The Smiley Smile Message Board

Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

Regarding the documentary, unfortunately I don't think we'll be looking at anything near the scope of the "Beatles Anthology" if we're looking at simply a feature-length doc. 

Someone recently dug up some info indicating the doc is being done with Disney, so I'm guessing we're looking at a single, "feature-length" documentary (*possibly* two parts at the most), probably on the Disney+ streaming service.

I think we're looking at, at best, something more like an updated version of the "Endless Harmony" doc as opposed to a BBs version of the "Beatles Anthology."

Here's the tracklisting from the Apple Music listing which seems to indicate which mixes are 2021, etc.

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279427279_3134225680180774_3490384529100149471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xx-PwQWtbXEAX8Xw3yo&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_ik6xy8FqitNr65SRI3-ERJQW6eesvuYANgQe1b6FH3Q&oe=62700753)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279479393_3134225763514099_2614675209008922828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-q4hAD6clcAX_4goke&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xm0yJw838EwykXfxDveCw6oCukKWErdsitGzSlFz4fQ&oe=626FD6EB)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279294465_3134225833514092_3140508463996588907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h1_wsRYB3TIAX9cwyj3&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_18wZ2qCoHsPczRVFEFTt3NzujKERFZzadLVg9XcO_FQ&oe=626F164A)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279534021_3134225926847416_6845861227748997473_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ThFh7Z_D_LEAX_yYoCc&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8vHhMv6CXGXMjPLi0iSMDMt7C_uhObi78ELq_WX6IWvQ&oe=626EEB8D)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279451058_3134225966847412_1046480487417431356_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1Y877qTw3iUAX-nPdR2&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9RIlZLi8Rzijp2qczZkM02mrbpoZzGVrgbyD2bKdSI5A&oe=626F8689)

(https://scontent-fml2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279454253_3134226043514071_9035690313000144175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MOpmaac0voQAX-R4T5e&tn=hcTSd7Qo5WxZcQSw&_nc_ht=scontent-fml2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_RpVh-b_doKzeAoUS2L2NUBo42xKmpI8MiBU4OJazGuw&oe=626F67AD)

Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

Here's the full press release, which mentions other upcoming projects (the So Tough/Holland archival set, a feature-length documentary, etc.):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-beach-boys-announce-yearlong-60th-anniversary-global-celebration-301535248.html

It’s a little weird there’s nothing from That’s Why God Made the Radio on the expanded Sounds of Summer.

Thanks for sharing that, I am probably most excited by the new mix for the love you tracks as well as this mysterious "alternate take" of all I wanna do, I'm guessing this would be something that was totally different and not included on the FF box

Wondering what the 1993 year listed for those SMiLE tracks means exactly.

Assuming GV 30 Years Box Set mixes?

That's a real head-scratcher.  Why would they use those 1993 mixes?   To my ear, the 2011 Smile Sessions mix of "Wind Chimes" sounds much clearer and crisper.

There are some pretty clear reasons we’d never see SIP tracks on such a set, and I don’t think it needs those tracks.

I think at this stage, given the landscape of how people who this set targets tend to listen to stuff, it’s not useful to try to go strictly chronological, or to be beholden to making sure every album or lead single or whatever is included. That’s how you end up with “Peggy Sue” on “Greatest Hits Vol. 3: Best of the Brother Years.”

Nobody needs “Stars and Stripes” tracks on this. That’s like the 27th rung of tracks hardcore fans collect. (And I’m not even sure BRI has ownership of those tracks; it might still be held by whatever entity holds all of the stuff from that “River North” label or whatever it was).

Obviously, such sets never have the precise set of tracks any one person would pick. But even if we get down to saying, “Okay, let’s ditch “Pom Pom Playgirl” for something”, I could think of a hundred tracks before I got down to S&S or SIP, or most of “Still Cruisin’” for that matter, and I say that as a fan who bows to nobody in my enjoyment of a lot of weird, deepcut, obscure era stuff. Like, I’d really like a multi-disc deluxe set of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive.” But I also know objectively that younger, newer fans tracking this stuff on Spotify aren’t going to be excited by an alternate take of “Oh, Darlin’”, just like they’re not going to be into SIP stuff (which at this stage with that same drum sample running over and over sounds more dated than the BB ’85 album), or the truly awful “Stars and Stripes.” If they want to pull those great backing vocals off the S&S version of “Caroline, No” and sync it to a good Carl lead vocal or something, I’d love to see that. Anything else, I think S&S can be kept as far away from any compilation as possible.

Agreed.  In all honesty though I wouldn't mind some kind of compilation covering or at least including stuff from the 80's/90's era.  As maligned as these decades were, there's still some "not bad" content that has been out of print.  Guilty pleasures such as the stomp-like beat of "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" to other tracks like "Chasin' The Sky", "Happy Endings", "Crocodile Rock" or even the slightly cringey "Problem Child" have been out in the ether for decades.  Even if these songs aren't exactly remarkable it would still be nice to have them if for only completionist's sake.  Maybe by the time Still Cruisin' hits a significant anniversary they can put out a proper album with all these lost tracks in tow.

Actually, I've been disappointed that previous compilations have ignored the 80's, except for Kokomo. Even on a big box like MIC, it's like the 80s/90s never existed. Someday, someway, we need to have a comp that collects all the stray tracks like Chasin' the Sky, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Still Cruisin', Somewhere Near Japan, Crocodile Rock, Runaway.

It sounds OK but it's not something I'll play again too often I think. Love the original mix, despite its 'muddiness' - easily my favorite BB song from the early 70s era. This new mix sounds like they were trying way too hard to make every little sonic detail stick out. If it'll help people (re)discover the song, that's great.

Here it is on YouTube as an alternative channel to hear it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PyCY3hWZ60

Thanks! I have to listen to this with headphones or better speakers. But I really don't like Carl's "ooh-ooho-ohh"'s. Good that they left that off from the original. It's just like the "wha-whas" on the alt. "Help me, Rhonda". Just too much.

I’m loving it. It’s bit like the recent remix of Cahoots by The Band. It’s a completely different way of experiencing the song and for me it works incredibly well. It compliments the original mix.

I think it’s better than the mix on the original release, myself.

Yes, VERY different. But I like it, although sometimes it's too much contemporary sounding. An alternative to the muddy sounding original mix. Brian is the high voice on the "Hey Marcella"s (like at 1:16), right?

A full podcast featuring an new, entertaining interview with Howie Edelson; the vast majority is about the Beach Boys and upcoming releases (Sounds of Summer, the archival sets, etc.):

Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bSHeJB65I3nUbp4eiFsz8?si=YSmMFyPgTO-3Mst6QcO33A&fbclid=IwAR0MiXsihIyHMNq1qtz0PHDJsvLzGfhMlDTyauBrZuqXaJB5zEi_maAEN84&nd=1

or

Google
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xODY4Nzg0LnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xMDc2NzI2NA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiwzuehpKP4AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQNQ

Probably available on other podcast services as well.

Thanks for linking this!

A few thoughts:

- first time I've heard Howie speak his thoughts and really elaborate on where he is coming from. It's great to get some background and awesome to hear the passion he has for this band.
- I love knowing that such caring people are in control of this stuff, we are incredibly lucky fans!
- cannot wait for the CatP, Holland set!! Holland has got to be my favorite era outside of mid-60s stuff.

One thing I want to point out; Howie's thought that "65 year old people aren't buying new music....we have to be aiming at the 23 year old, or this thing dies"

I don't know enough about the market/demographics to really have a meaningful opinion on this, but it is my understanding that the 65 year olds are kinda the only ones actually buying music. I would think that the 23 year olds are mostly streaming music via Spotify, whereas the die-hard older fans are actually buying the sets. I could be completely off on that, but that's my perception of what goes on. And this is coming from someone who at the age of 23 (just 10 some years ago) was spending $100s (if not thousands) on Beach Boys stuff (from books to CDs to boxsets to movies). But from my perspective the market has changed, and more and more kids are just streaming.

I very much agree with Howie that the aim should be at 23 year olds because they are the future of the fandom, but part of me thinks that you can't sell the same type of boxsets that sold 10 years ago to a new generation that doesn't even own a CD player (and many don't own vinyl players). Part of me thinks that the future is an official Beach Boys music app. The main stuff is still on Spotify, but the good stuff, the deep deep cuts, alternate mixes, the studio chatter, insider interviews, monthly giveaways, a new song or small EP every month or two is there for every fan at for $5 a month subscription.

I know people are seemingly overwhelmed by subscriptions, but it is the future and I think it's here to stay. We subscribe to hear music, watch TV, keep a balanced budget, etc etc. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that die-hard fans would pay $5 a month to have access to some amazing continuous content brought to you by a team that really does care about this music a lot.

My basic point is that as generations go by and the fandom evolves, so do the mediums in which we listen to and interact with the music.

Endless Harmony in trashing Howie… ::)

I think what Howie meant was that the Boomers don’t buy new music, just reissues of their favorites. The trouble with that is that demographic is, literally and figuratively, dying out.  It makes sense to want to target a younger audience.

Yep.

I feel like while constructive discussion/criticism of remixes is fine and in fact can be interesting and enlightening, a lot of the carping I’ve seen in other corners of the internet are often missing the point. They just don’t get it. They just don’t understand how things work, whether it’s the industry, or buying or listening trends, demographics, or how things work in the BRI/Iconic world. They also seem to sometimes not have seemingly ever had to work on large projects with a contingent of people where a lot of compromising and horse trading and productive back-and-forth happens behind the scenes. As Howie mentions in the interview, it’s a “think tank” sort of scenario, which is WHAT HARDCORE FANS HAVE ALWAYS WANTED AND NEEDED. It’s not some random old EMI executive, handed a job “without portfolio” looking for something to futz with just to have something to justify their job, coming in with no knowledge of the Beach Boys and deciding what the CD should be is an entire CD of “Kokomo” remixes. It’s a collective of people who both know and love the band as well as anybody, and also know how both the industry the internecine world of BRI/Iconic/Capitol, etc. works.

Yeah, it's a bad scene over there.

I can't take it personally. There's so much anger, frustration and DEEP PAIN at that space.
And there's also ZERO concept of how anything goes down -- they're under the impression I'm berating Linett to make mixes "modern for the kids!!!!"
(For those in the know -- imagine how ABSURD that would look like. . . )

It's a handful of remixes on a mondo comp and it turns into  days of character assassination.
DAYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Some man with a fake name there actually told me to "run away from my problems like I always do!"

Okay?

It's not cool. It's not healthy. And it's definitely not for me.

To try to steer this in a better direction, I have to admit I had kind of lost track of how soon this thing is due to be released. Lest some pedants forget, it's filled with life-changing, life-affirming music.

As I suggested over at Endless Harmony, things did spiral into a frenzy over the weekend. However it is a shame that legitimate discussion around the creative direction of recent releases has been undermined as a result of that frenzy.

I like that the new version of Marcella reveals new details/parts that were either absent from or mixed down within the original release. I also like that it rocks a more. But I sympathize and to some extent agree with the view that the high end has been overhyped somewhat.

More generally, we should also be able to discuss the relative merits of say how the Sunshine Tomorrow release "sounds" compared to Feel Flows, especially as critics as well as fanatics have commented on apparently negative aspects of the latter: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971- (https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971-). These discussions are fun when done properly and I would have been very interested to hear what Howie thinks of the credible aspects of what has been argued over the last few days.

It should also be noted that those making a fuss over at Endless Harmony are not all old timer fans. At least one is a young fan who may come off a little brash at times but also offers a fresh and important enthusiasm to proceedings.

Remixes are awesome because they don't replace the originals at all. It's the closest way we can get to a brand new album by our favorite band to exist.

The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

Funny I've always thought the original mix of CatP (including Marcella) was absolutely magical. But at the same time I am loving the new mix more with each listen...may surpass the original for me at some point.
_______

Aaaaand they have literally locked the Sounds of Summer thread on EH because apparently Howie didn't react to their firing squad in a proper manner :lol

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.

The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I don’t want to belabor any of this, but even the person who weirdly nearly transcribed the friggin’ podcast interview, they listened to it (presumably *more* than once), and *still* didn’t actually absorb it or understand it. And it’s not difficult to understand. There are many examples, but I’ll pick one out. The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022. There are a myriad of ways to go about this, and more is being done now in this realm by the current team than has ever been done in the past.

It wasn’t that long ago that we had to be excited about stuff like that meager “Songs from Here and Back” CD at Hallmark. Oooh, “PT Cruiser” again, but this time I can buy it at Hallmark? Be still my heart….

One day I imagine liner notes being able to be viewed as the music plays, where you just maneuver around like a Kindle and flip through. That would be amazing.

In advance of what I'm going to reply to Steve so the truth actually gets told, I'm not doing this to derail or distract from the box set discussions. But when someone posts what are either outright lies or distortions against me, I get a chance to reply. So here it is.

Getting this out of the way first, Steve, I did in fact address this the day it all happened and posted a reply publicly. If anyone reached out to me privately on this issue I also discussed it with them off the board. Maybe you missed this or conveniently ignored it, but here is that exact reply with the date and link. After writing that, I said my peace and apologized. Until you and manning carried over to this forum this week, some two years after it happened and in Manning's case four years after he last posted here, my words have been on this forum for anyone to read.


Steve wrote: " He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet."

Totally false statement, Steve. I never said such a thing. I also never downloaded the set illegally on the internet. Don't charge me with things I didn't do, or tell people I said something I never said. The proof is in my archived posts. Perhaps you should check your facts before making accusations like this.

Steve wrote: "You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since."

Bullshit, Steve. Again I never said I would download this set illegally, and I never did. Again as you can see in my posts, the set was posted on the official Beach Boys YouTube channel when it first came out, and I listened there. Not that it's any of your business, but I also paid for the set later through Amazon Music. So again, get your facts straight before lying about me and what I said or did.

The issue of this having anything to do with the Feel Flows box set has already been addressed by multiple people here. It is ridiculous, and as you've already been told by someone who actually knows what's going on, it has nothing to do with the current issues surrounding Feel Flows.

Steve wrote: "If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling."

Ok Steve, let's run your example another way. Let's say you had someone doing work for any company who had a decade-plus history of spreading lies and gossip about people in that company. Let's say some of those lies and gossip got revealed one day. Let's go even further and say the lies and gossip being spread by that person was about the spouse and family of one of that company's board members, not just a board member but one of the founders of that company.

Steve, how long do you think THAT person would last at the company? Do you think they'd be asked to do any more work for that company? Do you think they'd be invited to the company Christmas party and get thanked in the program?

How long do you think it would take before that person was out on their ass in the street once years of their lies and gossip about a founder and board member's wife came to light?

Well, you'll have to plug in the names in that example. It's funny how "appalling" you claim my comments were yet you seem to have no problem at all sitting silent through years of the other example which actually happened. Hint: The company name was BRI and the band's name was the Beach Boys. Fill in the rest...and next time try not to project dirty laundry that goes beyond anything you've tried to pin on me onto another example.

Appalling is g*ddamned right. Years of mocking and bashing a founding Beach Boys' wife...I guess in the book of Steve, that's not near as appalling as listening to tracks on YouTube. For fucks sake, take a dose of reality and perspective next time.

Steve wrote: "Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts."

See my quote above from 2018.

Steve wrote: "That was what john was referring to."

I guess you're speaking for John Manning since he hasn't bothered to come back to respond or reply to questions asked of him two days ago? Or is this part of the email you sent him? Well, if you email him again, you can pass on the message that a few questions were asked of him, in case he missed them. Or maybe his first and only visit in four years was just to do a drive-by and try to take some shots at me. Anyway, if you are speaking for him now, pass it on to him if you would.


One last thing. Steve, you may have issues with me and that's perfectly fine. You can address them with me any time. But don't post outright lies and other bits of info that are false, especially when the exact words from years past are archived on this board and available for anyone to read. And don't try to place the blame for a box set not coming out on me when it's not only ridiculous, but you don't have a clue on the reasons why. It makes you look foolish (you can pass that on to Manning as well), especially in this case when what you posted doesn't match at all what was said or done. Oh, and this whole thing about bootlegs and illegal downloads and whatnot...I did get the message you sent me last summer offering me some unreleased Beach Boys material. I ignored it and never replied, but I'll make that right and do so now:

No thanks.

 

As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.

I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.

Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!

I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.

I completely understand this side of the argument, however there's little that the creators of these remixes can do to determine if these will become "the" preferred version of the song that is played the most, and whether that version takes a greater hold in the public consciousness more than the original version, or not.

So many of these elements are out of peoples' hands, whether a given version winds up on a playlist on Spotify by some popular influencer and winds up getting traction, etc.… The new 21st century methods by which music is shared and popularized are often dictated by fans and playlists, so it is a situation where things such as determining which version becomes "the" version will really ultimately be out of their hands.

Once again, the original versions are there for people who want to hear them. I really don't think those original albums/mixes are going to fall into some sort of deep obscurity. However, admittedly, the new mixes will probably for the short term gain more traction than the originals, but this attention level ebbs and flows.

But even if a new version winds up eclipsing the originals in the public consciousness, I think it's still absolutely worth it for those new versions to be made and released. It's still cool that the band has great folks working on new ways to revitalize the old catalog, and we should all consider ourselves very lucky that this is happening. And once again, anybody who dislikes a particular version can simply skip it with no harm done.

Ultimately the brand is not going to somehow be diminished/hurt, nor will the brand lose fans over these new mixes. At worst, things would stay stagnant. But in my opinion, in all likelihood the brand will just continue to grow in stature among young people in part helped by the media attention the mixes will probably bring to the brand, and that's a good thing.

It's too bad there wasn't a push behind it.  I didn't start keeping track right away because I didn't think there would be a noticeable bump, but California Dreamin' has had over 4 million streams on Spotify in the past 10 days.  In another week I'll be running my yearly Spotify data on the Beach Boys and looking at last year's 2.7 million all time streams, the vast majority of its increase has come since the Stranger Things release.  It currently has 8.9 million streams.  As of now it's their second most popular song on Spotify.   

I was also a little disappointed to see the subtitles label it as by the Mamas and Papas, but that could be a legal thing.  Definitely at least a minor missed opportunity to not do more with it.   

These mixes are an interesting curio. But, for me, personally, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to create NEW mixes for a greatest HITS collection.
I have the same issue with album versions, like "Be True To Your School," "California Saga: California" or "Help Me, Rhonda" showing up on hits compilations. These are all essentially the same songs, but are not the hits that people know and love.
While I'm not really a fan of the new "Marcella" mix, I'm not opposed to new mixes for specially marketed rarities, etc albums. I VERY much prefer the 2012 mix of "Rock and Roll Music" or fan mixes that I've heard of "Breakaway" with Brian on lead throughout the song and a breathtaking mix of "'Till I Die." I use them in my personal playlist, but if I was introducing someone to The Beach Boys or trying to expand their horizons of them, I would definitely default to the originals.

It really bothers me when people get SO UPSET and start attacking those who are working on these projects.

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.

Its this great music. Period.

Also, as I posted before....where the hell is my pudding?

Sorry again for interjecting into the thread, but since this stuff is going back and forth, it's time to address yet another lie being told about people here. This nonsense and the lies need to stop.

So it's been said yet again that people were banned here "for simply stating our opinions". This according to "feelsflow", whose membership is still active here and who was not banned.

I'll make this one easy: That's an outright lie. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was banned here for "simply stating their opinions". Period. If people can't accept this, or prefer to lie and ignore the facts, we'd be happy to open the archives and go through exactly what people who were banned actually did or how they acted to trigger a ban. It's not pretty, and I'd rather not see that happen. But keep lying, Will and others, and you'll see what actually happened because it's all in the archives. The bans were for breaking board rules, most times repeatedly. And that's a fact. How those rules were broken by the banned individuals would cast them in a pretty bad light in some cases, which is why that's not something we'd want to see happen.

So here's another case where people who carry grudges cannot let things go after 5-7 years, and who continue to lie. They lie about me, lie about Billy, lie about Charles and the operation of this forum, they've lied about Brian Wilson and his family, they've lied about Howie most recently, they've continually lied about how and why people were banned here, and it continues to this day.

Appalling.

Just grow up, get over it, tell the truth, and talk about the music. If the only thing left to do to boost yourself up is spread lies and false information, that's pretty pathetic.

Sorry for the interruption.

Sorry again for interjecting into the thread, but since this stuff is going back and forth, it's time to address yet another lie being told about people here. This nonsense and the lies need to stop.

So it's been said yet again that people were banned here "for simply stating our opinions". This according to "feelsflow", whose membership is still active here and who was not banned.

I'll make this one easy: That's an outright lie. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was banned here for "simply stating their opinions". Period. If people can't accept this, or prefer to lie and ignore the facts, we'd be happy to open the archives and go through exactly what people who were banned actually did or how they acted to trigger a ban. It's not pretty, and I'd rather not see that happen. But keep lying, Will and others, and you'll see what actually happened because it's all in the archives. The bans were for breaking board rules, most times repeatedly. And that's a fact. How those rules were broken by the banned individuals would cast them in a pretty bad light in some cases, which is why that's not something we'd want to see happen.

So here's another case where people who carry grudges cannot let things go after 5-7 years, and who continue to lie. They lie about me, lie about Billy, lie about Charles and the operation of this forum, they've lied about Brian Wilson and his family, they've lied about Howie most recently, they've continually lied about how and why people were banned here, and it continues to this day.

Appalling.

Just grow up, get over it, tell the truth, and talk about the music. If the only thing left to do to boost yourself up is spread lies and false information, that's pretty pathetic.

Sorry for the interruption.

Excuse me while I mosh to Marcella.

Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.

Well, this time tomorrow I will be thinking of nothing else except for the music.

I do think that the lies and distortion need to be pointed out and refuted as long as people keep pushing those false narratives. I've been called out for spreading lies in the past on this forum (I had made a wrong assumption), but you own up to it and apologize. You don't ignore it and continue to tell the lie/untruth...or you at least explain why you think you're telling the truth and provide evidence. The culture on that forum is one where they promote this idea of welcoming and openness, but then you continually read lie after lie about people or events. And there are some really good people on that forum, and either they are willfully ignorant of the history of certain personalities there, or they just don't see it. Take a look at how the "leadership" on that forum dealt with this most recent incident and you can see exactly what I mean.

Anyways, this set comes out tomorrow and I couldn't be more excited for it. Hopefully all of us can just appreciate the great music. Perhaps there will be mixes I don't care for on the set, so be it. I'm just happy that we've got amazing people running the show and I've loved what I've heard thus far.

New stereo mix of Surfin' USA now on Spotify.

The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022.

The point that you and Howie are missing is that 20-year-olds who are into FM classic rock are already into the Beach Boys. And they don't care what some boomer critics wrote in Rolling Stone fifty years ago. That old school of thought is painfully irrelevant.

One of the major reasons EH blew up was because of Howie saying that 20-year-olds don't appreciate the nerdy/kitsch songs. It's an insane statement. Bands like Weezer, They Might Be Giants, and BMX Bandits made entire careers out of exploiting Beach Boys-style kitsch. Are they seen as "shitty doo-wop" today? No!

If you were offended by the Marcella mix, you'll no doubt feel the same way about Let Us Go On This Way -- it's got a big reverb-y drum sound that's clearly meant to play to the contemporary listener in a way that the entire Love You album distinctly does not.

But Baby Blue -- oh my. Gorgeous. Fully lives up to Howie Edelstein's hype. I'll never want to hear the original mix again.

I like the new mix of Mess of Help -- drums maybe a bit too conspicuous, but dispels the muddiness of the original without committing sacrilege.

Also, I think it’s far too broad of a statement to say that 20-year-olds in 2022 who are into “FM rock” are already into the Beach Boys. Like, they’re all familiar with “Here She Comes” and “Steamboat?”

HeyJude, it seems like we listened to a different podcast. Howie explicitly said that he makes decisions about the comps based on what he thinks is "cool" from the perspective of a hypothetical 23-year-old. That is what disturbed the REAL 20-year-olds who lurk around the BBs fan community, none of whom are particularly active on this forum. Almost everything else in your post is, again, irrelevant to that single point.

Once again, HeyJude, you've drowning yourself in rhetoric and obfuscating what Howie actually said:

"What I did was say, "I'm going to cover the Beach Boys like it's the Who, the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, because I want to right a great wrong. I want to cover them like they should have been covered in 1967.""

"I think I bring the cool. I know what's cool. And I know what's cool about them, and I know what hasn't been tapped about them."

"There were songs that I wasn't cool with being on the new comp, and I got outvoted. The stuff that I wanted to back away from was the - my fear is that they will get perceived, worst case scenario, as Pat Boone. As shitty doo-wop. As a public TV special. That's what I don't want. So where am I always pushing is: get the beards, get them playing Central Park. That kind of stuff where they're more modern. The Beach Boys sang about mom and dad, and high school. Unless you're like, somebody who's in the kitsch of like Weezer, and that nerdy kind of thing... Grease ain't cool anymore. You know what I mean? But you know what is cool? Sunflower. Surf's Up. Take A Load Off Your Feet. Student Demonstration Time. Feel Flows. That kind of stuff."

"When Mark was doing the remixes last summer, I was pushing him to go even further. I was saying specifically to him, there are some Beach Boys albums where the album is there, the songs are there, but the production left the band down. Either it was rushed, or it didn't... The production didn't match the quality of the performance and the material. The weak link in a lot of stuff was a shitty mix and bad mastering. So what I was saying to Linett was, "You need to be the producer that they never had then. You need to be the guy that's hearing all that stuff and realizing it. Be the guy in the corner that they needed."

"So as far as it goes at making it understandable to a younger generation, absolutely. Because 62-year-old people, 65-year-old people aren't buying new music. We have to be aiming for the 23-year-old, or this thing dies."


Here's (hopefully) my last words on the subject:

There will never be a time when critics rank So Tough and Holland side-by-side with Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, Aja, Hotel California, or Rumours. We need to accept this.

Isn't it funny how we've gone full circle from "America's Top Surfing Band!" to "America's Top Classic Rock Band!"?

Anyone in charge of marketing and promotion for the Beach Boys needs to stop framing them as "classic rock à la the Beatles and Rolling Stones." If you can't appreciate the fact that the Beach Boys are inimitably kitsch at heart, then you're probably not qualified to be the arbiter of what's "cool" about them.

If everybody working in, for, and around the band had resigned themselves to that fate, we never would have seen something like the "Feel Flows" set.

I'm all for bringing everything in, including the weird, subversive stuff. It can all be a part of the narrative. But it's like trying to turn someone on to the Beach Boys because they did drugs or hung out with Charles Manson. Or because John Stamos thinks they're cool. I'm all for piggybacking off of everything a little bit.

But the band itself already *hasn't* in the past understood the intrinsic value of their unreleased material, to use one example. If you go to them and tell them you want to market them as "kitsch", it's not going to make them *more* enthusiastic about released "Holland" outtakes.

All of this ignores how the actual Beach Boys/BRI/Iconic situation works, both now and historically. And that's important, because the team working on these releases isn't just thinking about 20-year-olds. They're also navigating the politics of BRI, Iconic, Capitol/UMe, and the individual members and their whims.

If you were offended by the Marcella mix, you'll no doubt feel the same way about Let Us Go On This Way -- it's got a big reverb-y drum sound that's clearly meant to play to the contemporary listener in a way that the entire Love You album distinctly does not.

But Baby Blue -- oh my. Gorgeous. Fully lives up to Howie Edelstein's hype. I'll never want to hear the original mix again.

I like the new mix of Mess of Help -- drums maybe a bit too conspicuous, but dispels the muddiness of the original without committing sacrilege.

Great to hear about 'Baby Blue' - can't wait to hear that too!

BOOM. Sums it up perfectly (the whole post, but specifically this^). As you have written painfully numerous times: Howie isn't the only guy deciding stuff. He is one guy on what is basically a HUGE committee that decides the future of what gets released, what the image of those releases will be, etc. I love the nerdy stuff, and I want it all released, but I also completely understand what Howie is saying. And again, he ain't the only person on the team and this should be ridiculously obvious to people.

We've got to be the most lucky and childish fandom in the history of music. To get the SMiLE boxset (and what a beautiful set it was) and then all of the amazing content we've gotten since. And yet people are incessantly whining about the Feel Flows set because of 10 seconds of supposed unlistenable vocals on 'Hawaiian Dream' (oh the humanity!) - for the life of me I cannot find any moment on the entire set where the audio sounds bad. Maybe I'm listening on the wrong studio headphones, or maybe my $$$$ home stereo system just isn't cutting it anymore to where I can't pick up on some infinitesimal moment of high treble.

And whether or not one agrees with Howie or has a personal preference regarding the sound of the latest releases (to each their own), I just don't see how the reaction to Howie's podcast interview can even be defended. Howie was proud of the mixing that Mark/Alan did on 'Baby Blue' (and apparently it is a great sounding mix) and was called arrogant for his "definitive" comment. Even the administrator of the forum was so obnoxiously flippant when responding to Howie the entire thread. And remember, Howie is the guy who fought long and hard for Feel Flows to even be released. And this is the thanks he gets.

Again, the combination of politics and just the culture of dishonest pleasantry that permeates that forum - the response to such a chill interview is indefensible, imo.

Prior to Feel Flows. The way they’re being marketed , and how they are described by the music media, has certainly changed.

This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum. I know a lot of people think of Fleetwood Mac’s popularity being mainly due to the Tik Tok thing with Dreams are missing the boat… same with the Kate Bush song being on Stranger Things and is currently #4 on the Hot 100…. these are legacy artists that were already starting to get traction amongst a younger fan base (and in the Mac’s case it’s the Bob Welch period that has gained a lot of traction; conversely the Peter Green era has lost a lot of steam) .
There are songs charting that sound retro; not “manufactured major label artists” but artists from mid sized indies who write and play their own music.

As far as the Beatles goes, I’m mostly  referring to raw numbers, along with how they’re viewed in comparison by the younger set overall, musicians , media and general public alike . Hell look at music discussions on YouTube or browse non beach boys sites that deal with music that aren’t Hoffman (too old of a crowd). My daughter’s 15 next month and she can pretty much spot trends right before they happen. Hindsight and the lack of cultural bias is an amazing eye opener . We are too close to the action. I’ve been on these boards for over 26 years . I was a younger fan of 17 but the world has changed immensely since . Imagine hearing the band now as a new fan and having SO much available legally and easily be able to put things in context with bias.

This really deserves its own thread but for the first time ever things are lining up perfectly for The Beach Boys, and this time it’s past the point of being able to screw things up.

The music of Brian Wilson is 'kitsch'? That is just laughable. Couldn't be further removed from the truth.

I'm catching some deja vu vibes to 2015 when various parts of the No Pier Pressure album were also tagged with the label "unlistenable"...often by posters with less than 10 posts to their history too. So like HeyJude, I have to wonder what's going on if the tag "unlistenable" is being thrown around again, by posters with short or no histories. That's what's happening?

I will NEVER understand the desire for The Beach Boys to be a guilty pleasure. I just don’t get it. I mean, sh*t, it’s ok if other people like what you like 🙄

Definitely deja vu vibes to NPP. There was that 10 second iPhone video of an 'On The Island' session that sent some "fans" into a full-blown panic because they suspected "autotune". There was so much petulant backlash that Brian/Management issued a statement about the negative responses. To an iPhone recording of a bossa nova song. Think about that.

This is similar, where something as harmless as a podcast interview turns into a complete shitshow on a forum. Thankfully, since NPP was released, most of those brilliant music critics have gone to the EH forum...Which is exactly why the shitshow took place there and not here.


It was embarrassing 10 years ago (when I first became a huge fan) to bring this band up to people. Many times I'd hear more about Uncle Jesse than anything else. I know other fans have gone through much worse. So yeah, I appreciate any effort to elevate these guys above Kokomo and and Uncle Jesse references. And in the last 10 years I have seen a shift in tone about The Beach Boys. Not sure why, but perhaps the ongoing PR for the last 10 years has had some effect.

On another note, I implore people to type in 'Shut Down' into their preferred streaming/music service, and listen to the first 10 seconds of each old/vintage mix of that song, then listen to the new 2021 version. It is absolutely like night and day in terms of quality. There is a ton of clarity and life in the 2021 version. The bg vocals aren't panned to the right anymore for stereo. It is just full (in a good way).

If the other early songs are mixed like this we are really in for a treat!

You're right - it's all there. No doubt it will become available wherever you are when the clock strikes midnight, as it has just done here in Australia.

The new "marcella" is incredible

I'm not quite sure what's going on with "let us go on this way"

Maybe I need to give it time

Can you tell us what the new mix of ‘I Get Around’ sounds like?

Also glad to see others are enjoying the new Marcella mix too. As I said from the get-go, I can totally see why some don’t like it (it is a very different sound). But man it scratches an itch I didn’t even know I had - really has a great punch to it.

Just a couple more hours and I’ll be able to listen to the whole set!

Hey guys -- can I just say, AGD was the ONLY one over there that I knew that had the class and balls to take my part.

Even I guy that I know -- and have actually helped -- could only muster a weak, "Howie may be brash, but. . . ."

Let's not sh*t on people here.
We're better than that.

OK I am listening on Amazon Prime - German based and this set is not doing much for me, primarily because of someone being lazy and using mono mixes for many tracks, despite labelling them as stereo mixes. Then I Get Around is the faux-stereo mono seperated by a slight delay duophonic crap mix. Then the alleged Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, Help Me Rhonda, When I Grow Up, In My My Room, Heroes & Villains, Do It Again, darlin', Good Vibrations, Good to My Baby, You're So Good to Me, Aren't You Glad,  Wendy, Let Him Run Wild, & Vegetables are all plain mono. This is a big slaps in the face to users who pay for the Amazon streaming service and detracts from appreciating the mixes that are the true new mixes. What in the hell is going on here?

I was walking to pick my kids up the other day and blasting Sounds Of Summer on shuffle and "Wind Chimes' came on. Now, I've always preferred the Smiley version of the tune and I find myself only really listening to SMiLE in the fall and winter -- it's never been summer music for me. But with it being the first stereo version, I let it play through. Now, this was just a gorgeous New York City spring day. We don't really get many anymore, for years it's felt like it goes from April to August. But hearing that bombastic bridge/B-section -- the horns, the harmonies, mixed with the perfect temperature, lush trees, and eden-like sunshine -- my heart just exploded. It was LITERALLY "the thing." It took me RIGHT to that place. The place where there's joy, and hope, and you can't help but look and DWELL on the bright side. Just ZENITH Beach Boys heaven.

After all these years, that's never happened with me and that song until the other day and THIS comp. Perfect timing.

Not sure if this will work in your country, but here is the link to the YouTube Music page with the new SoS mixes: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLcpqmy5v1q-ZZdbYvU5x1gkl8VfLZq9k)

I remember back when Apple Music started and I ported ALL of my booted/rarity tracks into my library. Apple replaced them all with with official versions of the tracks. Grateful that I have backups of this stuff. But sometimes these streaming services do the weirdest things. I hope you're able to hear the proper stereo versions soon!

The new "marcella" is incredible

Youtube sound is definitely an improvement on Spotify/Deezer for me. Still some bizarre/sloppy things in this set that I can't understand how they got past the approval process. Why not fade out the hiss on Baby Blue vocal rather than just abruptly cut it? as an example.

Or would you rather talk about music? It doesn't seem that way, but I hope that's why people visit these places. Throwing tantrums on 6 year old grudges and outbursts must be more appealing?

Yeah there are some oddities for sure, such as the guitar track on Surfin Safari - one of my favorite earlier tracks - and there is a lot of digital distortion noticeable on that guitar track (though the vocals are mixed gorgeously). And yeah, I did notice abrupt hiss clips in one or two of the tracks. But thankfully these oddities are rare for me, and overall all the remixes sound fantastic to my ears, and given only 24 of 80 tracks are remixed, a couple of those tracks having oddities doesn't really effect my experience.

I think there are also massive differences in the mix depending on the way you listen to it. The difference between Dolby Atmos being on and off is huge (I prefer it being off). I mentioned audio codecs before and I think that is at play here (which is why there are differences in quality/sound between platforms). Also having any EQ on Spotify (and Apple Music) effects how the mix sounds. Also there is a difference in sound when listening to wired/analog vs Bluetooth. There are a lot of variables to consider in the digital age.

On another note, I see people are now complaining about Carl and Dennis' tracks being tinkered with (this is somehow sacrilege). Didn't Chuck Britz help Brian with mixing the early-mid-60s output of The Beach Boys? Is it sacrilege that he isn't here to give his token of approval on the mixes he helped Brian with? People are scraping the bottom of the barrel to trash this project.

Anywho, I'm off for a drive, gonna put the windows down and crank this new set. It's gonna be a good day :)

Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park.
Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways.
Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer. I appreciate the effort you all put into this set.

if that really is how you feel great. but you really should remove that latin phrase under your avatar post. goes against what you are preaching.

No.

Brian was the producer for most of  the ‘60s material. Carl was the primary producer for many of the ‘70s tracks. Many of the remixes impart significant production changes to the tracks. Chuck Britz was a recording engineer working under Brian’s direction.

If no one here's gonna say it, then I will. These remasters and remixes are dreadfully brittle. Most of them sound like they're on the verge of crumbling into a thousand pieces. Like they're being held together by Elmer's glue and rubber bands.

Baby Blue is possibly the worst offender. That compression. That hiss. "The definitive mix"? Holy tomatoes.

Why do the horns on Let Us Go On This Way sound like they were recorded on a flip phone from 2005?

God help you, Mark. And God help listeners with misophonia. I'd never recommend this set as an entry point to the Beach Boys.

And sadly the lies continue over there. I really hate breaking in like this because I do have a lot of thoughts on the new mixes, but for God's sake just tell the truth and stop the lies about this place and things that happened 5-7 years ago, guys. Now it's Paul JB saying people were banned for expressing opinions against Brian Wilson or defending Mike Love.

That NEVER HAPPENED. Period.

Maybe you could move the EH vs. SS discussion to its own thread? I want to read people’s thoughts on Sounds of Summer and not get involved in a lot of drama I neither care nor know anything about.

The highlight for me so far is Do You Like Worms, that was a surprise that I didn't expect, but the separation of the tracks really gives it a cool new listening experience.

I agree with this, it caught me off guard in a great way. It kind of reminded me of the 'fake stereo' from the Good Vibrations box set of the same track. Or, at least that's my memory of it.

But so much better and 'proper' stereo mix. I wouldn't mind hearing a fully remixed "2011 Smile" album in stereo. I think it might reveal some nuances hitherto unheard.

YES.

This new Worms mix really brought a lot of sonic color to the mix, which just doesn't exist in the mono (to my ears). I love my TSS set, but I wouldn't mind getting a remixed stereo version in the future.

Yeah sorry about that. Since all this talk was somewhat related to the release it kinda made sense for it to be in this thread. But yeah, post-release I can see it being annoying for most people to read that drivel haha. Hopefully that's the end of it.

So do you want to talk facts? We have those and would be happy to open the archives to show what these people did who were banned here. Not a single ban was done for criticizing Brian or defending Mike. Period. If someone has information to add to that, please let me, Billy, and Charles know because we know how and why the bans happened. 

I see what you mean in that regard. But I also just don't see why this is an issue. As Billy says, the originals are all there to listen to. People just seem to be nitpicking this stuff to death....if you don't like it simply put on the plethora of original versions that are available.

I can understand that feeling…but the original mixes are still available! I’m literally on Spotify as we type listening to the All Summer Long album in mono! If the new mix of Marcella was inserted into So Tough, then that’d be out of line. But it’s not! It’s one thing to not like the new mixes… I do for the most part (although I do prefer the original mono ) but the whole thing about Carl not being here to sign off….sorry , IMHO that is faulty logic. By that same logic, we need to remove every copyright extension release. No more performance of classical music, as Bach can’t sign off on it. Get rid of every Beatles reissue after Lennon died. Nobody could ever cover a song again.

Ok, so that sounds a bit extreme, but hopefully my point is clear. As long as it is clearly labeled a remix, there’s no issue. Now passing off a new mix as the original vintage deal, now that’s a different thing entirely

I dig it and appreciate the effort.

Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience.

That simply isn’t true. Those “old mono mixes” are what created the Beach Boys’ success, and allowed it to endure, for  the bulk of their career. Brian’s mono mixes are so superior … they hit harder, they pop and punch, and they are delicate and compelling.

It’s odd to me that you seem to be trash talking Brian’s OG mixes with the argument that newer mixes are more … commercial?

As I’ve noted a few times here in the past, in the mono era, there was no such thing as “the mix” as a stand-alone thing like we know it today. The track was built along the way, and each element was moving toward the “dubdown”, or the ultimate record.

Yeh but this kind of thing is like “ha wow I wish The Beach Boys weren’t on Full House.” Some will say, well just don’t watch it. But the gripe is not about the person who doesn’t like The Beach Boys on Full House. It’s about a greater concern for the way the group is presented.

It’s not about not doing anything that Carl can’t sign off on. To me, I’m curious as to why there was any kind of desire to endlessly remix the tracks like this in the first place, and to include them in place of the original (IMO tasteful, artful, and definitive) versions on a high profile release such as this.

“Trash talking”, by calling them “old” (which they are), and in this day and age mono isn’t going to be a hit with the widest possible audience here in 2022 (gee big surprise!). Brian specifically mixed the tracks to sound amazing for the AM radio mono speakers of his time.

Just the fact you have to outlandishly claim someone is “trash talking” because they’re simply stating facts just shows how ”strong” your argument is.

Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Sure it would fly. Earbuds and iPhone speakers like mono mixes just fine if not more.

Might be slightly off-topic, but this is a great point I feel a lot of people, not just listeners but sound engineers and producers as well are forgetting a lot of times. The "youngsters" don't listen to music with a HI-FI stereo or 5.1 system. They, me included for 90 % times, listen to sounds out of their phone speaker or a bluetooth speaker, which basicly is almost equivalent to an old AM or FM radio. Earbuds, same thing, stereo won't make a difference. Mostly people hear it in MONO anyway, even if they don't realize that.

Has no one noticed that the Beatles are also remixing their records? Even classics like Abbey Road that are about as perfectly mixed as makes no difference? (Many Beatles fans loathe them, too.) I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. But clearly there’s some thought in the industry that remastering isn’t enough — classic bands need to have their classic tracks mixed anew and with an ear toward current tastes.

As stated repeatedly on this thread, these mixes are not replacing those on the classic albums, which are widely available and simple to find. They are clearly labeled and dated alternates. If we want this music to live, it can’t sit on a shelf. It has to live in the world of earbuds and streaming, of loudness wars and Bluetooth, of YouTube clips and Spotify playlists.

And my God I’d rather Mark and Howie and Alan do this than Mike Love and LoCash…

“Old” mono mixes. “Crude” stereo separation. “Overly dense mixes”. “Less appealing”. “Overly dense” is a jab dude. And certainly not a “fact” as you say LOL. Calling relevant musical works “old” is a jab. When people are listening to Surfin Safari or I Get Around this summer, they are part of the moment whether OG mono or AI extractions.

That is trash talking the OG records. Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

It is what it is, but it’s odd to me we are at a point as fans where people are trashing the original productions/recordings, and defending reinventions of them with the argument they are more commercial? What the heck, you know? Bizarre.

Aside from that, I absolutely disagree that mono is not where it’s at. Mono is way hipper than stereo. Mono BB vinyl sells for higher prices at this point. It’s a selling point. Hang out in any record store. Sundazed and Rhino are well aware of this. Analog mixes and analog mastering is also a selling point.

There are plenty of potential ways to go with the back catalog. This is one of them but not the only one.

This isn't an either/or situation. The original mixes are all out there, and they are all still prevalent.

This isn't even an either/or situation anymore as far as what gets released. There was a period of time decades ago when it was a legit complaint that re-packagings were happening *instead* of archival releases and other interesting *new* product. That is no longer the case. The same team putting together great archival releases is also now able to put their efforts into re-issues and compilations, which *are going to happen regardless*. Isn't it the best case scenario to have those archival releases of previously unreleased material, and then also have that same team putting thought and effort into the best way to present a 60th anniversary hits comp that's inevitably going to come out and easily could have just been like the three 90s "Greatest Hits" CDs tossed into one compilation?

Your beef seems to be that the old mixes (yes, they are "old"; meaning they are from many many years ago; they came previously) are being "disrespected", which I think is ridiculous to tell to a group of HARDCORE Beach Boys fans. Most of us own the original mixes many times over, and few of us are saying we only ever pull out latter-day stereo remixes. Not only do we own those original mixes, they have been presented *multiple* times on physical media in relatively recent years. Capitol did a bunch of mono/stereo two-fers in 2012, Audio Fidelity did CD/SACD hybrids of much of the catalog. Most of the post-60s material still *hasn't* even been remixed, so it's mostly original mixes out there to this day exclusively.

If we want to get into the nitty gritty on judging old mixes, I don't think pointing out the downsides to *some* of them is any form of disrespect. To slavishly default to or always defer to the *first* mix of everything is, in my opinion, too narrow and insular. The nature of how some of the stuff was recorded and mixed *absolutely* buries a bunch of elements of some of those tracks. The '96 Pet Sounds stereo remix was a revelation. Tons more could be heard. It was a great *alternate/new* way to hear the album. And frankly, I usually *do* default to the stereo mix on that particular one. I love the mono mixes too. I like listening to those to get the original context for how they sounded when they came out, and I like to hear the sometimes dry relative sound of those mixes. And some are still the go-go. But not all. And liking a remix isn't a denigration of the original, or anybody who worked on it. *Especially* when the originals are by and large still there as well.

This isn't a Star Wars situation where the special effects and model work of the people who originally worked on those films has literally been erased, replaced, and the originals made no longer (officially) available.

Yes, saying “old overly dense mixes” while defending remixes is $hit talking the originals. Not sure how that’s is controversial or debatable.

And this tired argument of “the old mixes are now going away, not you have both!” misses my point, which I don’t care to make again as I’ve already made it above.

So- if someone added a bonus track of “Summer in Paradise” to the end of a Pet Sounds reissue and lots of people loved it, would you say “well if you don’t like hearing ‘Summer in Paradise’, you can just skip it. It’s not like the original track listing is going away!”?

Yeh but this kind of thing is like “ha wow I wish The Beach Boys weren’t on Full House.” Some will say, well just don’t watch it. But the gripe is not about the person who doesn’t like The Beach Boys on Full House. It’s about a greater concern for the way the group is presented.

It’s not about not doing anything that Carl can’t sign off on. To me, I’m curious as to why there was any kind of desire to endlessly remix the tracks like this in the first place, and to include them in place of the original (IMO tasteful, artful, and definitive) versions on a high profile release such as this.

I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.

My thing is that there are other artists/catalogs/films, etc. where there are tons of items/versions that are just completely unavailable. I again refer to the "Star Wars" example (and even that is becoming more moot as time goes by and finding high quality "original" versions of those old films is pretty easy if you look), where I have no problem if someone *gets into* those films by seeing the futzed-with versions with new CGI and whatnot, but it is problematic that they can't then also go back, if they become a true/big/hardcore fan, and watch the *original* versions.

With the BB catalog, with some random exceptions, you can find most original mono and stereo mixes. Anybody who becomes a big enough fan to want to find that stuff can find it, usually with plenty of options in terms of format, resolution, etc.

It's the wild west out there on streaming services as far as mixes/versions. I'm surprised places like Spotify are as clean as they are in terms of the BB catalog, where most stuff shockingly actually *is* marked as mono or stereo or remix, and they've usually gone out of their way to mark the year of the remix as well.

Again, I like some remixes more than others. I've criticized them sometimes in the past. I think the PS stereo mix is great, one of the best. I said way back in 2007 or whenever that "Warmth of the Sun" comp came out that some of the remixes of stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder" were too wet/too much echo/reverb. But I can't think of a remix that would turn off a new fan from liking a SONG/RECORDING. And I think a stronger case can be made that it would net additional new/young fans who want something a bit more punchy or opened-up in terms of mix (again, we have to speak in generalities about remixes; they don't all serve the same purpose or are made with the same exact ethos, as Wirestone discussed previously).

Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

I'm waiting for affordable headphones that replicate the sound of a home theater space the way Virtual Reality replicates a large visual space. In the meantime, can Beach Boys songs get a binaural mix to produce a nice surround effect in headphones?

And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.

Really wish "Still Crusin" or "Somewhere near Japan" made the cut for this album.

A guy can dream.

OK I picked up the 3 CD set, and I am happy to finally hear the correct mixes of the tracks.

However, I will argue that I should -not- have to buy a set if I already pay money for streaming services in order to hear what is promised in the album's track list.

While I am a fan of the band's music, when I pay for services I am a customer not a spiritual confidant who is required to see the bigger picture. If a set promises special mixes of tracks, and those are absent from the set I am streaming, that is a mistake that MUST be rectified. That has soured my enjoyment of the set, and I feel I have been taken advantage of.