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So one of the most talked about discussions in Beach Boys history stems from Brian’s “sudden” change in voice and when it actually happened. Well, it’s about to get weirder….

According to Bellagio, “Back Home” was recorded in Sept 1975, which would mean that’s the debut of his “new” voice, minus some 1972 vocals. There’s one small problem… you know the “In the Back of my Mind” demo that had the latest bit of “classic” Brian , only for his voice to change halfway through (and strangely sound like Carl on one line )?
It’s December 1975, meaning it was AFTER his lead on Back Home…

That’s a headfucker

Didn’t BW’s book say he had laryngitis during that era?

What's the source on Back of My Mind being December? Bellagio? That's actually cordoned off below December with tracks that were recorded in the year 1975 but haven't been narrowed down to a month (source: several of those dates were supplied by me).

The Back Home track was recorded around fall '75, but the vocals probably weren't added until spring '76 during the 15 Big Ones sessions. In February, Brian sang a line to Timothy White and was still thinking of it in terms of the "neighborhood kids" lyrics/melody.

Gotcha…yeah the layout made it look like it was part of the December sessions that didn’t have a date!

For what it’s worth,  I’d been told years ago it was likely March 1975.

Back Home had an “8” by it ; appendix said it was the version that appeared on the album. That said…Brian’s vocal line from the “live” version that was actually a studio recording…could that be from Sept 1975?

Yes… and continuing his vices while that’s going on certainly led to permanent damage , in addition to intentionally trying to sound different while that’s going on.

I think it's a combination of session dates not being accurate/Brian having good days and bad days/Brian not giving a sh*t and/or being passive aggressive. I really like Love You and Adult/Child, but I wonder if the songs and the rough vocals were a passive aggressive put on by Brian since he was forced to be back when he wasn't ready to be.

The vocal flown into the live performance on Feel Flows is an alternate take from the 15 Big Ones version's multitrack, but I think it's unlikely that there was any significant lapse in time between them. Brian sounds about the same, more exuberant in one, singing it straight in the other. There's a contemporary article on the March sessions that implies Chapel of Love was Brian's first recorded lead vocal since his return. I tend to think Back Home was revived later, around April to May, when the project took a left turn into including original songs.

I've heard a couple of instances of Brian's voice in March '75, and he was quite a way off where he's at on In the Back of My Mind. Not dissimilar to his vocals in November '74 really. My guess is it was sometime between then and Landy's hire in September/October, because Tandyn Almer's playing the piano and Brian probably wouldn't have been allowed near him and other friends in that circle once all that started.

Any idea of when in 75 his back up vocals on Boat to Sail or Johnny Rivers’ cover of Help Me Rhonda were recorded?

Not a clue! I'd love to find out.

On the studio talk intro to In the Back Of My Mind, Brian's speaking voice sounds like that of Burton Cummings of The Guess Who. The phrasing is also different from what we're used to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOHPLPX_Go

I Am Brian Wilson p. 76: "I had laryngitis. I wasn't using my normal voice. It was an assumed voice. I had to make it up to get through all the singing. For me, it's basically a laryngitis album."

Honestly, that doesn't make much sense. If he had a mild case of it, then possibly, but if it were full blown he wouldn't have nearly as much of the "full"  voice heard on 15 Big Ones and Love You.

It could’ve been a case where it was mild enough for him to still record. If that was indeed the case , continuing to smoke like a chimney along with intentionally trying to sound a certain way would make it last a lot longer before recovery than if he had taken care of himself at least to the extent of an average person. In 78 he had it again (very noticeable in one interview up on YouTube) . After that period there was no going back.

Still, it trips me out how his voice changes halfway through ITBOMM…like it went from California Feeling 74 Brian to California Feeling 1978 Brian and completely skipped the 76 and 77 years

The more I think about it, the more confused I am over why 15 Big Ones and Love You are the only two albums where Brian's voice is so overly hoarse. On the Adult Child tracks Brian's voice is a lot smoother for the most part, other than Lazy Lizzie. He sounds really good on MIU, and even on KTSA.

Cause that was his “real” voice without putting on for whatever reason, nor laryngitis,

I do wonder, and I hope this doesn’t come off wrong… I wonder if whatever Landy had him on during the first go-round was affecting him vocally , much like he was singing differently in the second period too

There is/was a distinct change again somewhere between 1983-85. Listen to Brian sing "I'm Lost Without You" pre "BB 85", and then compare the album version.

Speaking of which, Is it just me, or was Brian not talking out of the side of his mouth nearly as much or as bad prior to 1976-ish?

Do you mean “It’s Just a Matter of Time”?

There’s a 1964 interview in the LPR doc where he actually talks more like Imagination era Brian. Same with 1968. In 76 there was a lisp that wasn’t there previously.

Yeah, the early version he would play during 1983.

I've heard outtakes from the KTSA era and listening to them it's evident they didn't use Brian's lead vocals because his voice was *really* bad around then. It's not so much that it was hoarse as that he was no longer really doing passable lead vocals regardless of the approach. The vibe I got was they wanted him up front more but wound up using him just for cameos and increased presence in the background vocal stack. Ironically the stuff a little later sounded a bit better, maybe because he was forced to sing a lot while Carl was gone.

Over the years, Brian has presented us with more voices and physical appearances than one would have thought possible!

It's a good point; Brian did sound a bit better a bit later. For all the justifiable criticism that 1981/82 Carl-less band gets (less because Carl wasn't there, but because they all seemed to sound worse, including a few of the backing band members), Brian's leads on that tour were *sometimes* pretty solid. Even on the most infamous case, the nationally-televised Queen Mary show, Brian sounds pretty solid on "God Only Knows" and "Sloop John B", and even on the non-high/falsetto parts of "Good Vibrations." They unfortunately inexplicably had Brian singing "Don't Worry Baby" on that tour as well. By that point, even Carl and Al would have had trouble singing that song in its original key (and sure enough, later on in the 80s Carl shared the lead with Foskett, and by the 90s they just had Matt Jardine sing the whole thing). Why they gave that song to Brian, I'd love to know.

Brian had good days and bad days during that 1981/82 run. But it was one of the last eras when he sometimes had some good power behind his voice, and if he found the right register, he sounded strangely and differently pretty good. Listen to him belt out "Oh Lord" on the "Hamburger/Cocaine Tape", which is probably from 1980 or maybe 81 or so. That's another tape where the title given to it by fans indicates the condition people assume he was in. Yet, he kind of sounds good on some of that stuff. He even sounds pretty good belting a few lines from "Heroes and Villains."

Brian sounds pretty great on Stevie, for the era. Not so much on the handful of things he sang in '78 and '79. His voice wasn't as hoarse as it was in '76 but it's like he lost the ability to comfortably carry a tune. I definitely have a soft spot for his Oh Darlin' over Carl's, though.

I forget which interview it was years ago where Al Jardine seemed to feel Brian had at some point sort of “sabotaged” his own voice. I know the “sabotaging his own voice” theory has been debated on and off over the years by fans. We’ll obviously never get much of a definitive answer. But it’s plausible to me that someone who is re-emerging and is a bit skittish or nervous and knows their voice isn’t in the same shape, could then exaggerate that to sound even worse to kind of cover it up, as bizarre as that might sound.

Brian’s voice was all over the place by the mid 70s. Listen to the 15BO and Love You stuff, most of which was tracked in 1976, and then listen to his vocals on “MIU”, mostly cut in 1977. Compare Brian’s vocals on the “Love You” stuff to like “Wontcha Come Out Tonight.”

It’s ironic that in the midst of internal group political turmoil and the creation of, well, not the most substantive material of their career, somebody (or just Brian himself) got some good, smooth lead vocal from Brian out there at the MIU in Iowa.

Look at some of the studio footage of Brian at MIU in 1977 in that “Our Team” documentary, and then look at his stage presence and photos/footage from 1978/79/80. I’m sure there were literal physical things happening to his voice/throat all through that, and also some emotional/personal/mood stuff too.

And yet it still waxed and waned. At a lot of 1980 gigs during his few short lead vocal bits, he started to have that sort of “whine” to his voice that we heard more in the later 80s with Landy. Yet, “Stevie” from around that same time has him sounding closer to his “MIU/Wontcha Come Out Tonight” voice.

I don't supposed you're at liberty to elaborate? The only outtakes from that period I've heard(that I'm aware of) are the alternate version of Oh Darlin'(which I personally believe to be better than the version they went with), and River Deep, Mountain High. I'm not sure if Stevie or Sweetie would count as being from that period.

That's the thing I was trying to mention with his early live versions of what became "It's Just A Matter of Time". Brian had a "soulful", or even a "belting out" quality that he somehow lost some time after around 1984-ish. The same goes for his high register. Listen to his higher voice on that one section of "Oh Lord", and then listen to his high part in the intro to "Getcha Back". He had a certain "warmth" or "smooth" quality that somehow changed into more of a whine by 1985.

Same…Carl had a “better” voice  at that point but it sounded dull and sleepy on Oh Darlin’ and the song itself certainly  didn’t need any help to achieve that!

Even with the stuff we have heard, he was doing this abrupt barking delivery and cutting off the ends of phrases. Like his vocal cameo on Going On, doing the title phrase. Kinda like he does now

Actually, on live recordings of Goin On' from 1980, Brian was usually really enthused and into it. He would do stuff like vocalizing over the solo at times. But occasionally(Philly 1980) he would be overly agressive and shouty(Goin' Ah-HAWN!).

The thing that's so wild to me is the inconsistency *within* a single performance. Sometimes it almost feels like his younger voice is locked up in his chest, struggling to get out. To take just one example, there's a moment in the Queen Mary performance of Sloop John B (song is at 6:00 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i8BA4OMr2w), where Brian starts the song, and he's doing a pretty good job, I guess, but he's got that wooden face and slightly off delivery we're now so used to, but then on the words "we did roam" he just hits that word roam so sweetly and then immediately smiles. There's something about it that I just find very effecting, even though I'm probably reading way to much into it!

I noticed that he often to said that particular word the sane way often during this time. He did it at Knebworth  too.

For what it's worth, in this interview from 1995 (about 2:55 into the interview), Brian himself states he ruined his voice with cigarettes.

https://youtu.be/DKnGCVRyPh4

At points in this interview he sounds reminiscent of his younger self.

I guess it's debatable whether "Stevie" would count as the same era. The KTSA tracks were pretty much all recorded in 1979. "Stevie" as I recall comes from January 1981.

There are some other bits from this era. His vocal on "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" supposedly comes from February 1979, which pretty much falls right between "LA" and "KTSA" sessions.

I don't think we've ever nailed down a definitive date for the Cocaine/Hamburger tape, but while long ago it was assumed to be 1981 or 82 during Brian's pretty rough period, I believe some believe it's earlier than that, perhaps in 1980.

I recall some supposition that home demos for "Rings/Reins", "Walking on Water", and "Sweetie" come from around 1981 (in any event, possibly pre-dating the second Landy period).

I don't think there's any hard rule about how Brian could sound during all of these periods. As is usually the case, he tends to be more likely to sound smoother and more relaxed in the studio or even on "home demos" than he did on stage. On stage he tended to stiffen up, and sometimes deliver forceful leads, and then sometimes also barely get anything out and in some cases literally give up mid-song.

I think his live leads during the 1979-1980 (and to some degree 81 and 82 as well) tended to be much more about where he was at emotionally and psychologically (not taking care of his voice certainly didn't help). But he was very detached in 1979-1980. Listen to his co-lead with Al on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" from the 4th of July 1980 show. At one point Brian's voice literally sounds like a tape deck running out of batteries and slowing to a complete stop. There are some contemporary reviews from 81/82 where Brian and even sometimes the other guys would balk on leads and toss them to someone else. I recall a review of an '82 show without Carl where Brian gave up on "God Only Knows", told Bruce to sing it, Bruce tried and gave up, and I think Foskett ended up singing it. In that case I think it may have been a cold being passed around among band members. But the shows started getting extra sloppy in that sense without Carl. Things kind of tightened up when Carl returned in mid-82 I suppose.

The demo tape with Rings, Walking on Water, Sweetie and Angel is from October 1986, but was assumed to be earlier because Brian also talked about Sweetie in 1981. There is a Beach Boys studio version recorded at Rumbo in March that year with the Mike, Al and Brian vocal trade off he described.

Brian had a crack at a vocal on Smokey Places during the KTSA sessions, which is supposed to not be bad for the time.

Ah, I see it circled back around. It was originally assumed (as far as I can remember anyway) those demos were from the Landy era, mid-80s, then there were implications it pre-dated Landy Mark II. Stuff like "Walking on Water" always sounded more like '85 or '86 based on Brian having some pep in his voice that you don't hear on the pre-Landy early 80s stuff so much.

The post-KTSA, pre-Landy Brian stuff I've always found fascinating. Those 1980 backing tracks ("My Solution", etc.). I've always wanted to hear more (I suspect the "Sweetie" session from Rumbo that I recall discussing many years ago is probably among the least interesting given the song's structure, but I'd still love to hear it of course). I still fear this is the type of stuff that will slip through the cracks on archival releases, because it really isn't like front-and-center stuff to present to the public. It needs the context of an archival package.

I wouldn't be, because I don't remember, although some of the tracks I heard at that time have I think since been released or gotten out there otherwise. I did note and still recall "Smokey Places," which I thought was the only decent Brian vocal, as Will references above.

A couple things to add to the discussion... when did Brian first get dentures?  I'm sure that contributes to the lack of clarity of consonants and generally odd singing style later in life. 

Also, if you have the chance, listen to some of the live shows on youtube from late 1977.  Brian was at one of his lighter and healthier points, and they were trying to stick him up front, playing bass and his mic on fairly loud.  Sometimes he's way off key, but other times he just nails it and it sounds like 1964 again.

I think Brian nailed the bridge on Surfer Girl at Knebworth.

I would guess that he got implants or veneers around 2007, and it improved things. Dentures seem a bit sketchy for someone of his economic status. Not saying there couldn’t have been a period with dentures or bridges prior to that.

I feel as though he started showing off his big bright white teeth by the time of the Lucky Old Sun photos. That is also the time at which his diction got much clearer— much crisper consonants than SMiLE in 2004.

Talking about changes…that 1995 interview and others from the 1994 to 1996 period are some of his most honest and verbose. After 1997 the vast majority of his interviews are pretty bad, terse and unrevealing. Wonder if it was a medicine change

Definitely was a medication change (Brian had put on a ton of weight and drastically lost it right around the same period), but I think Carl’s death also took a lot out of him

Good observation. Yes, he was pretty talkative in IJWMFTT, and at times, very making observations of great depth. I assume the interview you refer to is the one where Brian is in the studio, has just done some work with Mike and Carl. I've gotten used to the nearly mute Brian of recent years, so it was surprising to see how verbose - and open and honest - he was there. He may have been suffering some bad side effects from some of the medicine he was on, but mentally, he's very sharp.

That is probably the worst bad take in BB fandom: “Brian was better when he was hopped up on bad meds because that made him more conversational”.

With all respect, that's not what's being said in this thread. No one is saying Brian shouldn't have gotten the medication he needed or that it would be better to be more talkative and under or poorly medicated. People are just observing that it may have been a factor in how he comes across in public speaking engagements, that's all.

That's not what I said. And I think what we are seeing in that video is more the after effects of meds prescribed for him by Landy than anything he was taking in 1995.

To me, Brian sounded like his 1964 self in the opening seconds of his interview with me, when he said, "hello, Joel."

Here’s the thing — Brian did almost no press from the late 60s to the late 90s. That’s almost 30 years. When he did give interviews, he was usually on uppers of some kind (legal or illegal). Once he was properly diagnosed, he actually began taking less medicine — but it was definitely of a more sedating, calming variety. That coincided with doing more press and, for Brian, no doubt getting much more bored and annoyed with the whole thing. So he became far more terse — and interestingly, also began to sing in a far more relaxed manner.

Very interesting point you make Wirestone, especially that last part. While I love the Brian Wilson album, and I love it as it is, I can't imagine the Landy-Era Brian singing with such subtlety and relaxed feeling on songs like "Summer's Gone", "Midnight's Another Day" or "Whatever Happened" among many others. I do wonder if it was just down to approach and vocal coaching, or how much the medication has effected Brian. I don't think I ever thought of any of this until you brought it up.

Possibly getting off the subject of Brian's voice, and just to Brian in general.  I always think of something I heard years ago on the old radio talk show "Loveline".  Dr. Drew was talking about how the brain has "reserve" cells that take over when brain cells start to die off due to the aging process.  But for people who destroy brain cells due to drug use, they may say, "I feel fine, nothing has changed" in the short term.  But in the long term, when the brain needs those reserve cells... it's already on the reserve cells, and some mental decline can occur.  When I see Brian in zombie mode, I often think of that.

Well, he sure did a lot of press around the  time of his first solo album, and again when the "autobiography" was released. He didn't have any shortage of things to say then.

I love food.

Those events were four years apart. And almost every one was controlled heavily by Landy. They were entirely different than the situation that arrived with Imagination and beyond, when Brian did exponentially more (and shorter) interviews. What's more, the pieces Jason Fine wrote, along with the astonishing Harvey Kubernik one, show that he could still be talkative when the mood struck.

Brian did a lot of press around the time of IJWMFTT and OCA, too. And he had a LOT to say.