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I've been reading about the circumstances of Dennis's death, and something doesn't seem right. From the time that he last dove in to the water, to when his body was found was a total of forty minutes. Don't you think that that's quite a long time? Also, everybody who was there seems to have gone off to check all the local bars. Why didn't somebody immediately jump into the water after a minute or so of waiting for Dennis to resurface? The thing that gets me is, what happened that last time Dennis went under? Is it that difficult to swim while drunk? I've never tried it(and don't plan to), but drowning in only twelve feet of water(according to a news broadcast) seems pretty hard to do, even if you're drunk. When Dennis's body was found, did he have any head wounds? I could understand it if he hit his head and was knocked unconscious.

Yes, especially in December. Alcohol speeds up body heat loss, among other effects.

I once read that 69% of all drowning accidents are alcohol related. So diving when you're drunk clearly isn't a smart thing to do.

12 feet of water is a hell of a lot once you start getting some in your lungs. Drunk people have drowned in puddles.

Hi Jay, 

You've posted before back in June about Dennis's body being buried at sea...

Do you have a theory about his death which you think might not have been investigated before?

You've got me curious!

Could it have been suicide?   



...or was it (cue spooky music)...MURDER?!
Mike Love drowned Dennis as revenge for hooking up with his daughter Shawn.
....just kidding :)


But seriously, was suicide ever ruled out as a cause of death?

I for one thought about this more than once. He hinted about how fast his life was on several occasions, and that, together with the state he'd brought himself in, made me think: I'll never see this guy with a pipe and in slippers at old age.
He might have had just the 'right' combination of heavy alcohol and pills within him to simply let go of it all whilst under water; and the fact that he was diving for memories of past glories only accentuates the possibility of suicide for me.

Denny's body showed no signs of struggling, his expression was calm, tranquil. You could call it suicide, you could call it bad judgment. I think he just decided it was time to let go and stop hurting all the time.

Beautifully put.

Had the Harmony already been pulled out of the water? Was he diving under and trying to swim into the boat to get stuff or was he just trying to find things on the ocean floor. Some of those last pictures of him looked pretty bad, he was starting to get that washed out look in his face that some serious alcoholics get. Sad story.

Didn't Jon Stebbins say that Dennis was found in the fetal position??? Like to know his source on that...

The Harmony hadn't been berthed there for some time - Dennis was diving where it used to be, and under The Emerald, retrieving stuff from the dock floor.

Pretty sure that came from the official report on Denny's death.

I would've loved to meet Dennis, even just for a brief moment such as an autograph signing or a handshake, or just a "Hey, Dennis I'm a huge fan!" "Thanks, hope you enjoyed the concert", or something like that. Unfortunately, I wasn't even born yet when he died.

According to Tom Noguchi's (the coroner at that time) report, Dennis had a bruise on his head. Maybe he tried to surface and hit his head on a piling rendering him unconscious. I read this in Dr. Noguchi's book Coroner At Large, published in 1985.

This is very strange.

I had had an argument with a dear friend many years ago about teh nature of Dennis' death.  She claims to have heard Brian on a radio show saying that Dennis took his own life. I said that was bullcrap, it was an accidental drowning. We both passed the argument off as teenaged bickering and forgot about it. And I never thought anything of it until many years later, I read a post that essntially what AGD just said: Dennis showed no signs of struggle and was found in a fetal position.

Did Brian ever actually say that? Looking back, I could easily imagine him saying something like that.

I have been under water, and "let go" for a few seconds. It's a very calm, peaceful feeling. Almost "spiritual". As much as this bothers me to say as a big Dennis fan, I could see Dennis "letting go" and waiting for that white light to take him away. To take him home.

Also, Brian back in 1985 apparently tried to do the same thing.

As sad as this will sound, maybe that was the most humane thing Dennis could have done to himself.

Whoever was with Dennis decided to look around all the local bars, and areas where Dennis might have gone to play a trick on whoever was with him(I forget who it was). If I would have been there, I would have jumped in after him, after two minutes or so of waiting. When somebody dives under water, and you don't see bubbles rise to the surface, something is very wrong. My whole point is, could Dennis's death have been prevented?

Prevented? Eh...more like "postponed". He was in a bad way, and to be honest, it was only a matter of time before something did him in.

Brian has said during a very recent interview that he never even knew Dennis released a solo album, which is of course complete nonsense. Sorry, but Brian is not a reliable source.

But...but...but...if Brian says it it just has to be true. :)

Does Brian know that Mike released a solo album? Should he hear it to confirm its brilliance?

If he hasn't heard it, he really should.  It's got "Be My Baby" on it    ;D

Brian played on that version....

Heh....remember the Endless Summer TV show the Beach Boys had in 1989? During one of the "campfire" segments:

BRIAN: What about "Be My Baby"?
MIKE: "Be My Baby?"????
BRIAN: You did it on your album.
MIKE: Uhhh...what album?
BRIAN: Looking Back With Love. You absolutely did it on your album. It was in the key of "A."
CARL: [strums an A chord]

[mind you, this is from memory, so this might not be verbatim, but it's pretty close.]

... and sang bvs, and produced the basic session.

From what I remember, Mike Love seemed like he did not exactly want to be reminded of that album. :D

The fetal positions story sounds like a pantload to me. Who supposedly saw him in this position, the divers who retrieved the body?

I prefer a good fable over grim reality anytime.

Mike was visibly cringing at the mention of LBWL.  Not exactly a glowing recommendation of the album.

Just answered your own question.

The fetal position could indicate that it wasn't suicide - it's the recommended position when you fall into cold water, as it slows down body heat loss. Most people do it instinctively.

What Noguchi's report fails to mention is that Dennis had been in a violent brawl the day before he died. He probably had more than one bruise on his head that had nothing to do with his drowning.

Another possibility is that Dennis blacked out under water...he'd been having seizures on and off over the prevous year, and blacking-out episodes.  But if that were the case, he probably wouldn't have looked so peaceful when found.  But then again...I would think it a natural, uncontrollable reaction to fight against drowning, meaning I wouldn't think it'd be that easy to "let go" and lie down in a peaceful position. 

I do know that when it happened, I wondered if he had "let go"...the last his companions saw of him, he was waving to them.  I thought, "Waving goodbye?".  I dunno.  Hal Blaine's convinced he hit his head.  Karen Lamm was convinced it was negligance or foul play.  The Occidental Life Insurance Company refused to pay because they considered it a possible suicide.  I guess only God knows, and Dennis, wherever is. 

As far as his friends running off to search the bars, I read that they did first jump in the water after him, but couldn't find him.  When the divers got there, it still took them something like twenty minutes. 

Until this thread, not only did I never read about the possibility of suicide, I never even THOUGHT about it. With young Gage, no....

I agree with the Sheriff. I like to think, in my mind, that he was so drunk, that in the end, it was peaceful, and he just let go....................................which is probably what we should do with this topic.

Honestly, I don't recall whether Dennis's death as a suicide ever occurred to me. But now that it did, I don't think I'll give it many more thoughts.

Very close ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ooltsYHGg

at 57 seconds. Brian also says he listened to the song a few times so guess he has heard (part) of the album.

I remember in the British Wouldn't It Be Nice documentary someone (Ed Roach?) saying that the theory was he hit his head on a cement dock coming up.

That was probably Hal.

Boy, that was tough when Carl came in for his leads on Kokomo. I had forgotten how much I missed him.

It was just Dennis' time, I guess. If it had been up to us, no. But it had always been up to him. He had been drowning himself for years, sadly.

I saw this a false modesty  -  and suspect that Brian was prompted to give the fact that Mike'd had a solo album a verbal plug.

So, pre-show rehearsals...:

Carl: So what songs are we gonna do this week guys?
Mike: well, we could do...
Brian: Be My Baby! We gotta do Be My Baby!
Mike: Okay Brian, great idea... I know, you can introduce it, tell the viewers it was on my album. I'll pretend to have forgotten about it, so they don't think I'm bigheaded or anything, cos I'd hate for them to think that. You know, a bit of "gee shucks guys..."
Brian: You done an album Mike? What was it called?
Mike: it was called Looking Back With Love - sh*t Brian, you even appeared on iut and produced bits!
Brian: never heard of it.
 :lol
etc etc etc

I wanted to post some photos that maybe no one has seen before. They're all public and etc. Very enlightening.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6466/dennisobit5ni2.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6466/dennisobit5ni2.jpg) <-- a very large obituary in a 1980's beach boys newsletter

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/50/deathcertdv6.jpg)
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4087/dc2jm7.jpg)
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4420/buriedatseawh7.jpg)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6954/image0012wn4.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6954/image0012wn4.jpg)

Has nothing to do with this thread but I'd like to mention something odd. I am reading Ron Wood's autobiography and he mentions that he met Bo Diddley in 1985 at some all star gig or whatever, and he wrote that Carl and Dennis were there too ... .  ::) 

In the book, "The Little Bird was Dennis" it states many clues left by the Beach Boys in the BB85 album, Kokamo and Summer in Paradise. For example, if you play Kokamo backwards you can here "Dennis is alive! Dennis is alive! Dennis is alive!"

They say that he faked his death and was replaced by an imposter (John Stamos)

Never heard of that book.

That must have been when he autographed that copy of the 1985 album that was on eBay a few years ago...

Of course. You are right. Now take two of the blue and three of the yellow pills, and go to bed.

Oh crap...I just realized that was supposed to be a Beatles joke. Durr....

I feel like a 'tard now.

 :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jujGZMS2vGY

Maybe this. However Ron's memory of meeting Dennis in 85 could be  :beer  clouded. ;)

I've never heard that before. Do you have any details on it?

I thought it was better known actually. Brian in his own words tried to commit suicide by drowning himself. That's been reported in a few places actually, and it was touched on in the Wilson Project book. Apparently Brian went into further detail in some interview, but honestly I've never read that interview or know too much more about it. If anybody else has a scan, or remembers more, now'd be a good time to post!

Brian was swimming in the Pacific, with Landy's goons watching him.  He apparently made a spur-of-the-moment decision to just keep swimming way out to sea until he couldn't anymore.  The goons soon realized what was up, hauled ass after him, and pulled him back in.  I'm sure he got a hell of a scolding, and probably reduced privliges for awhile. 

I read about it in Carlin's book. Remember reading that the handler or whoever turned his head for about a minute and when he looked back, BW was already a hundred meters out to sea, swimming as fast as he could.

Brian must've REALLY wanted to kill himself, being afraid of the water and all.

i have another question about dennis' death.
in that summer dreams movie he finds a picture frame at the bottom of the ocean.
now i naturally assumed this was bullshit for dramatic effect. but apparently the catch a wave book (which i am reading atm but am not up to dennis' death) says that something like this actually happened!
this can't be right, yeah?

Dennis was diving for items he'd thrown off Harmony during arguments with Karen, and yes, one of them was a silver framed photo of the two of them.

After that much time in the water what kind of shape would a photo be in? 

And how did it manage to stay in that same location???

One, the photo was pretty well faded.

Two, it was in a fairly solid frame.

That's what Hal Blaine told me too. He was on the marina that day though not with Dennis, and it was what was announced on the radio there.