The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=164308

Jesus, what's the feck!ng point? I've already got about a thousand different version of Pet Sounds AND I'M NOT BUYING ANY MORE.

Right.

What about releasing that Surf's Up DVD-A instead?

The point is that if you don't have the DCC mono Pet sounds - the best CD version of it to date - now you won't have to pay $75 to $125 for it.  Just get the new Audio Fidelity release. 

I have an original pressing of the original Pet Sounds vinyl lp on Capitol Records that is in excellent condition.

I have 2 good turntables connected to a nice amplifier and some excellent old book shelf speakers.


Or I can listen to the box set and a couple of other releases.  That is quite a bit of variety.


I just wish I could get some improved mixes from the Beatles!!!

Wow, I can see the fanboys on the Hoffman board drizzling over the graphic representaions of the sound waves already...

What's the point indeed!  I've been happy with my Linett stereo mix since I first bought it nearly 10 years ago ( I somehow missed out on the boxed set).   And I may go to audiophile hell for saying so, but I am not impressed with every single mastering that Mr. Hoffman has put out.  That's just me, and I don't mean any disrespect to SH.

Pass...

i for one like that box set. kinda fond of it, esp the credits in long book that comes with the set.....  ;D

You gotta excuse me for going on somewhat of a rant, but I'm a little tired of reading over and over that the DCC edition of Pet Sounds is the ultimate version.  No it's not!  It's not in stereo!  And if mono is your preference, then what is wrong with Brian's original mastering?

Arg!

As long as you realize there's a few mistakes in it...for instance, it's Dennis playing drums on "That's Not Me" (not Hal), and there's no proof that it's Glen Campbell on 12-string & Carol on bass on that cut, other than Carol's very suspect memory.  But yeah, it was the first full accounting of musicians for those sessions that hit the public domain, and it was very welcome.  Nice packaging design, too.

was kinda meaning the "non musicians" section......  ;D

First of all IT IS the ultimate CD version. The mastering is the best of all the mono CDversions.
Secondly, it is the ultimate CD version because it is in its' original 1966 mono mix. The stereo version is not how the album was meant to be heard.
Finally, Brian Wilson never actually mastered any of his albums, I think you'll find no music artist masters their own music.

The cool thing about the DCC (and this upcoming release) is that it is as close to the master tape prepared by Chuck and Brian as you can get - NO EQ was applied, this is how the Pet Sounds master would sound if you were in the control room listening to the final mix on the master with Brian.  And were using the same studio speakers.  And the master tape is now gone, so there won't be another mastering of the tape.

I don't see what's wrong with the HDCD mono version in the box set or the stereo-mono single CD version.

Plus, isn't the problem that the original mono master tape has gone missing (though did I hear that an east-coast based "safety" remains?), so that the most recent 40th anniversary mono set had to be done off the last best known digital copy they had?   Again, no knock on Mr. Hoffman, but why would this be any better?

+1  The DCC is the ultimate vinyl release too.

Honestly, if you're not hearing that, I strongly suspect it's because your system isn't good enough.  I have an awful old Technics direct drive turntable and the DCC sounds dark and muddy on it while the CATP version sounds fine.  But what happens when I play them on my nice VPI?  The DCC comes alive and is far and away the better sounding record.  I hate to play that card, but it is the truth.   

What happened to the Pet Sounds master tape?

Are you using the exact same cartridge in both turntables?  In my experience, the cartridge used can make a very significantly larger difference in playback sound than the turntable.

No one knows.  Here's a brief history of the Pet Sounds master tape:

Brian and Chuck assemble the master tape April 1966. Brian sends the master to Capitol's LA office. There a copy is made and sent to New York for use in East Coast vinyl pressings. The Brian LA master is used for West Coast vinyl pressings. When the rights to Pet Sounds and the post PS albums goes to Reprise, the LA master goes to Reprise where it is used for the So Tough/Pet Sounds 2fer (Mark Linett believes a copy was sent to Reprise, but Steve Hoffman has said the original master was at Reprise).  According to Steve, at Reprise Wouldn't It Be Nice suffers tape damage making it unusable - WIBN on the Reprise albums may be from the LA tape, and the damage occurred subsequent or concurrent with mastering the LP, or it's possible that Reprise damaged it before it could transfer the track and they had to use the NY tape as a source. When rights revert back to Capitol, the tape returns to Capitol, and WIBN is replaced by a copy of the New York tape WIBN (an aside – perhaps this WIBN IS the New York tape version, and a copy was substituted into the NY tape master?)

The LA master is used when Mark Linett makes the digital master in 1987 for the first Capitol CD release, except for WIBN. The 1990 release (as usual in Beach Boys world, a long delay) used No Noise heavily, re-EQ'd the master and in order to keep hiss down spliced in many of the intros from new mono mix downs of the multitracks.

The DCC release of PS used the same LA master in 1991 (“they lent it to us for about two hours, we made one digital and one analogue transfer and the tape was messenger-ed back to Capitol”), but used no noise reduction, and according to Steve Hoffman was a “flat” transfer with heavy bass intact. Steve: “I decided to do a flat transfer of Pet Sounds; disconnecting all of the mastering equipment, including the console. It would be the only flat mastering of the mono mix in recorded history. (Every other version of that darn album be it LP, domestic and foreign, 45, Juke Box, EP, Cassette, 8-Track, Open Reel, Compact Disc, Hi-Rez, stereo remix, mono remaster, WHATEVER, has been tweaked in some way or another). Really, on a great system, the original "fairy dust" mono mix doesn't need tweaking at all. It needs leaving alone. It is a little bass heavy, but so be it.”   Steve used “an ATR-100 electronic assembly modified with one Telefunken 12AX7 with a Studer A-80 transport.”

For the DCC the NY tape was used for WIBN (a new transfer) and the train & dogs bit.  Apparently the train and dogs ending was damaged or in some other way not as suitable as the NY tape version.  No splicing in from the multitracks. At the time a 30 ips flat transfer analogue copy of the reels was made and that was used to cut the DCC LP that came out a few years later. The DCC CD was released in 1993.

The master tape goes missing from the Capitol vault around 1992.

The 1993 Good Vibrations box set used the NY tape, without any noise reduction according to Mark Linett, in a 20 bit transfer.    Some intros mixed from the multitracks are spliced in.

Cut to the remaster for the Pet Sounds Sessions box set in Nov 1997 (done in Jan-Feb 1996 but release delayed by Mr. Love). Again, the NY tape, and possibly with some intros still spliced in although more hiss is evident on several of the intros (a good thing).  No noise reduction per Mark.  An ATR-100 was used and tube electronics. This was a 24 bit HDCD master. This was the master used for the subsequent stereo/mono combined releases. The first mono/stereo version used the same 24 bit HDCD master but according to Mark it was re-equalised (by Andrew Sandoval), thereby ruining the HDCD encoding, even though the disc would still trigger HDCD players.  This version was pulled at the request of Mark Linett and Brian & Melinda, and the 2001 version, with proper HDCD encoding was issued. This version replaced Brian on the bridge of the stereo WIBN with a flown in mock stereo version of the mono Mike Love sung bridge, done largely (according to Mark) because radio stations had been using the stereo version from the boxset with Brian in the bridge (I can only imagine how Mike Love reacted to that!).

For the DVD Pet Sounds, Mark went back to the mono NY tape and remastered it in 96K/24 bit.

For the 40th anniversary release, Mark used a 16 bit digital copy of the master tape made in 1987 in preparation for the first Pet Sounds CD.  I think this may be the worst sounding version of the mono Pet Sounds, whether it be the 1987 digital technology, the state of the digital tape, or the mastering of this version.  I much prefer the P S box set NY tape version, and, of course, the DCC.

Most audiophiles believe that the Carl and the Passions/Pet Sounds 2fer is the best sounding mono vinyl representation of the album - the original Capitol pressings were noisy and poorly EQ'd.  And the DCC vinyl, which I haven't heard.

I'm confused with the logic here!   As far as I am concerned, the original Capitol vinyl release is how Pet Sounds was meant to be heard.  Period.  Any difference in mastering or changing of the format is messing with history.  So if you're gonna do that, then you might as well go full bore and have it in stereo.  I have no problem with keeping with the times. 

No.  The cartridge in the VPI would be wasted on the Technics.  Lousy direct drive table, lousy arm, etc.  The different parts of a system have to be compatible and have to have synergy.  It all makes a difference, as does your preamp, amp, interconnects and even the size of the room.

Concerning the Capitol Pet Sounds vinyl release being how the recording was meant to be heard, it's important to remember that Brian and Chuck Britz had no control over the vinyl mastering EQ decisions made by the Capitol engineers.  And, if you have ever heard vinyl pressings of the same record done at different pressing plants, you will discover that the EQ and mastering volume level applied by the engineers can sometimes differ from pressing plant to pressing plant, not to mention that fact the different pressing plants didn't always receive the same generational copy of a master tape.

And, back in 1966, while some copies of Pet Sounds were sold in mono, most were sold in Duophonic, Capitol's version of fake stereo.  In 1966, mono albums were quickly fading in popularity, and were basically gone from the market within two years.  (For those of you not around in 1966, most albums were released in both mono and stereo, with the stereo version commanding up to a dollar price premium, but with stereo significantly outselling mono.  45 rpm singles, on the other hand, were almost always only pressed in mono at that time.)

My original 1966 vinyl copy of Pet Sounds was pressed in Duophonic, whereby Capitol engineers mucked with the EQ and phase of the original mono recording to simulate stereo.  To quote the album's back cover:  "This Capitol Duophonic Record is deigned for stereo phonographs.  Duophonic is an exclusive electronic development designed to enrich irreplaceable monophonic high-fidelity recordings that have proven their lasting popularity.  It brings these classic performances a brilliant new two channel sound that takes full advantage of the reproduction characteristics of today's finest stereo phonographs."

Duophonic definitely added a sense of space and broader soundstage to mono recordings, and in some cases it could be argued that the listening experience was somewhat enhanced because of that.  But, the altered phasing created a sonic experience very different from the original mono master.  The Duophonic process also altered the EQ, with one channel carrying mostly the midrange and treble sounds, and the other carrying mostly the bass and very high treble sounds.  This does give a pseudo-stereo effect, but unless the listener is carefully centered between the two speakers, the resulting sound will be tilted toward the EQ of the speaker the listener is closest to.  (The worst  electronically simulated stereo was done by RCA's engineers, with tons of artificial reverb.) 

I personally didn't get the opportunity to hear Pet Sounds in true mono until 6 years after its release, when it appeared on the CATPST/PS Brother/Reprise vinyl two-fer, with the statement on the album, "This recording is pressed in monophonic sound, the way Brian cut it."  (However, I did have 7 of Pet Sound's 13 tracks on mono 45 rpm singles when CATPST/PS two-fer was released.)

But, to my ears anyway, much of Pet Sounds suffers by far from the worst recorded sound quality of all The Beach Boys albums, even worse than Wild Honey.  (Please note I'm talking about the sound quality of the much of the recording, not the quality of the recorded material!)  Overall, the album sounds very tinny to me, with way too much emphasis in the 2 to 4 KHz range (upper midrange and lower treble).  The modern day stereo remix has made significant improvements in this regard, but I've always been curious why much of Pet Sounds has what I consider to be a very irritating EQ - one found on no other Beach Boys recording.

Bicyclerider - Wow!  Thanks for the very interesting and detailed info!

1. Is that the Ron McMaster version from 1999 which was pulled?
2. Where do you THINK the master tape might be?
3. It is really interesting, but it wasn't necessary for the guy above to reproduce it in full!

According to Fred Vail, he was with Brian when the album was mastered at Capitol, and Brian gave instructions to the mastering engineer on the fly.

Yes, that is the 1999 version which was pulled.

I have no idea where the master tape is - it disappeared in 1992 at a time when archival releases and remasterings of old recordings on CD were in full swing, so I'd have to think it was stored in a secure place.  I also think in 1992 it would be unlikely to have been mislabelled or put in the wrong tape box.  That would lead me to think that a Capitol insider made off with it - but that's purely speculation.

Wow...worse than Wild Honey?! That's...wow. To my ears, WH has the worst sound of any of their albums as it just sounds too damn muddy. The tracks that have been remixed in stereo (whether legit release or boot) sound so much better.

Smiley Smile ain't much better.

Agreed on everything here except the original quote.  I've never felt that Pet Sounds suffered from poor sound quality.  I've just always felt that with all the layers of instrumentation and vocals, this album was crying out for stereo from the very beginning.  I just have difficulty understanding why so many people disqualify the stereo remix, because it is not historically correct.  If mono is your thing, what's so bad about the original mastering?

It sounds great in stereo. What sounds better in mono is the early, pre-today stuff. For some reason I like Surfin USA but the rest of that stuff sounds better in MOno.

You answered your own question.  There's also missing double tracked vocals, either Mike is missing from the WIBN bridge or distractingly flown in from the mono mix depending on which version you're hearing, and too much digital reverb for my taste.


Compression!  Besides, not everyone has access to vinyl and even if they did, why wouldn't they want the best sounding option?

A couple of comments, and a question:

"According to Steve, at Reprise Wouldn't It Be Nice suffers tape damage making it unusable - WIBN on the Reprise albums may be from the LA tape, and the damage occurred subsequent or concurrent with mastering the LP, or it's possible that Reprise damaged it before it could transfer the track and they had to use the NY tape as a source. When rights revert back to Capitol, the tape returns to Capitol, and WIBN is replaced by a copy of the New York tape WIBN (an aside – perhaps this WIBN IS the New York tape version, and a copy was substituted into the NY tape master?)"

I seem to remember Steve Hoffman making some comment to the effect that the version of WIBN he found on the tape in 1991 was a duophonic version that somebody spliced on there.  He went on to say that somebody remembered the  existence of the NY tape, and he ended up using that for the missing parts.

"For the DCC the NY tape was used for WIBN (a new transfer) and the train & dogs bit.  Apparently the train and dogs ending was damaged or in some other way not as suitable as the NY tape version.  No splicing in from the multitracks. At the time a 30 ips flat transfer analogue copy of the reels was made and that was used to cut the DCC LP that came out a few years later. The DCC CD was released in 1993."

Forgive my ignorance, but do these master tapes typically have a "side one" and "side two"?  If that were the case, it would make sense that WIBN (the beginning of side one) and the end of Caroline No (the end of side two) would occupy the same damaged area of tape.

"For the 40th anniversary release, Mark used a 16 bit digital copy of the master tape made in 1987 in preparation for the first Pet Sounds CD.  I think this may be the worst sounding version of the mono Pet Sounds, whether it be the 1987 digital technology, the state of the digital tape, or the mastering of this version.  I much prefer the P S box set NY tape version, and, of course, the DCC."

Interesting... I always thought the 40th anniversary was fairly good sounding, just in the fact that it seems to be almost a flat transfer, with plenty of hiss intact.

I am contemplating punctuating my right eardrum to hear it the way Brian hears it. Makes me the coolest BW nutter in the universe.

Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ. 

An original or safety LP master tape would be in one direction only, one-track mono or two-track stereo, on one or two reels depending on what speed the master was made at (7.5 ips, 15 ips, etc.).   That would not explain the damage reported in the quote to WIBN or the end of Caroline No.

My questions:  if there was a 30 ips analog tape copy made of the New York safety master for the DCC release, where is that?  Why wasn't it used for the 40th anniversary mono disc?  Is it proprietary to Mr. Hoffman?  Is it going to be used for this new super-duper transfer?

"My questions:  if there was a 30 ips analog tape copy made of the New York safety master for the DCC release, where is that?  Why wasn't it used for the 40th anniversary mono disc?  Is it proprietary to Mr. Hoffman?  Is it going to be used for this new super-duper transfer?"

Because it would belong to Mr. Hoffman - and either it or the digital copy made at the time would be the source of the new CD.

"I seem to remember Steve Hoffman making some comment to the effect that the version of WIBN he found on the tape in 1991 was a duophonic version that somebody spliced on there.  He went on to say that somebody remembered the  existence of the NY tape, and he ended up using that for the missing parts."

Yes, I do recall something about a duophonic WIBN being substituted on the master, but I don't have any archived quotes on that.

"Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ."

Yes, Mark has said that all versions of Pet Sounds have EQ'd the master tape, including the DCC - yet Steve has been insistent that his was a flat transfer, and has shared what equipment he used and how he did it.  Don't see the point in Steve lying about that - it's not like all he does is flat transfers - in fact, other than this one I don't know of any of his rock releases being flat transfers.  Fresh Cream, Wheels of Fire, the recent Forever Changes 70's mix, etc. were all EQ'd or tweaked in some way.  Steve has even mentioned that he sometimes wished he shaved off some of the bass (the master is bass heavy) in mastering Pet Sounds.  So I have to believe Steve.  Doesn't mean you have to like the flat transfer though.

"Interesting... I always thought the 40th anniversary was fairly good sounding, just in the fact that it seems to be almost a flat transfer, with plenty of hiss intact."

I found the 40th anniversary mono mix very harsh on my system, and fatiguing to listen to - in a head to head comparison with the PS box set mono (NY tape) and the DCC (LA tape) I found both of them to be far superior.  But that's just my ears, and my system.

My point, exactly!  Problem is, we just don't agree on which one sounds best!

Maybe this has already been covered, but is there any way to tell if a 1966 pressing of "Pet Sounds" was made from the L.A. or the N.Y. master?  For instance, by looking at the number stamped in the runout grooves?

Here are reposts of a couple of relevant postings, in case anyone missed or forgot them (interesting that a "bunch of bass" was shaved off, yet to some people's ears...not necessarily mine...the album still sounds "bass heavy"):

Question for AGD or Mark Linett or Brian Wilson RE: Pet Sounds
(posted by Maui_Brian_Fan on January 9, 2006)
Message:
In a recent thread at Steve Hoffmans website, someone asked where Brian Wilson mastered Pet Sounds. Steves reply was as follows: The album was mastered at Capitol, minus Brian Wilson, per the late John Kraus. PET SOUNDS was assembled and the ref cut at the Capitol Tower on 4/4/66 by E.F. (whoever he or she might be). The first set of parts were cut the next day (4/5/66) by E.F. and then another set was cut for the East Coast by W.T. on 4/19/66. On 4/7/66 a protection master was made (marked N.Y. copy). I can't read anything else on my Xerox copy of the original fact sheet, too faint, probably pencil lines, sorry. As for "LPI", EQ and limiter settings, that information is unfortunately lost to time. I can tell you that according to my ears, Mr. or Ms. E.F. added about 3 db at 5K to everything, shaved off a bunch of bass (probably 5 db off at 100 cycles) and filtered the top end at 10k. The limiter was set around "medium" with something like a crunching 2:1 ratio, typical for Capitol of the time. AGD, Mark, Brian, any idea's who E.F. or W.T. were?
WT was probably...
(posted by Andrew G. Doe on January 9, 2006)
Message:
... Wally Tragott (or Traugott), an engineer who, I think, worked on PET SOUNDS (it's late, I'm tired and just in from work, this is top of the head stuff). EF - I have no idea... but I'll do some sleuthing.

Oh...and didn't someone "in the know" post awhile back the assumption (or fact) that WIBN was pulled from one of the master tapes (either L.A. or N.Y.) so as to be used for the single release, and at that point it was replaced by the duophonic version?  Which, if it did indeed happen, would also have happened to GOK...unless it happened in the mid-'70s, when Reprise released a WIBN single (backed with Caroline, No...which could possibly be when THAT song's master was damaged, as well)...??

"Maybe this has already been covered, but is there any way to tell if a 1966 pressing of "Pet Sounds" was made from the L.A. or the N.Y. master?  For instance, by looking at the number stamped in the runout grooves?"

There is a way to tell the difference between an East Coast pressing and a West coast pressing.  HOWEVER, keep in mind, that if you carefully read Steve Hoffman's post you copied, you'll find that BOTH sets of parts were made off of the LA master, and then sent to each pressing plant.  The NY copy was simply used for safety, and put away for posterity.  It is basically what happened at the pressing plants that made the difference in sonic quality between the two pressings.  West Coast pressings have an asterisk etched in the trail-off.  East Coast pressings have the letters "IAM" in a triangle stamped in the trailoff.  West Coast pressings generally sound better than East Coast pressings, but they are made from the same master.


"Oh...and didn't someone "in the know" post awhile back the assumption (or fact) that WIBN was pulled from one of the master tapes (either L.A. or N.Y.) so as to be used for the single release, and at that point it was replaced by the duophonic version?  Which, if it did indeed happen, would also have happened to GOK...unless it happened in the mid-'70s, when Reprise released a WIBN single (backed with Caroline, No...which could possibly be when THAT song's master was damaged, as well)...??"

I know that Capitol used what they call "singles reels", where each single was assigned a number, and then added onto a spool of tape.  Therefore, you might have a Beach Boys single on a spool of tape that would have singles by a variety of other Capitol artists on it.  It's all based on the time the single was released... single number 5000, then 5001, then 5002, etc.  My impression is that these singles are copied off the (mono) LP mastertapes, but I'm not sure. 

As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair.

Another point... most of us have heard that "wrong" version of WIBN that was used on the Still Cruisin' album, and others.  I believe this was the result of WIBN missing off the Pet Sounds master tape.

"As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair."

So Brad Elliott's book is wrong about RPS 1336 ?

Interesting info, Shane.  Do you know if  the vinyl pressing parts for both the LA and Scranton, PA pressing plants were always made in LA?  Were tapes ever shipped to the Scranton, PA plant and then the vinyl pressing parts made there?  If so, did they always use the LA tape, or was the New York safety copy ever used?  Did Capitol ever enlist other (non-EMI owned) pressing plants, if needed, if their own plants were running at capacity?

And, most importantly, can you explain what factors cause west coast pressings to "generally sound better than east coast pressings," especially if they were made from basically similar parts?  Did the west coast plant use cleaner vinyl?  Were the east coast presses older and thus somehow generally made inferior records?

Mark is critical of every Beach Boys CD he wasn't personally involved in. To bolster his opinion more weight he often says "Brian didn't like that version" or "Brian didn't approve it".

Steve has admitted on his board that you can "shape" the sound of a recording being mastered through tube equipment without using EQ, by swapping out different brands of tubes in the equipment (referred to as "tube rolling").  For instance, Telefunken tubes could introduce a slightly different bass, midrange and treble presence into the mastering than RCA tubes or Sovtek tubes, etc.  That allows you to maintain a direct equipment chain in mastering, but still tweak the sound.

Lee

"As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair."

So Brad Elliott's book is wrong about RPS 1336 ?"


I stand corrected... to some extent.  I just checked my guide again.  Evidently Reprise had two different series of 45s.  Originally, God Only Knows was paired with Caroline, No in 1973 on Reprise 0102.  Then in 1975, WIBN/Caroline No was issued on 1336 as a reissue of sorts (with a different pairing than the original Reprise issue).  These dates, however, may not be 100% correct, as I have found errors in this book before (I'm using an older Goldmine guide for 45s).

Frankly, while I'm a record collector, I'm not too up on my Reprise 45rpm reissues of 1960s Beach Boys material because I hardly run across them.  Guess they didn't sell too well.


"Interesting info, Shane.  Do you know if  the vinyl pressing parts for both the LA and Scranton, PA pressing plants were always made in LA?  Were tapes ever shipped to the Scranton, PA plant and then the vinyl pressing parts made there?  If so, did they always use the LA tape, or was the New York safety copy ever used?  Did Capitol ever enlist other (non-EMI owned) pressing plants, if needed, if their own plants were running at capacity?"

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how the Scranton PA plant played into the Pet Sounds scenario.  I know other Capitol LPs were pressed there, but I'm not sure about Pet Sounds.  I've never seen a Scranton pressing of the album.  Capitol did contract pressings out to other non-EMI pressing plants, but I believe it was only in cases where they couldn't keep up with demand... for instance, there are Beatles records out there that were pressed by RCA for Capitol.  If I remember correctly, these LPs can be identified by a deep ring-shaped indentation underneath the label, about 3 inches in diameter.  45s will say "RCA" in the trail-off.

"And, most importantly, can you explain what factors cause west coast pressings to "generally sound better than east coast pressings," especially if they were made from basically similar parts?  Did the west coast plant use cleaner vinyl?  Were the east coast presses older and thus somehow generally made inferior records?"

All I can say is that the West Coast Capitol 1966 pressings of Pet Sounds have clearer, less "grainy" sound.  This may be due to a better transfer from making the metal parts, or possibly better stampers.  I know that stampers tend to degrade with use, but every West Coast copy I've ever heard has been consistently better than the East Coast copies.   

Not quarreling with any of the above, but do keep one additional factor in mind:  the sound of analog tape changes with age, no matter how well it's archived.   I have seen this happen enough (when music folk I know went to re-master their old stuff) to know it is not just an urban legend among engineers, or due to loss of high-frequency hearing in their aging ears.  So whether you apply analog or digital EQ, or do the "tube EQ" Mr. Hoffman uses, some treatment is necessary or the resulting new master will sound unnaturally dull.   This is why the CATP two-fer Pet Sounds is the best vinyl pressing: it was done with more care than the original, using a much younger master tape. *

*younger than now, of course - in 1973 it was only 7 years old

What Dr. Tim has to say is very true.  A teacher in college once told me that after about 80-100 years, the magnetic field on tape will theoretically break down to the point that the tape will begin to become blank.  The invention of magnetic tape isn't 100 years old yet, so we still have some time before that will show to be true in the real world or not.  I also heard of some sort of blank cassettes that were somewhat popular in the 1980s... I seem to remember they were the ones marketed as the "metal" variety of magnetic tape... supposedly those go blank after about 10 years.


While we're discussing Beach Boys master tapes, I wonder what exists or has been lost for some of the other 1960's Beach Boys albums.  I'm particularly curious about the Today album, as that is one of my favorites.  About 5 years ago, I saw the New York copy of the duophonic master for the Today album for sale on ebay... no joke!!  The auction was pulled after about two days, but I was smart enough to keep the seller's ebay ID handy.  Unfortunately, they refused to sell it to me because they were told it was illegal to do so.  Of course, I was trying to buy it with the idea in mind of getting that tape back into the right hands.   :angel:   ;D

Who knows where that tape is now.

So I just ordered this Steve Hoffman Gold CD from Amazon US:

http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Sounds-Beach-Boys/dp/B001KNUQ64/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239225710&sr=1-2

I have the release of Pet Sounds from a year or so ago, and The PS box. Am I wasting my money?

Is this Gold version worth shelling out for? I heard it's the best way to hear the album, short of seeking out the original vinyl, but if it doesn't sound much different from previous releases then I'd rather cancel my order and not waste the cash.

Anybody have any opinions on this?

odd.....i recorded many a beach boy show i went to on those metal tapes, most 25 years old or so, and they still play just fine.

Reading this old posting, I just had to reply.

When an album had been submitted to Capitol and a single was released from that LP (rather than the 45 being released first, Like Help Me Rhonda before Summer Days), Capitol would pull the LP master out, cut off the track, and return the LP master back either without that track or with a copy. That way, the single (which was way more important to them back then) would come from the master tape. Now, when you wanted to reconstitue the original LP with the original tapes, you pulled the single reels out and use them along with the rest of the LP master. But some one had "lost" WIBN within Cap's library so the East Coast safety copy was called for and delivered to the West Coast for the first CD release.

Now here is what I find interesting. In 1982 (Sunshine Dreams) and 1984 (Pet Sounds tape and LP), WIBN is in mono, and not a fold-over mono. So when exactly was the master reel lost? Also, WIBN released by Warners in the 70's was duophonic. SO who knows what happened there.

Bob

  You mean I have to go out and purchase another version of
  Pet Sounds ?
  I must own over 20 copies.
  I figured the Warm & Fuzzy was going
  to be the final release..........

  Dam!

 Outie

No, WIBN is mono on the Warners pressing.  There's two versions of the 80's green label capitol, one with WIBN in mono (presumably the NY tape) and one with it in duophonic.

Sorry. I meant the single. I was just litening to it. It was released at the time the song appeared in the movie Shampoo. The LP is in mono. But all PS tracks are in duo on the GV - Best Of The BB LP from Warners. Hell, all the mono tracks are.