The Smiley Smile Message Board

So will must we expect that Mike sues again?

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2006/09/20/1867108.html

Heres the story....


Beach Boy Mike Love stays positive

By MIKE ROSS -- Edmonton Sun
   

 
 
"So there!"

Thus ends a chat with Mike Love of the Beach Boys, who has been repeatedly called to defend himself against, among other things, the idea that he's the Salieri to Brian Wilson's Mozart.

Love may also go down in history as the most litigious member of the legendary American group, the latest form of which has no one named "Wilson" yet will perform all the hits as if time itself stopped in 1966 at the Shaw Conference Centre tonight. Love currently has two separate cases pending against former Beach Boys original members Brian Wilson and Al Jardine, and remains very protective of all things Beach Boys.

(The original group was rounded out by Brian's brothers Dennis, who drowned in 1983, and Carl, who succumbed to lung cancer in 1998.)

Love is asked what he thinks of the "new" version of Good Vibrations that can be heard on Wilson's recent Smile rerelease - a director's cut of the song that can be likened to George Lucas adding new effects to Star Wars, which was just fine the way it was. Love says that Good Vibrations was just fine the way it was.

"I'm biased towards the original recordings and the original composition of the group," he says. "So I look askance at any other thing. Brian's been known to say the group he works with now is better than the Beach Boys, and personally I think A., that's not a good thing to say about your departed brothers and B., I don't think it's accurate. I take exception to that. So there!"

He's laughing when he says that, however, and seems to dig the idea of leading this article with his "so there!" In fact, while several thorny issues were dealt with in a phone interview yesterday, Love never once got riled up. Credit transcendental meditation for that - have a "calm mind and warm heart" as he says he was told by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Love, the rest of the Beach Boys and another popular band of the day called the Beatles were all in India in 1967 to meet the Maharishi and learn the ways of holistic mind expansion.

"I haven't taken drugs since," Love says, adding that the same cannot be said for his bandmates.

This guy doesn't launch lawsuits just for the fun of it. He's just taking care of business. Someone has to.

"Carl's passed away so he's not in a position to do much," Love says. "His heirs are participants in the company that owns the Beach Boys name and so with Carl not being there, if Al does something we feel is detrimental, then that needs to be addressed - and I don't mind addressing it."

He refers to the controversy of Jardine touring as "Beach Boys Family and Friends." A judge recently threw out part of the lawsuit, which goes to trial Nov. 6, and Jardine has since been invited by Brian to tour Pet Sounds - which means there's a band containing two original Beach Boys while the group allowed to call itself the Beach Boys has only one, Mike Love.

The 65-year-old singer doesn't hesitate to call bullcrap on Brian, either. "I think the people around Brian have caused him to do things that he probably wasn't totally aware of - like giving away 2.9 million copies of a CD in England in a Smile promotion and using the photographs and the name without asking and without compensation. I think Brian is pretty much oblivious to a lot of things that go on. That's my assumption, anyway, and he's guileless enough to go ahead and ask me, 'We ought to get together and write.' "

Brian uttered those words in June, according to Love, and so the reunion door remains open, at least a crack.

Like Wilson, Love's been writing on his own the whole time. He has a new album in the can tentatively called Mike Love, Not War - containing a song called Make Love, Not War - though he says the title might be changed to sound "less political."

Which brings us to another matter of Love. How hard is it for this guy to remain conservative? With a few decidedly liberal opinions aired here and there, Love seems right-wing largely by association - it's hard to avoid when you're friends with the Reagans.

After Reagan's secretary of the interior James Watt declared rock 'n' roll an "undesirable" element and cancelled a July 4, 1983, Beach Boys show in D.C., Nancy Reagan herself phoned Love to apologize. The Beach Boys got their gig back.

Anyway, is it relevant to discuss politics with people whose job it is to entertain us? Love isn't so sure.

He says, "People are going to decide what they're going to do, voting-wise, on the basis of their situation, not what P. Diddy thinks. You know he had that T-shirt saying 'vote or die.' A little hysterical hyperbole, I would call it."

"Neil Young, who I consider a friend and a great artist, he's written songs called Let's Impeach the President and Living With War. I met him in Boston this summer coming out of the hotel we were staying in. He gave me a big hug, and I said, 'Hey, I got a song for ya! It's called Make Love, Not War.' He said, 'Let's put it on my website with the 100 biggest protest songs.' (The song wasn't on there by press time.)

"I don't go around proselytizing to everybody, except to say that I think meditation should be done by everybody - and then everybody could just chill out a little."

In short, gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations happening.



......Nothing in there I can see relating to any new court case's but his point about using the SMiLE name without permission. The album was not released so I guess the title was there for anyone to use. Any opinions?

 

"I don't go around proselytizing to everybody, except to say that I think meditation should be done by everybody - and then everybody could just chill out a little."

Indeed.

I guess "chill out a little" doesn't count lawsuits, eh?

I dont think you can replace the beach boys, but i definetly think the mints and co. are more technically profficient players, and i dont see why would take exception to that, unless he really thinks he is going to have a sax off with Paul Mertens.... which i owuld love to see

I don't think Mike was referring to the technical musicianship aspect...I think his issue is more with Brian saying that they are superior vocalists.  Not to open up this issue again but this is one of the rare times that I agree with Mike on something. 

As i said before, I dont think you can replace the boys, but technically and traditionally speaking, i think brians current band is better, having said that, i would obviously always rather go see the originals (the wilojarston boys), but the mints are technically better id say.

I think technicality is overrated to some extent.

maybe, but not in the case of brians band!!! >:(

Maybe the question is not if Brian's band is technically better, but if Brian should say in public what everybody can see in concert.

Oh and with Mike's argumentation ("A., that's not a good thing to say about your departed brothers and B., I don't think it's accurate.") he could get himself very easily into some trouble (of course not legally-wise)

You have to remember the marketing here. You have Brians people trying to push a product and nothing more.I look at it as a car dealer with two models. The dealer has to say the 2006 is better than the 2005 or he does not eat. Of course Brian is going to say his band is better than the Beach Boys (any version) otherwise the buyer will just buy a Beach Boys album or go to the Mike and Bruce show.

Get over it!

Board's turning blue.

I love how the Lovester always makes those statements with bleeding "hidden messages" and "subtleties". I love more when people debate these supposed hidden messages and subtleties.

I disagree with the last part, I think Brian could say nothing and people would rather opt for his show than the alternative (as long as they knew who he was).

I'm going to see "The Beach Boys" tonight (in Calgary, AB)...I'll let you guys know who is better :lol

I'm reviewing the show - I'll post it when its done.

And I guess I'm sort of excited for the show, but I feel a whole lot more excited for BW at Bridge School next month...

I agree with most of what Mike said in that article.. except the part about him being friends with Neil Young. Neil was probably just bullshitting about putting his song on the website to shut Mike up and get away from him as quickly as possible.

No offense Jason, but everytime someone says something about the BB that you don't like, your standard replty is "it's turning into that awful BlueBoard". What do you have against the BlueBOard?

Not totally on topic but here's another aticle, with one passage that wasn't in the one I already posted (about Mike wanting to write with Brian):

http://www.therockradio.com/2006/09/mike-love-defends-his-lawsuit-against.html

I hate when Brian says his new band is better. Is there anyone with the charsima of Dennis, or the voice of Carl, or even Mike's lyrical abilities (Please Let Me Wonder anyone. The Beach Boys were special and I agree with Mike on some of these things. I don't agree with him being so lawyer happy, but Brian's brothers were terrific. I like the Mints much better then the Beach Boys of the last 25 years, but the real Beach Boys will always be my favorite group. And I mean group.

I'd say The Beach Boys are better from a vocal point of view and probably just because they carry the weight of history as being who they are.  I think it's probable that you could get a bunch of musicians together to perform Beatles' songs and say 'they're a better band' than The Beatles.  And from a purely technical point of view there's every chance that could be true.  I think it's partly from this purely technical point of view that Brian is looking at it.  However, it's also true to say that session musicians played on Beach Boys records to an extent that was not true in The Beatles' case - they largely using other musicians for horns, strings etc rather than core group member instruments such as guitar, bass and drums (although I concede The Beach Boys played on more tracks than some might imagine).  Perhaps Brian looks at the musicians he has now and thinks that here is a self contained group that would have been capable of doing everything he wanted and in that sense they are superior to The Beach Boys.  I think he also sees their enthusiasm for Smile and laments the attitudes he came up against in the past.  He has even said something like "With this band I could have taken Smile on the road back in the sixties". 

Rant removed, replaced with -

I don't like the trains of thought that pervade on the blueboard. Period.

Agree totally.

As performing musicians, I almost completely disagree. I think Brian's current band is filled with better singers and players than the basic Beach Boys group (meaning not counting touring musicians, just brothers, cousin, friend and, if you want, Bruce). I know nobody else tends to agree with that, so whatever. Rant away. This is where that talk of that "certain indefinable magic" and "brotherly blend" comes up, but I call that nostalgia or mythology more than fact.

I'm not saying anyone in his current band could create music that was the equal of Dennis' best, or even the others' best (although I like a lot of the 'mints' music). But as for performing what has already been created, for me it's hands down.

I agree with you. Carl Wilson (maybe Bruce) is the only musician comparable to Brian's band.

One factor that doesn't get enough consideration is the NUMBER OF MUSICIANS in Brian's band versus The Beach Boys' touring band. If The Beach Boys would've supplemented their live band with as many musicians AND SINGERS as Brian does, their sound would've been vastly improved.

On a totally unrelated point - Mr. Moderator, is my avatar ever going to come back, or do I have to redo it?

Who would you rather have singing lead vocals in Brian's band today, Brian or Jeff Foskett?

Both, and almost everyone else besides. While I like Brian's ragged vocals on some parts, there are others that are simply embarrassing. I'd prefer--and I've been saying this for years--that Brian dole out parts the way he did with the Beach Boys. Let the best voice for each song (or verse, or phrase, or whatever) take the lead. Now, I'd take Brian circa 65 or 66 over anyone, but those days are long gone.

Luther, I totally agree with you on this one too. And I'll take it a step further. I wish that Brian would dole out parts the way he used to - ON HIS UPCOMING SOLO ALBUM BY DOLING OUT PARTS TO MIKE, AL, BRUCE, AND DAVID! And bring along Jeff Foskett for the background vocals...

Now that I can't agree with.

Brian's current band has a very muddy, thick sound which I don't really like. True, they recreate studio vocals live far better than the Beach Boys, but thats because there's about 11 of them or something. I truly find some of their voices quite annoying, whoever sings the second low God Only Knows tag part on Pet Sounds live, Jeff Foskett's falsetto really grates after a while. Singing isn't just about the ability to learn a part and stay in tune, its about the tone and expression in your voice.

Tell me that the Beach Boys who recorded the vocals to Wouldn't It Be Nice were not as technically good as Brian's band. Yeah they're better musicians, but I really can't believe that these guys are better vocalists than the Beach Boys, widely regarded as one of the greatest vocal groups of all time.

I believe the folks are referring to the current Beach Boys, right? Otherwise what's the point?  Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys. However, if you go to a concert, Brian's people make Mike's sound like, well, like a tribute band. But a good one though.  When I saw the Mike and Bruce show early this month, WIBN was butchered by the lead vocalist. Others with me said the same thing. He's trying WAY to hard, whatever his name is.

Yes, the original Beach Boys. But the beginning of the last sentence I left in the quote above is exactly what I think is incorrect. "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"...why not? I think that's nostalgia talking, not reason. Something can be. Some things are.

What's wrong with "Nothing will ever be as good as the original Beach Boys"? It's as good a opinion as "Nothing was ever as good as Brian's band".

Speaking for myself, I'd rather watch any live configuration of the Beach Boys between 1961 and 1977, and that's just my opinion. It's just my taste, not nostalgia.

What's wrong with it is that it's taking everything else out of consideration (at least as stated). It's saying it doesn't matter what else there is or will be, because the best has already been acvhieved. (BTW, I never said, nor ever would say, that nothing was ever as good as Brian's band.) I think once a mind is so firmly made up as to make musical taste almost religious conviction, it just gets...weird. (I guess posting that thought on a BB message board of which I'm a member might not be the best place...)

I think we have a problem here with the meaning of the word "opinion".

I don't know. It is always an opinion how anyone feels about some music. Different people will have different ones. I don't have a problem with that. It's the closing off of one's mind to the potential for change in the future that bothers me. I can have an opinion that Brian Wilson had the best falsetto ever and I think that's fine. But if I think Brian Wilson had a better falsetto than anyone else will ever have, that is an entirely different thing and I'd consider myself a closed-minded fool if I said that. To do so is stopping your potential for development of taste, ignoring current and future music, etc. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I'm saying that to determine something past is better than anything that could ever come lends itself to just shutting down.

What you're saying now has nothing to do with your initial post:

No it doesn't.

My opinion on which band is better is Brian Wilson's current band. Nobody agrees. I believe that many people say that the Beach Boys are better purely out of nostalgia.

The latter posts aren't about which of two bands is better, but the statement that "nobody will ever top..." the Beach Boys (or anyone else). That is wholly different.

If someone prefers the Beach Boys to BW's band because they think they were a better group, fine. My initial posts only had to do with letting the legend or mystique get in the way. My latter posts weren't about preference between the two, but shutting off one's mind to the possibility of some band (in this case, the BBS) ever being topped.

Those aren't contradictory--they're different topics. I changed my point after the phrase "nobody will ever top" (or whatever it was--I'm not going to go digging for it) came up.
 

Ever listen to King Diamond? His falsetto is INSANE!

No, but I saw his pic in metal magazines I used to buy as a young teenager. That reminds me, I had awful taste as a teenager.

Everybody believes lots of things, but usually we restrain ourselves and pretend to respect other people's opinions.  :)

The Beach Boys played their instruments just fine. Just listen to one of their live albums, there's a power and energy there that is missing from Brian's current band. Obviously one of the reasons the Beach Boys were succesful is the chemistry they had together, they're not just hired hands like Brian's current band.

Also, it's important to remember that the Beach Boys were not trying to recreate Brian's sound in the studio, they were adapting his songs to a live rock concert setting, and played the songs in that fashion. Especially during the early 70's.

I was born in 76 and didn't even see the group really until about 1985. Became a fan in 1988. It's not nostalgia for me I just happen to like the sound of music recorded from about 51-71 better then anything else. The way it was recorded, the trends, etc. appeal to me more then anything done since. I happen to like the Beach Boys of the 60s and early 70s better then any other group. Is there a slim chance I will one day like someone more? Sure I discover "new" music all the time. It just so happens though that most of it was recorded in the era I mentioned. I am way more open to different things then I used to be, but 90 percent of what I truly LOVE is from that era. That said, Brian's band is fine and they sound great for what they do, but I am not a Wondermints "fan". I like them in the context of what they do with Brian, but I am listening because I like Brian.  As much as I like any given song, it's more how it was performed that interests me. The Beach Boys simply were great performers and had charisma that made up for anything technical. Do I like Dennis Wilson better then any given Jazz great? I can easily say yes. Btw I do actually respect everyone's opinion. What I wrote here is simply me sharing what I personally think.

I'm not, and wasn't, saying it isn't a valid opinion to prefer the Beach Boys to Brian's band. And I respect people's opinions, and their right to have opinions. I've never said otherwise. I don't say otherwise now. All I ever did was GUESS at what might be behind SOME people's opinions. That's it.

Well, no, later on I said it seems narrow minded to say nothing in the future will ever be able to top something that's past.

Anyway, everyone, have opinions. Enjoy your opinions. I'm not judging you. I wasn't judging you. I don't even know you. It doesn't matter. Clear? I hope so. Jesus...

(BTW, MBE, I was going to note that your preference still could be based more on "legend" than fact. You know, like deep in my heart I will always have a bias toward Hendrix on guitar and Freddie Mercury on vocals just because of stories I heard, books I read, etc. A person could do that--be so steeped in the mystique of a band so as to build an aura that makes a person closed off to anything else. But I don't want to note that anymore because it seems like too much work, I'll be interpreted as having somehow said everyone who was born in 1976 is stupid and doesn't respect opinions [or something, and by the way, I was born in 1976 and am just fucking around, so don't be offended by that] and have to explain all over again. Oh yeah, and I already did say it.  Right here. In this paragraph. But to reiterate, I don't know why you prefer them, or care. I come in peace. I go in peace.]

Luther, I'm terribly sorry for misunderstading your words.

By the way, I guess you prefer Brian's band because he's your idol. That said, I respect your opinion.

Actually, no. I think he's the worst one in the band. By far. (Although I also don't much like Mertens' solos.) I prefer them because I think Wondermints and Jeff and Scott and Taylor sing brilliantly together, and Probyn (in particular, although also the others) is remarkably versatile and talented. That's why.

And I respect my fucking opinion, too.

 :lol

Remind me not to come around here.

Luther thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I just like the actual sound on the music recorded during the Beach Boys prime. I also like the styles etc. Your point is well taken but there are many people who are proclaimed as great, considered legends, that I don't like. Also there are plenty of people dismissed by critics who I love. I am sure your theory is valid for many. Don't be discouraged to post because I for one like to have the chance to think about how (or why) I enjoy someone over someone else.

Celebration.. now that was a good band, yesiree.