The Smiley Smile Message Board

How does Mike write music if he doesn't know how to play anything?  I know he often times is just a collaborator, but there are "Mike Love songs" out there...

As far as I know, he usually just came up with some good hooks (suggesting them as Brian played demos).

He's been the frontman of one of the largest bands of all time for the past 40 years... he probably just has a good understanding of basic music theory, although he doesn't play any instruments.  He's probably been in the studio while hundreds of songs were recorded and picked up simple chord progressions and such along the way. 

I always figured he'd just sing the melody to Carl or somebody, and Carl would transcribe the chords charts.  No knowledge of theory necessary!

I have little to no knowledge of theory, and yet have written/recorded over 1000 songs in 5 years, so it certainly is possible.

The songs off the top of my head that Mike wrote by himself : Everyone's in love with you, Big Sur, Brian's Back, and Sumahama...right?

...and Let The Wind Blow, at least partially.

I've seen pictures of him playing the guitar before.. and he does play the saxophone.

Before I could play the guitar, I would sing the song to one of my friends who would try to come up with the chords for it.. but it was always a double-composer-credit (not like it matters when you're not selling anything, but still).

If he really did learn the Sax in high school or something (I'm not sure if he knows how to play or it was just a joke for a recording session? Don't think I know the song he plays it on), then he would have the ability to read sheet music and therefore easily know enough to make a basic song.  I think it's transposed, though, isn't it, or is a Sax a "C" instrument?

The song is 'Shutdown' - Mike's sax part is a minimalist classic.

You don't need to know theory to write a song.

He also played the sax live.  There is a killer version of What'd I Say from Sydney where Mike wails away; it is simply the best live track done by the original 5 that has survived.  Had he been serious about that, he could have made a great impact on the BB live sound.  If only...

Intriguing. I haven't heard that. Does he play more than two notes?

He wails, man.

Tenor/Soprano Sax = B flat instruments
Alto/Bari Sax = A flat instruments
 8)

I guess I just mean, I can whip up a little melody just singing to myself, but if I was going to write a full song, it seems as though I'd want to be able to play either a piano or a guitar to do so.  For example, when Brian talks about writing "Surfer Girl" he says he was in his car.  I remember somebody in an interview asking him how he did so without a piano, and he responded that he was playing the piano in his head, or something along those lines.  I just have to imagine it'd be immensley more productive to have those skills to create a rhythm to build a melody around.

its easy, all u have to do is find a genius once in a life time type songwriter and be around. mike love isnt great and he isnt bad, he was just there

Alto saxes are actually Eb instruments, and that sax solo on shut down is horrifying. They gave Mike the job of playing two notes and he barely could pull it off.

I really like Gettin Hungry on SS and that is Mikes voice. Also love him on Funky Pretty. Mike is rely cool when he buys into the song, but his Axl Rose like ego sometimes hurt the band.

I think Mike Love was essential because he was.  I know that sounds odd, but, stick with me...this is equivalent to pontificating The Beatles without Ringo.  Sure, Mr. Starkey won the lottery by getting to be in a group that is, in general, lauded as The Greatest Band of All Time...but that doesn't mean he was NOT essential --- because he was!  I mean, Ringo wrote a couple songs on his own (presumably) and, though they are simple in composition, they are Beatles songs.  Same thing with Mike Love...his hook suggestions for the Beach Boys' songs are remembered by anyone who hears them.

Regardless of talent or lack thereof, it was the chemistry, or a collision (however you want to classify it) of the ideas, personalities, style and sound of performing...the very beings of the individual members together.

I know this doesn't settle anything about his writing...oh, well...

...how 'bout that sax solo he so expertly executed on "Kokomo"?!?  ;)

 ;) That wasn't him.

Ooh, really?  Well, look at that!  That wasn't him!  Sure!  And I'm the Magical Man from Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Laaaane!  (Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic!)

I don't really see the correlation between Ringo and Mike.  I think Paul's grandfather from "A Hard Day's Night" would be more analagous.  Besides, they're both bald.

Mike's contribution to the Beach Boys legacy would have been far, far greater if at any point he had agreed to let them spank his head like the little guy on Benny Hill.  That "Endless Summer" TV show would be going into its nineteenth season about now.

Actually, it was a session musician that played the saxophone solo on the Kokomo recording.

And I think the band changed with Mike Love. When he was clean cut and shirt-tucked, the band had that feeling as well. His beard sprung up right around the point where the band was becoming more mature. He went to transcendental meditation camp in India and came back with a long beard and a robe, and the Beach Boys became effed-up hippies. When he started becoming more conservative again in his older age, the band returned to "feel good, fun-in-the-sun" music.

Also, I like his singing, most of the time.

I don't even agree with the Ringo/Mike point... because in my opinion, they both were very talented.  I think it's a slight to say that Ringo didn't have much talent (when he clearly did, as a drummer!) and I think it's a slight to say that Mike didn't have any talent (which he clearly had, as a singer, frontman, live performer, lyricist).  Although it's easy to say Mike wasn't that talented when you stand him next to a genius like Brian Wilson... in reality, Mike Love has written or co-written some of the best-loved music of all time.  That's not an exxageration or opinion, it's the truth.  There's also certain moments that stand up against pretty much any music before or after, the lyrics to "Warmth of the Sun" are what we usually point at to say "Look, he's f'in GOOD". 

Mikes voice was essential to their early sound, his bass harmonies approach incredible on certain tracks, and the audiences enjoyed him and still do to this day, even though he clearly is nowhere near as good as he once was.  Mike's an asshole, but he's also a legend.

Ringo is so cool for so many reasons I don't even have to mention them, you can just feel 'em.  LOL. 

The comparison of Ringo and Mike was made as an example of what some people erroneously regard as "dispensible members".  I certainly don't think that, but it is a perception: at the time, quite a few fans thought The Beatles were better with Pete Best ("Ringo Never, Pete Best Forever".)  It doesn't mean they were right.  Seems to be a similar line in this thread about Mike.  He added considerably to the group.

Aegir: I know it wasn't Mike on the sax.  Why else would I quote Homer Simpson? :)  And I agree, to point: he made himself the flagship member as the group went into the 70s/80s/etc.  I mean, he was the only member I knew about, simply because of "Full House".  Brian who?

Ron: When did I say Ringo and Mike were not talented?  The general opinion is that Ringo is The World's Luckiest Drummer - does that mean I think he "didn't have much talent"?  No...in fact, I agree with you on Ringo's coolness.  (That's probably why The Beatles chose him for their drummer; compared to Pete Best, he was a breath of fresh air in a stuffy room.)  The general opinion on Mike is that he just happened to be a. Brian's cousin b. hanging around.  That is a general opinion.  I didn't say he "didn't have any talent".  To say I agree wholeheartedly with the above theories is to shortchange the members.  Each guy brought something to the table that made the group and made the songs.  So, I said all that to say this: the reports of their expendability are greatly exaggerated.

yeah, he was there. thats all, he was bringing them down until the whole smile thing.  in fact hes probably the perfect guy for all the commercial stuff, if you look at the two sides of beach boys music.

HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean the Beach Boys had a period when they were uncommercial?

A very interesting point.


Agree completely. 

Agree completely. 

I'll say it again, to run this point into the ground: I think they are both talented...talent wasn't exactly the focus of the Ringo/Mike comparison.  Think of it like this, and this was not written by me, but I happened to find it on Google about 1 second ago:

"If George Harrison was one of the luckiest individuals on Earth to find himself sandwiched between the likes of John Lennon and Paul McCartney, then Ringo damn well won the lottery. Ringo's simple, yet distinctive style of drumming may have rounded out the Beatles' sound nicely but, let's face it, he was somewhat disposable."

I don't agree that he is disposable, but this guy is being honest.  Who would you say compares to Ringo in The Beach Boys, in terms of disposability?  Just sending this up the flagpole to see who wants to burn it.

Have your band try to cover "Ticket To Ride" and then tell me Ringo was disposable.  "Strawberry Fields"..."Rain"...as McCartney has often said, there was no dead wood in that band. 

People who think he needed to be Ginger Baker or Gene Krupa or Keith Moon or whoever, and George needed to be Clapton or Hendrix or Django Reinhart or whoever, just don't get the Beatles.  Any of those guys would have been poor substitutes for Ringo or George, who brought exactly what was needed (before the Supergroup mentality took over).

Well in terms of musicianship I would say all of them, Brian used studio musicians on a lot of the recordings and I don't think anybody could tell the difference.

Søren

Surfer Joe: I agree with you totally that he was not disposable.  But, I'm going to shoot myself in the foot here: guess who came up with the "Ticket To Ride" drum pattern?  Paul.  The point, though, is who (grudgingly, from what I've read) executed it so well?  Ringo!  Aw, yes, he was essential.

i think it wouldve been best if mike love and brian wilson just parted ways and both did what they did best. brian was heading in another direction, mike love was heading in his own equally weird direction.   does anyone else agree that not parks, not love, but manson couldve been the best collaborator for brian wilson.  is there any connection between smiley smiles release and manson?

Charles Manson HATED Brian Wilson. In fact, Brian was on his hitlist.

Any reason why? I know that Charles recorded in Brians house for several weeks. Sometimes just with Brian.

I believe Manson told an interviewer that he hated Brian. I'm going on a shakier-than-usual memory. But maybe a Mansonaholic in here can help out.

Nope. Manson came a couple of years later.

Couple of years? Try nine months.

You rang?

Manson supposedly claimed that he wanted to kill Brian Wilson, true or false, Ian?

They kind of did part ways and do what they did best.  Brian ate birthday cake, Mike toured the schight out of the world.

well i was kidding about manson, i have the song that he wrote somewhere on my comp, i cant remember the name of it

You know, the more than a rumour is that Manson had a hand in up to three Beach Boys songs, I think.

So what's the third one? Celebrate The News?

I don't remember now, but Celebrate the News has always , to me, had an odd air of Manson to it, not lyrically, but in the phrasing of the melody or something.

Never Learn Not To Love, Be With Me, and Celebrate the News are the three Dennis tunes that Manson actually wrote or co-wrote.

Yeah, there it is.

I knew Paul worked up Ringo's part there, and many of George's parts were specifically directed as well.  Maybe both our points are made at once.  Did Ringo not execute that part as well as somebody else might have?  To me he always sounds beyond great (and so does George).  Brian directed most of what Hal Blaine played.  Could someone else have done it better?  Actually, both Hal Blaine and Ringo brought a consistent sound, professionalism, and personality to the recordings they drummed on.

I've always said: listen to any Beatles cover and the drums are where they miss.  There's never as much thought or design as the original had.  The same would be true for Beach Boys covers, except they're going to miss in a lot more areas as well.

I've read most of what there is on Manson, and I never encountered anything notable about him and Brian except for the stories about the recording session at the house and Marilyn's reaction to it.  I've never heard of Brian being on any list, but I'm not saying he wasn't.  That's also the first I've heard about "Celebrate" or "Be With Me", though that's perfectly credible.  What's the source?

I happened to meet Chuck Britz years ago, and my big regret later was not asking him about Manson.