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Smiley Smile Stuff => Book Reviews => Topic started by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on February 14, 2006, 11:37:38 AM



Title: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on February 14, 2006, 11:37:38 AM
Discuss, review and rate The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in the Studio, released October 1, 2004.

(http://www.smileysmile.net/images/albums/definitivediarybook.jpg) (http://www.bestwebbuys.com/0879308184)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 14, 2006, 11:40:50 AM
I thought it was a good, solid attempt. Especially the bits that were, um, borrowed from my website and the old SmileShop Smile primer.  ;)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: RobtheNobleSurfer on February 14, 2006, 01:34:56 PM
I knew there was a reason why I liked it! ;D


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 14, 2006, 01:44:29 PM
It's truly a bizarre feeling to be leafing through a book and keep coming across familiar bits of writing... but that's all settled now.  ;)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Evenreven on February 15, 2006, 08:52:24 AM
It's truly a bizarre feeling to be leafing through a book and keep coming across familiar bits of writing... but that's all settled now.  ;)
Did you get a proper excuse? What about Lou?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 15, 2006, 01:19:16 PM
Yes... eventually.

Initially the publishers just said "there's only so many ways you can say "Joe Doaks died"", so I offered to send them photocopies of the post-1976 summaries and printouts of my timeline with the, ah, similarities highlighted in green. There was a LOT of green.  ;D

Mailed it. About a week later, got an email saying, essentially, they were sorry and if there was a reprint I'd get proper accreditation and freebies. They also took on board that sections of the  pre-1977 text borrowed heavily from my website.

Keith himself was fine about it - seems he had a team of researchers and some were less than diligent about naming sources. I understand Lou got a similar deal.



Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Mitchell on February 16, 2006, 06:18:44 AM
Problems aside, it's still a great resource, chock full of great photos.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: punkinhead on February 17, 2006, 05:40:25 AM
i like the book a whole lot, prolly one of my favs. great pics, good info, and you can steal the BB/Wrecking Crew's identity via their SSN's on the Session Sheet pics


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 17, 2006, 12:19:41 PM
Love it, very informative and inspiring to read.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: donald on February 22, 2006, 09:05:20 AM
I perused, thumbed, read, and flipped through this for about a year.   A grand lot of minutia, pictures, contracts, and SSN's :D


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: beachboyphil on April 27, 2006, 02:53:20 PM
a great "pick up and pick a year" to read book


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Rocker on June 08, 2006, 02:44:15 PM
A really cool book. I hope there will be a vol.2 but please without so many mistakes. Anyway, I like it very much and it's design is great !


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: MBE on June 08, 2006, 11:24:33 PM
There are some events left out and it should not be considered the last word, but overall the photos are cool and the info helpfull. I really like how it throws light on every member and also helps a lot with the TV shows and tours. It proves Brian's functionality was always higher then the myth said.


Title: Badman question
Post by: Jason Penick on January 25, 2007, 12:33:10 AM
So I've recently been researching the SMiLE sessions and have been using Keith Badman's book as a main source of info.  However I remember there being some controversy when the book came out regarding some of his SMiLE session dates or facts as being incorrect.  So I was wondering if anyone here knew exactly what sessions he goofed on.  Any help appreciated...

Oh for what it's worth, I own the second edition of the book.  (I know this because no social security numbers of session musicians appear in it!)


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on January 25, 2007, 12:49:53 AM
Keith (or his researchers) lifted a LOT of the Smile session info from the excellent primer posted on the old SmileShop site by Lou (uncredited too), so that will be pretty accurate. However, he extrapolated a lot from that info, and much of his guesswork is spurious (in fact, that can be said for his session info in general - the AFM sheets give good information, but his use of them is dubious, notably the first one for "Surfin'"). I can state with total authority that the 12/5/66 session for "Fire" never happened - because I'm the one who, in an issue of Stomp started the myth, based on a misreading of a Capitol session sheet. If his researchers had read the next few issues they'd have seen me 'fess up.  :)

Jason, when did you buy the 2nd edition, and what is the publication date ?


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Jason Penick on January 25, 2007, 11:19:01 AM
Keith (or his researchers) lifted a LOT of the Smile session info from the excellent primer posted on the old SmileShop site by Lou (uncredited too), so that will be pretty accurate. However, he extrapolated a lot from that info, and much of his guesswork is spurious (in fact, that can be said for his session info in general - the AFM sheets give good information, but his use of them is dubious, notably the first one for "Surfin'"). I can state with total authority that the 12/5/66 session for "Fire" never happened - because I'm the one who, in an issue of Stomp started the myth, based on a misreading of a Capitol session sheet. If his researchers had read the next few issues they'd have seen me 'fess up.  :)

Jason, when did you buy the 2nd edition, and what is the publication date ?


Thank you Andrew.  That's interesting because 12.05.66 was what he had listed as the vocal overdubbing session for "Fire", so unless some vocals were laid down at the 11.28.66 tracking session, the piece never had any actual Beach Boy voices on it.

I got my copy through Amazon (US), and apparently I was wrong and  it IS a first edition (2004) which is strange because I've never come across any social security numbers, and I've read through it pretty thoroughly.   ???


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on January 25, 2007, 03:43:55 PM
The SS numbers are shown on the repros of the AFM sheets, not in the text.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Jason Penick on January 25, 2007, 05:39:28 PM
Yeah that I know.  The space on the contracts where you're supposed to write them has been whited out in my copy.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Wilsonista on January 25, 2007, 06:29:11 PM
So those of us that have bought the first copies now own collector's editions?


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on January 25, 2007, 11:20:55 PM
Yeah that I know.  The space on the contracts where you're supposed to write them has been whited out in my copy.

Congratulations, sir - you are the very first person I've come across with one of the 'amended' copies ! I would suspect that yours is far, far rarer than any copy with the SS numbers included.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: matt-zeus on January 26, 2007, 01:53:54 AM
What a bad man


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: MBE on January 26, 2007, 03:16:47 AM
The book does have it's problems but it really helps with certain dates, and getting the feel of a year. I think his best stuff is on the Holland era.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Bicyclerider on January 26, 2007, 09:57:40 AM
I know I made an error (it was a typo I think) on the SMile primer on a date for a Worms session, and that error made it through to Badman's book - I've since corrected the primer.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Third Coast on January 31, 2007, 04:40:13 PM
Yeah that I know.  The space on the contracts where you're supposed to write them has been whited out in my copy.

Congratulations, sir - you are the very first person I've come across with one of the 'amended' copies ! I would suspect that yours is far, far rarer than any copy with the SS numbers included.
The copies with the whited-out SS numbers and marked "first edition" are the only ones I've seen in the stores for about the last two years.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Mark A. Moore on January 31, 2007, 10:20:24 PM
Keith (or his researchers)

Good Christ . . . who is stupid enough to use outside "researchers" for pop music history?? !!

That's the domain of college PhDs in the academic ranks (regardless of subject) . . . and even then the stuff gets vetted. Not that mistakes don't happen . . . they do . . . but it's a more robust process. In the Badman case, I strongly suspect there was no editorial oversight, from a publishing standpoint.

I say, if you don't have time to do it all yourself . . . in lieu of a heavy-weight publisher with resources . . . then don't sign on to the project. You're only setting yourself up for a fall. Self-publishing and niche publishing can be good options . . . but only if you have the raw data (personally at hand) to back up your statements, theories, and opinions.

I mean, certainly you'd want to use previous research if it's valid, and cite secondary sources (that's how it works) . . . but you have to double check your material. And if you don't have any true primary sources to check your facts against . . . then you can get into serious trouble.

I'm not of the mindset that . . . just because something may be "out there" (i.e., available) . . . it's any good. Any book that's rife with factual errors is garbage . . . no matter how big a fan or collector you are.

Name-checking insiders and other researchers is never enough.

My copy of the Badman book includes the Social Security numbers.

M.



Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 02, 2007, 04:55:19 AM
Yeah that I know.  The space on the contracts where you're supposed to write them has been whited out in my copy.

Congratulations, sir - you are the very first person I've come across with one of the 'amended' copies ! I would suspect that yours is far, far rarer than any copy with the SS numbers included.
The copies with the whited-out SS numbers and marked "first edition" are the only ones I've seen in the stores for about the last two years.

I'll grant that two bookstores in northern Delaware may not be a representative sampling, but I've never seen a 'whited' copy there.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Steve Mayo on February 02, 2007, 08:32:54 AM
got mine from amazon last fall and it has no SS numbers listed....


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: LostArt on February 02, 2007, 08:35:48 AM
I got mine for Christmas and it includes the SS numbers.  I think it was purchased through Amazon.


Title: Re: Badman question
Post by: Wilsonista on February 02, 2007, 09:04:18 AM
The new sitcom "Knights of Prosperity" (where Joe Blows try and rob celebrities) would have a field day with the Badman fiasco, if it was known outside of BB fandom that is.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Amanda Hart on May 10, 2008, 09:05:53 AM
I have an SSN whited out copy that was published in 2004.

My biggest problem with this book are the little things.  It's really annoying how almost all the names of the college towns where the band played are wrong.  Michigan State is in East Lansing and there is no such town called Notre Dame, Indiana and those are the two I can think of off the top of my head.  I know he isn't from the U.S but you would think someone down the line would have caught stuff like that.  Also one thing that bothers me is there is no real index, this book is a good reference but I wanted to look up something I thought I had read in it the other day and I had to search all through the thing.

So aside from those a little annoying errors overall it is a pretty cool book.  Nothing else like it exists in the BB catalog of books and it was an easy read and a good reference material, also there are good pictures. Thus, I would recommend it.



Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Lady on January 11, 2009, 03:17:06 AM
A fantastic book!

If you want to know what the BB were up to at any given point in time, you can just open this book and you’ll know.  Aside from the relatively few inaccuracies that are consistently pointed out, I think this book should more aptly be called an encyclopedia for all the correct information it does in fact contain.

This book lays the foundation of information for BB super fans to build upon.  One of the BB books you definitely must own.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Ian on January 11, 2009, 09:29:11 AM
Without getting into a whole conversation-let me just say this...three years ago I bought the book and thought it was fantastic. Being a historian, I began checking old papers just for fun-I soon discovered to my chagrin that the book was literally riddled with inaccurate data-from wrong dates of shows, to wrong venues, to shows listed as 1966 that were 1965, etc....I became friends with AGD-an esteemed poster at all the BB boards and together we created a section at his website called tours/sessions (http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs.html)...For each year-compare the dates to Badman's book and you'll see all the problems....for every change and I do mean every change-I possess either the original concert ad or a review. We also added hundreds of shows not listed by him.....So, it is a really nicely designed book with tons of cool stuff in it....but when it comes to dates and exact accuracy....not really.   I couldn't do what I did without his book as a starting point...but I am less and less impressed by his research methods everyday.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Aegir on January 11, 2009, 05:01:55 PM
I will never read this book just because of all the bad things I've heard on this site and others.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: mikeyj on January 11, 2009, 07:52:40 PM
I will never read this book just because of all the bad things I've heard on this site and others.

I think it's worth having... firstly it has some excellent photos and AFM sheets... but most importantly, I think it's really valuable for those people who don't have every article on the band, every concert review, every album review etc.. that's what I like about the book. It goes through and has quotes and reviews that I don't own elsewhere. I mean honestly, if I read a really cool quote from Carl and Badman says the interview was done in 1974 yet it was really done in 1973, while that is annoying I don't think it matters THAT much... I mean I still got enjoyment out of reading the quote.

I'm not downplaying Ian's research because I (and probably just about everyone who is crazy enough to post on a message board like this) really do appreciate his and AGD's work, and of course C-man's research and just anyone who can uncover what really happened is doing us all a service. But my point is, I just think this book gets a bit of unfair scrutiny.. yes, criticize it for having so many incorrect dates and missed shows etc.. BUT at the same time isn't the most important thing the content? I mean I hear people say "I don't care that Heroes And Villains has so many errors, I like reading it"... well shouldn't it be the same for this book? It is still an enjoyable read, but you just have to keep in mind that there are mistakes (just like EVERY book)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Ian on January 11, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
I one hundred percent agree with you-it is worth buying for the content...tons of great info from NME, Disc & music Echo, etc-which would cost quite a bit to collect on your own (and I should know because I have....)-so ignore the date errors and buy it...the most lavish and full Beach Boy book that is likely to be published in the forseeable future...Honestly...it bothers me that they weren't in Fort Wayne when he says that they were...but I don't think many non-fanatics are losing sleep over the errors...


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 23, 2009, 11:05:04 AM
I will never read this book just because of all the bad things I've heard on this site and others.

I think it's worth having... firstly it has some excellent photos and AFM sheets... but most importantly, I think it's really valuable for those people who don't have every article on the band, every concert review, every album review etc.. that's what I like about the book. It goes through and has quotes and reviews that I don't own elsewhere. I mean honestly, if I read a really cool quote from Carl and Badman says the interview was done in 1974 yet it was really done in 1973, while that is annoying I don't think it matters THAT much... I mean I still got enjoyment out of reading the quote.

I'm not downplaying Ian's research because I (and probably just about everyone who is crazy enough to post on a message board like this) really do appreciate his and AGD's work, and of course C-man's research and just anyone who can uncover what really happened is doing us all a service. But my point is, I just think this book gets a bit of unfair scrutiny.. yes, criticize it for having so many incorrect dates and missed shows etc.. BUT at the same time isn't the most important thing the content? I mean I hear people say "I don't care that Heroes And Villains has so many errors, I like reading it"... well shouldn't it be the same for this book? It is still an enjoyable read, but you just have to keep in mind that there are mistakes (just like EVERY book)

My problems with the book are...

1 - the inaccuracies and misreadings of AFM sheets...

2 - the uncredited use of other authors work and research: at a rough estimate about 30% of the text is not Badman's...

3 - the printing of the SS numbers of living persons.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Paulos on November 13, 2009, 05:10:03 AM
I got this book last week off ebay for the very reasonable price of £7.50 and I am enjoying reading it in spite off all the errors. What bothers me isn't just the factual errors but the printing errors, eg titles that should be in bold or italic suddenly change to normal text etc, does no-one employ proof readers anymore?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Paulos on December 07, 2009, 09:29:41 AM
I have now finished this book and must say that it is a great example of a good idea poorly executed. The errors just become incredibly irritating after a while (I wasn't very far into the book when I made my first post) and the contradictions that occur, sometimes on the same page, are just unacceptable.

Another thing I cannot understand is why all the years up to and including 1976 are very detailed and then he just kind of gives in from 1977 onwards and gives brief overviews, some of which are terrible. I mean for the 1998 entry he doesn't even mention Endless Harmony! I feel like their are a lot of people on this board and the SDV2 board who could have done a far, far better job than Badman.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on December 12, 2009, 01:50:34 AM
Another thing I cannot understand is why all the years up to and including 1976 are very detailed and then he just kind of gives in from 1977 onwards and gives brief overviews, some of which are terrible. I mean for the 1998 entry he doesn't even mention Endless Harmony! I feel like their are a lot of people on this board and the SDV2 board who could have done a far, far better job than Badman.

What Badman & his researchers actually did post-1976 was to pull info from my timeline and reprint it almost verbatim, mostly.

And yes, my 1998 page does mention Endless Harmony.  ;D


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Paulos on December 13, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Sue them Andrew! I do wish you and John had done this book instead of Badman as then it would be a vital reference for any BB/BW fan, instead it's merely nice to have.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and
Post by: Ganz Allein on December 13, 2009, 06:54:07 AM

My problems with the book are...

1 - the inaccuracies and misreadings of AFM sheets...

2 - the uncredited use of other authors work and research: at a rough estimate about 30% of the text is not Badman's...

3 - the printing of the SS numbers of living persons.

Hi, I'm Brian. I'm Al. I'm Bruce. And I'm Mike. We're the Beach Boys!  We're here to prove just how safe your identity would be with Lifelock. Have you read Keith Badman's book? Those are our real social security numbers on many of those pages.   :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXANhTH_oSo


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on February 21, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
A great, fantastically designed and superbly laid-out book. This book has helped me track down numerous unreleased tracks... 'Telephone Backgrounds On A Clear Day'. Man, I gotta hear that before i die!


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: punkinhead on July 26, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
Can we make a list of mistakes made by this book ? I was telling someone about the many mistakes but couldn't remember what they were


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: John Stivaktas on December 26, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
I got this as a Christmas present and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I can accept the criticisms listed here as valid, but for me, I appreciate the information on the early Warners years from late 1969 to 1973. The Pet Sounds/SMiLE research was good too but I've read plenty of information on that period elsewhere!


Title: Re: The Beach Boys: The Definitive Diary of America's Greatest Band on Stage and in
Post by: metal flake paint on December 26, 2013, 10:39:47 PM
Can we make a list of mistakes made by this book ? I was telling someone about the many mistakes but couldn't remember what they were

Although it might be more practical to list the information that is correct ;D

A good place to start would be at Bellagio 10452 where the mistakes in Badman's book are noted.


Title: Becoming the Beach Boys: 1961-1963
Post by: PrayForSurf on August 22, 2015, 02:58:47 PM
Coming Soon ~

NEW Beach Boys Book • New Podcast with the author

The Book  ~  They were almost The Pendletones—after the Pendleton wool shirts favored on chilly nights at the beach—then The Surfers, before being named The Beach Boys. But what separated them from every other teenage garage band with no musical training? They had raw talent, persistence and a wellspring of creativity that launched them on a legendary career now in its sixth decade.

Following the musical vision of Brian Wilson, the Beach Boys blended ethereal vocal harmonies, searing electric guitars and lush arrangements into one of the most distinctive sounds in the history of popular music. Drawing on original interviews and newly uncovered documents, this book untangles the band’s convoluted early history and tells the story of how five boys from California formed America’s greatest rock ’n’ roll band.
The Author ~ James B. Murphy is a companion animal veterinarian in Washington, D.C. He lives in Bowie, Maryland. 

COMING SOON!
Exclusive live interview with James B. Murphy

Phil Miglioratti and Jim Murphy discuss his lifelong love of the Beach Boys and his almost decade long research and writing that have resulted in one of the most thoroughly documented books on the critical people, places, and events in the launching and stardom of American's favorite band.

Sample question  ~  Twenty-four chronological chapters, a nineteen page Coda devoted to examining the Hite Morgan Tapes, a dozen Appendices (including the floor plan of CANDIX Enterprises!), twenty-one pages of chapter footnotes (a whopping total of 1005 to be exact) five pages of bibliography (including Hawthorne High yearbooks plus audio-radio-video programs) and an exhaustive Index, all adding up to 422 pages of bordering on fine print sized font lettering! ...   Jim, describe your process of finding source material, identifying eye-witness or real-time persons to interview and how you found them. It looks to me that this back-story may be almost as interesting as the insights you gleaned from the people and the archival material.

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