The Smiley Smile Message Board

9/4/09

BEACH BOYS ARCHIVE INCLUDES LEGENDARY 1972 CARNEGIE HALL TAPES

by Howie Edelson

The Beatles aren't the only '60s icons preserving their legendary catalogue and vault; the Beach Boys' team is hard at work cataloging the thousands of tapes which make up their archive. The team -- chief archivist Alan Boyd and producer/engineer Mark Linett -- has recently collected all of the known elements of the band's unfinished 1967 album Smile, and have now uncovered the multi-tracks for the Beach Boys' two historic concerts at New York's Carnegie Hall on November 23rd, 1972.

For years, only half of one of the shows has been available in pristine stereo on the underground market. Boyd says that the band's company Brother Records is in possession of all of the multi-track masters of the shows, and is now collecting appropriate film and video footage which could be included on a potential project.

Elvis Costello saw the Beach Boys six months prior to the Carnegie Hall show in his then-hometown of Liverpool, and was amazed at how the band's current image and musicality transcended their iconic '60s image: "I saw the Beach Boys in Liverpool at the Liverpool Empire. That was a very different experience. They were in that... one of the periods, although Carl and Dennis (Wilson) were singing in the band, Brian (Wilson) wasn't with them, but the Surf's Up album and the beautiful Carl And The Passions album were out -- and Holland -- those records were out. Dennis sang an extraordinary version of "Cuddle Up" at that gig, which I'll never forget. That was an incredible thing to see; because although the main writer wasn't present, you realize that they had reclaimed themselves as a creative band away from the cliched idea of these guys that sing these car songs and dress in stripey shirts."

The songs performed by the Beach Boys at Carnegie Hall: "Sloop John B.," "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone," "Leaving This Town," "Darlin'," "Only With You," "Heroes And Villains," "Long Promised Road," "Don't Worry Baby," "Student Demonstration Time," "I Get Around," "Marcella," "California Saga," "Help Me, Rhonda," "Medley: Wonderful/Don't Worry Bill," "God Only Knows," "Do It Again," "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Wild Honey," "Good Vibrations," "Surfin' U.S.A," "Fun, Fun, Fun," and "Jumpin' Jack Flash."

The official members of the Beach Boys at the time were Dennis and Carl Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Blondie Chaplin, and Ricky Fataar.

Alan Boyd says that his and Linett's primary public duties for the Beach Boys are locating the masters to the band's earlier work, and remixing them into modern stereo mixes for the band's numerous career-spanning compilations: "The fans and the public at large really seem to like these new stereo mixes, and that was really apparent when Mark did Pet Sounds in 1997. And the reaction to that is so strong that he started looking at other albums and other tracks, so every time we have the opportunity -- we did a lot of this on the Hawthorne record -- we've been going back and doing that, 'cause there's so much pressure brought to bear, y'know, in the market, for things to be in stereo."

Boyd and Linett -- both Grammy nominees -- have collaborated on such recent Beach Boys collections as Endless Harmony, Hawthorne, CA, Good Timin': Live At Knebworth England 1980, The Warmth Of The Sun, The Original U.S. Singles Collection The Capitol Years 1962-1965 box set, and the recently released Summer Love Songs.

Linett is also known for his work with Brian Wilson over the past two decades -- including the revamping of the entire Beach Boys' catalogue beginning in the late 1980's. Linett's work on 2004's Brian Wilson Presents Smile was nominated for a Grammy for Best Engineered Album (Non-Classical).

The Beach Boys -- featuring Mike Love and Bruce Johnston -- perform tomorrow night (September 5th) in Saint Petersburg, Florida at Tropicana Field.

Beach Boys cofounder David Marks will join Southern California rock legends Dean Torrence of Jan & Dean and Billy Hinsche at Endless Summer Quarterly's East Coast Convention dubbed the "Pet Sounds Safari" on September 11th and 12th in Cornelius and Davidson, North Carolina -- which is just 20 minutes North of the Charlotte Metro area. Proceeds from the convention will benefit the Cornelius Animal Shelter. For ticket, schedule, and venue information, log on to endlesssummerquarterly.blogspot.com.

Brian Wilson kicks off his next series of solo dates on October 23rd in Mount Pleasant, Michigan at the Soaring Eagle Casino & Resort.

Wilson has just added a new date to his itinerary, and will play on November 12th in Lowell, Massachusetts at the Lowell Memorial Auditorium.

Now this sounds tasty!

I like the Carnegie project, audio and video? Sign me up! However, I really hope they stop releasing 12 songs we already have and like 3 new ones...They need to beef up these cds with purely unreleased material...or a box set!

Seconded

Do I hear "BeachBoysCentral.com" and "50th anniversary" ?

Ha!!

Does this mean they've recently, as in post-BWPS, collected all known elements of Smile i.e. in preparation for a possible sessions release or am I misreading this?

Do you mean this will come out for the 50th Anniversary of BeachBoysCentral.com (counting from the day it goes live, that is) ?   ::)

How was this just a passing mention??

The Smile mention gives me hope of a future Smile sessions release . . . and is anyone else stoked about finally getting a soundboard recording of Blondie singing "Wild Honey?"

And what, if anything, was found that is new?  If they were collecting all of the known "elements," does that mean the Durrie Parks acetates and other recordings in private hands were collected?  Or maybe this just refers the parts of The Elements, and everything else was ignored.

Wow, this sounds interesting! :) I really can't wait for the 50th anniversary just to see what comes of it!

A good, full 1972 Carnegie CD, DVD or CD and DVD package would be so great ... especially if there were extras including additional footage, interviews (of the time and modern) with surviving band members, etc. I really hope something like that is released as a distinct package, not with tracks here and there across compilations.

Oh yeah, and the Smile stuff sounds good too.  8)

Yeah I had no idea that it was filmed so that is awesome news! I also reckon they should release that 67 concert from Paris I think it was? There was a clip of them doing "God Only Knows" from that and it was really good.

But yeah a SMiLE box set would be the best, but I'd still love to see some more concerts released. How about the Sacramento shows and the '93 Paramount Theatre concert as well? But honestly, I'd be happy with anything new that comes out.

I have always wanted to see more of the Chaplin/Fataar era live. I have only seen 2 second glimpses in documentaries and such.

I think I'm too stupid to understand this press release... ???
Are they announcing the opening of BBcentral ?
A SMiLE box? Or is this just more good news about finding lost tapes? HELP

I'd still prefer a soundboard recording of Carl singing "Wild Honey," but that's just me.  ;D  I certainly wouldn't turn the other down, tho.

Seriously, I'd love to hear all of this material!

Mostly the latter. The release says only that they have got, logged and mixed audio of the Carnegie show so that it could be released, as they have been doing with other audio (including Smile tapes). There isn't any launch or release being announced here.

This is the best thing I've heard/read all year.;D Let's hope we get BOTH shows on cd, as well as on dvd. I'd also like to have BOTH of the Maryland 1977 pro-shot films. A 30 disc box set of the complete 1966-67 Smile tapes would be great, too.  ;D Let's hope they don't f*** it up and only release it on iTunes, or even worse, mp3.

The Carnegie Hall show is just the tops--Dennis and Carl are in such fine form!

Does anyone know whether Dennis sang Cuddle Up in the 2nd Carnegie Hall set?
Probably not. :(

I saw that "You Need A Mess Of Help(To Stand Alone)" is one of the songs mentioned. I believe that not to many live versions of that are around.

Good questions.  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

As much as I would like to hear this concert in full, I hate that they make such a big deal about Dennis Wilson's contribution to the live act - yet this release would contain barely a trace of that. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but when will we ever get to hear properly recorded and mastered live 70's performances of Surf's Up, Forever, Barbara, Disney Girls, Feel Flows, River Song, Big Sur, Cool Cool Water, Cuddle Up, Don't Talk etc.?

Much better, it's gonna be a multi-track recording, no shitty soundboard !





Does this mean that the shows were filmed? Or are they trying to synch it with video from other performances?

Based on a contemporaneous review of this show and photos I've seen from other November '72 shows, the band's lineup was ten people:  Dennis (vocals/piano/electric piano/organ/synth), Carl (vocals/guitar/electric piano), Mike (vocals/tambourine/theremin), Alan (vocals/guitar), Blondie (vocals/guitar/bass/tambourine), Ricky (vocals/drums/flute/pedal steel guitar), and four side-people:  Toni Tennille (piano/electric piano), Daryl Dragon (organ/synth/piano/vibes), Ed Carter (bass/guitar/congas), and a percussionist on drums/timbales/tambourine/sleighbells/bass (Dennis Dragon told me he doesn't play bass, but since Mike Kowalski does, it was likely him).  Dennis (Wilson) sang lead on "Rhonda" and he sang Bruce's parts on "Wonderful" and "God Only Knows".  Al MAYBE played banjo on "California Saga" (as he would later), but it doesn't really sound like it here.

I waiting for the day when each official Beach Boys album will be released as a set:

•The original released recording
•Digital stereo mixes
•Studio: Takes (and mis-takes!)
•Concerts: Live versions from that time period
•Media: TV, Video clips, live interviews (audio or audio and video)
•Print: Still photos and articles/interviews

Say wha?  :o

Plus, on a separate note, there must be a live recording of 'I've Got A Friend' in the archives somewhere - It was regularly done in 72, amirite?

Yes yes please, I would love 'I've Got A Friend'!  How about including it (and the other rare live tracks) as a bonus on the Carnegie set ?

Does this mean that maybe a wave of "new" releases are in our future? 

I'd definitely paddle out into the lineup to catch THAT "wave". Hardy har har.

Don't Talk was included in several Spring '74 shows.  On a related note, I'm Waiting For The Day was included in several Fall '74 shows.

I have heard  Don't Talk, very haunting vocal by Carl, although I like Warmth of the Sun from the same period with the Carl lead and it sounds like Al on the high harmony is even more spectular to my ears. Waiting for The Day which I have always loved anyway with Billy H and Al on lead is also excellent!

Missed this article/discussion while I was out of town for the weekend.  Wow, great news!  Something to look forward to for sure!

Hmm.  What's this unfinished 1967 SMiLE album all about?


Sounds kind of interesting...




...anyone else hear about this?

 :3d

I'M READY TO PURCHASE.  Just give me a couple of weeks to recover from repurchasing the Beatles catalogue. ::)

Easy. Take our Masonic code book. You know: the one. That no one outside knows. Open it. Choose only the pages that carry prime numbers. Take only the lines on those pages that correspond with the Fibonacci series: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5... you know the score. Now, take every odd letter in those lines. Make a string of all the letters you will find in the Secret Book in this way, spaces are defined by 'ii'. Memorize the appearing message very carefully. Ring the Secret Number. You will get an answering machine. Speak the message after the bleep, very carefully articulated.  You will be called back. Mr. Billy Castillo will tell you the details of a certain bank safe locker, and how get the safe opened by an employee, who will respond only to a secret word. If you do that wrong, said employee will shoot you. If you do it right, he will open the safe and hand the whole SMiLE story over to you, in three book volumes spanning 5,000 pages. They will self-destuct after two hours, having been exposed to open air is the irreversible route to their disintegration. The case in the locker also contains 10 precious acetates. These even have a shorter lifespan after the opening procedure, namely 30 minutes. It is up to you to bring them to the Steve Hoffmann Mastering Labs.

Good Luck!

How long did it take you to think all of that up?  ;D

 :lol Cheers for that! I guess three minutes. I have what is called a hyperactive language center. So I only thought about 'Mission Impossible' (the TV series) for two seconds, and presto! the story unfolded...

Those sound brilliant! I need to go shoe hunting, it seems  :wink

The half that's going around is a great show. Only the tuneups and the 1964 oldies were below par.

Gosh, bumping old threads sure is weird. I had totally forgotten about my posts here... did I really write that?

Stone brilliance.

I bumped it because we are now getting the Smile tape also I think it's a great show that I want to see further discussed.

Eh... isn't that a bit greedy? I mean, you sound like you'd want this on a 3 disk set on the heels of the Smile Sessions... :police:

Well especally if they do some vinyl with it like they are with Smile!

WAIT????

So, I'll be able to hold a gatefold Frank Holmes adorned vinyl copy of "The Beach Boys: Smile" in my hands and then slide it in on my shelf between Pet Sounds and Wild Honey??

Should be noted that the BBs taped the Nov 23 1972 shows because they were recording their In Concert LP.  They then took these recordings and stuff from the Nov 72 Passaic show and made a tape-but after playing it to various parties they decided it didn't cut the mustard and they ended up scrapping the album and waiting till the summer of 73 to try again. Some of the songs from Passaic are on the 73 release but not from Carnegie Hall. Perhaps Brian influenced them-he told a 73 interviewer that when they played him the 72 tapes he was underwhelmed.  Exact quote "I just didn't think it was that good."  A few recordings of course showed up on the Endless Harmony release.

Was this tape that they compiled the same single disc "In Concert" one that the record company rejected? Or was the tape they compiled just a rough "demo" idea for a concert album, predating even the single disc edit?

yes-this was the single disc concert album

Isn't that a great thought?

But will Smile usurp Smiley Smile for you?!!

Smile will eat Smiley Smile and become it. Sort of like the alien in The Thing!

Anyone think there's still hope for the Carnegie Hall shows to be released?  Any updates from our Honored Guests?

I am a believer!   I am!

It's one of my major 2012 hopes.

Being one of the best shows I've ever seen them do, it could take it's place right up there with TSS.

Early 70's. My favorite concert era as a Beach Boys fan.

Imagine having this as a newly remastered  CD..

Oh my!  >:D

Luck you!...listening to the show as we have it...I find Mike's behavior a little odd.  From the beginning of the show he kind of scolds the audience for the cat-calls and screams; lecturing them on the fact that they're recording the show.  I dunno, seemed like harmless calls from the audience, I didn't think they were being very disruptive.  Mike calling them "punks" was out of place--they were after all fans.  My impression is that it put off the audience for a good part of the show until Mike had to kind of tell them to act out again and "infuse a little more happiness or joy or something...."  Seemed to me like the audience backed off so much after Mike corrected them earlier that they were loosing their presence in the recording. 

Since you were there....was there any of that feeling? 

Ok, here's a question for everybody. If they were to release the 1972 Carnegie Hall tape(s), would you want it totally, 100% unedited, "warts and all"? If I recall correctly(it's been a while since I listened to it) there were some really long pauses between songs. The intro to "Long Promised Road" for example is much longer than what you hear on the Endless Harmony cd.

Good question Jay and such a topic can be a controversial one amongst fans and live recordings of their favorite artists/bands....some want the untouched recording as-is...while others don't care.  I for one, don't care...and wouldn't mind if they edited the concert down removing the long unnecessary gaps in between songs.  It's their right to do so. I would doubt they would give us the full concerts like that....there would be no benefit for doing so...it would only waste space on a CD thus waste a lot of money.  I found the way they edited the chatter before "Long Promised Road" on the EH cd was creative.

That's another point. I wouldn't mind if little things like that got edited out. Some feedback here, a "false start" there. But I would NOT be ok with a guitar solo or electric keyboard solo(there are quite a few in "Help Me Rhonda" lol) being edited out to shorten a song. Or something like removing Dennis's coda to "Only With You".

But there's no way in hell they would edit any actual performance out.
I don't mind them editing out the constant fiddling with the snare drum or lengthy stage banter, however.

Greedy I know, but it'd be great to have both - as we have with the official Knebworth release and the unofficial unadulterated Stoneage release of the same gig. Different listening occasions call for different experiences.

In the Elvis boot world, fans get upset when concerts are edited down and released on the official bootleg label...they don't want the chatter or the false starts edited out.  To me, the general rule should be that the full, raw concert should be found on the bootlegs and the edited, cleaned up concert should be on the official label.  Sure, that's not totally applicable here considering we don't even have the complete Carnegie Hall show to enjoy but let's hope that if/when they do release it...we should be happy it's released at all.  And yes, I'd want both shows too.  I doubt we'd see both complete shows but probably a concert made up of the two.

Justin-I wish to aplologize-I attended the 71 show at Carnegie. Sorry, man.  ;D

For studio sessions takes, the banter is fine, and sometimes interesting. The talking and carrying on is fine (i,e, SOT sessions) and sometimes funny (Dance, Dance, Dance session) but some of Mike Love's banter is monotonous on, say, the 1966 Michigan shows, where he just talks and talks and talks and talks between songs. I know Dennis eventually got tired of it, and I'd be real surprised if the rest of the band didn't get tired of it too. After some of those '66 shows (one was funny where they tried out Good Vibrations for the first time and Mike says he's looking for a fire hydrant he's so nervous) but MAN, after awhile it was.......JUST SHUT UP!!! In 68 it was the same thing promoting TM and I've heard a couple of shows even in '71 where Mike just goes off on these looooong tangents!!!  ::)

Where was I? Oh yeah, for live performances, you gotta edit out some of the long carrying on between songs, or you're gonna find yourself fast-forwarding to the next song after you've heard it once.

haha it's alright..still lucky that you saw a true Beach Boys show!  Still have the ticket stub?

This may seem a bit far fetched, but I never purchased a ticket. Drove from Philly to NYC with no ticket in hand. I knew it was a sell out but no, I was a fan and had to pull out all the stops. Parked across the street from CH, approached either an usher or a guard in front of the doors and informed him  of what I had done to get there. He told me to come back after the crowd was in, slip him 5 or 10.00 and he'd let me in. I calmly strolled down the aisle toward the front, found a no-show seat and watched the show. To this day, it all seems like a dream.

Way too cool!  Man, could any of us pull that off today? Doubt it.  I'll try it at one of the Reunion shows and let you know  :hat  Thanks for sharing!

I wondered why the intro to California Girls was cut on Live In London, until I heard the bootleg. Those are the kind of things Mike should never have done imo

Exactly! I mean, you listen to those live boots from 1966 thru 1969 and sometimes the guy doesn't know when to stop! And there's no real excuse for it - it's not like he's biding time because somebody's fixing a broken guitar string or adjusting the sound levels/mix or arguing amongst themselves in the background about what to play next or burning time on purpose because they didn't have many songs to play. Mike just carried on forever!!

So if/when they ever come out with a new live show or compilation form that era, there's a LOT to edit out there.

My favorite Beach Boy's most significant problem was not that he was a strange looking bald man, it was, as most of us know, his egocentric nature. He had to be totally convinced that his audience was in dire need to hear his bleatings about the most trite subjects on Earth  between songs. His "jokes" were moronic as was his endless babbling between songs. I can handily recount Carl's eye rolling at it and Dennis icily staring at him as if to say "cut the sh*t and get going". And, apparently, his wildly out of control ego is still healthy  and  thriving according to USA Today in reference to the upcoming reunion. Rolling Stone contributing editor DeCurtis says, "it seems the strategy(of the tour) is to position Mike Love as Brian Wilson's (creative) equal, though that's not remotely the case. I f this is going to work, MIKE CAN'T FEEL SLIGHTED."   :angry

Your reasons for not liking Mike are valid if you saw the lovester blabber on in public. I can't listen to him talk on live in michigan or the french show from 1969 on youtube.

I'm immediately flashing back to Mike's blurt during the chorus of Denny's sublime reading of You've Got To Hide Your Love Away from one of the '66 Michigan State sets. Ugh.

(If the powers that be ever release that track...and they should...I would only hope they would fly-in/sub-in that tainted line from another chorus, or from the version that exists of the band's other performance set. I'd reckon the luxury of a multitrack mixdown wouldn't even completely eviscerate that aural stain)

PS - That means I also agree with the notion of putting the best foot forward with any commercial BBs live CD (within reason). Carnegie included. :)

I like what Mike says at shows, especially shows in countries where the majority of the audience can't understand him. I find his corniness really endearing.

I think Mike's corniness has evened out with his old age.  It seems to come off slightly more palatable today than it did then...at least to me, it does.

To each his own but  corniness  has not been the best influence in the way the band is viewed. Add those flowing robes, turbans, sequined jackets, tight leotards, feathers, tacky jewelery and a little horn to toot and we have a genuine clown on stage. ::)

I like some of Mike's banter. "Uncomfortable chair" is a genuine classic ! But sometimes it's - as someone already stated - just too much. And an absolute no-go is to make "funny" sounds during the songs.
Nowadays it seems to be better imo. He's cooled down. A lot of times in the 80s and 90s I had the feeling he was trying to hard to suggest the party/free living/hedonistic/good time boy image. Something that Bruce afterwards took over it seems (imo).

Might this be the project that will surface later this year, according to Al?