The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was listening to Abbey Road the other day, and if "Because" wasn't influenced by the Beach Boys I don't know what was.  It sounds like the Beatles' answer to "Our Prayer".

That got me thinking about Wilson and the BBs influence on the Beatles.  Pet Sounds pulling sway on Sgt Pepper is well documented.  Also pretty well know is "Here, There and Everywhere" being an early answer to Pet Sounds.  I came up with an unscientific list of Beatles songs that were, or very well could have been influenced by the BB's or at least were covering the same territory.

"You Know My Name, Look Up The Number"--didn't come out until 70' but was recorded during Pepper sessions.  It is a series of variation on the same thing.  Recorded in sections. Lots of chants.  Very Brian Wilson.

"Lady Madonna"--The Beatles suddenly take an R&B turn following the release of Wild Honey.

"Hey Bulldog"--from same time frame.  Baroque pop gone, R&B in.  Brian was there first.

"Back In The USSR"--for obvious reasons.

"Happy Birthday Mike Love"--from India songs.  Not much of a song.

"Happiness is a Warm Gun"--Three unique song sections hooked together (though recorded all at once I believe).

Smile--John and Yoko film of John smiling for 50 minutes.  Might be a stretch to say there was an influence but I have heard it mentioned before.

Get Back Project--stripped down, back to basics, R&B.  Again, Wild Honey.  If anything Brian felt the urge first and covered this territory over a year before the Beatles.

Abbey Road Project--in general a continued focus on R&B.  Trippy music is gone, experimentation is pretty much gone.

"Because"--as mentioned above.  Could be a BBs outtake.  We think of Paul as the one who followed Brian, but I think John payed attention too.

"I Want You She's So Heavy"--recorded in sections, multi-movement.  I know it is a bit of a stretch.

The connected end of Abbey Road--Pretty much a whole side of connected little songs, with a few themes reprising later on.  I wonder who had that idea in 66?

Phil Spector--called in to fix up the Get Back sessions, produced a very wall-of-sound triple album for Harrison.  Lennon's Spector work is not very Spector-like at all until Imagine.

What am I missing?

I will tell you the two moments I think of Beach Boys the most is on the Anthology LP's (yes I said LP's and I mean it). The early Eight Days A Week and Got To Get You Into My Life are so Beach Boys drenched that I think they really felt they had to be changed.

Damen und Herren....seine Hoffman-thread. :)

I love the BBs.  But other than "Back in the USSR" I just don't buy it.  I doubt The Beatles ever heard Wild Honey other than Darlin.

I hear a lot of Beach Boys influence on "Penny Lane," mostly in the melodic bass line.  Macca has stated that he was influenced by Brian's bass writing on Pet Sounds, and I've always found the influence particularly evident on that track.

If we can go post-Beatles, the first Wings album, Wildlife, is very Brian-like.  Just like the post-Smile Brian of Wild Honey and Friends, lowering the expectations everyone had of a masterpiece, playing loose music with friends and family, happy now, after a period of perfectionism, to leave flaws in as part of the charm.  The lyrics simplified but the songwriting still strong, with gorgeous chord changes.  But Paul's concept of what the band Wings was about was soon to change and to go in a very un-Brian direction.

I don't know, there's "Wild Honey Pie" on the Beatles follow-up White Album.  :-D

George Harrison once stated that the singing on "Paperback Writer" and the more complicated productions with double tracked backing vocals hard to sing on stage from the Pre-Pepper era were BB-influenced.

Anyone ever noticed "Waaater...Cool, clear water...waaaaater" in Lennon's 1974 song "Old Dirty Road"???

wat

I'm of the belief that Paul McCartney has a secret collection of everything Brian Wilson ever conceived and put to tape. You think Paul would go from oozing over Pet Sounds to never buying one of their records ever again? C'mon, that's absurd. Besides, Paul is the kind of guy who you just KNOW would be groovin' all over Wild Honey. It's probably his "Be My Baby" - as soon as he wakes up he turns on the album.

Also... much is made of Brian's "slice of life" songs ...... hasn't anyone heard Paul's first solo record?

They were still very big in the U.K. They had a lot more influence there.

"Damen und Herren....seine Hoffman-thread."

Can you imagine.  You'd be flamed to hell!

I've often thought the same thing regarding Our Prayer and you have to wonder whether Lennon had heard it but I think it's probably just a coincidence. I think the primary influence on that song was Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. I'm sure the story is that Yoko asked him to write something similar. I think heroin also plays a large part in the blissed out nature of Beacuse. It's one of my favourite Beatles tracks - I was listening to it whilst driving in the sunshine the other day - incredible stuff.

I don't think Lennon was inspired to write Because by the Beach Boys. I think that the vocal arrangment, which is probably as much McCartney and Martin definitely is though. Ditto Sun King.

I also think that Lady Madonna is VERY Wild Honey inspired. Not so much "Hey Bulldog"

I always thought that Getting Better has a sort of 'Look" vibe to it.

"Wild Honey Pie" is not Beach Boys like, but the title is.

McCartney's bass playing very Brian Wilson.

I definitely DO think that McCartney in particular was influenced by Brian Wilson.

However it's a bit overplayed. I think McCartney (and the Beatles)was influenced by a LOT of contemporary artists--that's almost what makes him McCartney, when  you think about it. It's not as if he's a BW rip-off artist...he rips off nearly everybody and synthesizes the influences into something new.

Buddhahat, I have to disagree about heroin being a hidden influence in Because. God, what a beautiful song, though, innit?

I think Macca was always Brian rather than BB's influenced. And the band made no attempt to downplay Brian's absence during 68-70, so i think the influence kind of stopped after Pet Sounds - Maybe he just didn't like Wild Honey?

I actually plagiarised that idea from the same place I read that Because was influenced by Beethoven. Might have been Mojo or something. Anyway, all the references to being turned on and general mouth agape at the beauty of nature vibe make it feel like a drug song to me and I suppose as his drug of choice at that point was heroin, it's a logical conclusion. Does feel pretty smacked out in it's wooziness, and there's a certain icy detachment to the whole thing. Regardless it is indeed stunning. In fact the whole of side 2 of Abbey Road is completely stunning. I think the album often gets maligned by rock snobs because it has Maxwell's Silver Hammer on it but frankly I think AR haters have cloth for brains.

I agree.  Abbey Road is a masterwork.  Not as ground breaking as something like Revolver or Pepper, but the work of seasoned masters.  I too have thought Getting Better off of Pepper has a Look vibe.  If there was ever evidence of the Beatles hearing Smile acetates, I think Getting Better would be it.

I also agree that the Beatles were being influenced by all sorts of artists, obviously not just BW.  But I think the way rock history has been written over glorifies the Beatles as this completely original fountain of great art.  In fact, what they excelled at was paying attention to what everyone else was doing and then taking it a step further.  I think that is true for BW's influence on the group.

As with everything concerning the Nurk Twins, there's cross-pollination.  But Macca freely admits the Brian influence, see the Barry Miles bio.  Paul was always interested in what Brian was up to.  The only other artist the Beatles "watched" and took cues from was Bob Dylan, who influenced John especially.   George, of course, brought Ravi Shankar and Indian Music along.  But that's it. Nobody else.  The Rolling Stones were chums and all, but the Beatles never followed anything they (or anyone else) did on their side of the pond.

I always thought that George Harrison's late 60s song had a late 60s BB feel. I also heard that he was a fan of the BBs at the time.

Documents related to the "Priore of SMiLE-on" have been recently discovered that show that Phil Spector was the "grand master" from 1962-1968. It is quite possible that Phil Spector promised unreleased Brian tapes to the Beatles in in exchange for "producer rights" on "Let It Be" - giving Paul full access to Brian's 'creative thought process'. 

Derek Taylor's involvement with the "Priore of SMiLE-on" has not be clarified as of yet.  However, he did try to get "Opus Dei and the Knights" (A retro-50's band that dressed as monks) signed to Apple in 1968 - which can possibly point to his involvement in this conspiracy.

 :lol ::)

i've noticed the same thing. haven't done a back to back comparison and am going by my memory here, but the bass line in the verses of Penny Lane is very simllar to the chorus of "Here Today". and again, bass leading into the choruses of both are similar. i've read the Beatles actually discussed who was going to rip off this line, that riff,etc. when hearing Pet Sounds.  i'm not a Beatles fan....

Wouldn't both be inspired by that old country song of the same name?

Yes I think Penny Lane is very BB influenced. I also find Your Mother Should know has a very Pet Sounds vibe. Not sure what it is about it - maybe the melody reminds me of God Only Knows.

The Fool on The Hill also has a prominent bass harmonica sound which reminds of Beach Boys, but I guess lots of artists use the bass harmonica so it's not a definite.

You know, first, I think their R'n'B-sound is likely because they started as a rock'n'roll-cover-band and played alot of R'n'B.
But I always wondered how likely it is that they were influenced by "Wild honey" and the direction Brian and the BBs went into. How well was WH received in the UK ? What about other (big) musicians? I heard WH was Jim Morrison's favorite album, so there could definitely be an influence. 

What everybody fails to mention is that the backing vocals on McCartney's RAM album are almost a homage to SUNFLOWER. It always boggles my mind that McCartney never namechecks that. The first four McCartney albums were directly inspired -- in vibe, if not musically -- by WILD HONEY and FRIENDS.

That said, although many on this board would love to believe that Lennon had his ears glued to what Brian Wilson was doing in the '60s -- he wasn't.  Not in the least.

Awesome. I'm glad to see someone giving love to Wildlife. It's one of my favorite Beatles solo albums, for all the reasons you pointed out.

Compare HIAWG to "She's Goin' Bald". Very similar approach of parodying several music genres, then stitching them together into a single song.

starting with Smiley Smile, the approach of having little or no reverb seems to have been a new thing then, which the Beatles subsequently starting doing also. i'm sure it goes both ways at times but i do think the Beatles took a lot of ideas more often from the BB's records rather than vice versa.
also, i think it was Smiley Smile, not Wild Honey that Morrison stated really digging. but i could be wrong.

i remember reading in 'the Beatles Unreleased' book that PM's Back Seat of my Car was a very BW like song...and I agree

I'm almost certain Paul was influenced by the BB with that song...great one btw...

Paul brought that song to the "Get Back" sessions and the other Beatles commented that it had a very "Beach Boys vibe" to it.  They were planning to work on it but never got around to it.

I've heard the bootlegs of Paul performing a rough version of the song on piano, presumably during those very same sessions, and it TOTALLY sounds like a Brian Wilson song, even moreso than the finished version that appeared on RAM.

Thanks to YouTube, you can judge for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDXTNHmO8w&feature=related

yeah, it sounds like he sat around listening to IJWMFTT for a few hours before writing it.

Certainly. "Cool Water" by Sons Of The Pioneers.
"All day I face the barren waste without the taste of water...", perhaps that's why the CCW demo was titled "All Day" ?


Macca's "Another Day" always reminds me of "Busy Doin' Nothing".

this discussion kind of makes me sad that late 60s paul and late 60s brian didnt team up and do an entire album together or something.

imagine: paul and linda, brian and marilyn, the beach boys' voices and musical talents... that wouldve been great

brian and paul alternating piano/bass duties and vocals, smoking lots of paul's grass, marilyn and linda on kitchen duties...   :-D

Yeah, around 1:00 min you can hear someone saying "Beach Boys"

Still I wonder how much it was influenced by the "Pet sounds"-era stuff or the WH/Friends-style

Sounds more Today/Pet Sounds to me than WH/Friends (neither of which really have ballad-like songs like this).

Besides, around 1:30 when Paul is doing percussive noises with his mouth, it has a very Brian Wilson feel to it, like the drums on IJWMFTT, and then Paul's low voice sounds like he's hearing Mike Love or Dennis in his head.

Cheers for posting - love that song

Thanks so much for that Beatles demo.  I had never heard it before and I thought I had heard just about everything from the Get Back sessions.  VERY Brian Wilson.  I think Brian (along with guys like Paul Simon) was very much in Paul's head in 69.  When I heard Friends for the first time I thought "this sounds like a Paul McCartney record," but really it is Ram, Wild Life, Red Rose Speed Way and Band On The Run sounding like a Beach Boys record.  "Blue Bird" off of Band On The Run could be a Friends outtake.  Plus, the pastoral aspects of Wild Honey and Friends show up in McCartney and Ram.  Call me crazy but I see it.  It's not just wishful thinking. 

I too thought for sure there was no way Lennon had Brian and the BB's on his radar.  But these days I'm not so sure.  Those high flying harmonies in "Because", there is just no trace of that in Beatles music post 1964 (with songs like "Yes it Is" and "This Boy").  Standard thinking would be that Lennon was just too cool to dig the BB's, but he had a softer side that he kept guarded.

My impression--and I think I may have read it somewhere but it's possible that I'm just deducing it based on solo work-- was that those harmonies in Because were more a McCartney thing. Yeah, the basic melody and chords were John's, but the harmonies were largely McCartney/Martin's arrangement, probably with feedback and help from John and George.

I'd Love Just Once to See You has a sound and vibe that is echoed in lots of McCartney's acoustic things for the white album.  And his later solo albums.

The backing vocals on  Here comes the sun sound BB inspired to me (doobe doobe?).

I think so too.

But what about "Flying"? I think it sounds like a "Fall breaks" or even more like a "Passing by". Compare yourself:

Passing by
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXz3N3RGEtw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXz3N3RGEtw)

Fall breaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-kid344Acg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-kid344Acg)

Flying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqs83A_wN-Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqs83A_wN-Y)

This thread and the Lennon-Lonely sea-discussion made me wander if there was a pre-Pet Sounds-influence of the BBs on the Beatles. "Back in the USSR" for example clearly is inspired by the BB's earlier work and not by Pet Sounds. Then we got a Lennon-quote about "The little girl I once knew" and the possibility of him playing "Lonely sea". But what else?Did the Beatles even bother listening to the Beach Boys? After all they were one of the biggest groups in the world...