The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brian is scheduled to appear on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno on Wednesday September 3rd.  Any guesses on what his song selection will be? 

I am going with "Good Kind of Love", though "Forever My Surfer Girl" would not surprise me.  Thr Venice Beach narrative would also be cool.

It's been announced as "Goin' Home," I believe.

Perfect song, as to me that would be the perfect choice as Brian really rocks on that one.

Yeah it is a good choice, probably the song mostly likely to catch the ear of the casual listener.

Not too much longer to wait...

Probyn rockin the Les Paul.

I was hoping at the end he would've said, "Happy Birthday, Al".... :police:

Brian sounded pretty good (except one bum note or two during the "Lucky Old Sun" intro), as did the band.  "Goin' Home" rocked just like the record.  It's like any other time Brian is on TV though...we all enjoy it, but the casual viewer who happens to catch his performance probably finds his movements to be quite bizarre and doesn't really focus on the music as a result.

Do you think casual viewers that are unfamiliar with his history notice things like that as much as we do though?

I liked it, they sounded great.

I missed it..DVR didn't record the whole show. Grrr....

I wouldn't be surprised if they do...you don't see other performers looking that uncomfortable and making odd gestures while singing.  I could be wrong, but I just think that if you don't know his history and aren't used to seeing him perform, someone watching might find the whole thing pretty odd.

They sure did sound great though, I'll agree with you there.  Good song choice I thought.

At the end of the daily ESPN sports talk show Pardon the Interruption (PTI) , Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon always close with their reccomended t.v. viewing for the evening.  Tony reccomended "Watch the genius Brian Wilson on Jay Leno".  Michael came back with "A genius? I thought Brian Wilson was a Beach Boy". Tony replied "What?  You can't be a Beach Boy & and a genius?".  Way to go Tony!!

Just read on the blueboard - it was Going Home.

Yes...a VERY sweet Gold Top.

You can watch the complete (if you want to put yourself through that) show on nbc.com---go to the tonight show and find the date---at least that's what they said during one of the commericals last night.  I thought his performance was too short.

The band seemed a lot livelier then I have seen them before, which is a good thing :)

I think casual viewers would think "who the hell is this old guy? why is he acting weird? what's with the gestures and facial expressions? He's weird." But hopefully they'd listen to the song, too, because I think it's a really good one that any rock 'n' roll fan can like.

You do realise that he was introduced as a founding member of the beach boys

So there would be no 'who the hell is this old guy'

No need to come across so harsh.

Yeah, nobody could possibly come in a second after that was said, for example. Or, in the case of young viewers, think "who are the Beach Boys?" I didn't mean anything harshly. I was saying what I think most casual viewers would think. Is this the blueboard? Am I going to be chased away by threats of "Brian is reading! You're hurting his feelings!"?

I've been biting my tongue about TLOS, the album, but Brian's TV appearances cannot be rationalized.

Brian Wilson is one of the few artists, whose TV appearances, intended to promote his albums and increase sales, in reality, produces the opposite effect. I can not envision many people viewing Brian's TV performances, dating all the way back to David Lettermen in 1988, saying, "Wow, that guy's great. I'm gonna buy that CD". Or, "What a great song. I want more of that". I think the reaction is entirely the opposite, except for the "freak show" factor, which attracts some, much like Brian's re-emergence in 1976.

Brian would be best served if he did no TV publicity.

Tony's a BIG Beach Boys. He's mentioned them before.

Also, he's a BU alum. GO BEARCATS!

I mostly agree. SJS and I tend to differ on most things, but I really don't think anyone who isn't already a fan, or who isn't interested in the back-story, or who isn't a bit of a sadist, really seeing live BW performances and thinking "yep, THAT GUY is the one I want to get into!" He isn't very good live, most of the time. And obviously, he's very, very awkward at best. It is with no disrespect to my favorite pop musician ever that I say there's a pretty good chance the band would have better success live among non-fans if he weren't there, and the group were fronted by Scott, Taylor, Darian, etc. In television, appearances count--quite possibly too much. The band is spot-on regardless of Brian, but he's shaky musically and a disaster (to a non-fan) visually. I can almost see Landy with the "smile!" placards off in the wings, the way he awkwardly busts out crazy grins here and there (between pointing at his head, his mouth, making an "I don't know!?" gesture and a few other ones). Before anyone comes down on my negativity, I repeat: Brian Wilson is my single favorite pop musician. Maybe favorite musician overall. I'd be thrilled to see him live with TLOS if he brings it this way. But if we're talking about winning over new fans, it's a tough road for him on television without some context.

I honestly think he sounded great (and I'm not blind to the fact that Brian has had his share of not so great sounding performances, so I'm not just saying "thats great" solely because it's Brian Wilson). Even my stepmom, who usually has little to no taste in good music, saw it and was impressed. There were even moments where I would swear it sounded like Brian 40 years ago. Anyway I'm so so happy for Brian. I think both he and the band were amazing and the entire album is incredible ;D


Oh, and what kids, even today, don't know who the Beach Boys are ??? lol     I certainly don't know any :)

I thought they sounded really good, too.

The band always sounds great. I thought Brian was a disaster.

The effect they went for, with "That Luck Old Sun" segueing into "Going Home" (a la "Our Prayer" into "Heroes And Villains", another idea recycled) was completely lost because Brian couldn't project vocally. Brian tried to sing "Going Home" almost entirely in a low register, which he is not good at; he seemed very unsure of himself. He couldn't keep up with the "At 25 I turned out the lights...." part. He was late coming with his "rock, roll, rollin' down the river" part. His hand gestures were all over the place; the cameramen had to do acrobatics to cut away from Brian to save him from embarrassment. Again, forced smiles, deer-in-the-headlights, never touched a piano key, same old stuff.

What was so great about this performance? Other than "Night Time" from Lettermen in 1988, I thought this was his worst.

A bit of honesty on TLOS and associated promotion on this board is like a breath of fresh air.  8)

Ah, it's the old "negativity is the only honesty" trick.

So the people who like it aren't being honest? Or not as honest as the people who do?

The only true Brian Wilson fan, you see, is someone contemptuous of Brian Wison.

I too was the letdown by Brian's performance--but I wouldn't call it a flop, it was just relentlessly average. Obviously, this is a fantastic and very catchy song, but Brian's voice was not in good form at all and his vocal mic could've had some tape echo to it-would've made up for a lot.

At first I thought Brian's performance was totally stiff, but when I rewatched it today it wasn't that bad, especially near the end on the fade, where Brian visibly loosens up. Still, he's a bad stage performaner on this cut, or at least is for a majority of the time, especially when he's on TV. (Obviously, this is still heads and shoulders above Mike Douglas or the SNL attrocities (by which I mean "Good Vibrations mainly")

But the thing that let me down was that the Live From Abbey Road performance was so good, seriously good as well, "Southern California" is a great song and was uplifted by a superb vocal performance. He's capable of good performances, but was suffering from stage-fright on "Goin' Home." Hope he does better next time.

Worse than Farm Aid '98? Last night wasn't a good night for Brian, but "worst ever" is a bit of a strecth.  But of course  I;m talking to the guy who wishes that Brian's album were Beach Boys albums,,,,

Rob...Damn right the Farm Aid 98 was worse. Hell, I'd rank that up with Long Beach 1981 for worst ever Brian performance, as at least back then he had an excuse.

Viewing it online right now. I'm so sick of that Friday's ad.

Ehh...not one of Brian's best performances. Great song choice, but he sang it way too reserved. If he'd have busted out his "Drive-in" style vocal, it would have been better.

I see what you mean but as far as making new fans goes, if his performance is a turnoff I'd wager TLOS just wouldn't work for them period.  Brian's a quirky guy.  That either pushes you away or, well, brings you here.  I don't think there's a lot of middle ground.

I really wonder sometimes just what Brian Wilson would have to do to please some people these days.

From the Pet Sounds tours, Smile tour (anyone in London that week will tell you how that went!) - then the Smile album, Glastonbury, TLOS tours (UK and Oz), assorted successful festivals and now this CD - which by and large has been very well received - and certain "fans" have knocked them mercilessly one after the other.

I just don't get it - what exactly do people expect at this stage of his life? - and if you don't like anything he does - don't watch it, buy it or go to the shows!

What strikes me as odd is that here and elsewhere, fandom seems to be defined as an all-or-nothing proposition. That's fucking ridiculous. I can like three of ten, seven of ten or ten of ten songs. It's irrelevant to number eleven. I don't find any particular "cool" factor in insulting Brian Wilson, or feel the need to kiss his ass. There are quite a few numbers between zero and 10. People's rankings of anything fill the spectrum. It isn't an insult to anyone. Sometimes boards are as bad as the dumbfuck convention that--thank gods--is finished up tonight across the river here. It's all "with us or against us" sh*t.

I don't think it's all or nothing at all.

I didn't watch the show because I've seen enough of Brian live on television, and he's seldom that great. It was once novel, and now it's not so unusual.

I just take issue with the attitude that because someone doesn't like something Brian does, that means they're "finally telling the truth" or "finally seeing through the hype." That's an attitude that excludes a lot of folks -- including those in the middle.

That being said, I think Luther has a point. Who knows if this will make anyone buy the album. Does Brian just seem too odd to put it over? That's certainly a legit question when an album like TLOS is aiming for mainstream success.

And Luther -- nice GOP reference . :-)

but how many copies will sell in Alaska? ;)

I just watched it on NBC.com... the intro was a little rough, but he sounded fine for the rest of it.  But most importantly - Brian SMILING?!  When was the last time we saw THAT?  :)

Whether or not it sells any CD's... well, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with others.  Now, this is coming from someone who is a hardcore Beach Boys fan and *gets* Brian,  and understands what he does, so be warned in advance - no... you know what, I won't.  I typed a whole spiel here, but I had to delete it.  As someone who has dealt with mental illness as well, I have no right to critique.

Can someone post a link to this video? I can't find it on NBC.com anywhere.

Gahh! Someone put it on youtube! NBC.com isn't letting me watch THAT episode because I am in the wrong country. However it did for some reason let me watch the one before with Russell Brand. Hmm, maybe it doesn't us foreigners watch the LAST one for some reason.

I think it's lovely that Brian goes on TV still. I know some untutored folks might look askance at him. I can sympathize with both sides of the argument. But sometimes the oddness or the context-missmatch is part of the delight for those of us who enjoy him. He's still there dammit! And broadly speaking, he seems pretty happy at the moment.

It's the MUSIC that matters. Putting aside how remarkable it is for him, at his age and the
wear and tear that he has been through, to produce work as good as TLOS, his modern
songwriting, so far, has not had the kind of universality and resonance with current mainstream audiences that would generate large sales figures or attract many new listeners.

If he could tap into that vein of magic again, his performance and personal awkwardness
would be largely irrelevant. TLOS is a great achievement for him, but it's not likely to lift the bar of his popularity much higher. His music has grown more iconoclastic over the years, and now has a simple, sunny optimism that, while unique, unfortunately has a somewhat limited appeal to the masses.

I have to agree with Sheriff JS.  Brian's TV performances are always uncomfortable to watch.  But I've often wondered why they don't work on his stage presence.  Everyone in the biz works on that to some extent.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just somethng simple.  Like keep the hands on the keyboard, glance at the keyboard once in a while as if actually playing,  return gaze to the audience.  Stop with the I'm a little teaapot gestures, Use broader gestures, something like a Paul Schaeffer arm in the air.  Move a little with the beat.

If Brittany Spears can be taught to sing AND dance, Ringo can front a band, and Tom Petty can do the Superbowl, surely Brian could be coached in how to enhance his stage presence and appearance just a little more.

Respectfully submitted,

Don

I just watched the show on the tonite sight ....just a little patience brings it right up.

Most of you have seen that old promo video of I Get Around from back in the day.  The band sitting around a woody tailgate without their instruments lipsynching the song.  Brian gestures pointing to his head (I'm a real cool head) and slides his fingers together as if flashing money (I'm makin real good bread)

Well, he's still doing that after all these years.  That part, is nothing new.  He needs to keep his hands busy someother way, playing a dead keyboard or something.

Just sayin.

I don't see how that's any different than Mike turning up the radio dial, doing the chicken dance, and whipping a horse in Fun, Fun, Fun.

It's unrealistic to expect BW to a) not look wooden on stage and b) suddenly have mainstream appeal. If you're waiting for these things to happen I think you're going to be a continually disappointed BW fan. I'm a fan of BW now purely because I'm interested to hear what beautiful, uplifiting melodies he's still capable of writing. After hearing TLOS and the bonus tracks I've been thrilled to find that I love about half of his new songs. To my ears he still has the same songwriting ability that he did in the late 80s (well, almost), which I find really exciting. Maybe for some that is nothing special but on this basis I am really eager to hear the next album if this current creative spree is enough to generate one.

Its a subtle difference I think...Mike looked like an idiot, Brian looks more disturbed, and not doing it on purpose.

Agreed.  I'll be frank:  at this stage of the game, Brian's voice isn't what I tune in to hear.  But these TV & concert set-ups make it seem as though that's the draw, and it ain't.  I'm just happy to see the guy, but then I'm a fan.  Give the guy a bass or a tambourine at the very least for God's sake!  His hand gestures are, I'm afraid, disturbing; it's like watching your lil' old Mom dance in her sitting chair when a good tune comes on...

Heck, even if Brian was playing the piano and singing by himself it would be an improvement. Keep in mind I'm just talking about for TV appearances. But if they had Brian & the piano turned to the side (so brian doesn't have to look directly at the audience) and Brian was just banging away on the piano & singing, it would be a 1000x imrprovement. When ever there's a documentary, or an interview piece, or anything like that, where Brian's singing & playing the piano, he sounds good 95% of the time.

Then again, anything beats his early solo appearances where he was just  mashing his hands against a turned off keyboard like a stroke victim.

Exactly.  Have him as part of his band, not the feature presentation itself.

I'm curious as to what the opinion of the board is to this wacky notion:

'That Lucky Old Sun' by Brian Wilson & the Douchebags (or whateva)
Songs by Brian Wilson, Scott Bennett and Van Dyke Parks
Produced by Brian Wilson & Scott Bennett
Arranged by Brian Wilson, Paul Von Mertens, Darian Sahahnaja and Scott Bennett

Would that make the album less than what it is already, i.e. a good album?

I know but that's unrealistic, whether you like it or not, Brian Wilson is, and needs to be, the focus. His band, however talented, are session musicians, not personalities, and nobody wants to watch session musicians. If he was to the side on a piano people would be wondering who they were watching. The fact is he is a casualty - that's part of the Brian Wilson brand. So he has to be the focus, warts and all. That's why every bit of publicity from his team stresses the 'he's been to hell and back' backstory - it pre-empts the inevitable "what the hell is wrong with this guy?" questions from the uninitiated.

Point well made, but would it really hurt?  As SJS suggested, his TV appearances aren't exactly of the "reel 'em in" variety.  A billing of Brian Wilson & the Wondermints might just (and justly) raise his backing band from the mere "session musician" status they are ascribed to that of "contributing members", thus becoming a minor draw themselves, and it would take the pressure off of a clearly uncomfortable BW.

Except that the band on TLOS includes only two Wondermints. And one part-timer. The other seven or so have nothing to do with that group.

So call'em Brian Wilson & the Douchebags...what's in a name anyway?

Compost, I'm totally with you. Totally. It would be an extremely long post to point out why Brian Wilson should not be a solo artist. And, most of the people don't want to read (or admit) it anyway. But it would improve some of the weak areas and present a more honest and truer product. But who cares about honesty anyway....

Absolutely.  Despite the protestations of others, BW was not the only talent in the Beach Boys era and still isn't in his current "solo" incarnation.  The greater talent absolutely, but not an exclusive holder of 'gifts', especially today.  No one can say Sahananja, Bennett et al don't know their ****.

Were Brian 2008 of the same calibre as Brian 1966, it wouldn't be an indication of naturally enduring genius, it'd be a friggin' miracle!  He's old!  It's like expecting Muhammad Ali to get back in the ring and lay the beats, and then being disappointed that he had his *** handed to him.  It's O.K. with me.  All this nonsensical pressure on him by his fans to be  that which he once was is ludicrous. 

He deserves to take collaborators or be a part of an ensemble if it means he gets to keep making and performing music.  And that shouldn't devalue the finished product. 

Here's the thing about those "disturbing" hand motions, and I realized this watching the Smile DVD...

Would it really be Brian without them?  I mean, he is the 'Adult Child' - his hand motions are just part of the charm of what he does.  They're not even random either, from what I can tell - he's either visually describing the lyrics, or conducting the band.  That'd be like telling Joe Cocker to stop that "stupid flailing thing" - it wouldn't be the same.

LEAVE BRIAN ALONE!  *sobs*

He didn't do them when he started touring. He fake played the piano.

Fans gave him sh*t -- rightfully so, perhaps. He was clearly not playing.

He did this for about a year. Then he started to do "conduct" the band during pieces of the Pet Sounds shows in 2000. Then he started to clap. And soon enough, he was doing the hand motions.

Believe it or not, fans at the time preferred them. I know I did.

But then they became increasingly elaborate -- and kinda strange. He's toned it down, actually -- I think they were at their worst aorund 02-04.

I think there are quite a few conversations going on here. To talk of fans, to ask "would it really be Brian?' is a different question altogether than what would a non-fan think. Speaking only for myself, my discussion of Brian's peculiarities within this thread related to what a non-fan catching him on Leno might think. It's a completely different thing than "what do you think?"

eh...I was thinking more along the lines of this project being either very good for some and very bad for others and I can't think of another Brian Wilson album, show, DVD or anything else in the last 5 years of me being on these message boards that has got such a diverse reaction. We have had reviews ranging from 1 out of 5 to 4 out of 5.

Here's another 4!

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2008/9/4/brian-wilsons-new-album-daring-nostalgic/

The posters on this site have been very tolerant in allowing those that like it to say so and those that don't to say so. Unlike some boards where Brian can do no wrong.

Isn't that what we are all here for? A bit of objectivity!

Good point, Luther. I think that the euphoria that a lot of people had when Brian returned to live performing (he did a whole show without running off the stage!) has led sometimes to him being put in a place where non-fans would see him as a curiousity. That is, he was willing and able to do shows -- but he was and is and will be somewhat odd. This is somewhat easier to deal with in live shows, where lengthy set lists and band energy can compensate for and (often) overcome his shortcomings. But on television, it's just difficult.

It's a conundrum, and I don't think Brian's folks have figured it out. They tried with the Christmas album to just have him lip sync on Leno -- that certainly sounded great, but Brian can't lip sync particularly accurately. The alternative, I suppose, is just not to have promotion. So ...

Not what I meant. I meant Brian out there by himself, singing and playing the piano. Like the SNL Good Vibrations performance, just not coked up.

I'd pay good money to see Brian on piano with Jeff plus maybe Billy in a small informal venue. Same format as the Jeff/ Billy shows I read about in the UK a few years back. Q and A session, requests and sing-a-long. Stories from long ago and new and old tunes.

No money in it but would be great for Brian to get close to his fans but in a way that would make him comfortable.

I said that two pages ago.

Why is it necessary for Brian to do TV appearances? Overcoming demons? Proving that he's "back"? Spreading those good vibrations to the world? Are they THAT desperate to sell albums? We like to mention or consider Brian in the same breath as a Dylan, McCartney, and other legends. And rightfully so, he belongs there. But not all of those artists feel the need to appear on late night TV, at 12:31 ET, singing their "next single", after stupid pet tricks. Unless they really enjoy it. Does Brian enjoy it?

Are you calling that little pianist kid "pet tricks"?  ;D

Hey, that kid was great, a real talent. I could say something but I better not....

Amen.

Dylan selling out to iTunes!
McCartney selling out to Starbucks!

Are they that desperate to sell albums?

In a word...yes.

You know what BriMel and Capitol should have done? Get Brian an iPod commercial. Going Home would be perfect for that, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKugEi4osdY

Jerry Lee Lewis (72 years old) carted onto the Letterman show to sell his latest album. He's a bona fide legend. But there he is.

So yes, artists do want to sell albums. And they perform to do that -- even artists who are old and unsteady looking.

Great idea. Hey, it worked for the Stones & "She's a rainbow" in that one commercial from a few years ago.

Thanks for the link, claymcc. Love the Killer! I thought you might bring out Ringo. Or Neil Diamond. Any recent Lou Reed or Leonard Cohen on TV? I saw Tony Bennett promoting that Duets album last year. And who can leave out Willie Nelson. We'll soon be seeing the Wichita Lineman.

Of course, none of them have anything to do with my point. Hey, I think it's great that those old guys are out there doing it. I've said many times, even on this board, that we take our legends for granted. I'm as sentimental as anyone; I was getting emotional the other night watching The Last Waltz! It's hard to believe that Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, and Jerry Lee Lewis are still alive - and some still performing! And even the younger ones like Dylan, McCartney, Ray Davies, Paul Simon, Eric Clapton, and Mike Love :P  As long as they are healthy enough to do it, WANT to do it, and have an audience out there to support them, I think they should continue. I saw Sinatra in concert when he was in his 70's and loved it. Heck, I'm still wishing Ray, Robby, and John would kiss and make up and record something together.

My point was that SOME legends don't feel it's necessary to appear on late night TV shows, and I wish BW was one of them. And I was questioning whether A) Brian's TV appearances do more harm than good, and B) Do you think he enjoys doing them?

And, of course, next week, after TLOS shoots up the album charts, I'll sign on my computer to read, "Hey SJS, so that Jay Leno appearance didn't do any good? What'd you know...." All these people, make me feel so alone.... :police:

Join the club.  I was pissed, but I should have thought and recorded the show after it as well to make sure.

Everybody's explanations are meant to minimalize Brian's role in whatever they do, i.e. share more of the singing with the rest of the band, etc. 

What would that accomplish?  do you actually think Brian is making music to please anybody?  at BEST he's trying to please Melinda (to paraphrase something I heard John Lennon say once).

I doubt he cares if the audience thought he moved strangely.  He's from Hawthorne.  The only people I've ever seen from Hawthorne are the various members of the group, and frankly everyone of them was pretty much a dork.  Telling Brian to stop waving his hands is like telling him to stop speaking out of the side of his mouth.  It's who he is.  There's no need to chance it, even to make the performance better, because he'd revert right back to it.

If you don't think it was a good performance, so what?  Do you honestly think if Brian worked his ass off and made every performance perfect, that he'd be any happier?  He might sell some more records, but the man doesn't need more cash.  He's critically acclaimed everytime he drops an album, he has millions of fans around the world, he's widely considered one of the greatest songwriters of all time... he really doesn't have anything to prove to anybody and has no ambition or desire to improve his vocal performance, or his stage mannerisms. 

I'm not saying you all have to enjoy it, I'm just saying it's about as good as it's going to get.  Everybody knows Brian's always been a basketcase, and some days are better than other.  Next time he's on t.v. he'll probably rock the entire song, this performance, he didn't. 

Watching a t.v. show then deciding Brian should rename his band to hide himself inside of it is the most idiotic thing I've heard since that fool above decided to throw politics into it. 

Easy big fella.
If this is in reference to my suggestion of a name change and more honest credit sharing, then first off, chill-out. 
My belief that he should rename his act stems from the glaring reality that he already is part of a band but is masquerading as a solo artist.  Check the credits of the album and then tell me that 'Additional Production' and 'Additional Arrangements' in small print doesn't seem a little dishonest. 
As for his performance on  Leno...he contributed about 1% of the total energy on stage.

Brian Wilson is the **** but his sales pitch sucks.

I repeat:

'That Lucky Old Sun' by Brian Wilson & the Douchebags (or whateva)
Songs by Brian Wilson, Scott Bennett and Van Dyke Parks
Produced by Brian Wilson & Scott Bennett
Arranged by Brian Wilson, Paul Von Mertens, Darian Sahahnaja and Scott Bennett

No harm in that!

I assume you mean me. If you're going to call me a fool, be an adult and use my name, speak to me directly. Don't make snide comments well after the post that apparently offended you so. Or better, learn to express yourself without intentionally and directly insulting people: "that's the most idiotic thing...," "that fool above," etc.

Watch it, guys. Let's keep this reasonably civil.

As a wise man once said, ;D

It was freaking cool seeing Bob lip synch to "Someday baby" in the iPod ad. And that album wound up being his biggest selling album in years.