The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hey guys,

This is my first topic here, but I've been lurking for a good while. I have a lot of interest in Brian during the years 1972-75. It find it interesting how much his musical sensibilities and voice changed. His appearance during this time also interests me. However, I've only found a handful of photos of this period (most of them from 72), so if anyone could post any they have, I would very much appreciate it.

I'd like to eventually make a photo montage of this period, if I do manage to do that I'll be sure to share it with you all.

Thanks!

Here are a number of them. The two where Brian is heavy and wearing a white shirt is summer 1975. The one where he is wearing a red shirt is spring 75. The Mickey Mouse shirt photo is from early 1972 (he hadn't put on weight yet). The one where he has long hair and a suede jacket is from summer 72. The one where he is drumming is from early 1973.

http://download.yousendit.com/ED82340B5D8B437A


He did change a lot and to me never seemed the same again. As late as fall of 1974 he still sounded the same as before. The first picture I saw him looking really changed was a pic with Jim Pewter from 74 and him holding the Endless sumer record in his pool also in 1974. There are plenty of 1974 pics in the Beach Boys 1975 tour book.

Thanks a ton for those. I had some of them, bu the info was very helpful.

I have two I'm a little unsure of the dates on.

I'm thinking 73 here:
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/wilson74.jpg)

And this one is supposedly 74. It pretty amazing how different it is from the former.
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/bri74.jpg)

Also, there's that pic in Peter's book of Brian playing baseball that's dated as 69, but he looks so heavy it looks more likely to be from 73ish. Does anyone know if he had a sudden weight gain then loss around 69?

The baseball was 68 and from 64-72 he would get a gut and loose it. Pretty quickly too. Check out Girls On The Beach and then Ed Suilvan to show you how early on he went up and down. Your first pic is 71 Carnie and Wendy are too little for 73 and his hair is too short. The second is from 74

Thanks again for the help.

Brian looked really thin and healthy around '69-'70.  Look at these pictures from around that era...

(http://www.vh1.com/sitewide/flipbooks/img/shows/i_married/carnie_wilson/cw_21.jpg)

(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9172/beachboys19he7.jpg)

I know, that's what so amazing about it.

Here he is in 68:

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/1968.jpg)

Then 69 he's really chubby.

And in 1970 he's about as slim as he ever was.

Murry died in the summer of 1973. Could the drastic weight gain and overall depression be attributed to that? His way of dealing with the pain. Another interesting weight gain is 1991 or so to his wedding in 1995.

That's a generally excepted theory for both Brian and Dennis' declines.

I still can't get over how crazy it would have been to see Brian in 74 with his 76 and on look, but with his old voice.

And does anyone have any pics of him in 74 mid beard growth?

The only thing I saw is the IJWMFTT doc had a home movie from I think early 74 or so where he looked hairstyle wise like the old Brian no beard but is huge. I am a picture buff and have really studied them.  From 61 to early 63 he was really thin. Mid 63-spring 64 a normal weight. Mid 64-mid 72 up and down but never truly skinny, or obese. Mid-72-early73 bigger then before maybe 250. Mid73-74 seemes to be a gap in photos. Mid 74-mid 76 very overweight. Mid 76-mid 78 in fairly decent shape especially around the early summer of 77. Mid 78-early79 very big again Early-mid 79 relatively normal. Mid 79-early 83 worst he ever looked bigger and bigger by the month. Mid83-through 1990 skinny as he was when the group first started. 1991-95 got heavier and heavier until by his wedding he was well over 250. Since 1996 it's been like 1964-72, big sometimes relatively slim others. I think those are his normal weight patterns being between 200-220.

I also think the change in Dennis is interesting. In 1974 he looked like a movie star by 1979 he was a wreck. I think 1977 was the turning point look at how he looks on POB compared to 15 Big Ones.

Again, I very much appreciate your help on this MBE. When you look at Dennis beardless in 75 he looks great, if he hadn't  grown the beard he probably would have looked even better through 77. And his change in voice is kind of like Brian's also. I was shocked to hear him speak on the 77 rehearsal and Endless Harmony River Song videos on YouTube, his speaking voice sounded normal even though his sing voice started sounding very raspy around then.

I'll definitely check out that vid in Times, sounds very interesting, maybe make a screen cap of it.

And here's another interesting one:
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/Copyof75.jpg)

The shorter beard seems to place it around early 74 perhaps?

I think his hair is too short for 74. 76-78 probably

I really like the black and white photo of him with the dark suede jacket. I've heard quite a few women say they thought he was quite handsome during the Surf's Up-Holland period. I think Dennis's downfall started when he shaved his POB beard for the POB promo tour. He did look pretty good in those Ed Roach photos from Hawaii mid 78.

Weighing in on Dennis I would say that in every photo through 73 he looks terrific. By 74-5 on most he looks great but a few show him looking a bit rougher I point out the new group photo included in Spirit Of America or the one on the back of the 1975 Good Vibrations comp. The first nine months of 1976 he looked pretty good. It's a more lived in look but mostly it worked. A few pics from then show him looking a bit hungover (the back of the John Tobler 1978 book) but again he looked ok. Last few months of 76 (I'm thinking the Love You cover) starting to look worn. The eyes look much dimmer. Not horrible yet but he was aging rapidly. 1977 I think a few pictures have him looking good and I actually think he looked decent without the beard but look at the cover of P.O.B. he looks really rough. A lot of the concert footage from around this time Central Park etc he looks beat. Not a complete mess but again he just looks older and older. In 1978 there he still looks semi together at times but is pretty strung out by then. He just looks like he is getting rather ill. 1979 well he looked horrible by then unwashed, drunk, totally untogether. Over the next four years he rarely looked anything approaching good. Once in a while he would take a decent photo or get a little cleaned up but I think it's terribly sad how poor he looked in the last years. The eyes again are what give it away. 

He looks great with Karen Lamm in those Peter Reum pictures. Pretty studly at Brian's 34th birthday party. And I am completely hetero, but I have to say he looks pretty Adonis-like on the P.O.B. cover. Got the whole Dionysusian shag thing going on. He looked an established young millionaire rock star (think the Ed Roach POB promo film). Man, I can smell the sinsemilia just looking at that cover shot. Cruising Pacfic Coast Highway in Ferrari Daytona.

Do you mean the ones of the New Years eve party included in Love You? Very good at Brian's party agreed. P.O.B. promo a little rough hewn but ok, but that cover to me he just looks dead in the eyes. "sinsemilia" more likely snow was falling.

Here's a nice group shot from around 1973:

(http://www.danaddington.com/denny/bbfrplce.jpg)

This is a good pic. I am almost positive, despite Keith Badman saying otherwise, that this is a 1974 shot at Caribou. In the 1975 tour book they are wearing these outfits at studio shots that I assume were done there. Also look at Al's hairline and Dennis slight roughness, not to mention the picture I included in the download of Brian from early 73 where he still looked like a slightly bigger version of his old self. Ricky and Blondie are gone too. Any more pics from this "lost" era would be GREAT.

Naw not snow, my own sinsemilia from back during my college days. The Karen/Dennis picture I was referring to appears in the Gaines' "Heroes & Villains" bio. Black & White, They are standing next to each other with the beach in the background. Might be a Peter Reum or Guy Webster photo (can't remember and I'm going from memory).

I always thought Dennis looked pretty dead in almost every photo from about 1980 onward ( actually from 82 or so onward after he cut his hair and beard and had the stubble and bloat).

Well heres some 75 ones:

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75g.jpg)

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75e.jpg)

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75h.jpg)

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75i.jpg)

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75j.jpg)

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/75d.jpg)

I was actually quite surprised to find so many for 75. I have much less luck with 73 or 74.

I think most of those are 76 once the 15 Big Ones sessions commenced.. the ones where he was REAL heavy are probably from Janurary. The few I know for certain are from 1975 were taken at the Anaheim show.

Oh I see. Yeah the pic in that book is nice. Probably from 1976

They all look really cool sitting in the patio (with the glass round table in front), especially Carl with the cool hair and shades. 8)

A lot of those Patio shots were used as Euro picture sleeves.

Looking at his hair length, general facial appearance, weight, and Dennis not having a beard, I'm pretty sure it's 75.

But I could be wrong.

Hey MBE, you think this pic from around the time of that 74 clip from Times you mentioned earlier?

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/74D.jpg)

Another interesting one:

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/73B.jpg)

One more:

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z140/MillerC_2007/Brian%20Wilson/71A.jpg)

Dennis didn't have a beard in early 76. I know this because some Ed Roach pictures of the 15 Big Ones sessions appeared in a 1976 magazine. I think it was called Modern Recording. Since they look identical to how they appear in the patio shots I assumed with Janurary marking Brian's return to the studio that they would be from then. I have seen a picture from that day in the Tim White book where Brian is posing by a Brian's back sign so that is why I am convinced of it being that year too. The first shot is a Smile one. Brian is just pulling a face. The second was taken in early 1968 around the time of the Stack O Tracks sessions the third is probably from 1971 I. It could be from late 1970 at the earliest, but early 72 at the latest.

Wow, I never would have guessed that first one was from around Smile. Crazy. It's quite amazing the knowledge you have of every era!

I fixed the other pic.

Saw it and remarked about it above in a modified post. I have worked with photos for my writing career for quite some time so I can pretty much tell you any picture within a year or so of when it was taken. In the Beach Boys case that I can do it fairly well but I am not so good at placing the photos since the break up.

MBE, you never cease to astonish me  :)

Thank you I am glad to help.

I took screencaps from the IJWMFTT doc, and I think they are sadly the most revealing of Brian's decline yet. I labeled them and you will see the basically normal even handsome Brian of 1971 turn into the Brian of late 73 who is starting to put on a massive amount of weight and is obviously starting to let his hygiene go. The 1975 pictures he looks so miserable and you can see by then he even stopped cutting his nails. This sequence of images has both fascinated and saddened me since I first saw them 12 years ago.
http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvTkZqb0IwVWswTVE9PQ

Thanks for those pics MBE. It is really sad. Sort of like watching the hero of a story starting to loose the fight... Only its real life.

MBE,

Could you repost these photos?  The file expired at You Send It.

I didn't stumble upon this thread until today and I'd be very interested in looking at these pictures.

I don't quite recall which ones I used. Did anyone here keep them together in one place? If you download the photos from my complete hardrive thread, they are in the 70s folder.

Glenn did you download my photo archive and find the pics? If not I will try to reupload some from that era.

...But in a lot of ways, he won in the end.  :)

I took screencaps from the IJWMFTT doc, and I think they are sadly the most revealing of Brian's decline yet. I labeled them and you will see the basically normal even handsome Brian of 1971 turn into the Brian of late 73 who is starting to put on a massive amount of weight and is obviously starting to let his hygiene go. The 1975 pictures he looks so miserable and you can see by then he even stopped cutting his nails. This sequence of images has both fascinated and saddened me since I first saw them 12 years ago.
http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJvTkZqb0IwVWswTVE9PQ


This don't work anymore. Please put this pic back up, I would love to see it.

Hi, I know this is kinda off of the 1972-1974 topic, but he looks really good in some very late 1976/1977 things, pretty thin actually. Look at the Love You insert by the dedication to Bri in the booklet, or also the rehearsal from late 1976 on youtube. Not bad at all. Really cool pics.

For Sherry
http://download.yousendit.com/2779F9A26EA7FCC5

Thank you so very much.

What did you think of them? I feel they are the most revealing set of pictures that chart Brian's rapid decline between 1972-75

I had to get off the computer but when i came back the yousendit download did not work for me, i tried 5 times, my comp is old and slow. I would love to see the pics.

Sad is what i felt looking into brian's eyes, was that a hotdog or sausage he was eating, he look very depressed. Thanks MBE, much greatful.

I think a bratwurst, I think in the 71 pics he looks pretty good but by 73 something is going wrong.

MBE,

Listening to  Brian's voice during the early 70's there is a substantial difference between say 71-72' (Surf's Up) and 75'-76' (15 Big Ones).  Was this intentional?  It has been said that Brian was at times somewhat embarrassed by his voice.  I recall hearing/reading somewhere that he wanted a more manly voice and that he intentionally smoked cigarettes by the packs per day to achieve this....not sure if this is true. 

I don't enjoy listening to 15 Big Ones in part because I am saddened by the abrupt change in his 'health' which as a listener hits you when you hear his voice on that record.  Same can be said for Dennis.  While they went on to make some decent records, to me, the Beach Boys would never be the same once Brian's voice changed...or at least they didn't sound the same.



 

Nothing was the same with brian at that time. His looks his voice, the way he looked into the camera, no more bright eyed cute smile, more like cold and dark. I would have liked to have been there to see this all taking place to know what he was really thinking and how his soul got so very lost.

Well I couldn't agree with you more on the vocal decline hurting later records. I think Dennis (at least until it gave out completely) was able to adjust better to it. His voice had been fairly low to start, and he ususally managed to stay on key. Brian didn't sing consistently well until the late 90's and even then it never was the same. How it happened for Dennis was a fist fight where he was punched in the throat. This took place sometime in 1974. A similar incident took place in 1981 which is when he lost his voice completely. While some say booze, coke , and cigarettes also hurt Dennis' voice, the big changes happened because of these two fights. I heard a December 1973 performance of Forever that is perfect and that is the last time he really sounded great to me. By the end of 1974 he was pretty raspy.  Brian did deliberately destroy his voice in 1975. Late 1974 recordings show him to be singing as well as ever. By Back Home which was recorded in late 1975 his voice was gone. Why did he do this? His friends say he just hated his voice and was really self destructive at the time. In other words he wasn't thinking straight and has had to pay for his actions over the last 32 years.

Interesting.  Was Brian a cigarette smoker before 1975?  Carl must have been a light smoker as he smoked most of his teenage and adult life and was able to maintain his vocals (although I think he too experienced some changes or range reductions in the early 70's and mid-late 80's).

What were the late 74' recordings you referred to?

My Holy Grail of unreleased stuff...

The November 1974 version of the never-been-bootlegged California Feeling. :o

I think Al said Brian was the last of the brothers to start smoking, but I know he did by 1964 because I have a picture of him and Roger Christian where you can see a pack in his pocket. I never heard California Feeling but understand Brian is still untainted vocally. Hard Times, and Child Of Winter are where I draw my conclusions from as well as a home recording of the Fairy Tale from either 73 or 74. Carl had lost some of the lightness in his voice by the mid 80's and while he could still sing well in the 90's his voice was a little cloudier.

I was just thinking about what a punch in the throat hard enough to make one lose their voice might possibly feel like. Ouch... I've once read about Dennis having his vocal chords operated on. If it ever really happened, which year was that?

He got punched in 74 and again in 81 probably by Steve or Stan Love in 74 and definitely by Stan and Rocky in 81. His friends say if he had rested his voice while it was healing (both times) it may have turned back to normal had he let it rest but he never did. I think the operation was in 1981.

It would be interesting to see a thread like this on Dennis.  :)

Do you mean pics showing him going from looking healthy to ill?

In Carlin's Catch A Wave, he mentions that Brian sang the high parts on a cover of Help Me Rhonda by Johnny Rivers.  This was the spring of 75'.  I haven't heard this track except for the free 30 second clip on Amazon.com.   From what I could hear though his "high voice" sounds ok, but was starting to sound a little strained.

But even before that, Carlin noted that Brian was showing signs of strained vocals as early as the Surf's Up album - to the point where Carl would have to help or Desper would have to modify the tape speed.  However, he sounds pretty dam good on Til' I Die and the tag of A Day In The Life Of A Tree.

Does Brian sing background vocals on Cuddle Up?

Indeed it would be. I've seen a picture of Dennis, presumably from 1974 on Ed Roach's website (unfortunately it's not there anymore) and he looked better than ever before on that one. Then again, there's pictures from the 15 Big Ones sessions where it's obvious that something might be a bit wrong with the guy...

That said, 1981 might well be the point of no return for Dennis Wilson. From that year on, he looks a lot worse on virtually every footage I've seen when compared to any earlier stuff.

To think that these guys are/were family is kinda sad...

The '81 incident was because Dennis gave drugs to Brian iirc, but what was the '74 fight about?

I really cannot agree with Peter on this listening to it myself. I mean Desper told me different things about Brian's voice personally. More or less that he didn't hear any difference untill he worked with them again in the late 70's. Look at the vocal credit thread to read my full opinion on this topic of Brian's voice. As for Cuddle Up I hear  him myself but many don't seem to agree. I don't think he's prominent but I hear him there. He is singing the high part on YNAMOHTSA during the verses. I also hear him on Steamboat doing high parts. Again I have been debating on this with people. The one album where you can hear him clearly from this time is Spring and he sounds very good.

Well, regardless of whether he's on those songs or not, it's pretty well established that (a) he had most of his normal voice through 1974 but that (b) it had started to deteriorate somewhat in the late '60s, although probably not to a huge degree.

yeah, but his part in the tag of Funky Pretty he sounded gruffer.

Brian's doing the"oooh Funky" on that song and it sounds sped up to sound almost girlish. I don't hear any gruffness though unless you are hearing another part with him. I slowed it down once myself but there seemed to be no trouble hitting the notes. Instead it seems like he wanted an unnatural voice effect on there. As far as the vocal damage in the late sixties I just don't hear anything. Forever is just about the best singing he ever did. Now I think his voice deepend a little around Smiley Smile but I mark that up more to age (remember when he cut In My Room or Surfer Girl he was barely out of his teens) and the Beach Boys change in style. He sounds a little rough around the edges on the even the early demos IE the Surfin USA demo has a few rough notes. I am sure that his lifestyle in 1973-4 meant that his voice wasn't being taken care of well, but I don't think he would have ever sounded as bad as he got had he not tried to hurt his chords.

I did these for a CD comp I put together on Dennis I think it shows how quickly Dennis went down between 1974-79 plus it will give you all his early looks too. I think 1977 was the turning point for him. I didn't include any pics from 1980-83 in the collage because he really wasn't recording much then plus we know how bad it got.
http://download.yousendit.com/E717F9620DC0D569

Sorry didn't see the question before. I think it was in a bar or something in 1974. I don't know the reason.

From what I understand, there are infact women singing in the tag of Funky Pretty (Marilyn?) so I don't think his vocals were sped up. I'm pretty sure I can hear Brian in the mix and he sounds fantastic.

If you slow it down manually you can hear it was slightly sped up. I think it was to give it a slight affect, or perhaps like an electronic effect. Brian does sound great on it, and I think Marilyn is there. She told me the Trader is her proudest moment as a singer btw.

Could someone repost the pictures on the first two pages?

MBE, C. Miller or anybody else who is in possession of these pics, could somebody repost these. I'm really interested in seeing the change in Brian and whatnot.

I hope somebody can help.