The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: UEF on April 28, 2022, 06:03:24 AM



Title: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on April 28, 2022, 06:03:24 AM
https://youtu.be/0JCeL9vCiXY

https://shop.thebeachboys.com/collections/sounds-of-summer

https://thesoundofvinyl.com/search.html?term=beach+boys (use code SOV10PERCENTOFF ;) )

A few sites have a special 6LP version (there is also a standard 6LP)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on April 28, 2022, 06:21:44 AM
Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on April 28, 2022, 06:25:57 AM
Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

Good spot. Sounds like the "tribute special" is the closest anyone's getting to a 60th gig - which may include some, all or none of the BBs.

The documentary is major news though - could do for them what the Anthology did for the flagging Beatles brand in the 90s.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on April 28, 2022, 06:57:04 AM
Regarding the documentary, unfortunately I don't think we'll be looking at anything near the scope of the "Beatles Anthology" if we're looking at simply a feature-length doc.  

Someone recently dug up some info indicating the doc is being done with Disney, so I'm guessing we're looking at a single, "feature-length" documentary (*possibly* two parts at the most), probably on the Disney+ streaming service.

I think we're looking at, at best, something more like an updated version of the "Endless Harmony" doc as opposed to a BBs version of the "Beatles Anthology."


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on April 28, 2022, 07:10:15 AM
Here's the tracklisting from the Apple Music listing which seems to indicate which mixes are 2021, etc.

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xx-PwQWtbXEAX8Xw3yo&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_ik6xy8FqitNr65SRI3-ERJQW6eesvuYANgQe1b6FH3Q&oe=62700753)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-q4hAD6clcAX_4goke&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xm0yJw838EwykXfxDveCw6oCukKWErdsitGzSlFz4fQ&oe=626FD6EB)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h1_wsRYB3TIAX9cwyj3&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_18wZ2qCoHsPczRVFEFTt3NzujKERFZzadLVg9XcO_FQ&oe=626F164A)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ThFh7Z_D_LEAX_yYoCc&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8vHhMv6CXGXMjPLi0iSMDMt7C_uhObi78ELq_WX6IWvQ&oe=626EEB8D)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1Y877qTw3iUAX-nPdR2&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9RIlZLi8Rzijp2qczZkM02mrbpoZzGVrgbyD2bKdSI5A&oe=626F8689)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MOpmaac0voQAX-R4T5e&tn=hcTSd7Qo5WxZcQSw&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_RpVh-b_doKzeAoUS2L2NUBo42xKmpI8MiBU4OJazGuw&oe=626F67AD)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on April 28, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
Regarding the documentary, unfortunately I don't think we'll be looking at anything near the scope of the "Beatles Anthology" if we're looking at simply a feature-length doc. 

Someone recently dug up some info indicating the doc is being done with Disney, so I'm guessing we're looking at a single, "feature-length" documentary (*possibly* two parts at the most), probably on the Disney+ streaming service.

I think we're looking at, at best, something more like an updated version of the "Endless Harmony" doc as opposed to a BBs version of the "Beatles Anthology."

Perhaps something of the scope of The Bee Gees one on HBO - which still did well for them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bee_Gees:_How_Can_You_Mend_a_Broken_Heart


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on April 28, 2022, 07:20:40 AM
1. Hmmm, unless my eyes skipped it, no The Little Girl I Once Knew? That would make for a nice stereo extraction.
2. Guess they couldn't extract the single mix of Be True To Your School.
3. The Good Vibrations mix sounds fantastic!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on April 28, 2022, 07:21:37 AM
This story announced the release of the “CATP-So Tough”/Holland”
Collection plus anniversary details in general form.  

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/beach-boys-60th-anniversary-sounds-of-summer/


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 28, 2022, 07:23:43 AM
Here's the tracklisting from the Apple Music listing which seems to indicate which mixes are 2021, etc.

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xx-PwQWtbXEAX8Xw3yo&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_ik6xy8FqitNr65SRI3-ERJQW6eesvuYANgQe1b6FH3Q&oe=62700753)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-q4hAD6clcAX_4goke&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xm0yJw838EwykXfxDveCw6oCukKWErdsitGzSlFz4fQ&oe=626FD6EB)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h1_wsRYB3TIAX9cwyj3&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_18wZ2qCoHsPczRVFEFTt3NzujKERFZzadLVg9XcO_FQ&oe=626F164A)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ThFh7Z_D_LEAX_yYoCc&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8vHhMv6CXGXMjPLi0iSMDMt7C_uhObi78ELq_WX6IWvQ&oe=626EEB8D)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1Y877qTw3iUAX-nPdR2&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9RIlZLi8Rzijp2qczZkM02mrbpoZzGVrgbyD2bKdSI5A&oe=626F8689)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MOpmaac0voQAX-R4T5e&tn=hcTSd7Qo5WxZcQSw&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_RpVh-b_doKzeAoUS2L2NUBo42xKmpI8MiBU4OJazGuw&oe=626F67AD)

Thanks for sharing that, I am probably most excited by the new mix for the love you tracks as well as this mysterious "alternate take" of all I wanna do, I'm guessing this would be something that was totally different and not included on the FF box


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on April 28, 2022, 07:32:02 AM
The foil case on the limited versions sounds fun


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ram4 on April 28, 2022, 08:27:13 AM
Wow, I almost missed them announcing a multi-disc set for Carl and The Passions-So Tough and Holland coming out this year as well.  I am very curious to hear the new stereo mixes of I Get Around and Help Me Rhonda but I don't understand why The Little Girl I Once Knew is absent if they are using technology to turn mono mixes into stereo now.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 28, 2022, 09:12:54 AM
Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

It's probably just me, but the fact that the individual band members are not mentioned by name until the end of this press release is a little disheartening. Like this statement: "With each album, The Beach Boys refined their songwriting and production skills, rapidly evolving from their early surf beginnings to create some of the most sonically exquisite and most important and beloved music ever made." I don't know what they're trying to do with this approach, I guess we'll see.

Good to see another archival 70's set in the pipeline though.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Rob Dean on April 28, 2022, 10:19:53 AM
AND a change from the normal BB'S Logo

Can't wait , yet another exciting year for us all  ;D


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SonicVolcano on April 28, 2022, 10:30:03 AM
Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

I really hope we will get some full concerts from the 72-74 era. They were an incredible live band in those days.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on April 28, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
I’m not sure why the press release doesn’t mention it, but important to point out here that we’ll also be getting new liner notes on this from Howie Edelson. Howie also played a key role in selecting the running order of the second and third discs (the first disc of course mirroring the original 2003 CD).

Two of the main reasons the core fans would be picking this up would be the new packaging/liner notes, and the new stereo remixes, and this press release didn’t detail either of those.

In any event, I’m glad Howie and the team are there doing their thing on these projects. Obviously, the band/label are going to do some sort of 60th hits package, it's inevitable. This set could have easily just been "Sounds of Summer" with that "Warmth of the Sun" disc and most of "Greatest Hits Vol. 3" just tacked on. I'm glad a lot more thought went into the track selection and consideration for some new remixes.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: AKA on April 28, 2022, 11:09:57 AM
It’s a little weird there’s nothing from That’s Why God Made the Radio on the expanded Sounds of Summer.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on April 28, 2022, 12:50:51 PM
It’s a little weird there’s nothing from That’s Why God Made the Radio on the expanded Sounds of Summer.

I mean, it is and it isn't? There's plenty I like on there, but from a standpoint of 'appeasing all camps' that would seem to be one of the more politically thorny albums to pull tracks from.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: as1972 on April 28, 2022, 01:31:37 PM
Here's the tracklisting from the Apple Music listing which seems to indicate which mixes are 2021, etc.

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xx-PwQWtbXEAX8Xw3yo&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_ik6xy8FqitNr65SRI3-ERJQW6eesvuYANgQe1b6FH3Q&oe=62700753)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-q4hAD6clcAX_4goke&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xm0yJw838EwykXfxDveCw6oCukKWErdsitGzSlFz4fQ&oe=626FD6EB)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h1_wsRYB3TIAX9cwyj3&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_18wZ2qCoHsPczRVFEFTt3NzujKERFZzadLVg9XcO_FQ&oe=626F164A)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ThFh7Z_D_LEAX_yYoCc&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8vHhMv6CXGXMjPLi0iSMDMt7C_uhObi78ELq_WX6IWvQ&oe=626EEB8D)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1Y877qTw3iUAX-nPdR2&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9RIlZLi8Rzijp2qczZkM02mrbpoZzGVrgbyD2bKdSI5A&oe=626F8689)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MOpmaac0voQAX-R4T5e&tn=hcTSd7Qo5WxZcQSw&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_RpVh-b_doKzeAoUS2L2NUBo42xKmpI8MiBU4OJazGuw&oe=626F67AD)

Thanks for sharing that, I am probably most excited by the new mix for the love you tracks as well as this mysterious "alternate take" of all I wanna do, I'm guessing this would be something that was totally different and not included on the FF box

The timestamp matches the Dennis lead on All I Want To Do from 2018, so it seems more likely it's a typo.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: AKA on April 28, 2022, 02:10:48 PM
I’m not digging the stereo mix of “Good Vibrations.”

“I love the colorful clothes she wear.” What happened to the “s?”


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Emdeeh on April 28, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
Has anybody else noticed that the track listing for the six-LP set has only one side on the sixth disc?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: thetojo on April 28, 2022, 06:14:50 PM
Wondering what the 1993 year listed for those SMiLE tracks means exactly.

Assuming GV 30 Years Box Set mixes?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Jim V. on April 28, 2022, 07:09:17 PM
This looks like a great starter set for a new fan.

I do have to say that I'm disappointed (but obviously not surprised) that we couldn't have gotten a new track or two from the guys. I guess the chances of a real reunion are probably not great.

Also, count me as a little annoyed at all the new stereo remixes. It was neat in the late '90s and early '00s, but now we have to be on like fourth stereo remixes for some of these songs, right? But nobody's forcing me to buy this, although I'm nearly positive I will. Cuz I'm me.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: juggler on April 28, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Wondering what the 1993 year listed for those SMiLE tracks means exactly.

Assuming GV 30 Years Box Set mixes?

That's a real head-scratcher.  Why would they use those 1993 mixes?   To my ear, the 2011 Smile Sessions mix of "Wind Chimes" sounds much clearer and crisper.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: thetojo on April 29, 2022, 03:39:10 PM
Wondering what the 1993 year listed for those SMiLE tracks means exactly.

Assuming GV 30 Years Box Set mixes?

That's a real head-scratcher.  Why would they use those 1993 mixes?   To my ear, the 2011 Smile Sessions mix of "Wind Chimes" sounds much clearer and crisper.

Had another think about this - maybe the 1993 just signifies that those recordings were first released in that year.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Gosh Darn Highway on April 30, 2022, 03:08:40 PM
I've often wondered a couple things when it comes to these compilations.
1) What does it mean when no year in indicated? Many of the songs have title only; what would one assume the source of those tracks to be? There is probably an obvious answer to this that I am missing, but would love some clarification from anyone who knows!
2) Using songs from "Pet Sounds" to illustrate my confusion over source selections, according to the Apple Music tracklisting posted here earlier, "God Only Knows" is the '96 stereo mix, "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is 2013, and "Sloop John B." is unspecified. From an album like that which has been remastered more than any others in their catalogue, I find it amusing and confusing as to why so many compilations cherry pick from a variety of versions. Is there a consensus after the fact that some of the later releases are not, in fact, better (despite improved technology/new mastering/etc.)? Or are there preferences within the band for certain versions that are adhered to regardless?
3) With several releases over the years boasting newer mixes and/or remastering, wouldn't (in theory) one expect that the latest version to be the "best" one? Surely they'd be advertised as such ("using the latest technology," etc.).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on May 01, 2022, 08:28:03 AM
This is really not needed but of course I bought it anyway


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on May 01, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Some of the track selections for Discs 2 and 3 are surprising for sure, some of them just baffling.

It’s interesting to also note how much The Beach Boys compilations change over the years. The original companion disc to Sounds of Summer was The Warmth of the Sun but there are a lot of songs that appeared on that collection that are not included here.

Songs on The Warmth of the Sun not on expanded Sounds of Summer:
Catch a Wave, Hawaii, Little Honda, 409, Then I Kissed Her, Please Let Me Wonder (that’s a glaring omission), The Little Girl I Once Knew, Break Away, Why Do Fools Fall In Love, Cool Cool Water, Don’t Go Near the Water, California Dreamin’

Personally I would at least trade Pom Pom Play Girl, Farmer’s Daughter, San Miguel, Everyone’s In Love With You, and Where I Belong for Please Let Me Wonder, The Little Girl I Once Knew, Break Away, Cool Cool Water, and California Dreamin’.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Luke_Barshack on May 03, 2022, 02:17:14 PM
I've pre-ordered because, of course I have.

I may be over thinking this, but the biggest missed opportunity here (in my opinion) is the chance to place the tracks in chronological order and firmly set a clear narrative in the public consciousness.

While I've always been wary of comparing The Beach Boys to The Beatles (I believe it's a bit over-used in a lot of PR pieces), something I think Apple got right was managing The Beatles' legacy in such a way that multiple images of the band can co-exist and be used in marketing. The Red and Blue albums are a perfect example of how different images of the band can be used. Those compilations and the '1' album are presented pretty much chronologically - as is the track listing and scrapbook artwork of Anthology. Casual listeners have a sense of the early mop-top days, the psychedelic period, and the latter mature pop period.

The Beach Boys legacy, ever since Endless Summer, has largely doubled down on the surfing image, for obvious reasons. Compilations have then had a kaleidoscopic running order, which can be great for the flow - but for a casual listener there's little to differentiate 1968 to 1963, or 79 etc.

I've always assumed this was also because of a perceived 'quality drop' post Pet Sounds on the part of compilers. But with choice cuts, and opening things up to Smile Sessions and other vault tracks I think this myth is busted.

The disc art for the three CD set even touches on three 'eras' of the group. But this isn't reflected in the contents, and I wish it was.

I get that the decision to 'expand' Sounds of Summer meant the first disc was locked-in. But for me personally, there was an opportunity to change perceptions here and present a clear 'Surf > Pet Sounds/Smile > Late 60s/Early 70s > America's Band' narrative through the imagery and the track listing. Coupled with the upcoming feature length doc - not to mention the new music videos and lyric videos - I think this could have been powerful. Ending with a TWGMTR track (Summer's Gone?) would have meant we didn't end on Kokomo.

It's no coincidence that in 2002, after buying Pet Sounds, I bought 'Classics Selected by Brian Wilson' which was in chronological order, along with succinct liner notes from Brian. It was really the disc that blew my mind and made me buy every album, because I understood the journey. When I eventually bought the Good Vibrations box (which was amazing), I always thought those discs could have been rejigged slightly to focus on released material only and re-packaged as 'hits' comps, serving as a definitive 'Red and Blue' style collection.

Anyway - I probably think about this stuff way too much. But it's just something that intrigues me.

 


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: NateRuvin on May 04, 2022, 08:55:12 AM
I'm so excited for this new version of Sounds of Summer.

I was very impressed with the new mix of GV. I'll always prefer the mono version (#BACKTOMONO !!!) but it's fun to compare, or listen to different versions to mix it up.

The original Sounds of Summer might be my favorite album ever (if comps count). I've listened to it almost every day for years. It's a perfect track listing of songs with great quality.

If I made the tracklisting, I would've certainly included the title tracks from SIP and Still Cruisin to respect that era, and probably Long Tall Texan, WOTS, or Caroline No from S&S. Also of course stuff from TWGMTR. It is an inaccurate representation of their career to end at 1988. Just for the legacy of all these decades of music making, I would've included songs from the 90's and 2012.

However, I don't wanna sound like I'm bitching or complaining, because at the end of the day, I'm ecstatic by the songs chosen for the new release. An amazing combination of hits and fan favorites. Of course we all have a few that we wish were there, but the fact that this set includes great stuff like Devoted To You, Farmer's Daughter, Where I Belong, Disney Girls, etc just has me over the moon with excitement.

I've cherished the original SOS since I was a little boy when my grandma gave me the original CD, with that great orange packaging. Now to be an adult, and to have had the album be a daily presence in my life all the way through, it feels very fitting to be getting a new updated version with as much care and promo as this one is getting.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on May 04, 2022, 10:21:57 AM
There are some pretty clear reasons we’d never see SIP tracks on such a set, and I don’t think it needs those tracks.

I think at this stage, given the landscape of how people who this set targets tend to listen to stuff, it’s not useful to try to go strictly chronological, or to be beholden to making sure every album or lead single or whatever is included. That’s how you end up with “Peggy Sue” on “Greatest Hits Vol. 3: Best of the Brother Years.”

Nobody needs “Stars and Stripes” tracks on this. That’s like the 27th rung of tracks hardcore fans collect. (And I’m not even sure BRI has ownership of those tracks; it might still be held by whatever entity holds all of the stuff from that “River North” label or whatever it was).

Obviously, such sets never have the precise set of tracks any one person would pick. But even if we get down to saying, “Okay, let’s ditch “Pom Pom Playgirl” for something”, I could think of a hundred tracks before I got down to S&S or SIP, or most of “Still Cruisin’” for that matter, and I say that as a fan who bows to nobody in my enjoyment of a lot of weird, deepcut, obscure era stuff. Like, I’d really like a multi-disc deluxe set of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive.” But I also know objectively that younger, newer fans tracking this stuff on Spotify aren’t going to be excited by an alternate take of “Oh, Darlin’”, just like they’re not going to be into SIP stuff (which at this stage with that same drum sample running over and over sounds more dated than the BB ’85 album), or the truly awful “Stars and Stripes.” If they want to pull those great backing vocals off the S&S version of “Caroline, No” and sync it to a good Carl lead vocal or something, I’d love to see that. Anything else, I think S&S can be kept as far away from any compilation as possible.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Bedroom Tapes on May 04, 2022, 01:38:46 PM
Also coming soon!

https://www.amazon.com/Brian-Wilson-Promised-Original-Soundtrack/dp/B09YP21HV9/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2QB9B6PY3XIAM&keywords=long+promised+road+brian+wilson+soundtrack&qid=1651695028&sprefix=%2Caps%2C749&sr=8-1


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Awesoman on May 05, 2022, 07:11:31 AM
There are some pretty clear reasons we’d never see SIP tracks on such a set, and I don’t think it needs those tracks.

I think at this stage, given the landscape of how people who this set targets tend to listen to stuff, it’s not useful to try to go strictly chronological, or to be beholden to making sure every album or lead single or whatever is included. That’s how you end up with “Peggy Sue” on “Greatest Hits Vol. 3: Best of the Brother Years.”

Nobody needs “Stars and Stripes” tracks on this. That’s like the 27th rung of tracks hardcore fans collect. (And I’m not even sure BRI has ownership of those tracks; it might still be held by whatever entity holds all of the stuff from that “River North” label or whatever it was).

Obviously, such sets never have the precise set of tracks any one person would pick. But even if we get down to saying, “Okay, let’s ditch “Pom Pom Playgirl” for something”, I could think of a hundred tracks before I got down to S&S or SIP, or most of “Still Cruisin’” for that matter, and I say that as a fan who bows to nobody in my enjoyment of a lot of weird, deepcut, obscure era stuff. Like, I’d really like a multi-disc deluxe set of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive.” But I also know objectively that younger, newer fans tracking this stuff on Spotify aren’t going to be excited by an alternate take of “Oh, Darlin’”, just like they’re not going to be into SIP stuff (which at this stage with that same drum sample running over and over sounds more dated than the BB ’85 album), or the truly awful “Stars and Stripes.” If they want to pull those great backing vocals off the S&S version of “Caroline, No” and sync it to a good Carl lead vocal or something, I’d love to see that. Anything else, I think S&S can be kept as far away from any compilation as possible.


Agreed.  In all honesty though I wouldn't mind some kind of compilation covering or at least including stuff from the 80's/90's era.  As maligned as these decades were, there's still some "not bad" content that has been out of print.  Guilty pleasures such as the stomp-like beat of "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" to other tracks like "Chasin' The Sky", "Happy Endings", "Crocodile Rock" or even the slightly cringey "Problem Child" have been out in the ether for decades.  Even if these songs aren't exactly remarkable it would still be nice to have them if for only completionist's sake.  Maybe by the time Still Cruisin' hits a significant anniversary they can put out a proper album with all these lost tracks in tow.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Cabinessenceking on May 10, 2022, 12:13:10 PM
There are some pretty clear reasons we’d never see SIP tracks on such a set, and I don’t think it needs those tracks.

I think at this stage, given the landscape of how people who this set targets tend to listen to stuff, it’s not useful to try to go strictly chronological, or to be beholden to making sure every album or lead single or whatever is included. That’s how you end up with “Peggy Sue” on “Greatest Hits Vol. 3: Best of the Brother Years.”

Nobody needs “Stars and Stripes” tracks on this. That’s like the 27th rung of tracks hardcore fans collect. (And I’m not even sure BRI has ownership of those tracks; it might still be held by whatever entity holds all of the stuff from that “River North” label or whatever it was).

Obviously, such sets never have the precise set of tracks any one person would pick. But even if we get down to saying, “Okay, let’s ditch “Pom Pom Playgirl” for something”, I could think of a hundred tracks before I got down to S&S or SIP, or most of “Still Cruisin’” for that matter, and I say that as a fan who bows to nobody in my enjoyment of a lot of weird, deepcut, obscure era stuff. Like, I’d really like a multi-disc deluxe set of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive.” But I also know objectively that younger, newer fans tracking this stuff on Spotify aren’t going to be excited by an alternate take of “Oh, Darlin’”, just like they’re not going to be into SIP stuff (which at this stage with that same drum sample running over and over sounds more dated than the BB ’85 album), or the truly awful “Stars and Stripes.” If they want to pull those great backing vocals off the S&S version of “Caroline, No” and sync it to a good Carl lead vocal or something, I’d love to see that. Anything else, I think S&S can be kept as far away from any compilation as possible.


Agreed.  In all honesty though I wouldn't mind some kind of compilation covering or at least including stuff from the 80's/90's era.  As maligned as these decades were, there's still some "not bad" content that has been out of print.  Guilty pleasures such as the stomp-like beat of "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" to other tracks like "Chasin' The Sky", "Happy Endings", "Crocodile Rock" or even the slightly cringey "Problem Child" have been out in the ether for decades.  Even if these songs aren't exactly remarkable it would still be nice to have them if for only completionist's sake.  Maybe by the time Still Cruisin' hits a significant anniversary they can put out a proper album with all these lost tracks in tow.

Those are all awful though and don't belong on any compilation. If anything the few decent releases they had like Somewhere Near Japan should be brought forward as the rare highlights in their otherwise abysmal later catalogue.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on May 10, 2022, 12:38:00 PM
The 80s rando tracks are hit and miss of course. “Chasin’ the Sky” isn’t bad; it’s got some nice vocals. A few tracks on “Still Cruisin’” are good; most of the “new” tracks are at least okay. “Problem Child” is awful. “Happy Endings” is like tenth-string Bruce sleepy ballad time. “Rock and Roll to the Rescue” is…. a song. Should be available somewhere.

I don’t think much of any of this stuff belongs on career-spanning comps. But I’d be happy to see the stuff be made available in some form. Like, just putting “Still Cruisin’” back on streaming and digital purchase platforms would be very easy I think. I’d love to hear that album remixed. But I don’t think they’re ever going to invest that much time or effort or money into it.

A comp of all the weird, random tracks would be fine. They’d probably have to go digital-only. Nobody but a few hundred hardcores are going to buy a multi-disc comp that has like multiple mixes of “Problem Child” and the “Percadella Mix” of “Rock and Roll to the Rescue.”

It’s strange. SIP not being in print makes total sense (I’m always for keeping everything in print and available, however awful it might be…..with the exception of that Locash track….), but “Still Cruisin’” has “Kokomo” on it and did go “Gold.” How many gold-record-awarded full albums from 1989 are literally unavailable in any form right now?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: monkee knutz on May 19, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
I still can't find a comprehensive list of the remixes for this set. Anyone? Thx!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on May 20, 2022, 06:46:54 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3NGVPumQ25EAX81MNvp&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8Zdup7t4QKCFZdEISoPdOb5uFQ0Mpd4YK5hfy_hzhVWA&oe=628BB6D3)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3c_0r3f8wVIAX_ALcwL&tn=rZD5lIjmSwHblnDH&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-hPUJV7nSgaiNhUuEoonWZyH7o4CNUzpwliSTmrDjiXA&oe=628D80AB)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9KHoK_am_0MAX8ubf-U&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8BX9HSNtwZtFyucB-vsWgDro9croS6OqDPLK8EQ4kJbg&oe=628CC00A)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=NUzB6cIpmq8AX9KyFUH&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-K7MeFoL2FXe2iTOgOgWG3nCxuxlLSK4260cUi-m14uA&oe=628C954D)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=c7MbjR1sH_cAX8bDF6L&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-hn61RKV_XBwHkIUj2uJ3QNS7qtPWdaaLZSLDRiptDGg&oe=628D3049)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sme_6lfljb8AX_zXJi6&tn=rZD5lIjmSwHblnDH&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8RB0I649tZ3URnZNB-2Gktm1hA3-8apJoIF6-W1mu_xg&oe=628D116D)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on May 20, 2022, 12:45:52 PM
Have Pet Sounds songs not had updated official remixes since 1996 then?

Oh no, have I given them ideas in asking that...


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on May 20, 2022, 03:46:11 PM
A few PS stereo mixes have been tweaked (most noticeably WIBN which had Mike's bridge vocal reinserted), but they generally use the '96 remixes when they want stereo versions. Which I'm fine with; the '96 PS stereo remix is very good.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Sam_BFC on May 20, 2022, 09:04:03 PM
Yes hard to see how the 1996 stereo mix of Pet Sounds could be improved upon.

I wonder why Let Us Go On This Way gets a new mix but The Night Was So Young doesn't.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 27, 2022, 09:52:47 PM
THE BEACH BOYS SHARE STERLING NEW MIX OF CLASSIC TRACK "SHUT DOWN" TO HELP SOUNDTRACK THE UNOFFICIAL KICKOFF TO SUMMER

https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/beach-boys-share-sterling-new-mix-classic-track-shut-down-help-soundtrack-unofficial


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Lonely Summer on June 03, 2022, 09:33:43 PM
Actually, I've been disappointed that previous compilations have ignored the 80's, except for Kokomo. Even on a big box like MIC, it's like the 80s/90s never existed. Someday, someway, we need to have a comp that collects all the stray tracks like Chasin' the Sky, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Still Cruisin', Somewhere Near Japan, Crocodile Rock, Runaway.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 06, 2022, 06:06:12 AM
I think it would be nice to have stray 80s and 90s tracks collected somewhere. But I don't worry about it too much compared to getting unreleased material out there, because it's exceedingly easy to track down all those 80s and 90s tracks. It's not difficult to track down a copy of the "Still Cruisin'" album (or "Summer in Paradise" for that matter), nor the other random tracks. I suspect most if not all of them are on YouTube as well. Other than the annoyance of not having those tracks on a Spotify playlist, I don't see those tracks not being currently in print as hugely egregious. It's a little weird "Still Cruisin'" hasn't remained in print, yes.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on June 08, 2022, 04:48:48 AM
Actually, I've been disappointed that previous compilations have ignored the 80's, except for Kokomo. Even on a big box like MIC, it's like the 80s/90s never existed. Someday, someway, we need to have a comp that collects all the stray tracks like Chasin' the Sky, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Still Cruisin', Somewhere Near Japan, Crocodile Rock, Runaway.


Not only that but HQ versions of the videos of those songs. Some are in excellent quality while others like Somewhere in Japan exist only with prostage stamp resolution video taped off VH1. Someone must have them in a clean, HQ version.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 08, 2022, 06:44:00 AM
I'm sure all of the 80s and 90s stuff still exists in broadcast quality either in the archives of BRI/Iconic, Capitol, and/or MTV/VH1, etc.

But almost all of the BBs music videos are really awful. Like, "California Dreamin'" is okay, I guess "Somewhere Near Japan" isn't too awful (though I haven't watched it in years), and pretty much everything else is bad if not full throttle embarrassing. I'm still convinced someone held Carl's dog for ransom to get him to do that "Crocodile Rock" video.

I think Brian's face says it best:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119990761_2680051242264889_6620975168675640963_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=xKyfO8H2DVAAX-94OcD&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_koudvm07DdY_DE-9dVy1WEnOe3Yyza9PccbjLanElVg&oe=62C67E19)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: UEF on June 08, 2022, 07:48:37 AM
I’d support the remastered release of those latter videos if only it meant being able to watch a documentary about the Beach Boys without having to see them messing about in that sodding swimming pool


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 08, 2022, 08:44:33 AM
There's plenty of archival BB footage to use for a documentary without resorting to footage from the "Rock and Roll to the Rescue" video.

The only purpose footage like that or the "Crocodile Rock" video would serve in a doc would be if they got into some hard truths about how tacky and novelty the act became by the 90s.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: William Bowe on June 09, 2022, 09:27:26 AM
A "2021 Mix" of Marcella is up on Spotify (at least in my time zone). It's ... different. Very different.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Pablo. on June 09, 2022, 08:25:02 PM
Yes, VERY different. But I like it, although sometimes it's too much contemporary sounding. An alternative to the muddy sounding original mix. Brian is the high voice on the "Hey Marcella"s (like at 1:16), right?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: phirnis on June 10, 2022, 12:49:09 AM
It sounds OK but it's not something I'll play again too often I think. Love the original mix, despite its 'muddiness' - easily my favorite BB song from the early 70s era. This new mix sounds like they were trying way too hard to make every little sonic detail stick out. If it'll help people (re)discover the song, that's great.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 10, 2022, 02:52:08 AM
Honestly I love the new mix. And I can see why some dislike it, but to me it’s great hearing this song with a completely new spin. It’s not yet another digital remaster of an original mix, this is a completely new way to listen to the song.

Hard to explain but that compression gives it a crunch(?) that makes me want to crank this up in the car. The vocals are really out front giving it the vibe of their earlier tunes.

Really glad to see Mark/Alan/etc stepping into the unknown, knowing that something like this won’t go over well with some in the fanbase. I’m sure they read the criticism about the ‘Sail Plane Song’ from MiC, but I’m glad it doesn’t deter them from keeping an open mind about new mixes.

I can’t wait for next Friday!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 10, 2022, 03:05:40 AM
It sounds OK but it's not something I'll play again too often I think. Love the original mix, despite its 'muddiness' - easily my favorite BB song from the early 70s era. This new mix sounds like they were trying way too hard to make every little sonic detail stick out. If it'll help people (re)discover the song, that's great.

Ever since I heard it for the first time, I’ve thought that CatP was their best mixed album (even if it does get a little muddy at times). There is so much sonic creativity going on in the compositions, and yet almost each element is perfectly represented in the mix. For lack of a better term, it is dazzling and can’t really be improved upon.

I wonder if Mark & Alan felt the same way, and just wanted to try something totally different.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 10, 2022, 06:31:59 AM
I love the clarity and punch that a new, very *different* remix can bring. I like that aspect of the new mix. But I feel like some of the benefit of that up-front clarity and punch is removed by kind of cavernous echo/reverb sound that's been laid on top of that. It's like unearthing all of this cool stuff on the multi-tracks that was buried before, finally heard with clarity, but then someone hit the "opera hall" reverb setting on some, but not all, of the tracks. It kinda sounds like hearing a really clean, clear remix, but like on FM radio instead of a clean digital source.

I think I can hear what the goal was; in order to avoid the pretty flat, under-mixed drums found on the original mix, perhaps just doing the dry multi-tracks pumped way up into the mix wasn't enough, and that extra reverb can give the drums extra punch. If this song needed one thing most of all, it was much more punchy drums. So perhaps that was required to get there.

So overall, I have no problem and in fact quite like that this remix sounds very different. I just wish it was more dry and felt more close-up.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 10, 2022, 06:32:55 AM
Here it is on YouTube as an alternative channel to hear it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PyCY3hWZ60


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 10, 2022, 09:18:57 AM
A full podcast featuring an new, entertaining interview with Howie Edelson; the vast majority is about the Beach Boys and upcoming releases (Sounds of Summer, the archival sets, etc.):

Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bSHeJB65I3nUbp4eiFsz8?si=YSmMFyPgTO-3Mst6QcO33A&fbclid=IwAR0MiXsihIyHMNq1qtz0PHDJsvLzGfhMlDTyauBrZuqXaJB5zEi_maAEN84&nd=1

or

Google
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xODY4Nzg0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xMDc2NzI2NA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiwzuehpKP4AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQNQ

Probably available on other podcast services as well.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Rocker on June 11, 2022, 02:51:25 AM
Here it is on YouTube as an alternative channel to hear it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PyCY3hWZ60


Thanks! I have to listen to this with headphones or better speakers. But I really don't like Carl's "ooh-ooho-ohh"'s. Good that they left that off from the original. It's just like the "wha-whas" on the alt. "Help me, Rhonda". Just too much.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Awesoman on June 11, 2022, 04:45:28 AM
The new version of "Marcella" has a pretty aggressive mix that allows you to hear things more clearly than before.  And there are some noticeable differences in the vocals and instrumental parts.  Listening on the earphones the tracks are all over the place in the stereo spectrum.  

I'd love to hear a mix that stands somewhere in the middle of the original mix and this new version.  Something that sounds clean and not so treble-heavy.

You can download the lossless version here:

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/the-very-best-of-the-beach-boys-sounds-of-summer-the-beach-boys/ke3695t4x7xyb


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: phirnis on June 11, 2022, 12:26:11 PM
Here it is on YouTube as an alternative channel to hear it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PyCY3hWZ60


Thanks! I have to listen to this with headphones or better speakers. But I really don't like Carl's "ooh-ooho-ohh"'s. Good that they left that off from the original. It's just like the "wha-whas" on the alt. "Help me, Rhonda". Just too much.

I fully agree. Less is more - the Beach Boys, despite their lush arrangements, always knew this.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Outtasight! on June 11, 2022, 01:03:27 PM
I’m loving it. It’s bit like the recent remix of Cahoots by The Band. It’s a completely different way of experiencing the song and for me it works incredibly well. It compliments the original mix.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 11, 2022, 04:54:14 PM
I’m loving it. It’s bit like the recent remix of Cahoots by The Band. It’s a completely different way of experiencing the song and for me it works incredibly well. It compliments the original mix.

I think it’s better than the mix on the original release, myself.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Musketeer on June 12, 2022, 06:57:02 AM
I’m loving it. It’s bit like the recent remix of Cahoots by The Band. It’s a completely different way of experiencing the song and for me it works incredibly well. It compliments the original mix.

I think it’s better than the mix on the original release, myself.
I like it too.  I would be interested in someone more knowledgeable in recording to talk about the toning down, almost  eliminating what I think is a zither in the original recording. That is why I like this mix and always preferred the live version to the original one.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 13, 2022, 05:23:31 PM
Yes, VERY different. But I like it, although sometimes it's too much contemporary sounding. An alternative to the muddy sounding original mix. Brian is the high voice on the "Hey Marcella"s (like at 1:16), right?

Yes , it’s Brian, who is much more audible on this mix.

I’m still not buying its Jack Reiley on the tag’s “Marcella Hey” part. 1) Jack told me it was Brian 2) It sounds like Brian’s midrange voice during this period . 3) can’t imagine Jack NOT taking credit for something he did, when (let’s be frank) at the time he was known for doing quite the opposite


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 07:03:17 AM
A full podcast featuring an new, entertaining interview with Howie Edelson; the vast majority is about the Beach Boys and upcoming releases (Sounds of Summer, the archival sets, etc.):

Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bSHeJB65I3nUbp4eiFsz8?si=YSmMFyPgTO-3Mst6QcO33A&fbclid=IwAR0MiXsihIyHMNq1qtz0PHDJsvLzGfhMlDTyauBrZuqXaJB5zEi_maAEN84&nd=1

or

Google
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xODY4Nzg0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xMDc2NzI2NA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiwzuehpKP4AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQNQ

Probably available on other podcast services as well.

Thanks for linking this!

A few thoughts:

- first time I've heard Howie speak his thoughts and really elaborate on where he is coming from. It's great to get some background and awesome to hear the passion he has for this band.
- I love knowing that such caring people are in control of this stuff, we are incredibly lucky fans!
- cannot wait for the CatP, Holland set!! Holland has got to be my favorite era outside of mid-60s stuff.

One thing I want to point out; Howie's thought that "65 year old people aren't buying new music....we have to be aiming at the 23 year old, or this thing dies"

I don't know enough about the market/demographics to really have a meaningful opinion on this, but it is my understanding that the 65 year olds are kinda the only ones actually buying music. I would think that the 23 year olds are mostly streaming music via Spotify, whereas the die-hard older fans are actually buying the sets. I could be completely off on that, but that's my perception of what goes on. And this is coming from someone who at the age of 23 (just 10 some years ago) was spending $100s (if not thousands) on Beach Boys stuff (from books to CDs to boxsets to movies). But from my perspective the market has changed, and more and more kids are just streaming.

I very much agree with Howie that the aim should be at 23 year olds because they are the future of the fandom, but part of me thinks that you can't sell the same type of boxsets that sold 10 years ago to a new generation that doesn't even own a CD player (and many don't own vinyl players). Part of me thinks that the future is an official Beach Boys music app. The main stuff is still on Spotify, but the good stuff, the deep deep cuts, alternate mixes, the studio chatter, insider interviews, monthly giveaways, a new song or small EP every month or two is there for every fan at for $5 a month subscription.

I know people are seemingly overwhelmed by subscriptions, but it is the future and I think it's here to stay. We subscribe to hear music, watch TV, keep a balanced budget, etc etc. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that die-hard fans would pay $5 a month to have access to some amazing continuous content brought to you by a team that really does care about this music a lot.

My basic point is that as generations go by and the fandom evolves, so do the mediums in which we listen to and interact with the music.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 14, 2022, 07:42:02 AM
A full podcast featuring an new, entertaining interview with Howie Edelson; the vast majority is about the Beach Boys and upcoming releases (Sounds of Summer, the archival sets, etc.):

Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bSHeJB65I3nUbp4eiFsz8?si=YSmMFyPgTO-3Mst6QcO33A&fbclid=IwAR0MiXsihIyHMNq1qtz0PHDJsvLzGfhMlDTyauBrZuqXaJB5zEi_maAEN84&nd=1

or

Google
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xODY4Nzg0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xMDc2NzI2NA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiwzuehpKP4AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQNQ

Probably available on other podcast services as well.

Thanks for linking this!

A few thoughts:

- first time I've heard Howie speak his thoughts and really elaborate on where he is coming from. It's great to get some background and awesome to hear the passion he has for this band.
- I love knowing that such caring people are in control of this stuff, we are incredibly lucky fans!
- cannot wait for the CatP, Holland set!! Holland has got to be my favorite era outside of mid-60s stuff.

One thing I want to point out; Howie's thought that "65 year old people aren't buying new music....we have to be aiming at the 23 year old, or this thing dies"

I don't know enough about the market/demographics to really have a meaningful opinion on this, but it is my understanding that the 65 year olds are kinda the only ones actually buying music. I would think that the 23 year olds are mostly streaming music via Spotify, whereas the die-hard older fans are actually buying the sets. I could be completely off on that, but that's my perception of what goes on. And this is coming from someone who at the age of 23 (just 10 some years ago) was spending $100s (if not thousands) on Beach Boys stuff (from books to CDs to boxsets to movies). But from my perspective the market has changed, and more and more kids are just streaming.

I very much agree with Howie that the aim should be at 23 year olds because they are the future of the fandom, but part of me thinks that you can't sell the same type of boxsets that sold 10 years ago to a new generation that doesn't even own a CD player (and many don't own vinyl players). Part of me thinks that the future is an official Beach Boys music app. The main stuff is still on Spotify, but the good stuff, the deep deep cuts, alternate mixes, the studio chatter, insider interviews, monthly giveaways, a new song or small EP every month or two is there for every fan at for $5 a month subscription.

I know people are seemingly overwhelmed by subscriptions, but it is the future and I think it's here to stay. We subscribe to hear music, watch TV, keep a balanced budget, etc etc. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that die-hard fans would pay $5 a month to have access to some amazing continuous content brought to you by a team that really does care about this music a lot.

My basic point is that as generations go by and the fandom evolves, so do the mediums in which we listen to and interact with the music.

I think what Howie meant was that the Boomers don’t buy new music, just reissues of their favorites. The trouble with that is that demographic is, literally and figuratively, dying out.  It makes sense to want to target a younger audience.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 14, 2022, 07:44:07 AM
And let me say this. I’m glad discussion of the remix and the direction that BRI/IAG is taking has been civil and respectful. Unlike other places.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 14, 2022, 07:59:43 AM
Howie’s a deep cuts guy and his passion shows on this project.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 14, 2022, 08:03:42 AM
Endless Harmony in trashing Howie… ::)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 14, 2022, 08:17:13 AM
Endless Harmony in trashing Howie… ::)

Yep.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 08:55:32 AM
The mentality I've seen elsewhere that, for instance, the original mixes are unimpeachably better and it’s “arrogant” to say a remix sounds better, is especially frustrating. First of all, this type of thing is being said about remixes that haven’t been heard yet (in the case of something like “Baby Blue”). Also, the original mixes aren’t being replaced. But more importantly, you’d have to be paying no attention to the history of this band to not understand that they’ve often been the *worst* judges of their stuff, whether we’re talking about what to release versus not release, or mixes, etc.

Some remixes sound better than others. I don’t like them all, and in some cases certain types of material will yield better shots at amazing-sounding remixes (for instance, some of the mid-60s stuff has enough echo/reverb printed onto the tapes that we’d never be able to get a bone-dry, sounds-like-it-was-recorded-yesterday type of remix).

But many artists, including the Beach Boys, have sometimes put out sub-par mixes, or made weird mix choices. It’s kind of like those last few Lennon albums leading up through 1975. They were mixed kind of muddy and almost in mono, and the stereo remixes on that stuff sounds far, far better.

In some cases, we have amazing material being written by amazing writers, and they’re putting in amazing performances, but then the mix didn’t serve the material well enough. This could have happened for a bunch of reasons.

I feel like while constructive discussion/criticism of remixes is fine and in fact can be interesting and enlightening, a lot of the carping I’ve seen in other corners of the internet are often missing the point. They just don’t get it. They just don’t understand how things work, whether it’s the industry, or buying or listening trends, demographics, or how things work in the BRI/Iconic world. They also seem to sometimes not have seemingly ever had to work on large projects with a contingent of people where a lot of compromising and horse trading and productive back-and-forth happens behind the scenes. As Howie mentions in the interview, it’s a “think tank” sort of scenario, which is WHAT HARDCORE FANS HAVE ALWAYS WANTED AND NEEDED. It’s not some random old EMI executive, handed a job “without portfolio” looking for something to futz with just to have something to justify their job, coming in with no knowledge of the Beach Boys and deciding what the CD should be is an entire CD of “Kokomo” remixes. It’s a collective of people who both know and love the band as well as anybody, and also know how both the industry the internecine world of BRI/Iconic/Capitol, etc. works.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 09:07:16 AM
I think what Howie meant was that the Boomers don’t buy new music, just reissues of their favorites. The trouble with that is that demographic is, literally and figuratively, dying out.  It makes sense to want to target a younger audience.

Oooh that makes more sense. But yeah I do agree with what he is saying though. Targeting the younger audience is the way to go.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 09:14:14 AM
Endless Harmony in trashing Howie… ::)

Yep.

Endless Negativity is more like it. Honestly I am super excited for the new mixes (especially the 30 tracks in Dolby Atmos) - I have been blasting Marcella nonstop both with studio headphones, AirPods, and my home stereo. I love the bass that comes through on the home stereo, and if the other mixes are like this I think we'll be in for a great new way to hear the music. And if we don't like the mixes, guess what? We have years of vinyl, pirated tracks, reissued vinyl, reissued CDs, boxsets, etc with ALL THESE SAME SONGS in whatever way you prefer to hear them. Mindblowing to me that fans are having a temper tantrum over this set.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 10:37:54 AM
Whoa, catching up on the Endless Bummer threads just now :o I hadn't been there in a few days (a great few days it was) and didn't realize that a hellstorm of childish hissy fits had rained down upon Howie from the "fans". I thought y'all were just referring to the regular whining that had been going on there since the new tracks started dropping.

I feel like while constructive discussion/criticism of remixes is fine and in fact can be interesting and enlightening, a lot of the carping I’ve seen in other corners of the internet are often missing the point. They just don’t get it. They just don’t understand how things work, whether it’s the industry, or buying or listening trends, demographics, or how things work in the BRI/Iconic world. They also seem to sometimes not have seemingly ever had to work on large projects with a contingent of people where a lot of compromising and horse trading and productive back-and-forth happens behind the scenes. As Howie mentions in the interview, it’s a “think tank” sort of scenario, which is WHAT HARDCORE FANS HAVE ALWAYS WANTED AND NEEDED. It’s not some random old EMI executive, handed a job “without portfolio” looking for something to futz with just to have something to justify their job, coming in with no knowledge of the Beach Boys and deciding what the CD should be is an entire CD of “Kokomo” remixes. It’s a collective of people who both know and love the band as well as anybody, and also know how both the industry the internecine world of BRI/Iconic/Capitol, etc. works.

I know some are actually clueless, but I'm sure on some level there are politics at play here from certain posters. Reading some of that garbage over there, it's straight up insane.

Thank goodness no one here will determine that my opinion on the insanity of 15+ pages and 3 threads of shitting on Howie Edelson is me gaslighting everyone....the freakin nerve :lol

My favorite post there: "And you guys go on about that “other board”. Jesus Christ." - Debonbon :lol


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 10:57:30 AM
I just can’t fathom why actual legit fans would be so indignant about that Howie interview. It was fun and informative and for those of us who have heard Howie on his “Fabcast” show, it’s cool to finally hear that same ethos applied to talking about the Beach Boys.

To be frank, I think there are some oldtimer fans who haven’t had anything challenged ever about the way they look at the Beach Boys. There is a segment of fans who sees absolutely nothing wrong with the Beach Boys brand being “Malt Shop Memories.” I don’t know what can be done to help those people out. Obviously, people should like or not like whatever they want, and on whatever terms. If they like the Beach Boys being thought of as being culturally stuck in the mode of a teen living in the 50s, or a brand of elderly band members reminiscing about same, then have at it.

But the discussion about this new compilation, and what is discussed in that interview, is not about any one fan’s preferences. It’s implicit that everybody can and should like whatever they like. It’s about how to right the wrongs of how this band has been mischaracterized and misperceived (both the fault of the band themselves at various points, and others), and how to make this stuff *RELEVANT* to a modern, young audience. And to make the *materal* itself relevant; to show people it’s the band themselves that was and is cool (as opposed to Locash collabs and reminding everybody every five minutes that the Beach Boys know John Stamos); coolness-by-association doesn’t work and even if it did, it’s dumb when you’ve got that Sunflower-through-Holland material sitting right there.




Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 14, 2022, 12:05:18 PM
Yeah, it's a bad scene over there.

I can't take it personally. There's so much anger, frustration and DEEP PAIN at that space.
And there's also ZERO concept of how anything goes down -- they're under the impression I'm berating Linett to make mixes "modern for the kids!!!!"
(For those in the know -- imagine how ABSURD that would look like. . . )

It's a handful of remixes on a mondo comp and it turns into  days of character assassination.
DAYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Some man with a fake name there actually told me to "run away from my problems like I always do!"

Okay?

It's not cool. It's not healthy. And it's definitely not for me.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Sam_BFC on June 14, 2022, 01:13:09 PM
As I suggested over at Endless Harmony, things did spiral into a frenzy over the weekend. However it is a shame that legitimate discussion around the creative direction of recent releases has been undermined as a result of that frenzy.

I like that the new version of Marcella reveals new details/parts that were either absent from or mixed down within the original release. I also like that it rocks a more. But I sympathize and to some extent agree with the view that the high end has been overhyped somewhat.

More generally, we should also be able to discuss the relative merits of say how the Sunshine Tomorrow release "sounds" compared to Feel Flows, especially as critics as well as fanatics have commented on apparently negative aspects of the latter: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971- (https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971-). These discussions are fun when done properly and I would have been very interested to hear what Howie thinks of the credible aspects of what has been argued over the last few days.

It should also be noted that those making a fuss over at Endless Harmony are not all old timer fans. At least one is a young fan who may come off a little brash at times but also offers a fresh and important enthusiasm to proceedings.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 01:16:17 PM
Those who are familiar with what I talk about or don't talk about here, and how I talk about things, will know that A) I've rarely discussed the EH board here for a wide array of reasons, and B) I've never had an issue with not just blindly agreeing with any or every "insider" that posts anywhere about the Beach Boys.

That all being said, that thread over there is embarrassing. If it wasn't so gross, it would be a great example of that old "wow, that escalated quickly" meme.  A bunch of mostly seemingly brand-new posters clearly looking for something to fight about and someone to go after.

It's like, tell me you don't know anything about the Beach Boys or their history without telling me you don't know anything about them. The hill to die on is your lack of preference for like the 400th stereo remix in the history of the BBs catalog on a reissue of a compilation?

Unless Howie or Mark personally came and confiscated all of your old CDs and mixes, then what are you even talking about?

Why is it in the DNA of like a certain percent of Beach Boys "fans" to always *entirely miss the point* of everything? To try to burn down multi-disc archival collections fans have been dying for (and in some cases died waiting to hear) for DECADES because of some pedantic, weird pet peeve fetish?

To try to steer this in a better direction, I have to admit I had kind of lost track of how soon this thing is due to be released. Lest some pedants forget, it's filled with life-changing, life-affirming music.

And I really hope Howie (and Alan and Mark and anybody else working on these things) isn't discouraged from doing more podcasts/interviews, etc.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 01:25:06 PM
Yeah, it's a bad scene over there.

I can't take it personally. There's so much anger, frustration and DEEP PAIN at that space.
And there's also ZERO concept of how anything goes down -- they're under the impression I'm berating Linett to make mixes "modern for the kids!!!!"
(For those in the know -- imagine how ABSURD that would look like. . . )

It's a handful of remixes on a mondo comp and it turns into  days of character assassination.
DAYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Some man with a fake name there actually told me to "run away from my problems like I always do!"

Okay?

It's not cool. It's not healthy. And it's definitely not for me.


Can't wait to see the line-by-line breakdown thread of this post on Ended Harmony :lol

....

Oh Jeesh just checked and there's been a thread made about this post there. Seemingly some regret that yeah, some people on the EH forum are negative as hell...we couldn't decipher that from the bullshit rumors about Melinda? Or the trash talk there about the members here on SS? Or the doxing of a moderator here on SS? No, apparently this is the first ever time that negativity has crept onto the EH forum....yeah ::)
_____

Honestly Howie, it was a great interview and I'm glad you did it. Thank goodness most average fans have no clue about these message boards, and just want to hear some good music. The set looks gorgeous, the 3 tracks sound amazing and I'd bet most fans would agree. Looking forward to where the next decade takes us in the fandom!

To try to steer this in a better direction, I have to admit I had kind of lost track of how soon this thing is due to be released. Lest some pedants forget, it's filled with life-changing, life-affirming music.

Just what, 3 days?? I can't wait. The new stereo version of 'Don't Worry Baby' has me so excited, as well as the rest of the lineup of course.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 01:26:55 PM
As I suggested over at Endless Harmony, things did spiral into a frenzy over the weekend. However it is a shame that legitimate discussion around the creative direction of recent releases has been undermined as a result of that frenzy.

I like that the new version of Marcella reveals new details/parts that were either absent from or mixed down within the original release. I also like that it rocks a more. But I sympathize and to some extent agree with the view that the high end has been overhyped somewhat.

More generally, we should also be able to discuss the relative merits of say how the Sunshine Tomorrow release "sounds" compared to Feel Flows, especially as critics as well as fanatics have commented on apparently negative aspects of the latter: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971- (https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971-). These discussions are fun when done properly and I would have been very interested to hear what Howie thinks of the credible aspects of what has been argued over the last few days.

It should also be noted that those making a fuss over at Endless Harmony are not all old timer fans. At least one is a young fan who may come off a little brash at times but also offers a fresh and important enthusiasm to proceedings.

I think discussing all of the minutiae is great, and I enjoy it. But audiophiles are often coming from a *completely different place* than even hardcore fans of the band.

There is a point where harping on the mastering of a set like "Feel Flows" much more (if not exclusively) than the content of the set, is a clear case of "Missing the point-itis" that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, for what it's worth, that Paste Magazine paragraph isn't even a full review. Spending more like like 5% of any writing on the "Feel Flows" sets on the mastering of the original albums on the set is very much "missing the point" in my opinion, especially when there are 20 other masterings of those albums to choose from, from old vinyl to new vinyl to numerous CD pressings, SACDs, and so on.

If someone doesn't get that the point of a set like "Feel Flows" is to showcase the era/material and the wealth of amazing unreleased material, and that putting the original albums on there is like just an extra thing to contextualize it all, then again, that's missing the point, or missing the big picture.

I'm not saying anybody should or shouldn't discuss anything, but I'd suggest the Steve Hoffman forum for those who can't get past just talking about the mastering.

For what it's worth, I know my s**t somewhat well when it comes to the audiophile realm, and there's nothing anywhere near problematic enough on the "Feel Flows" set to make me not spend *all* of my time appreciating the ALBUMS worth of amazing unreleased material on the set.

All of this makes even less sense when it comes to "Sounds of Summer", which is the broadest, widest product that is targeted the *least* towards any fan that is hardcore enough to own multiple copies of most or all of the band's albums.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 14, 2022, 01:37:24 PM
The new mixes are awesome, the Howie interview is great and informative, and I'm excited about the future of the brand with folks like Howie, Alan, and Mark working towards a common goal of reenergizing the brand, and having people look at the band in a fresh new way.

And yes it will definitely take marketing towards younger music fans in order for the music of this band to continue thriving and growing; this small amount of disgruntled older fans who somehow feel "left out" really need to get over themselves.

Remixes are awesome because they don't replace the originals at all. It's the closest way we can get to a brand new album by our favorite band to exist... we can't go back in time to get them to create new music in their prime - but we can fortunately re-examine the material in a completely different way *if we choose to listen to the new mixes, which of course is optional*, and I'm all for it.

The way some people are ridiculously reacting, one would think this is a George Lucas type of situation where the original mixes are being made unavailable. Absolutely not the case here.

I've often thought that releasing and selling the original multi tracks as ProTools sessions might be the final frontier for getting blood from a stone with regards to the old songs… I suppose these new remixes are essentially a sample platter of what that could be like, where new life can be brought to old mixes.

It doesn't make them better or worse - it's just a different way to listen to the songs. Everybody has their preferences and everybody can be happy because nothing is being made unavailable.

 Of course some people may not like certain new mixes and that's fine, but people really shouldn't be crapping on the idea of new mixes being released- and most certainly people shouldn't be crapping on the people working on this who are clearly knowledgeable, good folks who dearly value the brand and its reputation. Honestly, only good attention to the unfairly neglected parts of the band can come out of all of this, and the people complaining the loudest come across like Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud. Completely preposterous and unneeded negativity.

One more thing I should add, I can understand why some people have an attachment to the early material and they feel like that area of the band is going to get the short shrift, but that era has been soooo endlessly played up and focused for so many decades that it is fine for there to be a new focus now. It's absolutely necessary.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 01:49:02 PM
The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I don’t want to belabor any of this, but even the person who weirdly nearly transcribed the friggin’ podcast interview, they listened to it (presumably *more* than once), and *still* didn’t actually absorb it or understand it. And it’s not difficult to understand. There are many examples, but I’ll pick one out. The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022. There are a myriad of ways to go about this, and more is being done now in this realm by the current team than has ever been done in the past.

It wasn’t that long ago that we had to be excited about stuff like that meager “Songs from Here and Back” CD at Hallmark. Oooh, “PT Cruiser” again, but this time I can buy it at Hallmark? Be still my heart….


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 01:53:02 PM
Remixes are awesome because they don't replace the originals at all. It's the closest way we can get to a brand new album by our favorite band to exist.

Perfectly put! Honestly I love the original mono of Pet Sounds, but I also love the sonic cornucopia that is the stereo version. They are two totally different albums to my ears, but they're both amazing in their own ways.

That's how I see any of the modern stereo mixes, the experimentation on a song like Marcella or Sail Plane Song...I'm glad they exist because it's a whole new way of listening to a song. You're right, it's like hearing a brand new album. And we're very lucky to even have such diverse ways of listening to this music.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 01:57:22 PM
The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I mean I wouldn't expect a whole lot of logical critical deduction from a crowd that thinks 'Marcella' is mixed like a death metal song...I'm sure that Linett was calling up the members of Slayer asking advice on mixing techniques.
____

Also want to add, without creating yet another post in this thread, that I hope all that petulant negativity doesn't affect the mixes on the CatP/Holland set. If there were plans on having the CatP's mixes sound like this 2021 Marcella mix, I hope they keep it that way. If I want to hear the original I can do that with the 3-4 other copies of the album I own. But I'd love to hear the album in this whole new mixing style - there is something about it that keeps me coming back for more.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 14, 2022, 02:06:23 PM
Yeah, I mean, of course it doesn't sound like "death metal" just because you can actually hear the friggin' snare drum. The drastic remix is literally explained in this interview. It's not difficult to understand. Maybe it's the same fans that didn't like Blondie's take on "Wild Honey" at Brian's shows, and talked about it as if Megadeath had jumped on stage because Blondie like actually played some electric guitar solos.

I just don't get it. Do some of these fans think their old copies of "So Tough" are going to be recalled or confiscated?

I've been saying for eons that I was never super into the old mix of "Marcella"; it's pretty limp. Even when the band had drums and guitars, they sometimes seemed determined to make sure we could barely hear them. I know many fans who have always gone with the "In Concert" version because of this.  


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 02:35:25 PM
Funny I've always thought the original mix of CatP (including Marcella) was absolutely magical. But at the same time I am loving the new mix more with each listen...may surpass the original for me at some point.
_______

Aaaaand they have literally locked the Sounds of Summer thread on EH because apparently Howie didn't react to their firing squad in a proper manner :lol

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 14, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 14, 2022, 02:59:40 PM
Funny I've always thought the original mix of CatP (including Marcella) was absolutely magical. But at the same time I am loving the new mix more with each listen...may surpass the original for me at some point.
_______

Aaaaand they have literally locked the Sounds of Summer thread on EH because apparently Howie didn't react to their firing squad in a proper manner :lol

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.

You know why? Cause Howie is 10,000x the man Doe wishes he could be, and maybe could’ve been had he not basically sold his soul. He took a gamble and lost. Pardon the pun. Howie is a straight shooter who knows his sh*t. Only a fool would …oh… of course. Says a lot about those clowns, eh?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 14, 2022, 03:09:44 PM
The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I don’t want to belabor any of this, but even the person who weirdly nearly transcribed the friggin’ podcast interview, they listened to it (presumably *more* than once), and *still* didn’t actually absorb it or understand it. And it’s not difficult to understand. There are many examples, but I’ll pick one out. The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022. There are a myriad of ways to go about this, and more is being done now in this realm by the current team than has ever been done in the past.

It wasn’t that long ago that we had to be excited about stuff like that meager “Songs from Here and Back” CD at Hallmark. Oooh, “PT Cruiser” again, but this time I can buy it at Hallmark? Be still my heart….


Exactly!

One thing though… “radio” doesn’t matter. It’s all about the streaming services. Stuff like this is perfect… the original is just a click away. Let’s be real…Spotify is music on demand, and a band with such a huge output of released and previously unreleased stuff would thrive in this day and age…and has. The elimination of storage limitations plus cost efficiency means eventually whether or not it would sell enough to offset cost would be a thing of the past:

One day I imagine liner notes being able to be viewed as the music plays, where you just maneuver around like a Kindle and flip through. That would be amazing.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 14, 2022, 03:11:36 PM
Marcella is great, Billy C. was right about Brian singing on the song.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 14, 2022, 03:58:31 PM
One day I imagine liner notes being able to be viewed as the music plays, where you just maneuver around like a Kindle and flip through. That would be amazing.

That's why I'd love to see a Beach Boys app with the full catalogue, liner notes, exclusives, etc. because I feel like we would never get this with Spotify...It took them almost a decade to bring back song lyrics and I feel like liner notes are a dying breed in modern popular music anyways.

I sometimes use the app Idagio when I get into a classical music mood, and they are wonderful about including liner notes. But that is a niche app. But similarly, a Beach Boys app could include essays, rare photos, interviews, etc. I dream.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Sam_BFC on June 14, 2022, 05:50:51 PM
Thanks HeyJude. I don't think this particular discussion should be limited to the audiophile domain.

In the case of Marcella, the mastering (well mixing really, though we do not know the stage at which the EQ decisions in question were made) is more than minutiae given the "product" is the new mix.

I take your point about Feel Flows...I'd be happy to say that Feel Flows is great overall, a thrill to finally see, say, Awake finally get a proper release, whilst adding that I'd enjoy it that 5% more if they toned down the shrillness on that particular track a little, then leave it at that and see what other's think...and all the better if we are lucky enough to see Mark or Howie jump in to either explain why they disagree with such assessments, explain their approach, or at least take the feedback onboard for future opinions like this are widespread.

I also think that in making a point of calling out the original mixes and masters, Howie himself does elevate the topic to higher importance than mere minutiae.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 14, 2022, 06:46:04 PM

You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.


In advance of what I'm going to reply to Steve so the truth actually gets told, I'm not doing this to derail or distract from the box set discussions. But when someone posts what are either outright lies or distortions against me, I get a chance to reply. So here it is.

Getting this out of the way first, Steve, I did in fact address this the day it all happened and posted a reply publicly. If anyone reached out to me privately on this issue I also discussed it with them off the board. Maybe you missed this or conveniently ignored it, but here is that exact reply with the date and link. After writing that, I said my peace and apologized. Until you and manning carried over to this forum this week, some two years after it happened and in Manning's case four years after he last posted here, my words have been on this forum for anyone to read.

But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

I appreciate the hard work, Alan, both you and Mark have been a Godsend to the fans and your persistence in getting this material out and love for the material itself...we're blessed to have you where you are, doing what you do! I'd never, ever suggest anything less.

I understand where it would hurt, but I would ask in return that you also understand how bad things were on a personal level between Doe and people I call my friends (and me, too), to where they were being lied about and trashed by a guy using his status as a "historian" to behave that way. And that hurt them, and me too to see what was going on behind the shroud of "insider" Beach Boys circles. There are lines one simply does not cross on basic human decency levels, and in some of these cases, lines were crossed which to this day there have been no apologies or even admissions that things should not have been said or done.

So I'll say again, I'm not advocating a boycott, I'm not saying don't buy this, but when I saw that credit it did put a dark cloud over it *for me* personally. I would think if the credit was for research, Ian Rusten among a few others would have deserved a credit too considering the sheer volume of research he's added through the years, especially to the site hosted by Doe.

But again, that's just me. If my wording on the "free" point was confusing, as I think it was, I'm sorry for that. If it felt like I was calling for a boycott, I absolutely was not. But just the same, seeing those credits did put a damper on the whole thing for me, and I had to be honest when I said that earlier, but perhaps in not the right choice of words. I want as many people as possible to hear this amazing music, I'd never suggest otherwise. But for me, the credits honestly did have an effect on my view of it and I wish that were not the case - My own hang-up.

Steve wrote: " He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet."

Totally false statement, Steve. I never said such a thing. I also never downloaded the set illegally on the internet. Don't charge me with things I didn't do, or tell people I said something I never said. The proof is in my archived posts. Perhaps you should check your facts before making accusations like this.

Steve wrote: "You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since."

Bullshit, Steve. Again I never said I would download this set illegally, and I never did. Again as you can see in my posts, the set was posted on the official Beach Boys YouTube channel when it first came out, and I listened there. Not that it's any of your business, but I also paid for the set later through Amazon Music. So again, get your facts straight before lying about me and what I said or did.

The issue of this having anything to do with the Feel Flows box set has already been addressed by multiple people here. It is ridiculous, and as you've already been told by someone who actually knows what's going on, it has nothing to do with the current issues surrounding Feel Flows.

Steve wrote: "If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling."

Ok Steve, let's run your example another way. Let's say you had someone doing work for any company who had a decade-plus history of spreading lies and gossip about people in that company. Let's say some of those lies and gossip got revealed one day. Let's go even further and say the lies and gossip being spread by that person was about the spouse and family of one of that company's board members, not just a board member but one of the founders of that company.

Steve, how long do you think THAT person would last at the company? Do you think they'd be asked to do any more work for that company? Do you think they'd be invited to the company Christmas party and get thanked in the program?

How long do you think it would take before that person was out on their ass in the street once years of their lies and gossip about a founder and board member's wife came to light?

Well, you'll have to plug in the names in that example. It's funny how "appalling" you claim my comments were yet you seem to have no problem at all sitting silent through years of the other example which actually happened. Hint: The company name was BRI and the band's name was the Beach Boys. Fill in the rest...and next time try not to project dirty laundry that goes beyond anything you've tried to pin on me onto another example.

Appalling is g*ddamned right. Years of mocking and bashing a founding Beach Boys' wife...I guess in the book of Steve, that's not near as appalling as listening to tracks on YouTube. For fucks sake, take a dose of reality and perspective next time.

Steve wrote: "Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts."

See my quote above from 2018.

Steve wrote: "That was what john was referring to."

I guess you're speaking for John Manning since he hasn't bothered to come back to respond or reply to questions asked of him two days ago? Or is this part of the email you sent him? Well, if you email him again, you can pass on the message that a few questions were asked of him, in case he missed them. Or maybe his first and only visit in four years was just to do a drive-by and try to take some shots at me. Anyway, if you are speaking for him now, pass it on to him if you would.


One last thing. Steve, you may have issues with me and that's perfectly fine. You can address them with me any time. But don't post outright lies and other bits of info that are false, especially when the exact words from years past are archived on this board and available for anyone to read. And don't try to place the blame for a box set not coming out on me when it's not only ridiculous, but you don't have a clue on the reasons why. It makes you look foolish (you can pass that on to Manning as well), especially in this case when what you posted doesn't match at all what was said or done. Oh, and this whole thing about bootlegs and illegal downloads and whatnot...I did get the message you sent me last summer offering me some unreleased Beach Boys material. I ignored it and never replied, but I'll make that right and do so now:

No thanks.

 


Forgive me for indulging in a personal issue here, but there are still people lying about what I said and did as outlined above, and just to set the record straight and prove that what is STILL being said is a lie, I'll repost my response from when the issue came up a few years ago and the same lie was told. The exact truth is posted above, in the exact wording and context where it first appeared.

If fans want to associate with people who blatantly lie about others despite the truth being available and on full view for all to see, that's their choice. But for those lying, how about telling the truth for a change even though it goes against your agenda? It's relatively easy to do and better for the soul, if you have one.

I never illegally downloaded the release in question. Period. Judge those who continue to tell this lie accordingly, and consider how many other lies they have told and continue to tell which go far beyond someone like me and into the deeper regions of the Beach Boys' inner workings, including spouses and children. They're disgusting and pathetic. Appalling too. Again, judge accordingly before buying into their nonsense. "It's all about the music." Yeah, right. At least most fans won't have to carry the bad karma of knowing they deliberately tried to screw over and lie about Brian Wilson and his family on their shoulders.

And now they're going after Howie.

Appalling indeed.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: All Summer Long on June 14, 2022, 06:52:41 PM
I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.


As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 14, 2022, 07:10:43 PM
I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 14, 2022, 07:16:30 PM
Listening to side two of today to mellow out from this mess.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: debonbon on June 14, 2022, 08:06:44 PM
I joined the other place when this board went offline. Good lord.

Anyway, love the new mixes. Looking forward to hearing the rest. Go Howie.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on June 14, 2022, 08:19:30 PM
I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.



It's too bad there wasn't a push behind it.  I didn't start keeping track right away because I didn't think there would be a noticeable bump, but California Dreamin' has had over 4 million streams on Spotify in the past 10 days.  In another week I'll be running my yearly Spotify data on the Beach Boys and looking at last year's 2.7 million all time streams, the vast majority of its increase has come since the Stranger Things release.  It currently has 8.9 million streams.  As of now it's their second most popular song on Spotify.   

I was also a little disappointed to see the subtitles label it as by the Mamas and Papas, but that could be a legal thing.  Definitely at least a minor missed opportunity to not do more with it.   


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: petsite on June 14, 2022, 09:04:17 PM
Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 15, 2022, 12:02:13 AM
Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!

I completely understand this side of the argument, however there's little that the creators of these remixes can do to determine if these will become "the" preferred version of the song that is played the most, and whether that version takes a greater hold in the public consciousness more than the original version, or not.

So many of these elements are out of peoples' hands, whether a given version winds up on a playlist on Spotify by some popular influencer and winds up getting traction, etc.… The new 21st century methods by which music is shared and popularized are often dictated by fans and playlists, so it is a situation where things such as determining which version becomes "the" version will really ultimately be out of their hands.

Once again, the original versions are there for people who want to hear them. I really don't think those original albums/mixes are going to fall into some sort of deep obscurity. However, admittedly, the new mixes will probably for the short term gain more traction than the originals, but this attention level ebbs and flows.

But even if a new version winds up eclipsing the originals in the public consciousness, I think it's still absolutely worth it for those new versions to be made and released. It's still cool that the band has great folks working on new ways to revitalize the old catalog, and we should all consider ourselves very lucky that this is happening. And once again, anybody who dislikes a particular version can simply skip it with no harm done.

Ultimately the brand is not going to somehow be diminished/hurt, nor will the brand lose fans over these new mixes. At worst, things would stay stagnant. But in my opinion, in all likelihood the brand will just continue to grow in stature among young people in part helped by the media attention the mixes will probably bring to the brand, and that's a good thing.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 15, 2022, 12:36:51 AM
I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.


As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.

Prior to Feel Flows. The way they’re being marketed , and how they are described by the music media, has certainly changed.

This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum. I know a lot of people think of Fleetwood Mac’s popularity being mainly due to the Tik Tok thing with Dreams are missing the boat… same with the Kate Bush song being on Stranger Things and is currently #4 on the Hot 100…. these are legacy artists that were already starting to get traction amongst a younger fan base (and in the Mac’s case it’s the Bob Welch period that has gained a lot of traction; conversely the Peter Green era has lost a lot of steam) .
There are songs charting that sound retro; not “manufactured major label artists” but artists from mid sized indies who write and play their own music.

As far as the Beatles goes, I’m mostly  referring to raw numbers, along with how they’re viewed in comparison by the younger set overall, musicians , media and general public alike . Hell look at music discussions on YouTube or browse non beach boys sites that deal with music that aren’t Hoffman (too old of a crowd). My daughter’s 15 next month and she can pretty much spot trends right before they happen. Hindsight and the lack of cultural bias is an amazing eye opener . We are too close to the action. I’ve been on these boards for over 26 years . I was a younger fan of 17 but the world has changed immensely since . Imagine hearing the band now as a new fan and having SO much available legally and easily be able to put things in context with bias.

This really deserves its own thread but for the first time ever things are lining up perfectly for The Beach Boys, and this time it’s past the point of being able to screw things up.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 15, 2022, 12:50:59 AM
Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!

I completely understand this side of the argument, however there's little that the creators of these remixes can do to determine if these will become "the" preferred version of the song that is played the most, and whether that version takes a greater hold in the public consciousness more than the original version, or not.

So many of these elements are out of peoples' hands, whether a given version winds up on a playlist on Spotify by some popular influencer and winds up getting traction, etc.… The new 21st century methods by which music is shared and popularized are often dictated by fans and playlists, so it is a situation where things such as determining which version becomes "the" version will really ultimately be out of their hands.

Once again, the original versions are there for people who want to hear them. I really don't think those original albums/mixes are going to fall into some sort of deep obscurity. However, admittedly, the new mixes will probably for the short term gain more traction than the originals, but this attention level ebbs and flows.

But even if a new version winds up eclipsing the originals in the public consciousness, I think it's still absolutely worth it for those new versions to be made and released. It's still cool that the band has great folks working on new ways to revitalize the old catalog, and we should all consider ourselves very lucky that this is happening. And once again, anybody who dislikes a particular version can simply skip it with no harm done.

Ultimately the brand is not going to somehow be diminished/hurt, nor will the brand lose fans over these new mixes. At worst, things would stay stagnant. But in my opinion, in all likelihood the brand will just continue to grow in stature among young people in part helped by the media attention the mixes will probably bring to the brand, and that's a good thing.



The original mixes are still there. The new Marcella mix didn’t get inserted into So Tough. And both the mono mixes and stereo mixes are available, and usually on the same album …but I’m talking Spotify and Apple Music . I don’t have the finances to buy much physical media (I’m on disability and have a ; month old son to boot) but when I do I spend it on independent artists. So if it’s not available on physical media i stand corrected. Streaming wise, all the albums that had stereo remixes are also available in mono, including as 2fers on Spotify. Jaymie (my aforementioned keyboard and bass playing daughter) is a mono purist and says most of her friends are the same.

Oh and cassette tapes are making a comeback. It went from musicians using VST plugins to simulate tape hiss * to “regular “ people recording their music in to tapes to listen to them that way to sound better.


* which I’ve done. Funny I spent 2001-2008 recording to cassette but trying like hell to get the noise out to make it sound clean , and now people use programs to add that sound in.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 15, 2022, 01:09:34 AM
A couple comments:

1) perhaps I’m out of the loop, but is it that impossible to find original vinyl of Beach Boys albums via eBay or record stores? And from what I can tell there are three different versions of every early Beach Boys album on Apple Music: the mono/stereo rereleases, then there is the generic stereo version that was out before the re-releases. I was under the impression that these mono versions aren’t much different from their original mix, they are just remastered (not remixed). So it’s not as if the 1997 stereo mix of Pet Sounds is now the only way to hear Pet Sounds - I am able to listen to 3 different versions via streaming, and I can have all my archived versions in my Apple Music library as well. This seems to be the case for every album they have released (unless I’m missing something). They remixed ‘Don’t Worry Baby’ in 2009 and yet that remix was never a part of an official release of Shut Down Vol II. So I guess I personally don’t see the worry that a remix of Marcella in a sampler compilation somehow eventually erasing any memory of the original mix in an official capacity.

2) I’ve heard this complaint about the bridge in WIBN now a couple times in the last couple days. I was under the impression that in 1997 they had to put Brian in the bridge because they could not transfer the original mono (where Mike is singing?) into stereo - they didn’t have Mike’s vocal on a separate track and thus at the time it could not be mixed in stereo. This problem was rectified later on. It’s the same problem that YSBIM had/has - they only had/have one vocal track separate from the mono mixdown and thus Brian’s double-tracked lead can’t be reproduced in stereo (and they can only use one track for the lead in stereo). It’s not an artistic liberty on the part of the mixers, it’s just the limitations they are dealt with in certain circumstances.

3) comparing a stereo remix to the idea of completely altering the ending of novel/movie by introducing completely new species/characters is a terrible analogy (not trying to offend, but it is rather an offensive analogy to the people working on these mixes). This new mix of Marcella isn’t adding vocals from 2022 or some CGI equivalent to aliens, it is mixing original elements from the original sessions to create an altered listening experience. It’s almost the exact same song, we are just hearing it slightly differently. A better analogy (still not a perfect one) is comparing this to the alternate versions of Blade Runner. I can still watch the original cut of Blade Runner, but I can also watch the Final Cut where they altered colors (for the better, imho), cut some scenes, and took out the narration. It’s a different way to view the film. It doesn’t introduce new characters or vastly alter the plot, but it’s a different way of viewing the film.

I’m a young(ish) fan, but I have always been able to find either original vinyl, have been able to acquire original mono recordings either by back channels, or eBay, etc.. Currently I can listen to official releases via streaming in mono, stereo, remixes, remasters, etc.. There are very smart and dedicated people running the show now, and I highly doubt they will spearhead a campaign to make it so only modern stereo remixes of The Beach Boys catalogue are available for listening.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 15, 2022, 01:46:56 AM
Also, the idea that remixing songs is “playing God” is completely absurd as well. Brian is literally deaf in one ear and can’t properly hear in stereo. It was impossible* for Brian to even mix Pet Sounds (and other early Beach Boys records) in proper stereo himself, so it is supposedly sacrilege if professional mixers who have a HUGE love for the Beach Boys create a stereo version??

Marcella is clearly not in the same category as it wasn’t originally mixed by Brian in mono. But I guess I also don’t see the point in getting all angsty about a song you can freely hear the original of anytime anywhere. And that’s not to say people shouldn’t have opinions about it, I guess I just find some of the criticism rather offensive/outlandish given this is a sampler compilation whose hopeful target audience is young new fans (while also giving us long-time fans a new way to experience the music).

*want to clarify my meaning of “impossible” before I get raked over the coals for that. I forget if Brian mixed Friends or had a hand in it, but clearly Brian has had a hand in mixing stereo sound during his life. But he can’t actually hear the full stereo experience so hence I say it is rather impossible for him to mix a proper stereo sound.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: positivemusic on June 15, 2022, 04:54:42 AM
These mixes are an interesting curio. But, for me, personally, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to create NEW mixes for a greatest HITS collection.
I have the same issue with album versions, like "Be True To Your School," "California Saga: California" or "Help Me, Rhonda" showing up on hits compilations. These are all essentially the same songs, but are not the hits that people know and love.
While I'm not really a fan of the new "Marcella" mix, I'm not opposed to new mixes for specially marketed rarities, etc albums. I VERY much prefer the 2012 mix of "Rock and Roll Music" or fan mixes that I've heard of "Breakaway" with Brian on lead throughout the song and a breathtaking mix of "'Till I Die." I use them in my personal playlist, but if I was introducing someone to The Beach Boys or trying to expand their horizons of them, I would definitely default to the originals.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 15, 2022, 05:49:37 AM
24 of the 80 tracks have new mixes. From what I've heard of 'Shut Down' and 'Good Vibrations' I don't think the remixes of the early tracks are going to butcher these tracks into unrecognizable garbage. Rather those early tracks seem to be very tastefully mixed for a new generation of stereo sound (assuming that the Dolby Atmos 3D listening era has a lot to do with this new push for immersive remixing).

It was the 2009 stereo remix of 'Don't Worry Baby' on the Summer Love Songs comp that first really hooked me back into being a fan (which led to me becoming the lunatic of a fan I am today). Yes, the original mono song will always be beautiful to me (and my favorite version depending on how I'm listening to the song), but it was that great stereo mix on the SLS comp that really drew me in. So as a new fan who didn't know anything about all the different mixes of the song, I just thought that it was a great sounding track, and it started me down a wonderful path of finding new mixes, fan mixes, original mixes. I think many others will have a similar experience.

As for this being a Greatest Hits comp, I think the first disc is a Greatest Hits comp, but the rest is a sampler of many deep cuts. I mean, if this were solely a Greatest Hits package I highly doubt 'Do You Like Worms' would be on here. So honestly I think having some new mixes on this comp is the way to go given the diverse nature of the package.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: petsite on June 15, 2022, 06:33:48 AM
My whole point is we like what we like. It really bothers me when people get SO UPSET and start attacking those who are working on these projects. If you don't like something, you don't like it. And its ok to say you don't like it. But as I posted on the EH board, you don't need to say I DON'T LIKE THIS AND ANYONE THAT DOES IS A MORON as some do on every board. Its this great music. Period.

Also, as I posted before....where the hell is my pudding?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 15, 2022, 06:40:53 AM
I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.



It's too bad there wasn't a push behind it.  I didn't start keeping track right away because I didn't think there would be a noticeable bump, but California Dreamin' has had over 4 million streams on Spotify in the past 10 days.  In another week I'll be running my yearly Spotify data on the Beach Boys and looking at last year's 2.7 million all time streams, the vast majority of its increase has come since the Stranger Things release.  It currently has 8.9 million streams.  As of now it's their second most popular song on Spotify.   

I was also a little disappointed to see the subtitles label it as by the Mamas and Papas, but that could be a legal thing.  Definitely at least a minor missed opportunity to not do more with it.   

It shows the power of song placement and how associating a long-forgotten song to a popular show or movie translates to millions in sales that otherwise wouldn't be there. Kate Bush is ecstatic over her song charting with audiences who are two generations removed from the original release of the song thanks to Stranger Things.

That's what confuses me about The Beach Boys and California Dreamin'...What happened in the cross-promotion machine? Obviously the song got a bump from being used as an opening sequence song in probably the most anticipated show premiere of the year, the numbers you listed above clearly show the results with millions of new streams and/or purchases.

Yet just a quick scan of various online articles about the show and its soundtrack shows more than a few listing the song as the Mamas & Papas version, which it clearly is not. Some even link to the Mamas & Papas version of the song, which again was clearly not in the soundtrack. So what happened, or what didn't happen in the promotions process to allow such errors to be published and shared?

It was a real coup to place a BB's recording on this show and in that prominent of a place during the show, and it seems the fans of the show are getting info that the track they heard (and therefore would buy/download/stream) is the Mamas & Papas version. And why it's being labeled as the Mamas & Papas in the first place. It doesn't make sense.

And it would have been cool to have some official tie-in through the BB's organization since they knew the track would be on the show. Maybe not inclusion on this vinyl release...but damn, how many of these new fans might pick up such a greatest hits collection for the song if the numbers are right and they're already pushing 10 million new streams of a song that had pretty much fallen into obscurity since the 80's. It's the decades-old concept of a hit single driving sales of an album, in this case it's streams and downloads instead of 45 sales and radio airplay.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 15, 2022, 06:58:44 AM
These mixes are an interesting curio. But, for me, personally, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to create NEW mixes for a greatest HITS collection.
I have the same issue with album versions, like "Be True To Your School," "California Saga: California" or "Help Me, Rhonda" showing up on hits compilations. These are all essentially the same songs, but are not the hits that people know and love.
While I'm not really a fan of the new "Marcella" mix, I'm not opposed to new mixes for specially marketed rarities, etc albums. I VERY much prefer the 2012 mix of "Rock and Roll Music" or fan mixes that I've heard of "Breakaway" with Brian on lead throughout the song and a breathtaking mix of "'Till I Die." I use them in my personal playlist, but if I was introducing someone to The Beach Boys or trying to expand their horizons of them, I would definitely default to the originals.

I think using the album version of "Be True" or "Rhonda" is a whole other ball of wax, as those are literally different recordings/performances, and few fans or spectators would claim "Ronda" is better than "Rhonda." (I don't think anybody but hardcores would know or care which mix of "California Saga" is used; I wouldn't call that a well-known hit).

But a 2022 expanded "Sounds of Summer" isn't for hardcore fans (if completist hardcore fans also buy it get the new mixes, certainly the band and label won't complain of course), certainly not for the type of fans that already "know and love" the material to the point they notice mix differences. It's to introduce new fans, and that means mostly young people. I think some BB fans don't understand what this means. It doesn't mean doing dance remixes or making a virtual duet with BTS. It just means giving the stuff more punch and clarity.

Why do we need a new 20-year-old Beach Boys fan to hear a potentially limp vintage mix instead of a fresh, punchy new mix?

As Howie mentions in his interview, new BB fans start at all sorts of weird points in the catalog, and if they like it enough to even approach becoming a huge or "hardcore" fan, they'll go back and find all the other stuff they didn't listen to initially, whether it's albums or songs they haven't heard before, or going back to compare mono vs. stereo vs. remixes on this stuff.

If I was introducing someone to "Pet Sounds" for instance, I would *always* give them the stereo remix. Just like, if I wanted to introduce someone who knew little or nothing about the Beatles to like "Baby You're A Rich Man", I'd give them 1999 "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" remix, because it's like a thousand times more clear.

It's not like giving a new fan like Mike's "Unleash the Love" remakes or like old Adrian Baker/Mike re-recordings. It's plenty of proper historical context to just give a new fan a remix.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 15, 2022, 07:35:59 AM
It really bothers me when people get SO UPSET and start attacking those who are working on these projects.

This:
Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.

Its this great music. Period.

Exactly!


Also, as I posted before....where the hell is my pudding?

(https://i.imgur.com/qq8Bh7Q.jpg)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 15, 2022, 08:14:44 AM
I believe from previous reading that Howie and others have had to really fight to get these projects over the line so personally I'm just happy that we have got to hear so much unreleased stuff particularly from Dennis with much more promised from the upcoming CATP/Holland set.

I listened to "Marcella" on Deezer and its clipping a little at the start which is odd. Doesn't happen on youtube though.

With some of the Howie argument going on I'm reminded of the Jack quote "To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public." Maybe that's somewhere in mind when working on these new sets.





Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: The Heartical Don on June 15, 2022, 09:07:56 AM
To all aficionados who chimed in on this lovely thread -

yesterday I was still wondering if would purchase the new set. I looked at what I do have already (the GV and PS boxes, the Smile Sessions, the Feel Flows extravaganza, other compilations, vinyl material, well, a lot).

Just reading the most recent pages of this exchange of opinions abruptly ended my question to myself.

Anything that gets so much attention and deep consideration is worth the price of admission, as they say. Such well-reasoned opinions, freely available at that, can mean only one thing: I need that collection. As much as I need the other sets that are on our horizon.

Thank you, good people that you are.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 15, 2022, 11:09:34 AM
Sorry again for interjecting into the thread, but since this stuff is going back and forth, it's time to address yet another lie being told about people here. This nonsense and the lies need to stop.

So it's been said yet again that people were banned here "for simply stating our opinions". This according to "feelsflow", whose membership is still active here and who was not banned.

I'll make this one easy: That's an outright lie. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was banned here for "simply stating their opinions". Period. If people can't accept this, or prefer to lie and ignore the facts, we'd be happy to open the archives and go through exactly what people who were banned actually did or how they acted to trigger a ban. It's not pretty, and I'd rather not see that happen. But keep lying, Will and others, and you'll see what actually happened because it's all in the archives. The bans were for breaking board rules, most times repeatedly. And that's a fact. How those rules were broken by the banned individuals would cast them in a pretty bad light in some cases, which is why that's not something we'd want to see happen.

So here's another case where people who carry grudges cannot let things go after 5-7 years, and who continue to lie. They lie about me, lie about Billy, lie about Charles and the operation of this forum, they've lied about Brian Wilson and his family, they've lied about Howie most recently, they've continually lied about how and why people were banned here, and it continues to this day.

Appalling.

Just grow up, get over it, tell the truth, and talk about the music. If the only thing left to do to boost yourself up is spread lies and false information, that's pretty pathetic.

Sorry for the interruption.





Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 15, 2022, 11:36:44 AM
Sorry again for interjecting into the thread, but since this stuff is going back and forth, it's time to address yet another lie being told about people here. This nonsense and the lies need to stop.

So it's been said yet again that people were banned here "for simply stating our opinions". This according to "feelsflow", whose membership is still active here and who was not banned.

I'll make this one easy: That's an outright lie. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was banned here for "simply stating their opinions". Period. If people can't accept this, or prefer to lie and ignore the facts, we'd be happy to open the archives and go through exactly what people who were banned actually did or how they acted to trigger a ban. It's not pretty, and I'd rather not see that happen. But keep lying, Will and others, and you'll see what actually happened because it's all in the archives. The bans were for breaking board rules, most times repeatedly. And that's a fact. How those rules were broken by the banned individuals would cast them in a pretty bad light in some cases, which is why that's not something we'd want to see happen.

So here's another case where people who carry grudges cannot let things go after 5-7 years, and who continue to lie. They lie about me, lie about Billy, lie about Charles and the operation of this forum, they've lied about Brian Wilson and his family, they've lied about Howie most recently, they've continually lied about how and why people were banned here, and it continues to this day.

Appalling.

Just grow up, get over it, tell the truth, and talk about the music. If the only thing left to do to boost yourself up is spread lies and false information, that's pretty pathetic.

Sorry for the interruption.





Exactly. The way they turned on Howie speaks volumes.

And yeah these lies about being banned over difference of opinion is sickening but not surprising. The made to feel unwelcome, well, ok….but isn’t that basically just taking your bat and ball and going home cause nobody agrees with you?  Not a single person was banned over a difference of opinion, and no matter how many times these lying pricks try to make it so, it won’t be cause it never happened


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 15, 2022, 01:11:32 PM
I don’t want to start a whole bunch of s**t, and this is something that applies to any message board when you try to examine a small subset of people being weirdly aggressive/pedantic/argumentative, etc. In that thread over there, many, many of the times I see a particularly hostile, indignant post complaining about Howie or his interview or the archival team or whatever, it’s almost always someone with like 10 or 12 or whatever posts to their name, or somewhere in the double digits. It’s kind of strange. Like, multiple times I come across someone writing a NOVEL picking apart a podcast interview about a greatest hits compilation, and they have like 8 posts to their name.

To be clear, I’m not discouraging new posters on any board, nor am I saying one automatically has less believability or whatever when they haven’t posted a lot.

But the two most common scenarios when so much of this vitriol comes from posters with few posts or membership time to their name are: One, a new fan who doesn’t grasp the tone or etiquette or something. Two, a fan or poster who has started a new account just to do this stuff. Whether this amounts to a “burner” account or alternate or whatever you want to call it, I don’t know. Or three, a longer-time fan who never or rarely engages in discussion, but curiously comes out of the woodwork just to stir this one particular fire. And perhaps there is some overlap in these groups.

All I’m saying is that I would always weigh and judge accordingly someone tearing the team who works on these great BB projects a new one when they’ve posted like 14 times and/or just joined a few weeks or months ago or something. And as I’ve already said, that stuff is an embarrassment to fans and the band, that there are that many people who have little or nothing to say about the band until a hits compilation has remixes you don’t like. That there are that many people who, as I’ve already said, seem determined to professionally and expertly *miss the point* all the time about everything when it comes to this band, from their history to the production to the engineering to the mixing to the marketing to the internal process at the companies and labels involved, and on and on. To say nothing of so many Beach Boys fans, especially those who are not super young, who seem to have little or no awareness of how young people today find/consume/seek out/enjoy/spread the word about music or anything else for that matter.

I’ve seen dozens and dozens and dozens of compilations come and go over the decades, and I wrongly thought that most even old, grizzled fans had stopped so indignantly complaining about them. Like, you know they’re going to happen, and you no longer can say “well, they’re putting the compilations out instead of new stuff!”, because this “Sounds of Summer” reissue is literally going to be bookended by “Feel Flows” and the 72/73 set.

And, we’ve been getting stereo remixes for at least 26 years now. I’m sure we all like some more than others. The '96 "Pet Sounds" stereo mix is like one of my all time favorite, go-to albums mixes ever. With some weird exceptions here and there, all of the original mixes of the BBs stuff is still out there and available. What’s the problem?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 01:59:11 AM
Sorry again for interjecting into the thread, but since this stuff is going back and forth, it's time to address yet another lie being told about people here. This nonsense and the lies need to stop.

So it's been said yet again that people were banned here "for simply stating our opinions". This according to "feelsflow", whose membership is still active here and who was not banned.

I'll make this one easy: That's an outright lie. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was banned here for "simply stating their opinions". Period. If people can't accept this, or prefer to lie and ignore the facts, we'd be happy to open the archives and go through exactly what people who were banned actually did or how they acted to trigger a ban. It's not pretty, and I'd rather not see that happen. But keep lying, Will and others, and you'll see what actually happened because it's all in the archives. The bans were for breaking board rules, most times repeatedly. And that's a fact. How those rules were broken by the banned individuals would cast them in a pretty bad light in some cases, which is why that's not something we'd want to see happen.

So here's another case where people who carry grudges cannot let things go after 5-7 years, and who continue to lie. They lie about me, lie about Billy, lie about Charles and the operation of this forum, they've lied about Brian Wilson and his family, they've lied about Howie most recently, they've continually lied about how and why people were banned here, and it continues to this day.

Appalling.

Just grow up, get over it, tell the truth, and talk about the music. If the only thing left to do to boost yourself up is spread lies and false information, that's pretty pathetic.

Sorry for the interruption.

Yeah I find it amusing that one of the posters over there actually recommended people check out the sandbox here. It’s like, yeah please do! For that matter check out any of the archives here. You’ll literally see the evidence that people weren’t banned because of their opinion. In fact, if you’re new to the fandom, you’ll stumble upon a many great number of things that will change your entire perception of the fandom, sadly.

My favorite part is the poster stating that many left SS on their own accord because they felt unwelcome, IN A THREAD WHERE PEOPLE ARE BASHING HOWIE FOR DOING THE SAME THING THERE :lol just a perfect advertisement for a board that touts being so accepting and inclusive. They literally ran off a guy who has put his heart and soul into The Beach Boys and is trying his best to get every fan rarities that have been locked away for 50 years. And we’re the unwelcoming ones?

And I guess someone brought up the Alan Boyd controversy that happened here? Difference is that “quarrel” started because of a connection between privately spread malicious rumors about Melinda Wilson and a credit on a boxset. In our current state Howie Edelson helped put together an amazing sampler compilation and he was raked over the coals for being open about his love for the band in a podcast. Huge, HUGE difference there, and any newcomer with a kindergarten+ education could easily discern between the two.

Does everyone remember how long and hard Howie, Mark, Alan, etc had to fight to even get Feel Flows released? I am not saying that we can’t have opinions about perceived quality and tracklisting, etc. But there has seemed to be a weird push to completely lambast these sets (and now Howie personally). I think a lot of fans just need to step away from the computer and get some fresh air. We are incredibly blessed to have what we have.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2022, 02:12:10 AM
Don’t forget some of them threatening a “boycott” 😂

Some “fans”.

Excuse me while I mosh to Marcella.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 02:18:53 AM
Excuse me while I mosh to Marcella.

:lol thank you for starting my day off with a good laugh!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 16, 2022, 04:40:24 AM
Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 16, 2022, 05:32:17 AM
The lies need to stop, it's as simple as that. But that's difficult, I'm sure, for people who have been lying for years. The current lies about people being banned for stating their opinions and me illegally downloading or pirating music are just two of the most ridiculous lies because the truth can literally be accessed and most of it can be seen by anyone who wants to read it. I reposted it above, in one case.

Yet people still lie.

So whoever wants to associate and hang around with liars, have at it.

Just understand the projection going on, and how the very same behaviors that got people banned here and on multiple other forums are what those same individuals are pointing fingers of blame elsewhere and saying they're above all that.

And again, most fans won't have the bad karma of lying about and trying to f*ck over Brian Wilson and his family on their conscience...but we know who will.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 06:57:07 AM
It still seems difficult to get a regular text listing for which songs are remixes, so here are the screencaps again:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sgLFilF1ifcAX_xzirR&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8o2jgOo4R1LWV-b4yC8IW-IHtFgH4R2aZ2ig_ofx8now&oe=62AF4F53)

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nLyOkWN_ChcAX_AEkaB&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9EcZQKe8fux-_tT9asLvV2g9AyM9p5VNUB60mfA6oOEw&oe=62B1192B)

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jQkm7DPq6IsAX8nj20l&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-HKTQ3SrSaGEROEzd8YGLAOWxJjUoLbIRe2tpqOaMw0A&oe=62B0588A)

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XwYpj-R_an8AX_jjRYP&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-mNrkpM-hofRtKrY9OoVgYFrZGMRWlb7qgZQtKTwWbAQ&oe=62B02DCD)

(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ikvBREqdMxAAX-i2lWc&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-73fVkACqjvZ8z79DHIoT0PDHYGoqnQch-bpyLzPY3Kg&oe=62B0C8C9)

(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=S4fanMM8QA0AX87Z2dG&tn=hcTSd7Qo5WxZcQSw&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-ZwX8LREuueqNb0GAK0c739z-xCsTCj-Zl8u-EA6-XYA&oe=62B0A9ED)


Worth noting that the screencaps above show "All I Wanna Do" rather than "All I Want To Do", which makes more sense considering it's the alternate take.

Also, I think a few of the things above are the 2021 remixes from the "Feel Flows" set; I don't have "Feel Flows" in front of me right now to recall which were labeled 2020 versus 2021 remixes.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Sam_BFC on June 16, 2022, 07:16:57 AM
It would be interesting to know the rationale behind the stereo mixes selected for particular songs as well as those selected for brand new stereo mixes.

Presumably the 2001 stereo mix of California Girls is considered definitive.
A new, new stereo mix of Don't Worry Baby will be interesting since the latest remix is relatively recent and already great. Wow didn't realize it goes back as far as 2009.
Similar with Do It Again.

I will be very interested to see what they do with Wild Honey and Darlin because I did very much enjoy their first stereo mixes, however they stayed quite true to the general aesthetic of their original mono version in my opinion, perhaps they can be pushed further toward a pre-1967/"big" studio sound. That said, why stick with the 2017 version of Let The Wind Blow (could have even reverted to the first one that appears on the Hawthorne comp).

Looking forward to seeing hearing a new mix of Baby Blue, which is already great...from a similar-ish era, I'd actually be very curious to see what they could do with a remix of Goin On.

All This Is That is left alone, whilst others from that album are not.

Interesting that the 21st century stereo mix of Time To Get Alone has never appeared since its original release, as far as I can recall.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 07:29:43 AM
Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.

Well, this time tomorrow I will be thinking of nothing else except for the music.

I do think that the lies and distortion need to be pointed out and refuted as long as people keep pushing those false narratives. I've been called out for spreading lies in the past on this forum (I had made a wrong assumption), but you own up to it and apologize. You don't ignore it and continue to tell the lie/untruth...or you at least explain why you think you're telling the truth and provide evidence. The culture on that forum is one where they promote this idea of welcoming and openness, but then you continually read lie after lie about people or events. And there are some really good people on that forum, and either they are willfully ignorant of the history of certain personalities there, or they just don't see it. Take a look at how the "leadership" on that forum dealt with this most recent incident and you can see exactly what I mean.

Anyways, this set comes out tomorrow and I couldn't be more excited for it. Hopefully all of us can just appreciate the great music. Perhaps there will be mixes I don't care for on the set, so be it. I'm just happy that we've got amazing people running the show and I've loved what I've heard thus far.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 16, 2022, 07:46:32 AM
Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.

Well, this time tomorrow I will be thinking of nothing else except for the music.

I do think that the lies and distortion need to be pointed out and refuted as long as people keep pushing those false narratives. I've been called out for spreading lies in the past on this forum (I had made a wrong assumption), but you own up to it and apologize. You don't ignore it and continue to tell the lie/untruth...or you at least explain why you think you're telling the truth and provide evidence. The culture on that forum is one where they promote this idea of welcoming and openness, but then you continually read lie after lie about people or events. And there are some really good people on that forum, and either they are willfully ignorant of the history of certain personalities there, or they just don't see it. Take a look at how the "leadership" on that forum dealt with this most recent incident and you can see exactly what I mean.

Anyways, this set comes out tomorrow and I couldn't be more excited for it. Hopefully all of us can just appreciate the great music. Perhaps there will be mixes I don't care for on the set, so be it. I'm just happy that we've got amazing people running the show and I've loved what I've heard thus far.

Well said. And yes, the fact that the lies have been continuously written and promoted by the same people even in light of the actual truth being openly available to read or hear says all you need to know about the people telling the lies. Whatever agenda they have, whatever grudges they have, whatever delusions they have, if you continue to tell a lie that has been debunked numerous times over the years there's something wrong there.

But hey, if people want to believe those with a history of lying, who don't correct the lies or false statements, and who have made a reputation of attacking people then lying about it and projecting it onto others for years on these forums, go right ahead and believe the liars. The old saying is the leopard can't change its spots. That's pretty accurate.

It's just a shame that Howie and Mark fell into the crosshairs as they did, but just consider the sources and the people who created that kind of atmosphere. Glad those people are no longer here.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: William Bowe on June 16, 2022, 09:20:24 AM
New stereo mix of Surfin' USA now on Spotify.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 09:40:18 AM
New stereo mix of Surfin' USA now on Spotify.

Depending on where you live I think the whole set should now be available to some people. Someone on EH has listened to the set and has some great things to say about it - a lot of the remixes seem to be done very well.

Very much looking forward to hearing a cleaner sounding 'Do You Like Worms'. Also I overlooked that 'Let Us Go On This Way' was getting a remix - even though the reviewer on EH didn't give it such high marks, I wonder if I'll like it considering the mixing is supposedly done in a similar fashion as the 2021 'Marcella' (a mix which I love). I have always wanted to hear the Love You album done in a whole new mix. So I'm really looking forward to hearing it!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: William Bowe on June 16, 2022, 09:43:47 AM
You're right - it's all there. No doubt it will become available wherever you are when the clock strikes midnight, as it has just done here in Australia.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: terrei on June 16, 2022, 09:45:32 AM
The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022.

The point that you and Howie are missing is that 20-year-olds who are into FM classic rock are already into the Beach Boys. And they don't care what some boomer critics wrote in Rolling Stone fifty years ago. That old school of thought is painfully irrelevant.

One of the major reasons EH blew up was because of Howie saying that 20-year-olds don't appreciate the nerdy/kitsch songs. It's an insane statement. Bands like Weezer, They Might Be Giants, and BMX Bandits made entire careers out of exploiting Beach Boys-style kitsch. Are they seen as "shitty doo-wop" today? No!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: William Bowe on June 16, 2022, 09:56:18 AM
If you were offended by the Marcella mix, you'll no doubt feel the same way about Let Us Go On This Way -- it's got a big reverb-y drum sound that's clearly meant to play to the contemporary listener in a way that the entire Love You album distinctly does not.

But Baby Blue -- oh my. Gorgeous. Fully lives up to Howie Edelstein's hype. I'll never want to hear the original mix again.

I like the new mix of Mess of Help -- drums maybe a bit too conspicuous, but dispels the muddiness of the original without committing sacrilege.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 10:06:57 AM
The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022.

The point that you and Howie are missing is that 20-year-olds who are into FM classic rock are already into the Beach Boys. And they don't care what some boomer critics wrote in Rolling Stone fifty years ago. That old school of thought is painfully irrelevant.

One of the major reasons EH blew up was because of Howie saying that 20-year-olds don't appreciate the nerdy/kitsch songs. It's an insane statement. Bands like Weezer, They Might Be Giants, and BMX Bandits made entire careers out of exploiting Beach Boys-style kitsch. Are they seen as "shitty doo-wop" today? No!

You’re drawing a comparison or example where one isn’t being made. If you’ve read what Howie has written here on this board over the years about the Beach Boys vis-à-vis terrestrial radio, you’d understand he’s well aware of how it works and how it’s *not* a thing *now*. He literally works in radio.

In the interview, he’s talking about the band as an “FM band” (or in this case *not* moving into being an FM band) back then, and how that is both a cause and symptom of what happened in subsequent years. If they had been a stereo/AOR/FM band back 50-some years ago, things wouldn’t have needed as much of the extra nudge and talking up in the 2000s that has needed to happen to make a younger audience pay attention to something that isn’t surf/car/striped shirts or “Kokomo.”

Nobody is saying 20-year-olds are going to listen to “Marcella” on FM today. Nobody is even saying “Marcella” is going to be played on FM today. Or that 20-year-olds listen to terrestrial radio.

The fact that a 20-year-old doesn’t care what Rolling Stone wrote 50 years ago is the point! And why it’s being talked about now is because an *interviewer* asked for some context/history/background on how things got where they were in the 70s, and the early 2000s, and now. That’s what Howie is talking about. These are all distinct eras where the BBs and their catalog and legacy were at different points. The late 90s/early 2000s was very different from the 70s, and 2022 is very different from both eras. Howie is talking in this interview about how things changed through these different eras for the band’s image/legacy/cool factor, whatever you want to call it, and how he set about doing his part to change this perception. I lived through these eras, so did he.

Also, I think it’s far too broad of a statement to say that 20-year-olds in 2022 who are into “FM rock” are already into the Beach Boys. Like, they’re all familiar with “Here She Comes” and “Steamboat?”

And I don't think “Weezer” and that ilk are synonymous with the Blondie/Ricky era of the BBs. Not that anybody is specifically asserting that, but I think this highlights that I think anybody will agree trying to nail down any one demographic down to one or two band examples does not tell the whole story. But what Howie is talking about, and what I have witnessed myself looking at fandom and the big picture of what the relevant “masses” have been into over decades, is the progression from the emphasis on the early era stuff, to the first wave of “nerdy” appreciation for the Pet Sounds/Smile era (hence the references to the UK and features in MOJO, etc.) in the 90s, and the need to shift that narrative again away from only the 60s stuff (and indeed the emphasis often on “crazy Brian”, etc.) and to the 1970-1974-ish era of the band. The “young music nerds” who got into the BBs via “Pet Sounds”  and “Smile” in like the mid 90s were *not* talking anywhere near as much about the 70s stuff. It was all the label could do to justify putting the 70s stuff back out on CD in 2000 in any form, where they had to be pared back from single-album CD reissues filled with bonus tracks, to “two-fers” on one CD.

The modern landscape of how people, especially younger people, listen to and consume and enjoy music (and how word spreads) is very different in 2022, and in some ways far more nebulous to even generalize about. I don’t think anybody thinks this new mix of “Marcella” is going to go viral or trend on Twitter. But it’s the correct step in making the stuff more relevant and opening some doors, as “Feel Flows” (and *talking up* “Feel Flows”) also did and the next set will do.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 10:09:33 AM
If you were offended by the Marcella mix, you'll no doubt feel the same way about Let Us Go On This Way -- it's got a big reverb-y drum sound that's clearly meant to play to the contemporary listener in a way that the entire Love You album distinctly does not.

But Baby Blue -- oh my. Gorgeous. Fully lives up to Howie Edelstein's hype. I'll never want to hear the original mix again.

I like the new mix of Mess of Help -- drums maybe a bit too conspicuous, but dispels the muddiness of the original without committing sacrilege.

Modern "rock" music that would even be anywhere in the same idiom as Beach Boys music tends to have much more prominent drums and guitars. So especially with the drums, these remixes totally make sense and are a welcome and needed alternative.

Some of the drums on some BB stuff that is otherwise pretty rocky and progressive (for the BBs anyway) still are pretty low and pretty flat in those mixes.

It's the same reason they remix like "I Want to Hold Your Hand" so the friggin' handclaps aren't louder than the drums.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ian on June 16, 2022, 10:12:56 AM
I love all the new releases and don’t have any serious audiophile complaints about Feel Flows . My only question is whether I need Sounds of Summer if I already own all of the songs. For anyone starting to collect BBs material it sounds great. I just don’t know if am willing to pay simply for new mixes. I purchased so many comps in the past but then I just listened to Made in California instead-so do I need another greatest hits? But that has nothing to do with this particular comp-it’s a question we all consider every time a new compilation appears. Sometimes I break down and buy it and sometimes I don’t-like I ended up buying the ultra deluxe recent Who Sell Out even though I already owned the previous version with lots of extra tracks. But if five years down the line an even more deluxe one appears-it would be a hard sell.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: terrei on June 16, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
HeyJude, it seems like we listened to a different podcast. Howie explicitly said that he makes decisions about the comps based on what he thinks is "cool" from the perspective of a hypothetical 23-year-old. That is what disturbed the REAL 20-year-olds who lurk around the BBs fan community, none of whom are particularly active on this forum. Almost everything else in your post is, again, irrelevant to that single point. You're approaching this from precisely the same broken and misguided framework as Howie.

Also, I think it’s far too broad of a statement to say that 20-year-olds in 2022 who are into “FM rock” are already into the Beach Boys. Like, they’re all familiar with “Here She Comes” and “Steamboat?”

Do you think a 20-year-old who gets into the Beach Boys in 2022 is just going to stay with Pet Sounds and Smile for the rest of their life? No, eventually they're going to check out the band's other albums. As we all did. We didn't do it because some dude from the company was constantly comparing them to the Beatles, Led Zeppelin and the Who. Or because of a remix that amped up the compression.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 10:56:31 AM
HeyJude, it seems like we listened to a different podcast. Howie explicitly said that he makes decisions about the comps based on what he thinks is "cool" from the perspective of a hypothetical 23-year-old. That is what disturbed the REAL 20-year-olds who lurk around the BBs fan community, none of whom are particularly active on this forum. Almost everything else in your post is, again, irrelevant to that single point.


I don't think he asserted that was the sole reasoning behind how the comps are designed (and keep in mind, as he mentioned, he is one of several on a team making these decisions; he's not unilaterally doing anything, which some on that other board seemed to feel was the case for some reason).

But again, you said the interview implied that 20-year-olds care in 2022 about FM radio (and all the other things you mentioned that I responded to; the things that for some reason are now "irrelevant" even though I wasn't the one who raised those points), and that's all incorrect both in practice and in terms of what was asserted in that interview. You're drawing way too many direct connections between the one statement about having young listeners in mind when working on these releases, and I guess, *everything else* he said in the interview, as if everything else in the interview was meant to relate directly to that one point. Hence the strange assertion that *anybody* suggested 20-year-olds are listening to terrestrial radio, waiting to hear a 70s BB cut.

How does this nebulous group of unaware-yet-adament group of very young, lurker BB fans want to be discussed? A podcast about, in part, the "Sounds of Summer" comp reissue briefly mentioned the idea of making some track selections and doing some remixes to make things more relevant to a newer demographic. What is this nebulous group so offended by? Did *they* listen to the whole interview? Do they know what they were even talking about in the interview? Do they understand background/context, or the concept of an interviewer asking such questions? Did they miss the point or only half-listen to the thing and also think anybody is suggesting they currently, in 2022, are being targeted by a push to FM or something? I'm well aware there are young fans, and lurkers, and people who don't fit into one comfortable category. But I'm skeptical and wary of any characterization of this group that includes some assertion that a bunch are offended by this interview/podcast, as opposed to the weird small group of people who got really bizarrely antagonistic and mean-spirited on that other board. About a few comments in a podcast. About a reissue of a reissue of a hits compilation. In which they clearly missed every point.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: terrei on June 16, 2022, 11:26:40 AM
Once again, HeyJude, you've drowning yourself in rhetoric and obfuscating what Howie actually said:

"What I did was say, "I'm going to cover the Beach Boys like it's the Who, the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, because I want to right a great wrong. I want to cover them like they should have been covered in 1967.""

"I think I bring the cool. I know what's cool. And I know what's cool about them, and I know what hasn't been tapped about them."

"There were songs that I wasn't cool with being on the new comp, and I got outvoted. The stuff that I wanted to back away from was the - my fear is that they will get perceived, worst case scenario, as Pat Boone. As shitty doo-wop. As a public TV special. That's what I don't want. So where am I always pushing is: get the beards, get them playing Central Park. That kind of stuff where they're more modern. The Beach Boys sang about mom and dad, and high school. Unless you're like, somebody who's in the kitsch of like Weezer, and that nerdy kind of thing... Grease ain't cool anymore. You know what I mean? But you know what is cool? Sunflower. Surf's Up. Take A Load Off Your Feet. Student Demonstration Time. Feel Flows. That kind of stuff."

"When Mark was doing the remixes last summer, I was pushing him to go even further. I was saying specifically to him, there are some Beach Boys albums where the album is there, the songs are there, but the production left the band down. Either it was rushed, or it didn't... The production didn't match the quality of the performance and the material. The weak link in a lot of stuff was a shitty mix and bad mastering. So what I was saying to Linett was, "You need to be the producer that they never had then. You need to be the guy that's hearing all that stuff and realizing it. Be the guy in the corner that they needed."

"So as far as it goes at making it understandable to a younger generation, absolutely. Because 62-year-old people, 65-year-old people aren't buying new music. We have to be aiming for the 23-year-old, or this thing dies."



Here's (hopefully) my last words on the subject:

There will never be a time when critics rank So Tough and Holland side-by-side with Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, Aja, Hotel California, and Rumours. We need to accept this.

Isn't it funny how we've gone full circle from "America's Top Surfing Band!" to "America's Top Classic Rock Band!"?

Anyone in charge of marketing and promotion for the Beach Boys needs to stop framing them as "classic rock à la the Beatles and Rolling Stones." If you can't appreciate the fact that the Beach Boys are inimitably kitsch at heart, then you're probably not qualified to be the arbiter of what's "cool" about them.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 11:43:56 AM
Once again, HeyJude, you've drowning yourself in rhetoric and obfuscating what Howie actually said:

"What I did was say, "I'm going to cover the Beach Boys like it's the Who, the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, because I want to right a great wrong. I want to cover them like they should have been covered in 1967.""

"I think I bring the cool. I know what's cool. And I know what's cool about them, and I know what hasn't been tapped about them."

"There were songs that I wasn't cool with being on the new comp, and I got outvoted. The stuff that I wanted to back away from was the - my fear is that they will get perceived, worst case scenario, as Pat Boone. As shitty doo-wop. As a public TV special. That's what I don't want. So where am I always pushing is: get the beards, get them playing Central Park. That kind of stuff where they're more modern. The Beach Boys sang about mom and dad, and high school. Unless you're like, somebody who's in the kitsch of like Weezer, and that nerdy kind of thing... Grease ain't cool anymore. You know what I mean? But you know what is cool? Sunflower. Surf's Up. Take A Load Off Your Feet. Student Demonstration Time. Feel Flows. That kind of stuff."

"When Mark was doing the remixes last summer, I was pushing him to go even further. I was saying specifically to him, there are some Beach Boys albums where the album is there, the songs are there, but the production left the band down. Either it was rushed, or it didn't... The production didn't match the quality of the performance and the material. The weak link in a lot of stuff was a shitty mix and bad mastering. So what I was saying to Linett was, "You need to be the producer that they never had then. You need to be the guy that's hearing all that stuff and realizing it. Be the guy in the corner that they needed."

"So as far as it goes at making it understandable to a younger generation, absolutely. Because 62-year-old people, 65-year-old people aren't buying new music. We have to be aiming for the 23-year-old, or this thing dies."



Here's (hopefully) my last words on the subject:

There will never be a time when critics rank So Tough and Holland side-by-side with Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, Aja, Hotel California, or Rumours. We need to accept this.

Isn't it funny how we've gone full circle from "America's Top Surfing Band!" to "America's Top Classic Rock Band!"?

Anyone in charge of marketing and promotion for the Beach Boys needs to stop framing them as "classic rock à la the Beatles and Rolling Stones." If you can't appreciate the fact that the Beach Boys are inimitably kitsch at heart, then you're probably not qualified to be the arbiter of what's "cool" about them.

You're saying, I guess, that some very specific things are being asserted in that interview about "23-year-olds." I think you're ascribing *far too much* specificity about an interview that was clearly a flowing interview/conversation that was moving between more specific and less specific statements about the band and various fanbases/demographics.

I think your interpretation of this interview is just off base and missing the point, that's all.

Nobody thinks "So Tough" is going to *actually* be ranked alongside Pepper or whatever classic album. The point is to get it *closer* to that than "kitsch."

And your comment about the Beach Boys being "kitsch" at heart is at least something that we can nail down and I can definitely say I disagree with. I'd rather fans and the teams working on these things, while knowing we aren't going to get "Holland" to be side-by-side in everybody's mind to "Dark Side of the Moon" or whatever, try to get it *closer* to there than "kitsch."

Do you know what "kitsch" is?

"art, objects, or design considered to be in poor taste because of excessive garishness or sentimentality, but sometimes appreciated in an ironic or knowing way."

If *you* are satisfied with resigning yourself to accepting people liking BB songs ironically, then have it. If you're happy with *that* being the angle for the Beach Boys to be marketed and discussed, then I think you'd be the one out of a job if Iconic came to you after spending *that* much money on the entire brand only to be told the best angle to market this stuff is as "kitsch."

If everybody working in, for, and around the band had resigned themselves to that fate, we never would have seen something like the "Feel Flows" set.

I'm all for bringing everything in, including the weird, subversive stuff. It can all be a part of the narrative. But it's like trying to turn someone on to the Beach Boys because they did drugs or hung out with Charles Manson. Or because John Stamos thinks they're cool. I'm all for piggybacking off of everything a little bit.

But the band itself already *hasn't* in the past understood the intrinsic value of their unreleased material, to use one example. If you go to them and tell them you want to market them as "kitsch", it's not going to make them *more* enthusiastic about releasing "Holland" outtakes.

All of this ignores how the actual Beach Boys/BRI/Iconic situation works, both now and historically. And that's important, because the team working on these releases isn't just thinking about 20-year-olds. They're also navigating the politics of BRI, Iconic, Capitol/UMe, and the individual band members and their whims.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 12:24:26 PM
If everybody working in, for, and around the band had resigned themselves to that fate, we never would have seen something like the "Feel Flows" set.

I'm all for bringing everything in, including the weird, subversive stuff. It can all be a part of the narrative. But it's like trying to turn someone on to the Beach Boys because they did drugs or hung out with Charles Manson. Or because John Stamos thinks they're cool. I'm all for piggybacking off of everything a little bit.

But the band itself already *hasn't* in the past understood the intrinsic value of their unreleased material, to use one example. If you go to them and tell them you want to market them as "kitsch", it's not going to make them *more* enthusiastic about released "Holland" outtakes.

All of this ignores how the actual Beach Boys/BRI/Iconic situation works, both now and historically. And that's important, because the team working on these releases isn't just thinking about 20-year-olds. They're also navigating the politics of BRI, Iconic, Capitol/UMe, and the individual members and their whims.

BOOM. Sums it up perfectly (the whole post, but specifically this^). As you have written painfully numerous times: Howie isn't the only guy deciding stuff. He is one guy on what is basically a HUGE committee that decides the future of what gets released, what the image of those releases will be, etc. I love the nerdy stuff, and I want it all released, but I also completely understand what Howie is saying. And again, he ain't the only person on the team and this should be ridiculously obvious to people.

We've got to be the most lucky and childish fandom in the history of music. To get the SMiLE boxset (and what a beautiful set it was) and then all of the amazing content we've gotten since. And yet people are incessantly whining about the Feel Flows set because of 10 seconds of supposed unlistenable vocals on 'Hawaiian Dream' (oh the humanity!) - for the life of me I cannot find any moment on the entire set where the audio sounds bad. Maybe I'm listening on the wrong studio headphones, or maybe my $$$$ home stereo system just isn't cutting it anymore to where I can't pick up on some infinitesimal moment of high treble.

And whether or not one agrees with Howie or has a personal preference regarding the sound of the latest releases (to each their own), I just don't see how the reaction to Howie's podcast interview can even be defended. Howie was proud of the mixing that Mark/Alan did on 'Baby Blue' (and apparently it is a great sounding mix) and was called arrogant for his "definitive" comment. Even the administrator of the forum was so obnoxiously flippant when responding to Howie the entire thread. And remember, Howie is the guy who fought long and hard for Feel Flows to even be released. And this is the thanks he gets.

Again, the combination of politics and just the culture of dishonest pleasantry that permeates that forum - the response to such a chill interview is indefensible, imo.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 12:29:32 PM
If you were offended by the Marcella mix, you'll no doubt feel the same way about Let Us Go On This Way -- it's got a big reverb-y drum sound that's clearly meant to play to the contemporary listener in a way that the entire Love You album distinctly does not.

But Baby Blue -- oh my. Gorgeous. Fully lives up to Howie Edelstein's hype. I'll never want to hear the original mix again.

I like the new mix of Mess of Help -- drums maybe a bit too conspicuous, but dispels the muddiness of the original without committing sacrilege.

Hmmm I'm very intrigued by 'Let Us Go On This Way' - based on the two descriptions I've read I don't know if I'll love or hate it. But again I'm glad they're trying something new, instead of just remastering the original mix.

Great to hear about 'Baby Blue' - can't wait to hear that too! I just may stay up until midnight to listen to a bit of this set.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2022, 12:37:32 PM
I will NEVER understand the desire for The Beach Boys to be a guilty pleasure. I just don’t get it. I mean, sh*t, it’s ok if other people like what you like 🙄



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: PetSmile on June 16, 2022, 12:59:13 PM
The music of Brian Wilson is 'kitsch'? That is just laughable. Couldn't be further removed from the truth.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: William Bowe on June 16, 2022, 01:02:01 PM
Quote
Great to hear about 'Baby Blue' - can't wait to hear that too!

It's probably not a coincidence that my favourite of the new 1970s mixes is a song with no drums.

ETA: Listening to the original version on LA now after a couple of plays of the new mix, and I hardly describe how inferior it is.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 16, 2022, 01:14:27 PM
If everybody working in, for, and around the band had resigned themselves to that fate, we never would have seen something like the "Feel Flows" set.

I'm all for bringing everything in, including the weird, subversive stuff. It can all be a part of the narrative. But it's like trying to turn someone on to the Beach Boys because they did drugs or hung out with Charles Manson. Or because John Stamos thinks they're cool. I'm all for piggybacking off of everything a little bit.

But the band itself already *hasn't* in the past understood the intrinsic value of their unreleased material, to use one example. If you go to them and tell them you want to market them as "kitsch", it's not going to make them *more* enthusiastic about released "Holland" outtakes.

All of this ignores how the actual Beach Boys/BRI/Iconic situation works, both now and historically. And that's important, because the team working on these releases isn't just thinking about 20-year-olds. They're also navigating the politics of BRI, Iconic, Capitol/UMe, and the individual members and their whims.

BOOM. Sums it up perfectly (the whole post, but specifically this^). As you have written painfully numerous times: Howie isn't the only guy deciding stuff. He is one guy on what is basically a HUGE committee that decides the future of what gets released, what the image of those releases will be, etc. I love the nerdy stuff, and I want it all released, but I also completely understand what Howie is saying. And again, he ain't the only person on the team and this should be ridiculously obvious to people.

We've got to be the most lucky and childish fandom in the history of music. To get the SMiLE boxset (and what a beautiful set it was) and then all of the amazing content we've gotten since. And yet people are incessantly whining about the Feel Flows set because of 10 seconds of supposed unlistenable vocals on 'Hawaiian Dream' (oh the humanity!) - for the life of me I cannot find any moment on the entire set where the audio sounds bad. Maybe I'm listening on the wrong studio headphones, or maybe my $$$$ home stereo system just isn't cutting it anymore to where I can't pick up on some infinitesimal moment of high treble.

And whether or not one agrees with Howie or has a personal preference regarding the sound of the latest releases (to each their own), I just don't see how the reaction to Howie's podcast interview can even be defended. Howie was proud of the mixing that Mark/Alan did on 'Baby Blue' (and apparently it is a great sounding mix) and was called arrogant for his "definitive" comment. Even the administrator of the forum was so obnoxiously flippant when responding to Howie the entire thread. And remember, Howie is the guy who fought long and hard for Feel Flows to even be released. And this is the thanks he gets.

Again, the combination of politics and just the culture of dishonest pleasantry that permeates that forum - the response to such a chill interview is indefensible, imo.


Well said all around!

I'm catching some deja vu vibes to 2015 when various parts of the No Pier Pressure album were also tagged with the label "unlistenable"...often by posters with less than 10 posts to their history too. So like HeyJude, I have to wonder what's going on if the tag "unlistenable" is being thrown around again, by posters with short or no histories. That's what's happening?

I also don't understand criticism of the Feel Flows set. Opinions are opinions and everyone can have one, but are there people seriously bashing the Feel Flows set too? Maybe that's not surprising...disappointing but not surprising...considering the negative reactions and name-calling that went on when people here and elsewhere were pushing for the set's release through the petition, which was ultimately successful and got a lot of support. Support, despite people elsewhere trying to bash the petition too.

Oh well.

You're right Rab, we're spoiled as fans. Apart from the last few years' worth of releases, I'm still not fully recovered from hearing that 45 minutes of Smile material on the GV box set back in '93, and then the PS Sessions box (one of the best archival releases ever), then Smile Sessions...which won a Grammy!

And people are complaining and calling things unlistenable? FFS, I don't understand that reaction either.

I'm wondering if the politics of this whole scene didn't get mixed in this time too. Who knows.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: All Summer Long on June 16, 2022, 01:17:31 PM
I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.


As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.

Prior to Feel Flows. The way they’re being marketed , and how they are described by the music media, has certainly changed.

This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum. I know a lot of people think of Fleetwood Mac’s popularity being mainly due to the Tik Tok thing with Dreams are missing the boat… same with the Kate Bush song being on Stranger Things and is currently #4 on the Hot 100…. these are legacy artists that were already starting to get traction amongst a younger fan base (and in the Mac’s case it’s the Bob Welch period that has gained a lot of traction; conversely the Peter Green era has lost a lot of steam) .
There are songs charting that sound retro; not “manufactured major label artists” but artists from mid sized indies who write and play their own music.

As far as the Beatles goes, I’m mostly  referring to raw numbers, along with how they’re viewed in comparison by the younger set overall, musicians , media and general public alike . Hell look at music discussions on YouTube or browse non beach boys sites that deal with music that aren’t Hoffman (too old of a crowd). My daughter’s 15 next month and she can pretty much spot trends right before they happen. Hindsight and the lack of cultural bias is an amazing eye opener . We are too close to the action. I’ve been on these boards for over 26 years . I was a younger fan of 17 but the world has changed immensely since . Imagine hearing the band now as a new fan and having SO much available legally and easily be able to put things in context with bias.

This really deserves its own thread but for the first time ever things are lining up perfectly for The Beach Boys, and this time it’s past the point of being able to screw things up.


Billy C, thanks for the explanation. I’ll just say that I’m among the age group Howie wants to target but I’m not good at spotting trends  ;) probably because I don’t like today’s music and therefore have only a fairly small group of people I can talk music with.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 16, 2022, 01:24:23 PM
The music of Brian Wilson is 'kitsch'? That is just laughable. Couldn't be further removed from the truth.

I don't get that label either. By any stretch of the term's definition, I don't see nor have I ever seen the appeal of Brian's music as "kitschy".

I was reminded of the emotional appeal - the deep emotion in many cases - of the music when I rewatched last night that BBC promo that used "God Only Knows" and which featured a number of famous musicians alongside Brian himself doing the song. It may be deliberately tugging on the emotions to use the song that way, but it definitely worked for what it was trying to do, and it was absolutely not kitsch. It could have easily gone into kitsch territory, but it did not. Instead the music, the song itself, transcended everything and it was powerful just to hear it. That's the mark of a great work.

That's just my opinion.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
If someone wants to categorize the music and enjoy it as kitsch for themselves, then have at it.

But I think this speaks in part to an issue I do see sometimes when it comes to discussing the "big picture" about the band's legacy/status/perceptions, etc. That is, I think some fans don't care. It's like "I've got the music I like, I don't care who else likes it, and I'm ambivalent about how we can make it more relevant to others in the future."

Some people just want to say what they think, assume they're right, fold their arms, mic drop, and they're done.

I think that's just too narrow, too much of a bubble, too insular.

That doesn't meant we have to harangue every person we meet about how great the band is over and over, or do weird contortions or backflips or cluelessly pander to people to like trick them into liking the music.

All it means is having a bit of a broader view of the whole thing, an understanding all aspects of it. This includes the history of the band, how it has been perceived in different eras, and how actions from the band (and the label, and media) both caused some of these issues, or were a reaction to these issues.

If for instance you don't get what the BBs not being on FM radio in the early-mid 70s means, what it was a result of, and what it caused afterwards, and how that is relevant to what is happening today (while understanding nobody is saying that the answer for what to do NOW has anything to do with literally playing them on FM radio in 2022), then it's just my opinion that you're probably better off just listening to what you like and doing your thing and might not have the context and information/knowledge to tell a team currently working on BB projects how they should go about doing their job.

Nobody is trying to make the band #1 on TikTok. It's just about nudging things forward. Throwing your arms up in the air and saying "I give up, it's only ever going to be liked as kitsch" is not the answer. Being resigned to the 70s stuff never being embraced *any* more than it is now by new and young fans is not the answer. In my opinion, of course.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 01:42:12 PM
I'm catching some deja vu vibes to 2015 when various parts of the No Pier Pressure album were also tagged with the label "unlistenable"...often by posters with less than 10 posts to their history too. So like HeyJude, I have to wonder what's going on if the tag "unlistenable" is being thrown around again, by posters with short or no histories. That's what's happening?

Definitely deja vu vibes to NPP. There was that 10 second iPhone video of an 'On The Island' session that sent some "fans" into a full-blown panic because they suspected "autotune". There was so much petulant backlash that Brian/Management issued a statement about the negative responses. To an iPhone recording of a bossa nova song. Think about that.

This is similar, where something as harmless as a podcast interview turns into a complete shitshow on a forum. Thankfully, since NPP was released, most of those brilliant music critics have gone to the EH forum...Which is exactly why the shitshow took place there and not here.

I will NEVER understand the desire for The Beach Boys to be a guilty pleasure. I just don’t get it. I mean, sh*t, it’s ok if other people like what you like 🙄

It was embarrassing 10 years ago (when I first became a huge fan) to bring this band up to people. Many times I'd hear more about Uncle Jesse than anything else. I know other fans have gone through much worse. So yeah, I appreciate any effort to elevate these guys above Kokomo and and Uncle Jesse references. And in the last 10 years I have seen a shift in tone about The Beach Boys. Not sure why, but perhaps the ongoing PR for the last 10 years has had some effect.

On another note, I implore people to type in 'Shut Down' into their preferred streaming/music service, and listen to the first 10 seconds of each old/vintage mix of that song, then listen to the new 2021 version. It is absolutely like night and day in terms of quality. There is a ton of clarity and life in the 2021 version. The bg vocals aren't panned to the right anymore for stereo. It is just full (in a good way).

If the other early songs are mixed like this we are really in for a treat!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 16, 2022, 01:44:33 PM
Just for perspective, the GV box set I mentioned which blew a lot of minds when it came out is coming up on its 30th anniversary...and the set itself upon its release was tagged "30 Years Of The Beach Boys". So we're one year away from being directly in the middle of 30/30. That's pretty amazing to consider.

That set did more to move the band forward and keep the fire burning among a new generation than perhaps anything I can think of from that era. People heard that set and wanted more. People who were casual fans bought that set and realized how much more there was. I had already taken a deep dive into the band by 1993, but it really crystallized and validated a lot of this music for many of us.

If that set had not come out, alongside of course Pet Sounds on CD a few years prior and other archival releases, the band might not have moved forward into a new generation as it did. It was Jekyll and Hyde in 1993, and that box set reminded fans of my generation what existed beyond greatest hits shows and dancing cheerleaders on stage. I think the rerelease of Pet Sounds and that GV box set helped save the band's legacy from going too far into kitsch, which the stage show and other promotional appearances unfortunately was veering close to doing at that time.

There always has to be something to do that trick for any legacy act.  To move forward and get new generations on board.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 16, 2022, 01:45:08 PM
Only skimming posts as I'm tired/lazy but whoever said "You know what I mean? But you know what is cool? Sunflower. Surf's Up. Take A Load Off Your Feet. Student Demonstration Time. Feel Flows. That kind of stuff."

Can we at least agree that "Student Demonstration Time" will never be cool? not then, not now, not ever!

I await an essay on why SDT is in fact ground breaking and paved the way for the success of Full House years later.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 02:03:22 PM
I think the idea with something like "Student Demonstration Time" is that it opens the door; it can start a different conversation.

Nobody is going to be like "Hey, you like Zeppelin? The Stones? Well, let me play you Student Demonstration Time!"

But it's a piece of the story that helps tells you "this band eventually went beyond singing about their parents and going to visit grandma, eventually moved past singing about what it would be like to eventually become an adult, and they did actually entertain a harder-edged sound sometimes." It's one little part of the story signaling they were willing to add guitars, they were willing to sing about something socially relevant. Same with "Don't Go Near the Water", etc. It doesn't mean every lyric was like Dylan, or that they approached every bit of all of that completely organically.

Sometimes it's just about putting something out there that's relevant to starting a conversation and a small part of moving perceptions. Maybe the precise intent and certainly the later reflection upon the song isn't what's cool so much as the song *existing* and being a part of the story of that era helps to show that the band and their music was cool.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2022, 02:10:09 PM
I'm catching some deja vu vibes to 2015 when various parts of the No Pier Pressure album were also tagged with the label "unlistenable"...often by posters with less than 10 posts to their history too. So like HeyJude, I have to wonder what's going on if the tag "unlistenable" is being thrown around again, by posters with short or no histories. That's what's happening?

Definitely deja vu vibes to NPP. There was that 10 second iPhone video of an 'On The Island' session that sent some "fans" into a full-blown panic because they suspected "autotune". There was so much petulant backlash that Brian/Management issued a statement about the negative responses. To an iPhone recording of a bossa nova song. Think about that.

This is similar, where something as harmless as a podcast interview turns into a complete shitshow on a forum. Thankfully, since NPP was released, most of those brilliant music critics have gone to the EH forum...Which is exactly why the shitshow took place there and not here.

I will NEVER understand the desire for The Beach Boys to be a guilty pleasure. I just don’t get it. I mean, sh*t, it’s ok if other people like what you like 🙄

It was embarrassing 10 years ago (when I first became a huge fan) to bring this band up to people. Many times I'd hear more about Uncle Jesse than anything else. I know other fans have gone through much worse. So yeah, I appreciate any effort to elevate these guys above Kokomo and and Uncle Jesse references. And in the last 10 years I have seen a shift in tone about The Beach Boys. Not sure why, but perhaps the ongoing PR for the last 10 years has had some effect.

On another note, I implore people to type in 'Shut Down' into their preferred streaming/music service, and listen to the first 10 seconds of each old/vintage mix of that song, then listen to the new 2021 version. It is absolutely like night and day in terms of quality. There is a ton of clarity and life in the 2021 version. The bg vocals aren't panned to the right anymore for stereo. It is just full (in a good way).

If the other early songs are mixed like this we are really in for a treat!

Be glad you didn’t become a fan in the 90s like me! That appearance on Home Improvement was an embarrassment. I *never* want to go back to the days where they were best known for popping up on milquetoast “comedies” for boomers and Karens . That trash was lame af. Of course, the fact is that’s no longer the case , which means a certain segment of the fan base no longer feels special and unique for liking a band most other people made fun of. Those people need to get over themselves, grow a set (yeah I’m using their words now ) , and accept the fact that time has passed them by. The world moves on. Deal with it.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 16, 2022, 02:32:14 PM
You're right - it's all there. No doubt it will become available wherever you are when the clock strikes midnight, as it has just done here in Australia.

Everything seems to be on YouTube now.

Edit: Most everything.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 16, 2022, 02:32:47 PM
An issue that I’ve noticed creeping up over time is that the number of fans who are both familiar with new/young/modern fans and audiences and how those people consume/discover/enjoy music, and are *also* well-versed on the history of the band (beyond a few bios and Wikipedia or just knowing the discography; like being able to contextualize the full history of the band and its popularity, etc.) are relatively few in number.

To be clear, that’s okay. We don’t have to all be experts on everything. But if we’re going to have conversations about these things (and pick apart how *other* talk about these things), then we need know our s**t, and/or know when to say “please tell me more, I’m not as familiar with that”, or whatever.

A lot of newer, young fans might be able to tell you a lot about how they consume and discover music, and what they and their various social groups find “cool” or not, etc. But new fans, even those who have absorbed a lot of info/history relatively quickly (much easier to do now than it was in the 90s and earlier obviously; there are both more books and more internet resources), often don’t know enough of the history to be able to contextualize everything. You say you don’t care what was happening with the band on radio in the 70s? Well, if your only goal is to just listen to the band’s music and enjoy it for yourself, then you don’t need to know anything about anything. But if you’re telling me you’re a true/hardcore/scholarly fan, and/or you want to have a conversation about this stuff, then yeah, you need to know those things, or at least be willing to have someone educate you on it (or seek that info out yourself). And if you don’t care about that stuff and don’t want to have those conversations, then don’t burst into the room and pick apart someone *else’s* conversation about those topics.

A great BB scholar and author once used the term “adamant but unaware” to describe a phenomenon surrounding bits of fandom from time to time, and I think this is an apt way to put it. And it certainly applies to other “fandoms” as well. Every hot button topic on Twitter is almost exclusively “adamant but unaware” commentators. We avoid a lot of that here simply because of the nature of old school message boards. But it still happens, and as I mentioned earlier, I’m especially skeptical of characterizations of nebulous groups of “young” fans and having their supposed views represented while they (whoever “they” are) don’t actually engage in conversation here themselves.  


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 16, 2022, 05:10:46 PM
The new "marcella" is incredible


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: 18thofMay on June 16, 2022, 06:23:19 PM
The new "marcella" is incredible

I agree, I'm just catching up on this thread.....


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 16, 2022, 07:09:42 PM
I'm not quite sure what's going on with "let us go on this way"

Maybe I need to give it time


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 16, 2022, 07:21:23 PM
I'm not quite sure what's going on with "let us go on this way"

Maybe I need to give it time

Can you tell us what the new mix of ‘I Get Around’ sounds like?

Also glad to see others are enjoying the new Marcella mix too. As I said from the get-go, I can totally see why some don’t like it (it is a very different sound). But man it scratches an itch I didn’t even know I had - really has a great punch to it.

Just a couple more hours and I’ll be able to listen to the whole set!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 16, 2022, 09:21:15 PM
I'm not quite sure what's going on with "let us go on this way"

Maybe I need to give it time

Can you tell us what the new mix of ‘I Get Around’ sounds like?

Also glad to see others are enjoying the new Marcella mix too. As I said from the get-go, I can totally see why some don’t like it (it is a very different sound). But man it scratches an itch I didn’t even know I had - really has a great punch to it.

Just a couple more hours and I’ll be able to listen to the whole set!

Quick listen just now.

Vocals sound great, drums are suspect


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 16, 2022, 09:54:56 PM
Just got through listening to Wind Chimes on disc 2. everything sounds ok…except Do It Again. What happened to the drum sound?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 17, 2022, 12:27:50 AM
Mess of Help…I dug the fact that Brian is way more audible… Much prefer the way the lead was mixed here as well


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 17, 2022, 01:27:43 AM
I'm hearing a lot of distortion/high end on the new mixes. I'm listening with headphones on a free Deezer plan which is 128 kb/s which maybe just doesn't cut it when all the compression from streaming is added in.

I'm a vinyl guy (smug, look at me!) and hardly ever use streaming sites. I'd imagine the vast majority of people will listen on streaming sites though.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2022, 02:04:24 AM
Not that anyone will read through this, but I wrote out some thoughts regarding many of the new mixes.

Surfin USA - outstanding.

Surfer Girl - I find it odd how low the drums are in the mix compared to previous versions. I don’t dislike it, but it’s a pretty big change from the original. The vocals are beautifully mixed.

Don’t Worry Baby - phenomenal. My new favorite version.

When I Grow Up - this is a very clear mix. Every instrument is easily able to be picked out. Great vocal mix. I love that the harpsichord is much more prominent in the outro. And that reverb on the vocals sounds great, especially in the outro.

In My Room - maybe my favorite new mix of that song.

Dance Dance Dance - like When I Grow Up, I love that everything is prominent in the mix and mixed perfectly. Though the very tail end of the outro (the last 2 seconds) sounds a bit disjointed - something definitely not present on previous mixes. 10/10 though, wonderfully mixed.

Good To My Baby - this mix sounds a bit fuller than the previous stereo mixes. It doesn’t sound like too much has changed, but everything just sounds more immersive now (same with the new mix of Barbara Ann).

Wild Honey - this puts the biggest smile on my face. I love how prominent and full the bass sounds. Everything else is perfectly mixed.

LUGOTW - wow, this is quite a different mix, but it really rocks. Honestly hope they remix the whole album this way. We have the original and it’s great to hear this in a totally new way (and it really does keep the spirit of the original mix there, it is just bolder).

YNAMOH - I just wish the vocals were a little higher in the mix. But wow is this a huge change for the better from the original. I love the original mix, but you can tell just how muddy the original is when comparing to this. Every instrument comes in crystal clear on this version.

Baby Blue - whoaaa. Gotta agree with Howie, this is phenomenal. Implore anyone to compare the old mix with this - like night and day in clarity.

Do You Like Worms - halfway through this I am not only smiling at the awesome mix, but at the thought of some new fan listening to this set and hearing Do You Like Worms of all things! If anyone isn’t confident in the decisions being made about the marketing/future of this band, just remember that an immersive mix of Do You Like Worms will be listened to by a lot of casual fans. That is kick ass.

San Miguel - sounds pretty much exactly like the 2020 version, but man is it a good mix.

Susie Cincinnati - honestly can’t keep up with all the mixes of this that have been done in recent years haha. But I’m grateful that those in charge feel it deserves a place on these sets. Such an underrated gem and this version doesn’t disappoint.

Can’t Wait Too Long - all of my favorite elements of CWTL all rolled into one succinct mix (though I’m missing the higher sung “reliving the times” vocal). Not sure if a similar mix has ever been released, but I really dig this.

One thing I’ve noticed is that, if you’re listening on Apple Music, Dolby Atmos makes a *huge* difference in how the mix sounds. I found that when it’s turned on the mix sounds very digitized/distorted, and when it’s off the mix sounds very warm (for the modern mixes that is).

I have noticed others commenting on the variation of sound between platforms. I am not sure how much difference codecs make in the listening experience, but I know there are sonic differences between the way Spotify translates music to the speakers and the way Apple’s file system (AAC I think) delivers the audio. It effects quality for sure.

Overall I love this set and for sure it will win over some fans. I like some mixes more than others, overall a great effort by those who worked on this. I can’t wait to see what’s coming next!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 17, 2022, 04:30:19 AM
Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.

You’re right… my apologies. Hell, we all have celebrating to do… listened to the new set twice already 😎


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2022, 05:56:09 AM
Celebrating indeed! Even amongst some potshots taken at this forum haha, it’s great to see that elsewhere people are still mostly enjoying the set as well. I can definitely see why this wouldn’t be everyone’s thing (a lot of these new mixes take some big steps away from the norm). But it seems to be getting most people excited which is awesome.

I hope everyone, everywhere has a great day full of listening to this great music. This set will be on repeat for me today while I work. Thanks to everyone who had a hand in making it!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 17, 2022, 10:33:05 AM
This is a great set to add to my collection. Dispatched today, excited for it to arrive.

Thanks to all involved for your hard work as usual


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 17, 2022, 10:54:54 AM
I'm digging it. I love the remixes that sound drastically different.

The early era remixes are obviously less drastic; sounds like they're just trying to spread the stereo spectrum where they can.

Love the "Let Us Go On This Way" remix on first couple listens. Sounds like the mix is trying to fill the full audio spectrum, since that album has such a distinct sound (little bass, lots of snare without a full drum kit, etc.), with trying to thicken up the drums and fill the low-end out with whatever they can. I love the new spread on the backing vocals on this one as well, and it also sounds like the guitar was brought up as much as it could be.

I also quite dig the "Mess of Help" remix; I like the remixes that bring up both the drums *and* the vocals/backing vocals.

And yeah, "Baby Blue" sounds great. Proof that even the later-era stuff in the later 70s and into the 80s could sound great remixes. "LA" and "KTSA" (and BB '85 and even the "Still Cruisin'" stuff) should all be remixed at some point.

More thoughts as I listen and re-listen.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 17, 2022, 11:15:35 AM
This is better than I expected.

And yes, what they did with Baby Blue was exquisite.

And some people owe Howie an apology.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 17, 2022, 11:56:37 AM
Forgot to specifically mention the great backing vocals brought up in the mix at the end of the "Baby Blue" remix.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: bonnevillemariner on June 17, 2022, 12:05:21 PM
The backing track of Baby Blue sounds exquisite, but the vocals still sound pretty muddy. In fact, the noise behind Carl's voice in this mix seems much more prominent. It sounds like he's on a CB radio somewhere.

I haven't followed the track listing much, but I was excited to hear this release would include tracks from Still Cruisin'. Maybe on certain versions? Cause the only Still Cruisin' track I see on Spotify is Kokomo.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 17, 2022, 12:07:42 PM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 17, 2022, 12:17:24 PM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 17, 2022, 12:27:11 PM
OK thanks Rab, that works, but now I see that Amazon Prime has incorrectly labelled  mono tracks as "stereo". That type of sloppiness is inexcusable for paying customers. And then BRI wonders why we might be tempted to scavenge for bootleg tracks.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: terrei on June 17, 2022, 02:35:20 PM
If no one here's gonna say it, then I will. These remasters and remixes are dreadfully brittle. Most of them sound like they're on the verge of crumbling into a thousand pieces. Like they're being held together by Elmer's glue and rubber bands.

Baby Blue is possibly the worst offender. That compression. That hiss. "The definitive mix"? Holy tomatoes.

Why do the horns on Let Us Go On This Way sound like they were recorded on a flip phone from 2005?

God help you, Mark. And God help listeners with misophonia. I'd never recommend this set as an entry point to the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 17, 2022, 03:45:13 PM
Just listened in my car via Apple Music so far, but I agree with the love for the Baby Blue mix. It's so detailed and orchestral I almost thought the Royal Philharmonic was accompanying here too. Funniest thing- I listened to the first 30 tracks in Dolby Atmos in my car, except that my 2020 Honda Civic is equipped with seven speakers and DTS Neural virtual surround, so I would guess I'm getting a different sound than what I should be hearing, but albums like Abbey Road, Elton John's Diamonds set, Queen's song Another One Bites the Dust and some others sound fantastic and very immersive. For the SoS Dolby Atmos->DTS Neural songs, the best sounding ones are the Pet Sounds tracks. In fact, a lot of the tracks from 31 to 80 in stereo produce nicer virtual surround effects and sound better overall than the Atmos ones
But the most interesting Dolby Atmos->DTS Neural tracks is Be True To Your School, which is of course mono on the CD. But in my car, it provides the biggest surround spread of all the tracks, in good old fashioned muddy, smeary near-Duophonic! it almost brought tears of nostalgia to my eyes.   


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Howie Edelson on June 17, 2022, 03:59:18 PM
I was walking to pick my kids up the other day and blasting Sounds Of Summer on shuffle and "Wind Chimes' came on. Now, I've always preferred the Smiley version of the tune and I find myself only really listening to SMiLE in the fall and winter -- it's never been summer music for me. But with it being the first stereo version, I let it play through. Now, this was just a gorgeous New York City spring day. We don't really get many anymore, for years it's felt like it goes from April to August. But hearing that bombastic bridge/B-section -- the horns, the harmonies, mixed with the perfect temperature, lush trees, and eden-like sunshine -- my heart just exploded. It was LITERALLY "the thing." It took me RIGHT to that place. The place where there's joy, and hope, and you can't help but look and DWELL on the bright side. Just ZENITH Beach Boys heaven.

After all these years, that's never happened with me and that song until the other day and THIS comp. Perfect timing.

Sounds Of Summer is amazing and done with love -- and the band is THRILLED with it.
Some stuff may not be for everyone -- and GOOD; I'd loathe to live in a world where we were all the same.

This is the deal, it's anyone's prerogative to have and voice opinions on ANYTHING, but I've found that the people who do -- and do so negatively, often and VOCIFEROUSLY (usually with an ugly and personal bent) do it because NO ONE asks THEM their opinion. The unseen seem to either remain invisible -- or choose to spread ugliness (e.g. "This is bad. . . This is wrong. . .  I hate this. . . )

I'm SO LUCKY that with the work I do, I'm part of a team that aims to spread the goodness, instead of feeling so left out and unseen that I need to spit and curse loudly in the street to prove I'm actually here.

That would break my heart.

Have a GREAT weekend everybody -- thanks for all the love and well wishes we've been getting on the set.
It's the best music.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 17, 2022, 04:06:11 PM
I second the love for the Smile tracks in stereo, and I do very much like many of the radically different mixes, although I wish parts of Marcella were not buried.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 17, 2022, 04:14:46 PM
That magnificent picture of Carl and Dennis on the second to last page of the liners is oh so cool.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: picassosson on June 17, 2022, 05:48:55 PM
I want to like this release so badly, and was very excited when the news dropped. Really enjoyed the new Good Vibrations mix, despite the whole "s-gate" thing. I'm not at all opposed to remixes - and I'm so glad that Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have the opportunity to do them, but I just don't understand why they keep using stuff like unnatural sounding digital reverb or extreme EQ choices like ungodly levels of treble. Is it so hard to just stick with the stuff that's printed on the tape, without too much pro tools ****ery?

I realize that everyone is trying their best, and doing all they can to get us new beach boys material. I'm not a purist, and I don't think its fair to dismiss people's concerns as not being open to "new" mixes. But there are a couple things that keep coming up that I wish Mark, Alan, Howie et. al would listen to - mainly:

1) The treble and bass is really juiced, and make some of the tracks sound harsh to the point of being painful for some people. Its weird because it doesn't seem equally applied to all the tracks. For instance, the new remix of "Good Vibrations" or "Worms" isn't that harsh, but the remix of "Marcella" is. There was a lot of variance of this on the "Feel Flows" set as well. This isn't a new trend and holds true for some random material on the Made In California box - for instance the remix of "Do It Again" is a little bright, but its not going to make your ears bleed. However a lot of the 70s remixes on that set like "It's Over Now", "It's OK", and "Why" have so much top end on them it’s almost like a supersonic dog whistle. I want to be able to enjoy listening to that outtake of "Why" so badly, but it literally hurts my ears due to the top end being so unbalanced. It seems like it would be pretty easy to stop doing this, I don't see what its really adding to the listening experience.

2) Cool it on the digital reverb, and extraneous modern pro tools plugins that "enhance" the sound. I know some people can ignore it, but for others - it so obviously sounds like its not part of the original recording and it sticks out like a sore thumb, taking you out of the listening experience. The recent "Good Vibrations" remix sounds kinda okay to me in this department. "Shut Down" sounds like its been lathered in something totally unnatural, as do whatever crazy echo they coated the drums with in "Marcella" and "Let Us Go On This Way". If this is a indication as to how we're going to get outtakes from the “Brian’s Back” period in the future I think I’m going to go off to a corner and cry.  I liked a lot of the remixes on "Feel Flows" (again not being a purist) - "San Miguel" and "Celebrate The News" for instance always sounded muddy as hell, and it was a fun alternative to hear more separation and detail, even if the EQ is incredibly harsh. Same goes for the remixes of "Games Two Can Play" and "Good Time". As to "Baby Blue" on this set, does nobody notice how the tape hiss that mysteriously reappears and disappears every time Carl’s vocal punches in? I generally don’t mind hearing tape hiss, but when it’s appearance is obviously highlighting the artificial edits on a mix it’s pretty distracting.

I realize you can't please everyone, and you can't make a mix that will make every Beach Boys fan happy. But I see these same types of complaints coming up a lot, and I don't think they would get a lot of counter feedback if they just suddenly stopped doing these things. I didn't read a lot of people complaining about the "Wake The World"/"I Can Hear Music" or "Sunshine Tomorrow" sets. I didn't hear much of "oh man - this sounds so dull I really wish there was WAY more treble on these tracks!" Or - "I really wish the bass on 'Bluebirds Over The Mountain' was rattling my trunk and scaring my cats" Or "why the hell didn't you make 'Do It Again' sound like it was recorded in a CGI cavern?" I don't know, these things don't sound that unreasonable to me. I'm not a luddite or seeking some undefinable sonic audiophile perfection. I just want to listen to this stuff a LOT, i.e. repeatedly (not once for novelty) and I don't want it to LITERALLY hurt my ears. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll give kudos where kudos is due however - "Feel Flows" was not brickwalled, as were none of the copyright sets or "Made In California", and for that I will be forever grateful.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 17, 2022, 08:54:50 PM
I just flat out don't like what has been done to a lot of these songs.

I'm glad I bought it and I'm thankful for all the hard work but this should not have replaced a pretty much perfect and massively successful compilation album

Pointless


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: PetSmile on June 17, 2022, 11:56:07 PM
I really hate to say this, but I kinda feel I have to, as they might see our very valid criticisms and reevaluate things for '72 box set.

There distortion issues (like on DWB's bridge and stuff) and the compression is not acceptable for a Beach Boys release. It's just not on. It's really inconsistent all the way through this set, and there are more poorly mixed tracks than well-mixed tracks, I reckon.

I'm in the target audience for this stuff (early 20s) and I still have major concerns about the mixing/mastering of this breathtaking music.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: sea of tunes on June 18, 2022, 12:12:57 AM
Listening via Apple Music (lossless)...I like some of the mixes. The Dolby Atmos presentation I can take or leave. I forgot how much I like "Getcha Back" and "Good Timin'".

I like the new mixes fine, Mark Linett always does a fine job with the re-mixes (mostly). I'm a bit of a traditionalist though. If it was originally released in mono, that's kind of how I like to hear it. Modern remixes are "fun" and occasionally revelatory but that's it.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: humanoidboogie on June 18, 2022, 12:35:17 AM
I was walking to pick my kids up the other day and blasting Sounds Of Summer on shuffle and "Wind Chimes' came on. Now, I've always preferred the Smiley version of the tune and I find myself only really listening to SMiLE in the fall and winter -- it's never been summer music for me. But with it being the first stereo version, I let it play through. Now, this was just a gorgeous New York City spring day. We don't really get many anymore, for years it's felt like it goes from April to August. But hearing that bombastic bridge/B-section -- the horns, the harmonies, mixed with the perfect temperature, lush trees, and eden-like sunshine -- my heart just exploded. It was LITERALLY "the thing." It took me RIGHT to that place. The place where there's joy, and hope, and you can't help but look and DWELL on the bright side. Just ZENITH Beach Boys heaven.

After all these years, that's never happened with me and that song until the other day and THIS comp. Perfect timing.

Great post! I love both the SMiLE and Smiley Smile versions of Wind Chimes — amazing music! The stereo mix of Wind Chimes on SoS is actually a 1:1 copy of the stereo mix first issued on Made in California back in 2013. Same mix, EQ and mastering. It sounds amazing and I’m glad it’s on the new Sounds of Summer!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 18, 2022, 02:31:01 AM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SonicVolcano on June 18, 2022, 02:49:10 AM
The new "marcella" is incredible

Agreed. My favourite of the whole set. Being able to hear Brian and Jack so clearly is just awesome.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 08:40:31 AM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.

Yeah there are some oddities for sure, such as the guitar track on Surfin Safari - one of my favorite earlier tracks - and there is a lot of digital distortion noticeable on that guitar track (though the vocals are mixed gorgeously). And yeah, I did notice abrupt hiss clips in one or two of the tracks. But thankfully these oddities are rare for me, and overall all the remixes sound fantastic to my ears, and given only 24 of 80 tracks are remixed, a couple of those tracks having oddities doesn't really effect my experience.

I think there are also massive differences in the mix depending on the way you listen to it. The difference between Dolby Atmos being on and off is huge (I prefer it being off). I mentioned audio codecs before and I think that is at play here (which is why there are differences in quality/sound between platforms). Also having any EQ on Spotify (and Apple Music) effects how the mix sounds. Also there is a difference in sound when listening to wired/analog vs Bluetooth. There are a lot of variables to consider in the digital age.

On another note, I see people are now complaining about Carl and Dennis' tracks being tinkered with (this is somehow sacrilege). Didn't Chuck Britz help Brian with mixing the early-mid-60s output of The Beach Boys? Is it sacrilege that he isn't here to give his token of approval on the mixes he helped Brian with? People are scraping the bottom of the barrel to trash this project.

Anywho, I'm off for a drive, gonna put the windows down and crank this new set. It's gonna be a good day :)


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 18, 2022, 08:49:58 AM
Talkin about "Baby Blue".....probably should be a different thread but I always loved that whistling section that was on the "Bamboo" boots and felt that the "late at night" vocal was not needed.

In the strange world of the late 90's, I couldn't get hold of the LA track but had that boot taped live off Real Player on some BB fan website about 5 years before I ever heard the LA version.

I made a few cover versions of my own and was a bit obsessed with it.

Found a vinyl copy at a record fair of "LA" and rushed home to play it on my friends player as I didn't have one. Was interested to hear how different it was but felt a bit sterile and lifeless compared to the boot.

anyway...that's enough of my old man rambling  ;D


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 18, 2022, 09:06:17 AM
And sadly the lies continue over there. I really hate breaking in like this because I do have a lot of thoughts on the new mixes, but for God's sake just tell the truth and stop the lies about this place and things that happened 5-7 years ago, guys. Now it's Paul JB saying people were banned for expressing opinions against Brian Wilson or defending Mike Love.

That NEVER HAPPENED. Period.

I never had an issue with Paul, and always enjoyed reading what he said, so it's very disappointing to now see someone like Paul continuing to spread outright lies.

People were banned for their behavior on the board, breaking or ignoring the rules and warnings from the mods, and patterns of bad behavior sometimes going back years. That same behavior was on display on other BB's forums through the years which led to bans on those forums, including the Pet Sounds Forum where one of the admins got banned by his own mods for his behavior and outbursts, including going off on the mods.

So do you want to talk facts? We have those and would be happy to open the archives to show what these people did who were banned here. Not a single ban was done for criticizing Brian or defending Mike. Period. If someone has information to add to that, please let me, Billy, and Charles know because we know how and why the bans happened. 

Or would you rather talk about music? It doesn't seem that way, but I hope that's why people visit these places. Throwing tantrums on 6 year old grudges and outbursts must be more appealing?

Just stop the lies. In this case, the person spreading them is better than that, which is the only reason why I'm saying this again when the focus should be the music.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 18, 2022, 09:15:40 AM
The highlight for me so far is Do You Like Worms, that was a surprise that I didn't expect, but the separation of the tracks really gives it a cool new listening experience. And overall I've been enjoying hearing the bass parts throughout the new mixes that are much more audible and you get to hear the great tone and touch that these parts had originally but often got buried on the original mixes. It's cool to hear them note for note, I noticed it prominently on a song like Darlin.

Some work better than others, but that's always par for the course.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Awesoman on June 18, 2022, 09:38:06 AM
My disc isn't expected to arrive until Wednesday.  😡  However I have been listening to the compilation in Amazon Music HD (gettin' fancy with the 24-bit masters!).  Assuming that Amazon didn't f__k up using the wrong masters of these songs, what I have heard so far sounds pretty good.  Sounds like there are more songs with changes to the mix than what was originally reported.  "Rock and Roll Music" is lifted directly from the Made In California extended version except they omitted the extra verse included in that version.  Looking forward to hearing this in full and may eventually pick up the vinyl release of it too.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Original Mix on June 18, 2022, 09:49:37 AM
Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park.
Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways.
Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer. I appreciate the effort you all put into this set.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Original Mix on June 18, 2022, 09:58:31 AM


Or would you rather talk about music? It doesn't seem that way, but I hope that's why people visit these places. Throwing tantrums on 6 year old grudges and outbursts must be more appealing?



if that really is how you feel great. but you really should remove that latin phrase under your avatar post. goes against what you are preaching.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 10:08:08 AM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.

Yeah there are some oddities for sure, such as the guitar track on Surfin Safari - one of my favorite earlier tracks - and there is a lot of digital distortion noticeable on that guitar track (though the vocals are mixed gorgeously). And yeah, I did notice abrupt hiss clips in one or two of the tracks. But thankfully these oddities are rare for me, and overall all the remixes sound fantastic to my ears, and given only 24 of 80 tracks are remixed, a couple of those tracks having oddities doesn't really effect my experience.

I think there are also massive differences in the mix depending on the way you listen to it. The difference between Dolby Atmos being on and off is huge (I prefer it being off). I mentioned audio codecs before and I think that is at play here (which is why there are differences in quality/sound between platforms). Also having any EQ on Spotify (and Apple Music) effects how the mix sounds. Also there is a difference in sound when listening to wired/analog vs Bluetooth. There are a lot of variables to consider in the digital age.

On another note, I see people are now complaining about Carl and Dennis' tracks being tinkered with (this is somehow sacrilege). Didn't Chuck Britz help Brian with mixing the early-mid-60s output of The Beach Boys? Is it sacrilege that he isn't here to give his token of approval on the mixes he helped Brian with? People are scraping the bottom of the barrel to trash this project.

Anywho, I'm off for a drive, gonna put the windows down and crank this new set. It's gonna be a good day :)

No.

Brian was the producer for most of  the ‘60s material. Carl was the primary producer for many of the ‘70s tracks. Many of the remixes impart significant production changes to the tracks. Chuck Britz was a recording engineer working under Brian’s direction.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 10:13:56 AM
Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park.
Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways.
Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer. I appreciate the effort you all put into this set.

Yes, most average listeners will not care or even notice any difference if the mixes are generally true to the originals. Which means the target audience for remixes would be those that are sensitive to or paying attention to such things.

So IMO you can’t say “most people won’t care”- which I agree is true- but at the same time defend the remixes. If it doesn’t matter, then why remix them? Clearly the remixes are intended for those who do care.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 18, 2022, 10:25:42 AM
I can understand that feeling…but the original mixes are still available! I’m literally on Spotify as we type listening to the All Summer Long album in mono! If the new mix of Marcella was inserted into So Tough, then that’d be out of line. But it’s not! It’s one thing to not like the new mixes… I do for the most part (although I do prefer the original mono ) but the whole thing about Carl not being here to sign off….sorry , IMHO that is faulty logic. By that same logic, we need to remove every copyright extension release. No more performance of classical music, as Bach can’t sign off on it. Get rid of every Beatles reissue after Lennon died. Nobody could ever cover a song again.

Ok, so that sounds a bit extreme, but hopefully my point is clear. As long as it is clearly labeled a remix, there’s no issue. Now passing off a new mix as the original vintage deal, now that’s a different thing entirely


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 18, 2022, 10:26:07 AM


Or would you rather talk about music? It doesn't seem that way, but I hope that's why people visit these places. Throwing tantrums on 6 year old grudges and outbursts must be more appealing?



if that really is how you feel great. but you really should remove that latin phrase under your avatar post. goes against what you are preaching.

I'm not preaching anything, I'm just saying stop all the lies and tell the truth about what happened if you're going to keep hammering away at events from 2015-16, and if you don't know the truth, then don't say anything. A relatively easy thing to do, telling the truth.

I should change it to "nolite mendacium loqui", I need to make my years of AP Latin studies worthwhile.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 10:37:21 AM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.

Yeah there are some oddities for sure, such as the guitar track on Surfin Safari - one of my favorite earlier tracks - and there is a lot of digital distortion noticeable on that guitar track (though the vocals are mixed gorgeously). And yeah, I did notice abrupt hiss clips in one or two of the tracks. But thankfully these oddities are rare for me, and overall all the remixes sound fantastic to my ears, and given only 24 of 80 tracks are remixed, a couple of those tracks having oddities doesn't really effect my experience.

I think there are also massive differences in the mix depending on the way you listen to it. The difference between Dolby Atmos being on and off is huge (I prefer it being off). I mentioned audio codecs before and I think that is at play here (which is why there are differences in quality/sound between platforms). Also having any EQ on Spotify (and Apple Music) effects how the mix sounds. Also there is a difference in sound when listening to wired/analog vs Bluetooth. There are a lot of variables to consider in the digital age.

On another note, I see people are now complaining about Carl and Dennis' tracks being tinkered with (this is somehow sacrilege). Didn't Chuck Britz help Brian with mixing the early-mid-60s output of The Beach Boys? Is it sacrilege that he isn't here to give his token of approval on the mixes he helped Brian with? People are scraping the bottom of the barrel to trash this project.

Anywho, I'm off for a drive, gonna put the windows down and crank this new set. It's gonna be a good day :)

No.

Brian was the producer for most of  the ‘60s material. Carl was the primary producer for many of the ‘70s tracks. Many of the remixes impart significant production changes to the tracks. Chuck Britz was a recording engineer working under Brian’s direction.

I see what you mean in that regard. But I also just don't see why this is an issue. As Billy says, the originals are all there to listen to. People just seem to be nitpicking this stuff to death....if you don't like it simply put on the plethora of original versions that are available.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: RiC on June 18, 2022, 10:49:04 AM
If no one here's gonna say it, then I will. These remasters and remixes are dreadfully brittle. Most of them sound like they're on the verge of crumbling into a thousand pieces. Like they're being held together by Elmer's glue and rubber bands.

Baby Blue is possibly the worst offender. That compression. That hiss. "The definitive mix"? Holy tomatoes.

Why do the horns on Let Us Go On This Way sound like they were recorded on a flip phone from 2005?

God help you, Mark. And God help listeners with misophonia. I'd never recommend this set as an entry point to the Beach Boys.
I couldn't agree more. I am glad that a lot of people are liking this, same time being extremely worried of the future of these releases. I have been waiting the Holland box set like crazy, but if it's gonna sound like this, I'm out.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 10:58:50 AM
And sadly the lies continue over there. I really hate breaking in like this because I do have a lot of thoughts on the new mixes, but for God's sake just tell the truth and stop the lies about this place and things that happened 5-7 years ago, guys. Now it's Paul JB saying people were banned for expressing opinions against Brian Wilson or defending Mike Love.

That NEVER HAPPENED. Period.

Just odd for a forum that constantly brags about how welcoming and inclusive they are, and half the time you visit they are bashing people. I mean their own administrator was so cringe-inducingly rude to Howie. Their response to not only Howie but their subsequent panic attack about this forum just shows their true colors. I mean for Paul to state that Howie should have used "a little simple communication"...whaaa?? - it doesn't get much simpler than a chill podcast interview where Howie was merely talking about his history, his love for the music, and the background on this project. And y'all TORE him apart. One guy seemed to do a background check on Howie lol. It's just insane what happened there, and somehow it is Howie's fault for not using simpler communication. And then AGD states that it is "sad" that it seems to be too late for anyone to extend an olive branch - and then a few hours later he takes a crack at this forum....yeah, sounds like he's real torn apart about the divisions in the fandom. But it's that exact hypocrisy and double-standard that permeates that forum. And it's on full display right now.

We're not perfect over here, but we don't advertise to be. We're also not straight up lying about actions that took place 5-7 years ago. Again, I implore anyone to go back into the sandbox or other archives to see why people were banned (and frankly just the overall nasty posts that were made about Brian, his family, and the utterly ridiculous arguments used to defend Mike Love's crass comments about Brian).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: humanoidboogie on June 18, 2022, 11:13:38 AM
Maybe you could move the EH vs. SS discussion to its own thread? I want to read people’s thoughts on Sounds of Summer and not get involved in a lot of drama I neither care nor know anything about.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 11:19:09 AM
Maybe you could move the EH vs. SS discussion to its own thread? I want to read people’s thoughts on Sounds of Summer and not get involved in a lot of drama I neither care nor know anything about.

Yeah sorry about that. Since all this talk was somewhat related to the release it kinda made sense for it to be in this thread. But yeah, post-release I can see it being annoying for most people to read that drivel haha. Hopefully that's the end of it.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: sea of tunes on June 18, 2022, 11:24:53 AM
The highlight for me so far is Do You Like Worms, that was a surprise that I didn't expect, but the separation of the tracks really gives it a cool new listening experience.

I agree with this, it caught me off guard in a great way. It kind of reminded me of the 'fake stereo' from the Good Vibrations box set of the same track. Or, at least that's my memory of it.

But so much better and 'proper' stereo mix. I wouldn't mind hearing a fully remixed "2011 Smile" album in stereo. I think it might reveal some nuances hitherto unheard.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 11:53:02 AM
The highlight for me so far is Do You Like Worms, that was a surprise that I didn't expect, but the separation of the tracks really gives it a cool new listening experience.

I agree with this, it caught me off guard in a great way. It kind of reminded me of the 'fake stereo' from the Good Vibrations box set of the same track. Or, at least that's my memory of it.

But so much better and 'proper' stereo mix. I wouldn't mind hearing a fully remixed "2011 Smile" album in stereo. I think it might reveal some nuances hitherto unheard.

YES.

This new Worms mix really brought a lot of sonic color to the mix, which just doesn't exist in the mono (to my ears). I love my TSS set, but I wouldn't mind getting a remixed stereo version in the future.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: sea of tunes on June 18, 2022, 12:14:36 PM
The highlight for me so far is Do You Like Worms, that was a surprise that I didn't expect, but the separation of the tracks really gives it a cool new listening experience.

I agree with this, it caught me off guard in a great way. It kind of reminded me of the 'fake stereo' from the Good Vibrations box set of the same track. Or, at least that's my memory of it.

But so much better and 'proper' stereo mix. I wouldn't mind hearing a fully remixed "2011 Smile" album in stereo. I think it might reveal some nuances hitherto unheard.

YES.

This new Worms mix really brought a lot of sonic color to the mix, which just doesn't exist in the mono (to my ears). I love my TSS set, but I wouldn't mind getting a remixed stereo version in the future.

Same. I'm a mono purist but I don't mind remixes for fun and analytical listening.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 18, 2022, 12:20:56 PM
Maybe you could move the EH vs. SS discussion to its own thread? I want to read people’s thoughts on Sounds of Summer and not get involved in a lot of drama I neither care nor know anything about.

Yeah sorry about that. Since all this talk was somewhat related to the release it kinda made sense for it to be in this thread. But yeah, post-release I can see it being annoying for most people to read that drivel haha. Hopefully that's the end of it.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on June 18, 2022, 12:48:49 PM


So do you want to talk facts? We have those and would be happy to open the archives to show what these people did who were banned here. Not a single ban was done for criticizing Brian or defending Mike. Period. If someone has information to add to that, please let me, Billy, and Charles know because we know how and why the bans happened. 



OPEN THE ARCHIVES!!! or forever hold your peace.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 05:45:41 PM
OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.

Yeah there are some oddities for sure, such as the guitar track on Surfin Safari - one of my favorite earlier tracks - and there is a lot of digital distortion noticeable on that guitar track (though the vocals are mixed gorgeously). And yeah, I did notice abrupt hiss clips in one or two of the tracks. But thankfully these oddities are rare for me, and overall all the remixes sound fantastic to my ears, and given only 24 of 80 tracks are remixed, a couple of those tracks having oddities doesn't really effect my experience.

I think there are also massive differences in the mix depending on the way you listen to it. The difference between Dolby Atmos being on and off is huge (I prefer it being off). I mentioned audio codecs before and I think that is at play here (which is why there are differences in quality/sound between platforms). Also having any EQ on Spotify (and Apple Music) effects how the mix sounds. Also there is a difference in sound when listening to wired/analog vs Bluetooth. There are a lot of variables to consider in the digital age.

On another note, I see people are now complaining about Carl and Dennis' tracks being tinkered with (this is somehow sacrilege). Didn't Chuck Britz help Brian with mixing the early-mid-60s output of The Beach Boys? Is it sacrilege that he isn't here to give his token of approval on the mixes he helped Brian with? People are scraping the bottom of the barrel to trash this project.

Anywho, I'm off for a drive, gonna put the windows down and crank this new set. It's gonna be a good day :)

No.

Brian was the producer for most of  the ‘60s material. Carl was the primary producer for many of the ‘70s tracks. Many of the remixes impart significant production changes to the tracks. Chuck Britz was a recording engineer working under Brian’s direction.

I see what you mean in that regard. But I also just don't see why this is an issue. As Billy says, the originals are all there to listen to. People just seem to be nitpicking this stuff to death....if you don't like it simply put on the plethora of original versions that are available.

Because IMO it’s not about *me* or even the people who don’t like it. It’s not about not liking it. It’s about how the Beach Boys artistry is being presented to the masses. And I understand Brian, Mike, and Al are on board and that’s cool. And they are representing Carl & Dennis. And even then, people can disagree with the decisions made by the group. Certainly they have made some curious decisions over the years.

I mean, what if this entire set was presented in duophonic? Would everyone here still say, “hey enjoy this duophonic release, and if you don’t like it there are always the originals!”.

Or what if the entire set were presented with vocals on one channel and the track on the other?

I’m actually refraining from commenting too much on the tracks themselves, out of respect for those who worked in the set. But it’s clear that a lot of people have legit concerns about these versions. And I think dismissing the concerns as ungrateful complaints is disengenuois.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
I can understand that feeling…but the original mixes are still available! I’m literally on Spotify as we type listening to the All Summer Long album in mono! If the new mix of Marcella was inserted into So Tough, then that’d be out of line. But it’s not! It’s one thing to not like the new mixes… I do for the most part (although I do prefer the original mono ) but the whole thing about Carl not being here to sign off….sorry , IMHO that is faulty logic. By that same logic, we need to remove every copyright extension release. No more performance of classical music, as Bach can’t sign off on it. Get rid of every Beatles reissue after Lennon died. Nobody could ever cover a song again.

Ok, so that sounds a bit extreme, but hopefully my point is clear. As long as it is clearly labeled a remix, there’s no issue. Now passing off a new mix as the original vintage deal, now that’s a different thing entirely

Yeh but this kind of thing is like “ha wow I wish The Beach Boys weren’t on Full House.” Some will say, well just don’t watch it. But the gripe is not about the person who doesn’t like The Beach Boys on Full House. It’s about a greater concern for the way the group is presented.

It’s not about not doing anything that Carl can’t sign off on. To me, I’m curious as to why there was any kind of desire to endlessly remix the tracks like this in the first place, and to include them in place of the original (IMO tasteful, artful, and definitive) versions on a high profile release such as this.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Wirestone on June 18, 2022, 06:45:38 PM
Folks have been unhappy with Mark’s mixing decisions since at least the 2013 big boxed set and possibly before. This is the way they’ve gone, and this is the sound they’ve chosen. If you don’t like it, fine, but none of this counts as a new development or somehow unexpected. For that matter, stereo remixes have been used as an inducement for fans to buy compilations since at least the 2009 release of Summer Love Songs. Again, you may not like it, but it’s entirely in keeping with past practices.

Anyway, I listened to all 80 tracks on a lengthy car trip today. It sounds fabulous to me. The remixes seem to fall into three groups, all with slightly different functions. The first are remixes of the early material, basically fixing the incredibly crude original stereo separation. The second are highlighting extra parts of especially complex 70s arrangements like Marcella. Finally, you have a couple of experimental takes on material like God Please Let Us Go On that hasn’t really been examined since release. Everything in the first batch sounded great to me. The second batch was largely fascinating, although as noted the hiss in Baby Blue is really something. The third batch is fun and perhaps shouldn’t be taken overly seriously.

This is art, yes, but it’s also popular entertainment. Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience. This new set attempts to package the band’s best together in consistent sound and presentation. I dig it and appreciate the effort.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 06:48:28 PM
I forget which comp it is, I think it’s the Good Vibrations boxset, but I remember hearing some weird artifacts on DYLW, and I remember the weird far right far left tracks on the final disc (where you could pan your personal stereo to hear just vocals or just the instrumental - it was by design but it was odd nonetheless). There were some other oddities that I forget about now but they were there.

I wonder how many casual fans/prospective fans completely walked away from wanting to hear the beach boys because of those oddities. Probably (just based on simple logic) zero.

What I find funny is that from the same crowd that goes into panic mode when the word “legacy” comes from up (“it is utterly impossible for the legacy to be ruined!!!!!”) is now claiming that a few tracks from an 80 track set are going to supposedly completely destabilize the way people view the beach boys.

There are a few tracks from the new comp I don’t care for. But I feel that way about probably every set. It doesn’t mean I go into full meltdown mode and say “God help you” to those who mixed the set.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 06:50:27 PM
I dig it and appreciate the effort.

Great post Wirestone, and I completely agree.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 06:53:48 PM
Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience.

That simply isn’t true. Those “old mono mixes” are what created the Beach Boys’ success, and allowed it to endure, for  the bulk of their career. Brian’s mono mixes are so superior … they hit harder, they pop and punch, and they are delicate and compelling.

It’s odd to me that you seem to be trash talking Brian’s OG mixes with the argument that newer mixes are more … commercial?

As I’ve noted a few times here in the past, in the mono era, there was no such thing as “the mix” as a stand-alone thing like we know it today. The track was built along the way, and each element was moving toward the “dubdown”, or the ultimate record.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 07:17:02 PM
Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience.

That simply isn’t true. Those “old mono mixes” are what created the Beach Boys’ success, and allowed it to endure, for  the bulk of their career. Brian’s mono mixes are so superior … they hit harder, they pop and punch, and they are delicate and compelling.

It’s odd to me that you seem to be trash talking Brian’s OG mixes with the argument that newer mixes are more … commercial?

As I’ve noted a few times here in the past, in the mono era, there was no such thing as “the mix” as a stand-alone thing like we know it today. The track was built along the way, and each element was moving toward the “dubdown”, or the ultimate record.

“Trash talking”, by calling them “old” (which they are), and in this day and age mono isn’t going to be a hit with the widest possible audience here in 2022 (gee big surprise!). Brian specifically mixed the tracks to sound amazing for the AM radio mono speakers of his time.

Just the fact you have to outlandishly claim someone is “trash talking” because they’re simply stating facts just shows how ”strong” your argument is.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 18, 2022, 07:53:09 PM
I can understand that feeling…but the original mixes are still available! I’m literally on Spotify as we type listening to the All Summer Long album in mono! If the new mix of Marcella was inserted into So Tough, then that’d be out of line. But it’s not! It’s one thing to not like the new mixes… I do for the most part (although I do prefer the original mono ) but the whole thing about Carl not being here to sign off….sorry , IMHO that is faulty logic. By that same logic, we need to remove every copyright extension release. No more performance of classical music, as Bach can’t sign off on it. Get rid of every Beatles reissue after Lennon died. Nobody could ever cover a song again.

Ok, so that sounds a bit extreme, but hopefully my point is clear. As long as it is clearly labeled a remix, there’s no issue. Now passing off a new mix as the original vintage deal, now that’s a different thing entirely

Yeh but this kind of thing is like “ha wow I wish The Beach Boys weren’t on Full House.” Some will say, well just don’t watch it. But the gripe is not about the person who doesn’t like The Beach Boys on Full House. It’s about a greater concern for the way the group is presented.

It’s not about not doing anything that Carl can’t sign off on. To me, I’m curious as to why there was any kind of desire to endlessly remix the tracks like this in the first place, and to include them in place of the original (IMO tasteful, artful, and definitive) versions on a high profile release such as this.

Good point about Full House… but that was also while the band was an active functioning entity, but barely hanging on by a thread. At this point, in 2022 they’re pretty much set. Besides, they’re clearly labeled as remixes. Pretty much the first instinct for someone hearing a remix of something they’re not familiar with is to compare to the original , especially now that it’s easy to do so.

As for the other point… remember for the longest time we got endless repackaging of the same old songs over and over . Redundant releases were a plague. We kind of have an embarrassment of riches these days


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 07:57:33 PM
Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 08:38:39 PM
Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience.

That simply isn’t true. Those “old mono mixes” are what created the Beach Boys’ success, and allowed it to endure, for  the bulk of their career. Brian’s mono mixes are so superior … they hit harder, they pop and punch, and they are delicate and compelling.

It’s odd to me that you seem to be trash talking Brian’s OG mixes with the argument that newer mixes are more … commercial?

As I’ve noted a few times here in the past, in the mono era, there was no such thing as “the mix” as a stand-alone thing like we know it today. The track was built along the way, and each element was moving toward the “dubdown”, or the ultimate record.

“Trash talking”, by calling them “old” (which they are), and in this day and age mono isn’t going to be a hit with the widest possible audience here in 2022 (gee big surprise!). Brian specifically mixed the tracks to sound amazing for the AM radio mono speakers of his time.

Just the fact you have to outlandishly claim someone is “trash talking” because they’re simply stating facts just shows how ”strong” your argument is.

“Old” mono mixes. “Crude” stereo separation. “Overly dense mixes”. “Less appealing”. “Overly dense” is a jab dude. And certainly not a “fact” as you say LOL. Calling relevant musical works “old” is a jab. When people are listening to Surfin Safari or I Get Around this summer, they are part of the moment whether OG mono or AI extractions.

That is trash talking the OG records. Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

It is what it is, but it’s odd to me we are at a point as fans where people are trashing the original productions/recordings, and defending reinventions of them with the argument they are more commercial? What the heck, you know? Bizarre.

Aside from that, I absolutely disagree that mono is not where it’s at. Mono is way hipper than stereo. Mono BB vinyl sells for higher prices at this point. It’s a selling point. Hang out in any record store. Sundazed and Rhino are well aware of this. Analog mixes and analog mastering is also a selling point.

There are plenty of potential ways to go with the back catalog. This is one of them but not the only one.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 18, 2022, 08:50:02 PM
Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Sure it would fly. Earbuds and iPhone speakers like mono mixes just fine if not more.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 18, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
I would love it if everything was mixed to mono under Brian's strict supervision.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 18, 2022, 09:07:26 PM
“Old mono mixes” yes, something that was made 50+ years ago isn’t young.

“Crude stereo separation”… have you heard some of the plethora different versions of any of those early beach boys songs in stereo? Where the lead or BG vocals are panned hard right and the instrumentals hard left, I would call that crude in an age of 3D immersive stereo. Also Brian is literally deaf in one ear making it impossible for him to make a proper stereo version. Even Brian himself has said it sucks he can’t hear in stereo. So why anyone would even think of those early stereo mixes as pure gold is ridiculous to me…

“Overall dense mixes” see above.

“Less appealing” - I stand by the idea that mono mixes made specifically for AM mono radio sets aren’t that appealing in an era where Dolby surround, immersive headphones, hell the most popular Bluetooth headphones currently support this technology, are all the rage. So yes, I doubt the youngins today are flocking to the Apple store and buying their AirPods in complete elation to hear mono mixes of Beach Boys songs from 1965. I also feel the same about many of the old stereo mixes where the panning just isn’t made for the modern stereo setup (5.1, Atmos, etc).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Wirestone on June 18, 2022, 09:37:08 PM
Has no one noticed that the Beatles are also remixing their records? Even classics like Abbey Road that are about as perfectly mixed as makes no difference? (Many Beatles fans loathe them, too.) I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. But clearly there’s some thought in the industry that remastering isn’t enough — classic bands need to have their classic tracks mixed anew and with an ear toward current tastes.

As stated repeatedly on this thread, these mixes are not replacing those on the classic albums, which are widely available and simple to find. They are clearly labeled and dated alternates. If we want this music to live, it can’t sit on a shelf. It has to live in the world of earbuds and streaming, of loudness wars and Bluetooth, of YouTube clips and Spotify playlists.

And my God I’d rather Mark and Howie and Alan do this than Mike Love and LoCash…


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: RiC on June 19, 2022, 01:16:47 AM
Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Sure it would fly. Earbuds and iPhone speakers like mono mixes just fine if not more.
Might be slightly off-topic, but this is a great point I feel a lot of people, not just listeners but sound engineers and producers as well are forgetting a lot of times. The "youngsters" don't listen to music with a HI-FI stereo or 5.1 system. They, me included for 90 % times, listen to sounds out of their phone speaker or a bluetooth speaker, which basicly is almost equivalent to an old AM or FM radio. Earbuds, same thing, stereo won't make a difference. Mostly people hear it in MONO anyway, even if they don't realize that.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on June 19, 2022, 02:48:47 AM
Lost amidst the debate is that this is a hits album geared towards casual fans with new remixes to draw in diehards and completists who have to have everything. The newbies are not going to know or care that the new mixes are new. Oddly enough, for me the mono and vintage stereo mixes on this new collection stick out like a sore thumb which isn’t something I could say about the original Sounds Of Summer release.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 19, 2022, 03:07:41 AM
Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Sure it would fly. Earbuds and iPhone speakers like mono mixes just fine if not more.
Might be slightly off-topic, but this is a great point I feel a lot of people, not just listeners but sound engineers and producers as well are forgetting a lot of times. The "youngsters" don't listen to music with a HI-FI stereo or 5.1 system. They, me included for 90 % times, listen to sounds out of their phone speaker or a bluetooth speaker, which basicly is almost equivalent to an old AM or FM radio. Earbuds, same thing, stereo won't make a difference. Mostly people hear it in MONO anyway, even if they don't realize that.

I don’t personally know the statistics about kids usage of Bluetooth/phone speakers vs headphones, but I’d imagine a lot of kids riding a bus to school, riding in the car with their parents on road trips, walking to school, etc, are listening on headphones. Yes I imagine most, if not all, use their iPhone or Bluetooth speakers as well depending on the situation. Either way, stereo matters for modern listeners, otherwise studios wouldn’t waste their time mixing tracks in stereo/Atmos these days.

Secondly, how does stereo not make a difference with earbuds? They are literally a means to hear left/right. And all of Apple’s (who has almost a 50% share of the headphone market in the US) latest headphone releases support Dolby Atmos and head tracking for an immersive stereo experience. I’m pretty sure nearly every top-40 song these days is mixed for this technology. You don’t need a hi-fi or 5.1 system to listen to music in immersive stereo these days.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 19, 2022, 03:17:23 AM
Has no one noticed that the Beatles are also remixing their records? Even classics like Abbey Road that are about as perfectly mixed as makes no difference? (Many Beatles fans loathe them, too.) I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. But clearly there’s some thought in the industry that remastering isn’t enough — classic bands need to have their classic tracks mixed anew and with an ear toward current tastes.

As stated repeatedly on this thread, these mixes are not replacing those on the classic albums, which are widely available and simple to find. They are clearly labeled and dated alternates. If we want this music to live, it can’t sit on a shelf. It has to live in the world of earbuds and streaming, of loudness wars and Bluetooth, of YouTube clips and Spotify playlists.

And my God I’d rather Mark and Howie and Alan do this than Mike Love and LoCash…

Exactly. Sonic technology/listening is always evolving, hence no modern studio mixes in mono anymore. I’m just glad the people in charge of The Beach Boys music realize this as well, otherwise we wouldn’t have the absolutely amazing stereo mix of Pet Sounds that we have today.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 19, 2022, 08:29:45 AM
Just arrived today. Really impressed with packaging.

Great liner notes by Howie, pictures are fantastic. What a beautiful pic of Carl and Dennis ❤️


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 20, 2022, 10:05:09 AM
“Old” mono mixes. “Crude” stereo separation. “Overly dense mixes”. “Less appealing”. “Overly dense” is a jab dude. And certainly not a “fact” as you say LOL. Calling relevant musical works “old” is a jab. When people are listening to Surfin Safari or I Get Around this summer, they are part of the moment whether OG mono or AI extractions.

That is trash talking the OG records. Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

It is what it is, but it’s odd to me we are at a point as fans where people are trashing the original productions/recordings, and defending reinventions of them with the argument they are more commercial? What the heck, you know? Bizarre.

Aside from that, I absolutely disagree that mono is not where it’s at. Mono is way hipper than stereo. Mono BB vinyl sells for higher prices at this point. It’s a selling point. Hang out in any record store. Sundazed and Rhino are well aware of this. Analog mixes and analog mastering is also a selling point.

There are plenty of potential ways to go with the back catalog. This is one of them but not the only one.

This isn't an either/or situation. The original mixes are all out there, and they are all still prevalent.

This isn't even an either/or situation anymore as far as what gets released. There was a period of time decades ago when it was a legit complaint that re-packagings were happening *instead* of archival releases and other interesting *new* product. That is no longer the case. The same team putting together great archival releases is also now able to put their efforts into re-issues and compilations, which *are going to happen regardless*. Isn't it the best case scenario to have those archival releases of previously unreleased material, and then also have that same team putting thought and effort into the best way to present a 60th anniversary hits comp that's inevitably going to come out and easily could have just been like the three 90s "Greatest Hits" CDs tossed into one compilation?

Your beef seems to be that the old mixes (yes, they are "old"; meaning they are from many many years ago; they came previously) are being "disrespected", which I think is ridiculous to tell to a group of HARDCORE Beach Boys fans. Most of us own the original mixes many times over, and few of us are saying we only ever pull out latter-day stereo remixes. Not only do we own those original mixes, they have been presented *multiple* times on physical media in relatively recent years. Capitol did a bunch of mono/stereo two-fers in 2012, Audio Fidelity did CD/SACD hybrids of much of the catalog. Most of the post-60s material still *hasn't* even been remixed, so it's mostly original mixes out there to this day exclusively.

If we want to get into the nitty gritty on judging old mixes, I don't think pointing out the downsides to *some* of them is any form of disrespect. To slavishly default to or always defer to the *first* mix of everything is, in my opinion, too narrow and insular. The nature of how some of the stuff was recorded and mixed *absolutely* buries a bunch of elements of some of those tracks. The '96 Pet Sounds stereo remix was a revelation. Tons more could be heard. It was a great *alternate/new* way to hear the album. And frankly, I usually *do* default to the stereo mix on that particular one. I love the mono mixes too. I like listening to those to get the original context for how they sounded when they came out, and I like to hear the sometimes dry relative sound of those mixes. And some are still the go-to. But not all. And liking a remix isn't a denigration of the original, or anybody who worked on it. *Especially* when the originals are by and large still there as well.

This isn't a Star Wars situation where the special effects and model work of the people who originally worked on those films has literally been erased, replaced, and the originals made no longer (officially) available.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 20, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: DonnyL on June 20, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
“Old” mono mixes. “Crude” stereo separation. “Overly dense mixes”. “Less appealing”. “Overly dense” is a jab dude. And certainly not a “fact” as you say LOL. Calling relevant musical works “old” is a jab. When people are listening to Surfin Safari or I Get Around this summer, they are part of the moment whether OG mono or AI extractions.

That is trash talking the OG records. Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

It is what it is, but it’s odd to me we are at a point as fans where people are trashing the original productions/recordings, and defending reinventions of them with the argument they are more commercial? What the heck, you know? Bizarre.

Aside from that, I absolutely disagree that mono is not where it’s at. Mono is way hipper than stereo. Mono BB vinyl sells for higher prices at this point. It’s a selling point. Hang out in any record store. Sundazed and Rhino are well aware of this. Analog mixes and analog mastering is also a selling point.

There are plenty of potential ways to go with the back catalog. This is one of them but not the only one.

This isn't an either/or situation. The original mixes are all out there, and they are all still prevalent.

This isn't even an either/or situation anymore as far as what gets released. There was a period of time decades ago when it was a legit complaint that re-packagings were happening *instead* of archival releases and other interesting *new* product. That is no longer the case. The same team putting together great archival releases is also now able to put their efforts into re-issues and compilations, which *are going to happen regardless*. Isn't it the best case scenario to have those archival releases of previously unreleased material, and then also have that same team putting thought and effort into the best way to present a 60th anniversary hits comp that's inevitably going to come out and easily could have just been like the three 90s "Greatest Hits" CDs tossed into one compilation?

Your beef seems to be that the old mixes (yes, they are "old"; meaning they are from many many years ago; they came previously) are being "disrespected", which I think is ridiculous to tell to a group of HARDCORE Beach Boys fans. Most of us own the original mixes many times over, and few of us are saying we only ever pull out latter-day stereo remixes. Not only do we own those original mixes, they have been presented *multiple* times on physical media in relatively recent years. Capitol did a bunch of mono/stereo two-fers in 2012, Audio Fidelity did CD/SACD hybrids of much of the catalog. Most of the post-60s material still *hasn't* even been remixed, so it's mostly original mixes out there to this day exclusively.

If we want to get into the nitty gritty on judging old mixes, I don't think pointing out the downsides to *some* of them is any form of disrespect. To slavishly default to or always defer to the *first* mix of everything is, in my opinion, too narrow and insular. The nature of how some of the stuff was recorded and mixed *absolutely* buries a bunch of elements of some of those tracks. The '96 Pet Sounds stereo remix was a revelation. Tons more could be heard. It was a great *alternate/new* way to hear the album. And frankly, I usually *do* default to the stereo mix on that particular one. I love the mono mixes too. I like listening to those to get the original context for how they sounded when they came out, and I like to hear the sometimes dry relative sound of those mixes. And some are still the go-go. But not all. And liking a remix isn't a denigration of the original, or anybody who worked on it. *Especially* when the originals are by and large still there as well.

This isn't a Star Wars situation where the special effects and model work of the people who originally worked on those films has literally been erased, replaced, and the originals made no longer (officially) available.


Yes, saying “old overly dense mixes” while defending remixes is $hit talking the originals. Not sure how that’s is controversial or debatable.

And this tired argument of “the old mixes are now going away, not you have both!” misses my point, which I don’t care to make again as I’ve already made it above.

So- if someone added a bonus track of “Summer in Paradise” to the end of a Pet Sounds reissue and lots of people loved it, would you say “well if you don’t like hearing ‘Summer in Paradise’, you can just skip it. It’s not like the original track listing is going away!”?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 20, 2022, 12:38:47 PM
Yes, saying “old overly dense mixes” while defending remixes is $hit talking the originals. Not sure how that’s is controversial or debatable.

And this tired argument of “the old mixes are now going away, not you have both!” misses my point, which I don’t care to make again as I’ve already made it above.

So- if someone added a bonus track of “Summer in Paradise” to the end of a Pet Sounds reissue and lots of people loved it, would you say “well if you don’t like hearing ‘Summer in Paradise’, you can just skip it. It’s not like the original track listing is going away!”?

"Old, overly dense mixes" is certainly a critical point of view. Is it "s**t talking?" I think that's kind of a preposterous overreaction considering that I don't think anybody was asserting *all* or even *most* of the vintage mixes are bad or "too dense." I think it's unavoidable that some generalizations have to be made when talking about the overall ethos of remixing. Saying "sometimes a fresh remix can liberate a song from old, muddier mix" is not like just s**tting on all vintage mixes.

Again, more than any place else I can think of, this board is full of people who hold the vintage stuff in very high esteem. I've been on this board for 17 or whatever years, and I don't recall much of any *s**t talking" of original mixes.

The "Summer in Paradise" example is not anything close to a fair comparison to remixes being placed on a compilation reissue/expansion.

Unless one is arguing the original sanctity/integrity of the 2003 initial release of "Sounds of Summer", then there's nothing else this new SOS set is replacing or even standing as an alternate version of. It's a new item, with new remixes.

If an SIP track was put on a "Pet Sounds" CD, then someone, I guess, might get the impression someone is trying to imply the song is part of the album or part of those sessions somehow. How is that analogous to this new SOS set? It's a compilation spanning around 30 years of music, and jumps from era to era. The only real criteria a track needs to be on the set is that it's Beach Boys (and even then I wouldn't bust a blood vessel if they licensed "Almost Summer" or a solo track here or there or whatever).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 20, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Yeh but this kind of thing is like “ha wow I wish The Beach Boys weren’t on Full House.” Some will say, well just don’t watch it. But the gripe is not about the person who doesn’t like The Beach Boys on Full House. It’s about a greater concern for the way the group is presented.

It’s not about not doing anything that Carl can’t sign off on. To me, I’m curious as to why there was any kind of desire to endlessly remix the tracks like this in the first place, and to include them in place of the original (IMO tasteful, artful, and definitive) versions on a high profile release such as this.

What *new* fan is complaining about this new SOS set? The only complaints I see are from a hand full of hardcore fans who prefer the original mixes. How is this SOS set presentation harming the band and how it comes across to the "masses" or "new fans?"

With the "Full House" situation, I can point easily to it being a cheesy, s**tty sitcom where the band has ceased becoming a musical group being taken seriously and is just a bit novelty/joke.

I can't say anything similar when it comes to remixes of old tracks, even ones *I* don't like. It's just plain not nearly as "injurious" to the band's legacy or career. The audiophile types who pore over this stuff already love it enough (at least, I'll just assume they do) to pore over it in the first place. They're not going anywhere. The question then becomes do fresh remixes bring in more fans/new blood/attention/buzz/clout/cool than they turn away. I think that's an easy "yes." I don't think new, hipster fans streaming this or buying vinyl will poo-poo these new remixes, with *nothing* and *no context* to compare them to, to the point where they'll decide *not* be get into the music.

I don't think, certainly among any currently mainstream in print versions, there is a mix of a Beach Boys song out there that would turn off someone who would be predisposed to liking the music/song. I don't think this theoretical 20-year-old is going to hear "Help Me Rhonda" on streaming and say "hrrmmmm, I dunno, the panning of the stereo overdubs don't sound quite right, I'm not sure if I'm down with digital extractions..." and just walk away from being a fan. I don't think it works like that at all. I don't think any of us can like paint every possible scenario for how people get into the music, but among the myriad I can think, many, many more of those theoretical/imaginary scenarios involve someone *getting into* the music from this compilation, not being turned off by it.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 20, 2022, 01:02:28 PM
I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.

My thing is that there are other artists/catalogs/films, etc. where there are tons of items/versions that are just completely unavailable. I again refer to the "Star Wars" example (and even that is becoming more moot as time goes by and finding high quality "original" versions of those old films is pretty easy if you look), where I have no problem if someone *gets into* those films by seeing the futzed-with versions with new CGI and whatnot, but it is problematic that they can't then also go back, if they become a true/big/hardcore fan, and watch the *original* versions.

With the BB catalog, with some random exceptions, you can find most original mono and stereo mixes. Anybody who becomes a big enough fan to want to find that stuff can find it, usually with plenty of options in terms of format, resolution, etc.

It's the wild west out there on streaming services as far as mixes/versions. I'm surprised places like Spotify are as clean as they are in terms of the BB catalog, where most stuff shockingly actually *is* marked as mono or stereo or remix, and they've usually gone out of their way to mark the year of the remix as well.

Again, I like some remixes more than others. I've criticized them sometimes in the past. I think the PS stereo mix is great, one of the best. I said way back in 2007 or whenever that "Warmth of the Sun" comp came out that some of the remixes of stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder" were too wet/too much echo/reverb. But I can't think of a remix that would turn off a new fan from liking a SONG/RECORDING. And I think a stronger case can be made that it would net additional new/young fans who want something a bit more punchy or opened-up in terms of mix (again, we have to speak in generalities about remixes; they don't all serve the same purpose or are made with the same exact ethos, as Wirestone discussed previously).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 20, 2022, 01:04:49 PM
Remixes, alternate versions and such have been going on compilations for decades. It used to be that you wouldn’t know how many tracks on a compilation would be altered until you’d already purchased it or read a review) Madonna’s 1990 compilation release was pretty much all remixes and alternate mixes (and weren’t even labeled as such , minus a vague “mastered in Q-Sound” label) . Those mixes became what would be played on the radio for about a decade or so; these days they’re pretty much forgotten*. A year prior, Robert Palmer did the same thing. Likewise, the fact that a majority were different versions wasn’t mentioned anywhere except in the liners.

Be glad things are clearly labeled these days (although the occasional mislabel does happen , at least your warned of its going to be different from the original)!


*The version of Vogue on that comp was the one that became a hit, but the original mix on the Dick Tracy soundtrack is the only one that gets played on Sirius, for example.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 20, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.

My thing is that there are other artists/catalogs/films, etc. where there are tons of items/versions that are just completely unavailable. I again refer to the "Star Wars" example (and even that is becoming more moot as time goes by and finding high quality "original" versions of those old films is pretty easy if you look), where I have no problem if someone *gets into* those films by seeing the futzed-with versions with new CGI and whatnot, but it is problematic that they can't then also go back, if they become a true/big/hardcore fan, and watch the *original* versions.

With the BB catalog, with some random exceptions, you can find most original mono and stereo mixes. Anybody who becomes a big enough fan to want to find that stuff can find it, usually with plenty of options in terms of format, resolution, etc.

It's the wild west out there on streaming services as far as mixes/versions. I'm surprised places like Spotify are as clean as they are in terms of the BB catalog, where most stuff shockingly actually *is* marked as mono or stereo or remix, and they've usually gone out of their way to mark the year of the remix as well.

Again, I like some remixes more than others. I've criticized them sometimes in the past. I think the PS stereo mix is great, one of the best. I said way back in 2007 or whenever that "Warmth of the Sun" comp came out that some of the remixes of stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder" were too wet/too much echo/reverb. But I can't think of a remix that would turn off a new fan from liking a SONG/RECORDING. And I think a stronger case can be made that it would net additional new/young fans who want something a bit more punchy or opened-up in terms of mix (again, we have to speak in generalities about remixes; they don't all serve the same purpose or are made with the same exact ethos, as Wirestone discussed previously).

Also, on Spotify at least, the mono and stereo versions are on the same album; it’s pretty easy to make a playlist of the version of the album you want too so if you wanted a hybrid of different mixes to make your “ideal” version, you can )


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 20, 2022, 01:25:34 PM
Let us also not forget that the band and the people working on these remixes over the years *do* care (the band members to varying degrees at varying points of course), and their attention to these things has been noted.

For instance, when presented with the PS stereo remix, it was reported back then that Carl (and possibly others) took issue with the missing bits that couldn't be included (e.g. Mike's WIBN bridge vocal, the double tracked vocals; the things that Brian had overdubbed during mixing). Presumably the reasoning was explained and obviously the PS set eventually came out.

That PS stereo mix had a particular ethos behind it.

These SOS remixes have another ethos; different but also valid.

I guess what I'm saying is that these guys putting the set together know the drums on "Marcella" sound different. That's the point. Obviously.

Just like they knew everybody would notice it was Brian singing the bridge on WIBN back in 1996/97.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 20, 2022, 01:28:50 PM
Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

The bg vocals on the original stereo 'Don't Worry Baby' are panned far right, the lead vocal is panned far left. I do not see how such a mix would be sonically preferable in an age where headphones with good stereo quality are a norm in society, 5.1 systems are more and more common in homes, and basically your average home stereo is a bit more complex than it was in 1964. My critique of the mix is not me sh*tting on Chuck Britz, it is me just stating the obvious. Things were mixed differently back then for the technology of their time.

Nowadays we have headphones that can simulate 5.1 3D surround. And as I said in a previous post, such technology is dominating the headphone market right now (and will continue to do so).

The Beatles' Abbey Road was remixed and it hit #3 on the billboard charts. That is one of many successful examples of taking a vintage album and remixing it. Thus I think the industry realizes the money-making potential with remixing songs from classic artists. If an artist makes more money there is more of a chance of future releases (which is clearly what the goal is for The Beach Boys). I highly doubt the Beatles original mono/stereo work will be forgotten to the winds of time thanks to the new remixes. Instead, it's just a way to market old music (not meaning to offend when I call it "old", it is just a fact) to a new generation. It's not meant to replace. It is meant to compliment. It is meant to draw in new fans who are used to modern songs being very complex in the mix. It's the same way with The Beach Boys.

Anyways, this is just proving my point about the nitpicking. If it's not the treble making these tracks supposedly completely unlistenable it is the new mixes that are sacrilege to the memory of Carl and Dennis, if it's not Howie being "brash" and "arrogant" it is that the original mono and stereo should be the only way these tracks are presented to the public. Next we're gonna hear whining about how the original SoS album cover was photoshopped to hell and how it's tarnishing the history of the discography.

It's so tiresome to read all the nitpicking negativity. It is why I've become such a pessimistic prick on this forum. Brian records anything genuine and it's always torn apart by "fans". Mark and Alan create a cool new remix that shows us more of what's in the mix and they're flayed alive. Howie does a podcast interview and he's still be ripped apart on EH.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 20, 2022, 02:26:33 PM
Also want to clarify when I say "sonically preferable" - I personally prefer mono in many circumstances. I prefer some remixes over originals. I prefer some original stereo over the rest. But it doesn't matter if I like it for it's artistic merit or if it is sonically better (subjectively, to my ears). What matters is the people who are being marketed to. And I'm not referring to the 20 year olds on forums (or YouTube comment sections) who 100% prefer the original mono mixes. I'm talking about the 20 year olds who aren't fans yet.

Those fans may not know the history behind the old mixes. They may not understand the concept of mono. They may even prefer the mono sound. But those in charge of these releases (be they those on the committee putting these sets together or the record execs green-lighting the project) know that currently remixes are selling (see the Beatles mixes that hit the billboard charts). Thus, this is about what is potentially sonically preferable to those 20 year olds that this is being marketed towards.

It is also for those of us willing to explore something new, for the sake of hearing something a little differently than we're used to...Us fans who probably don't want to buy new sets with the same remasters for the umpteenth time, but want to be surprised by something new found in the mix.

And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Awesoman on June 21, 2022, 05:13:31 AM
Apologies if this has already been covered but has anyone picked up the vinyl version of this compilation?  How does it sound compared to the CD and streaming/digital flavors?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Joel Goldenberg on June 21, 2022, 09:33:55 AM
Nowadays we have headphones that can simulate 5.1 3D surround. And as I said in a previous post, such technology is dominating the headphone market right now (and will continue to do so).
I'm waiting for affordable headphones that replicate the sound of a home theater space the way Virtual Reality replicates a large visual space. In the meantime, can Beach Boys songs get a binaural mix to produce a nice surround effect in headphones?


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 21, 2022, 09:52:02 AM
Listened to this on a shitty iPhone speaker, Howie, Mark, and Alan did a great job in mastering this!


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on June 21, 2022, 11:28:42 AM
Quote
And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.
exactly. That’s why it pissed me off when I read about a boycott from a idiot who kept trolling Howie on Facebook, and my good buddy/bandmate Jay got lambasted over there for pointing this same thing out. I mean, sh*t, don’t buy it but let those of us who want to hear previously unreleased stuff get it.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 21, 2022, 07:19:41 PM
Really wish "Still Crusin" or "Somewhere near Japan" made the cut for this album.

A guy can dream.



Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 22, 2022, 07:35:30 AM
Really wish "Still Crusin" or "Somewhere near Japan" made the cut for this album.

A guy can dream.


If or when they ever rework the material from that album, it desperately needs a remix. Especially "Still Cruisin'", which sounds really thin and slight. Some of that's unavoidable with the s**tty electronic drums and whatnot, but I think a remix on that material could help quite a bit.

I'm not troubled the material isn't on "Sounds of Summer"; I wouldn't have minded certainly. But I'd like to think that archival program could evolve to the point where they could re-tackle the "Still Cruisin'" album, remove the oldies, add era-appropriate tracks to fill it out, and give the thing a nice remix, and be able to do a project like that without it being either an ignored curio nor a huge marketing project either.

I believe there are outtakes from that era that might be better than much of what made it onto the album. Let's remember that Al's "Don't Fight the Sea" from his "Postcards" album comes mostly from a "Still Cruisin'"-era recording.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Mooger Fooger on June 24, 2022, 05:19:51 AM
OK I picked up the 3 CD set, and I am happy to finally hear the correct mixes of the tracks.

However, I will argue that I should -not- have to buy a set if I already pay money for streaming services in order to hear what is promised in the album's track list.

While I am a fan of the band's music, when I pay for services I am a customer not a spiritual confidant who is required to see the bigger picture. If a set promises special mixes of tracks, and those are absent from the set I am streaming, that is a mistake that MUST be rectified. That has soured my enjoyment of the set, and I feel I have been taken advantage of.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: HeyJude on June 24, 2022, 06:48:40 AM
OK I picked up the 3 CD set, and I am happy to finally hear the correct mixes of the tracks.

However, I will argue that I should -not- have to buy a set if I already pay money for streaming services in order to hear what is promised in the album's track list.

While I am a fan of the band's music, when I pay for services I am a customer not a spiritual confidant who is required to see the bigger picture. If a set promises special mixes of tracks, and those are absent from the set I am streaming, that is a mistake that MUST be rectified. That has soured my enjoyment of the set, and I feel I have been taken advantage of.


You gotta talk to the streaming service. There are probably few folks who fully know all of ins and outs of how digital music is provided to these streaming services from distributors, but considering that other services like Spotify seemed to get this stuff out without a hitch (and properly labeled as well), I'd say your streaming service (I believe you mentioned it was Amazon?) is the one who is futzing things up.

I'd also say, based on my experience, Amazon is not really highly regarded for their audio or video streaming services (either the stuff that comes with Prime, or the stuff that requires additional subscription payment such as Amazon Music). Most folks I've run into, and myself as well, seem to have Amazon Prime to get the good shipping times/deals, and whatever audio or video comes along with that is just an little extra. If you're using a music streaming service as your primary method of listening to music, I've heard far better things about Spotify. Even YouTube Music seems to have better labeling and interface. I don't use any streaming services as my primary method of listening, but I've used them all at one point or another.


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: rab2591 on June 24, 2022, 07:41:11 AM
Agreed about Amazon. Apple Music is usually my go-to. And it's basically just because I can easily upload any albums that aren't available on Apple Music (mostly Beach Boys bootlegs, and other rarity items from artists) and have them available on all my Apple devices. Spotify is hands-down the best for discovering new music, Apple Music is the best streaming service for music library management, imo.

But that being said, even if things are properly labeled, depending on the codec, depending on the means of listening, depending on the EQ settings, any kind of music is going to sound different from service to service. That's just the nature of having many different ways to listen to music these days. And sadly sometimes it also means streaming services will get lazy and mis-label things (very annoying when that happens, though it's been kinda rare for me to encounter that recently).


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 25, 2022, 05:20:28 PM
SOS #52 on this weeks UK album chart


Title: Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced
Post by: Shady on June 25, 2022, 05:24:17 PM
Early figures showing an impressive showing on Billboard.

Sales of 15-20k this week, good for a possible top 30 or 40 finish