importance and a cut above sittin' around watching TV.  It is, after all, show business.  Oh...and NO baseball-style hats.

No ball caps????????   Wouldn't be the Beachboys without Mike in a cap!

Since when are the Striped shirts not decent?  And Why would anyone think they're simply loungin around clothes?

The striped shirts are decent.  I think you might have misread what I was saying...or perhaps I wasn't clear....Phase 2 of the show...after the oldies and striped shirts are accounted for...don't just wander back out for part 2 in another Hawaiian shirt or something that looks like it's been worn all day long.  It's a 'show'.  So put one on.

Mike's worn some interesting head wear along the way.  Mere baseball caps are...well...not very 'show-bizzy'.  Remember Mike's garb during the 15 Big Ones Tour?  THAT was show biz.  The big ol' boat was pretty cool too.  Of course that was back in and around when the group was considered one of the TOP touring units in the industry.

they could all wear tuxedo jackets and swimming trunks.......look like surfin Robert Goulet's .    Or like they forgot their pants.