The Smiley Smile Message Board

Taken from BBBritain:

Launch Radio Networks has issued the following report
from Howie Edelson:

BRIAN WILSON SCALING THINGS BACK ON NEW STUDIO ALBUM

Brian Wilson is back in the studio and going full steam ahead for a new solo album, due out next year. In an exclusive to LAUNCH, Wilson revealed that in addition to the track he co-wrote with Burt Bacharach called "What Love Can Do," he's completed about a half dozen tracks, featuring most of the instruments and vocals performed by himself and touring band member Scott Bennett. Wilson added that on several songs horns have been overdubbed.

LAUNCH asked Wilson if he's heading into the studio every day: ["No. Not every day. Every two, three days. About four, four hours per session. I'm writing on a synthesizer. It's like a kick, it makes me inspired to write a melody."] SOUNDCUE (:10 OC: . . . write a melody)

The stripped down approach has been used by Wilson many times in the past, most notably on the Beach Boys' Wild Honey and The Beach Boys Love You albums, released in 1967 and 1977, respectively.

Wilson's mid-'90s work with the Paley Brothers' Andy Paley was the last time he utilized the "two-man-band" approach.

Among the songs that Wilson said will be included on the still-untitled album are "Oxygen To The Brain," "I'm Goin' Home," "A Message Man," "Wonderin' What You're Up To Now," a new untitled ballad sung partially in Spanish with both music and lyrics by Wilson, the Bacharach co-written "What Love Can Do," and a cover of Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Proud Mary."

Brian Wilson will be performing a special 40th anniversary performance of the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds album on November 1st in Los Angeles at UCLA's Royce Hall. It's his only remaining scheduled show this year.


So he does most of the singing by himself again....hm....

Interesting...

Well, Scott Bennett is a one-man band, he can play darn near everything you'd want instrumentally from drums to guitar to keys to harmonica to who knows what else. And he's a VERY good vocalist. And the "No Wrong Notes In Heaven" collaboration with BW on Scott's "Dotted Line" CD is quite good.

But...

I just am afraid of the vocals. At first blush it seems it could easily be too much Brian. But maybe there are other bandmembers doing vocals as well, that would be a real plus.

Frankly, I really like the sound of this. This sounds like the most BRIAN project that Brian's worked on in a long time. It sounds like he's large and in charge on this 'un, and the stripped down approach really appeals.

I dig the song titles too: "Oxygen To The Brain?" Sweet.

And "Proud Mary" *FINALLY* resurges! That oughta make AGD have fits, but I'm ecstatic.

I hope it's more like Wild Honey than The Beach Boys Love You.

I hope the exact reverse.

Wonder if it'll have 'It's Not Easy Being Me' on it?

I like the sound of it, I love the Paley sessions, I want more Brian being hands on. I like 'Goin home' assuming thats the one from then. 'Wondering...' is a title mentioned in the Tim White book, I think. I can live without Proud Mary, but at least we get the Shortenin bread riff again!
I think if Brian sings well I can live with it, personally (not a popular opinion) the BW band vocals get on my nerves a bit after a while.

I was hoping that Brian would use other vocalists to round out the vocal blend.  Can Scott Bennett sing falsetto?  Why not bring in Mike Love to put that bottom down, and bring Al Jardine in (on a different day, if necessary...no problem) to further aid in getting that Beach Boys sound.  I'll buy it just to hear the Wilson/Bacharach (or is it Bacharach/Wilson?) tune.  

I'm very worried about the inclusion of Proud Mary. What the heck's Brian going to do once that's in the public domain? There'll be no more reason to continue...

Well, watching the game, having a bud...

I want Darian on this release, DARIAN RULES FOREVER!

Yes, but not as well as Jeff or Probyn Gregory (or Taylor).  So maybe we'll hear Jeffrey on there too - assuming there are falsetto parts to be sung.

I think Lee mentioned that Darian is on a years contract with Disney, writing soundtrack stuff.

Yes!  Brian singing a song in spanish!  One can only hope for "Featuring: Special Guest, Esteban."

I doubt that Darian's contract doesn't allow him to work with any other artist, if he's only doing incidental music then there certainly wouldn't be a problem, and since the 'Mints tend to bust the studio out in a week, there is no way he couldn't find time to record some vocals, I'm sure between Brian Wilson and Disney he can afford a plane ticket to wherever Brian is recording.  And also, I think it's time for a new Wondermints record, Mind If We Make Love to You has been playing for 4 years, I need more 'Mints!

F*CK YES!!!

That's about the best news I've heard in a while! I think the stripped-down approach is a great thing. I hope for something in the spirit of "Friends". I mean, I love his last records, but he tried very hard to copy a style that he is famous for (wall of sound). This one sounds like something new, original.

"I'm writing on a synthesizer"; "Oxygen To The Brain"; "sung in spanish"... The whole project sounds much more experimental to me than his last albums. It sounds like he does what he wants to do, not what would be commercial.... God I can't wait to hear something of it.

It somehow doesn't matter to me this time if the vocals are rough, or un-perfect, as long as he sings with FEELING.

Get in the studio, get it recorded and get out.  Do it once, with FEELING.  Skip the multitracked BW vocals. 

This sounds extremley promising. I just hope he uses real instruments, instead of synth sounds, and his voice is in great shape.

Well, why not? I could live with some Love You-eccentricity.

Heh, I don't care if he uses real instruments or not, only thing that matters is that he is genuinly interested in the recordings and makes them as perfect as he can, based on his own current preferences and not someone elses or someones elses expectations.

And I still think he can sing a nice falsetto, if he really tries to perfect it when recording. The falsetto on surfs up (a childrens sooong) I think is totally fine. I still prefer a later-day brian falsetto to someone elses.

For an example of how it might sound, check out "Walking Down The Path Of Life," which I believe was ALSO cut with basically Brian and Scotty.

I think that song is one of the most interesting things he's done in a while. It at least has a measure of creativity and passion and he sounds very engaged, and its a lovely melody.

To me, Brian is way past the point where he has to proof anything anymore to anyone. I'm just happy that he is having fun recording some new music. Especially in way that HE wants to record it, not how some Joe Thomas-guy wants it.

I truly doubt that this is going to be an "experimental" album by any means, yet it still could turn out to be the most honest and inspired recording of his entire solo career. But then, that's pretty much what everybody's waiting for almost anytime a new BW record is being announced, isn't it?

Can't wait. :)

If he's going to do some truly stripped-down music like Anna Lee, The Healer, now that whole project might turn out to be fantastic. Kind of glad he's going to work with Bennett.

I agree, I like the song - but don't forget the voice on top was Taylor Mills.

They say that Brian's back, I never knew that he was gone...   

Ok, ok, sorry, I lost my mind.  :-D

Recording a new album: GOOD
MultiBrian backing vocals: BAD

A whole song based on the "Shortenin' Bread" riff ?  My idea of heaven !  8)

But...

But...

Brian doing most of the vocals ? Er...

Two, three songs nigh on 20 years old ("Wondering..." and I'm thinking "Oxygen..." might well be "Chain reaction...") ? Errrrrrrrrr...

Question - do they have a label for this ?

And Taylor, and Nelson.

I like "Path", but that same session also produced the latest and totally insipid version of "Spirit Of Rock & Roll".

Why might you think that?

"I'm Goin' Home" is, according to Toby, a Paley sessions track, too, so that one's old as well.

I'm not a fan of "stack o' Brian" either -- or that is, I'm a fan when its DONE well, as it was on the first solo album and on Wilson/Paley, but not when its NOT done well, as in several recent attempts.

Oh Andrew, you're such a cynic!  :-D

I prefer to regard myself as... a realist.  :woot

I hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst.

Except for GIOMH - nothing prepared me for how bad that puppy was. And is.

Unless a synth is in good use, I don't mind it, hence Love You (which I do enjoy listening to). Just, to me as being a musician, I like to hear the real thing, and not an imitation. I can understand synths used during live shows, because it's "cheaper" then paying musicians if you need more than five instruments (not including bass, guitar, drums the usual live instruments). But, on a record, give me musicians anyday. But, to each his own.

Oh g-d, no! Please no PROUD MARY! I hate his version on bootleg and am afraid
the new version will end up being very close to that! No covers, Brian. Do 100% originals! (Wishful thinking, eh?)

Regards,
Cal
:)

I seem to recall reading/hearing that Brian (or his management) had stated once that the Paley sessions were only considered "demos" for use in securing a deal. Was that the actual case?

Brian also stated to me that Mark Linett was not engineering the project.

I may be in the minority, but I *love* Brian's Paley-era version of "Proud Mary." Said it before, say it again: the thing flat-out rocks. It has a heavy, driving feel, the verses pound and then the chorus absolutely SLAMS. Its my favorite version of that song in general -- yeah, ahead of CCR *and* Ike and Tina, and I do not say that lightly.

Oughta be a Beach Boys' record :'(

I'm really interested in this--of course--but while I appreciate the smaller (less intimidating?) scale from a basic tracks perspective, I really would have preferred an ensemble vocal approach. I've said often that I wish he'd use his current band the way he did the Beach Boys, not only using them for backing vocals but to dole out leads to. This, one assumes, means that won't happen.

Are you ill, gubb'ner?

Well the Paley session versions of 'Saturday morming...' and 'Soul searchin' are the ones that ended up on GIOMH (the title track should have been from that too). Personally I think the Paley sessions backing tracks are great and when put all together are really cohesive. 'Some sweet Day' should be resurrected!

I agree with that, for the most part. Some Sweet Day and Marianne are, to me, the style of thing that would have made the "rock n roll album" (so often discussed for the past eternity or two) fantastic--that style is great for Brian, and those recordings were really cool.

As for what we'll get...we'll see. I just hope Brian sings on key...or even sort of on key. (PLEASE bring in a few others to help, Brian...or at least TRY when you sing.)

What are you talking about?

i will believe it only when i hold the new album in my hands......

Two words:

WHERE'S FOSKETT? ???

I'm for one really looking forward to this; but hey I'm an optimist.

Re: Album release: - Brian had a 2 album deal with Clive Davies didn't he? The Xmas LP was the first.

 ;D

I'm really hyped up about this album. That said...why isn't Mark engineering?

Is it possible that Brian is acting to lower the expectations all around? No big studio, no major, expensive sessions booked, no large groups of musicians to manage (or not manage, as the case may be), etc. Maybe the whole thing is just a way to relax and record with a friend he's comfortable with--and inexpensively, at that. Could be, couldn't it?

Can I be honest? THIS is the album I've been waiting for Brian to make. If it really is pure unadulterated and motivated Brian, we're in for a treat.

What's wrong with Brian doing all the vocals himself? I love OCA, but I love LY as well and I'll take anything that comes out in the end. :3d

Billy, whatever Brian decides to put out I'll probably one of the first in line.  I would love to hear a finished version of "Proud Mary" once and for all.  I'd also like to hear a finished "It's Not Easy Being Me" too.

I assume you've heard GIOMH? We all love him, but his voice has really, really deteriorated, and unless he's really into it (and possibly has someone driving him to do a great job), Brian-only vox are terrifying.

Well, my initial thoughts I think tip my hand as to what kind of fan I am.

When I clicked on the board, I saw from the main page something about 'new brian albu..." or something, and about broke my finger trying to get to this post. 

It sounds incredibly exciting, i'll definately be buying a copy the day it comes out, and I really don't care what he does, I'm probably going to enjoy it.  The stuff like him singing in spanish, and him and Scotty Bennett recording the album alone is fabulous news, GO BRIAN!!!!

So, next Year means January 1st, right?

It has more to do with how many times they were tracked on GIOMH than it did the quality of his voice. Heck, even Carl's voice sounds kinda bad on the unreleased (GV box set) quadruple-tracked GOK...and that's just a lead vocal.

Most definitely. Also, it sounded like many of the leads were half-assed (Brian not even trying, mistakes left in). He sounded much better on the Christmas album.

Besides, even if Brian is doing all the backups (doubt it, with Scott there), there probably won't be as many of them.

edit

wait...he said the vocals/instruments would be played by himself AND Scott. Instruments AND VOCALS.

God,I wonder what this will SOUND like.  I guess this must be the so-called "rock and roll" album...maybe the music itself may not rock hard (or it might), but the DIY attitude is very punk.

And very McCartney!

McCartney - That's what I thought when I first read the news. Chaos & Creation from Brian's Backyard.
Yes, yes, yes, the vocals on GIOMH weren't exquisite, but the man did some touching lead vocals since then and also highly praised bv for Neil Diamond. He can do it, he's Brian Wilson. And even if the performances are bad, what I don't think will be the case, there are always great songs on BW releases.
The Paley stuff is great and I too hope "Some Sweet Day" will see the light of the day sometime, also "It's Not Easy Being Me", great great songs. I'm excited and even a bit surprised. I prefer Brian doing as much as possible alone, because he's the songs.

If Brian gives us anything, we are truly lucky. I know some of the younger members of the board might not want to hear this again (quit living in the past, gramps) but we are so lucky to still have Brian. EVERY offering he has given us has moments and tunes that just add to our enjoyment of life.

Brian Wilson:
Love And Mercy (one of Brian's best tunes ever!)
NightTime
Melt Away
Rio Grande (worth the whole LP)

I Just wasn't Made For These Times:
ALL OF IT.

Imagination:
Your Imagination
She Said That She Needs Me
South American (single mix!!!)
Lay Down Burden
Happy Days

Live @ The Roxy, PS Live, BWPS:
We never thought we'd have any of these! All wonderful!

Getting In Over My Head:
Soul Searching
Getting In Over My Head
City Blues
Desert Drive
Saturday Morning In The City

Christmas:
Little Saint Nick


And all the single tracks (This Song Wants To Sleep With You, Everything I Need, This Isn't Love & Orange crate Art).

We've had more than we ever thought. So if this new CD has 4-5 great tunes, we are blessed again!

Bob F.

Me too

New Brian album? Yeah, and this is an accurate depiction of Mike Love: :afro

I´m very excited about it, I´m sure it gonna be a great Album!
First of all I thought, that Brian is goin to do the whole Album with David Pack and Burt Bacharach but now it seem that he only wrote 1 Song with Burt.
So he´s working on 7 Songs, hope that he will wrote a few new songs...

Luther: Have you heard the XMas album? Brian does a magnificent job there (and that's only him and Foskett doing vox on "O Holy Night"). If he lets Scott bennett sing along, I think all will be well.

I think a problem on GIOMH was that some of the overproduced background vocals were mixed to loud, so they overblended even the lead-voice.
I really hope this will be a very Brian album like Love You and WH. From what is said in the announcement, it sounds very promising

I was going to selectively quote a couple of bits but its well worth reading the whole lot again!! Spot on. Throw in some of the best concerts anyone will ever see (February 20th, 2004, anyone?).

and there's not much wrong with Brian's vocals on BWPS or the Christmas album, so I don't know why GIOMH is suddenly the benchmark.

As "petsite" said

                                 "If Brian gives us anything, we are truly lucky".

Am I really the only one that cringes at the idea of Brian singing in Spanish with that slurred voice of his?  It just sounds like an awful idea.

Yes. I think his voice was OK on SMILE, the Christmas Album, Love And Mercy (Tsunami), The Path Of Life and Delirious Love.

I think that when he sang "Margueritas" it sounded very good... :lol

And I thought his vocals on "The Spirit Of Rock 'n' Roll" were fine too.

I think we shoul be used by now to the fact that what Brian says while recording and promoting a new CD is usually different than what he says one year after its release.

Regarding Brian's vocals: I think it's important to point out that BWPS and the Xmas album featured a bit more digital trickery (i.e. autotune) than GIOMH. In fact, I tend to think GIOMH had no autotuning used at all (with the possible exception of the title track backing vocals - recorded during the Joe Thomas era?) and I think most of it still sounds pretty good. Of course, Brian has also improved as a singer since the GIOMH sessions and with a little digital assistance, his vocals have sounded great on all the recent releases. How is it, by the way, that Brian can sound so horrible on "Love You", but that album is still revered? While there's been ups-and-downs, I think all of Brian's released vocals over the last 30 years have been better than that mid-70s nadir.

This ALWAYS comes up - I want to know how you KNOW FOR SURE that autotune was used? The source of your information please?

You're right Jim and please understand I didn't mean this as an attack. There is no evidence beyond what my ears tell me (although I vaguely remember Brian saying in an interview recently that he has no problem using digital technology to make vocals sound better). Brian's vocals on BWPS, and to a greater extent on the Xmas album, have that slightly processed sound that comes with autotuning. Mind you I think Brian requires less digital manipulation than a lot of top ten performers out there these days (check out Panic! At The Disco or almost any other big selling "alternative" rock band for extreme use of autotune). Actually, I don't know that Brian "requires" digital manipulation; I've thought his live vocals have sounded fantastic over the last couple of years. But my ears tell me that his vocals have been sweetened somewhat on BWPS and the Xmas album, a sense that I don't get from the GIOMH album. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do a lot of voice-over narration in my job and I'm constantly "comping" takes together and manipulating my voice to sound better. I still sound pretty good when I'm speaking in public, but I want my recorded voice to sound a little better. It's possible Brian feels the same way.

First, my apologies for the tone of my post - it was too harsh sounding for sure.

I too think Brian made the statement about making the vocals sound better, but that doesn't mean autotune. It may mean it's easier to get just the mix/levels/timing he wants, it's easier to review what's already recorded, etc. Remeber, there's a lot to ProTools besides autotune/pitch correction.

After watching BWPS a number of times, the "sweetening" appears to me to be a lot of doubling/tripling. I see Darian, Jeff, and Scott almost always contributing to Brian's leads. Not all 3 all the time, but it seemed that Brian rarely if ever sang/sings solo leads. In the Pet Sounds Live In London DVD I even saw Mike D'Amico doubling Brian (that's not a slam against Mike, he has a terrific voice, it was just surprising to see). This jives with what I've seen in the live shows I've attended too. Brian gets LOTS of help from his bandmates with leads.

On the Christmas album it seemed the leads Brian sang were well within his best range, and to me they sounded very natural and un-doctored. The band sounded magnificent, I still get chills when I hear the opening notes of WIRWFC! Then Brian's lead begins, and it's right in his "wheelhouse" vocally, so he can drive it out of the park as they say in baseball.

I also go back to the interview on Chicago's WXRT radio station where Jim and Bob both laughed when that idiot from the Chicago Sun-Times DeRogatis mentioned Brian said all the vocals were "tweaked" (which that fat a** DeRogatis assumed meant autotuned). Bob Lizik replied "Brian said that??" in a disbelieving laughing tone, and both he and Jim Hines started laughing. They said Darian would know for sure, but they weren't aware of any autotune use in BWPS.

My opinion - no autotune. Just a lot of help form the band's voices. They help Brian sound a lot better to my ears than Brian sounds when he doubles/triples himself. Shoot, I'd sound great with Jeff, Darian, and Scott helping me out!

So we'll see what the new CD brings. I honestly was hoping for a CD from BW and his great band, but it appears that's not the case.

Anyway Roger, I again apologize for the way I phrased my prior post.

No problem, Jim. I shouldn't have used the term "autotune" to cover everything ProTools does; in fact, I probably should have avoided the whole subject (although I figured someone would bring it up sooner or later). For me, I've heard Brian sing wonderfully in concert (although he can be inconsistent even within a single performance). On record, I want to hear the sound that Brian wants on there. If that requires some manipulation, so be it. It's really a non-issue and I dislike how that sort of thing is brought up to somehow prove that Brian is now incompetent as a performer.

As for the new album, it looks like Brian wants to continue in the stripped-down mode of his last few recordings. That's really the opposite of what the music business "machinery" would want from a Brian Wilson album and suggests that Brian may have chosen this direction for himself as opposed to being pushed into it. I'm excited.

Well, any new BW album is good news. This in particular sounds intriguing because he’s very hands on. I enjoy GIOMH, but it doesn’t feel like an album. It sounds like a bunch of outtakes that he was forced to record. His heart doesn’t sound in it.

Brian sang well on the Christmas album…or at least appears to. I’m not sure what trickery they use, if any. I mean, watch all those behind the scenes clips of the making of BWPS and you never see the man laying down a lead vocal. But I don’t care what they have to do, as long as it sounds good and professional. Bad mouth Joe Thomas all you want, but who doesn’t love that soaring vocal on “She Says That She Needs Me” and “Cry”?

During the 2005 Smile shows he seemed really in good form. He sang freely, even throwing in some free-stylin’ scat and was on key, at least when I saw him. He has missed keys though….his attempt at reaching high notes in “When I Grow Up” were painful to hear. But that’s live. He can have more control in the studio.

Synths? Sure! I don’t care. Whatever tools he needs to get the message across, fine. Love You was a masterpiece. I just hope Scott Bennett knows his role and let’s Brian do his thing.

We’re due for a good album. See, I think Brian is a one record per decade kind of guy. Love You, BW87, Paley/Imagination. The results were mixed on GIOMH, but maybe that’s because he wasn’t ready. It has to be when he feels the itch to scratch. Thus, it sounds like he’s coasting through GIOMH. I’ll bet he wasn’t even present when Darian led the band through the old Sweet Insanity tracks.

Spirit of Rock and Roll is one of his best songs. Unfortunately, it seems the magic can’t be recaptured. The Hallmark attempt was fine, but lost the momentum of the earlier attempts. Too sluggish. And I didn’t like Path of Life on the released version. It had more soul live, what with the sax and all. And it worked better at 70 seconds. But what do I know? I’m just the listener. I kind of hope he recuts it and does it more like he did live, but I guess it’s a done deal now. Just have to listen to the live version, I guess. “The First Time” hasn’t made it to the studio, has it? That’s a real gem. And his voice is great on it on the Roxy CD.

So I’m excited. The idea of him being more instrumental instrumentally (!) is a very promising thing.  But, you know, Brian Wilson projects do have a way of never appearing. You know how he is. Don’t be surprised if we have to find alternate routes to hear these songs 10 years from now.

They do on BWPS but it doesn't matter. Seriously, most of the difference in quality has to do with quantity. Little is changed by pitch-shifting or correcting. You know why Brian's vocal sounds so sweet on Windchimes? Because it's single-tracked. Same thing with the x-mas album...the single-tracked vocals sound a lot sweeter than multi-tracked leads.

I guess you're not ill after all.

Jason,

Your two recent posts in this thread  - what was the purpose of them?

If you are trying to provoke a fight you won't succeed. But I do wish you'd quit trying, and also knock off all the garbage you post over at one of the other forums about me. It's unnecessary and uncalled for. You've made your dislike for me public enough times that I'm sure everyone who cares knows where you stand.

Thank you.

First you say that (paraphrasing) you're worried about how Brian's vocals will sound on the new album. Then you berate and demand information from another fan because he insinuates, with some factual evidence, that Brian uses autotune on his vocals when he's solo. It's all over the 1988 album, only Paley admitted to it being on only one track. Read AGD's book.

You're confusing me.

 :) :-D ;D ::) >:D :afro :3d :angel: :police: :lol :hat ;) :p 8)

I am worried about how the vocals will turn out, that's correct. I think the vocals on WIRWFC, especially the new songs, are remarkable; and I believe one of the reasons is that the band was allowed to provide the BG vocals. Like many, I don't really want to hear vocals like much of GIOMH. And I really was hoping to hear more of the band, I think they are incredible.

As far as my reply to Roger's post, I asked him on what basis he came to the conclusion that autotune was used on BWPS and WIRWFC (nothing was said about BW88) since he didn't mention at all how he reached that point. He said it was his opinion, we then exchanged a couple notes about the topic. In one I mentioned my question came off as harsh when I didn't want it to be, so I apologized to him. There was no berating involved, although the tone of my question was too harsh.

As far as autotune/pitch corection is concerned, I would like to hear from someone who knows first hand (if that's possible) if it was used on BWPS and/or WIRWFC. Wrong second hand information has been posted too many times for me to trust it. I can't recall if it was here or another board, but at one time it was posted by someone who knew for sure that 2 guys in Brian's band had been fired. Of course there was no truth to that. So on the autotune thing I hope at some point someone will say that either they were there and knew it was or was not used or someone can say they spoke to a key player directly involved in the recording and Mark/Darian/Scott/Jeff (etc.) told them that it was or was not used. Just because it was used in the past doesn't mean it was still in use for BWPS and WIRWFC.

If you are still confused I don't know what else to tell you, sorry.

swish

I'm almost positive that I heard Brian say in an interview that he uses Autotune and that it's amazing it gets the vocals just right. 

Now with that said, I think he should use it to his hearts content... it's really a rediculous discussion.  Nothing done in the studio is honest.  It hardly ever has been since they started multitracking in the early 60's.  When Brian sings harmony with himself he's faking it with studio trickery.  You cannot sing in two voices at the same time, even if you are the god-like Brian Wilson.  When he adds reverb to his voice to make it have more resonance he's again cheating.  I love it.  Cheat on good Doctor. 

If you want to hear somebody do it in the studio the way they do it on stage, go get a Hank Williams CD.  If it's anything much newer than that, it was sweetened up in the studio and I say thank god!  Brian's whole genius is doing cool sh*t in the studio!  If you get some time, go get this song he did, "Good Vibrations" with the Beach Boys.  If you listen really carefully, you can tell that they're not even in the same room!  It's not even the same take!  He's singing in different voices! you get the picture, i'm just trying to make a point by stating the obvious. 

Just a notion...does it really matter if a little auto-pitch was used if it sounds good.  It's like putting make-up on an actor in a film role as far as I'm concerned.  If it's done correctly...you can't tell.  It's not like cheating on a test....it's making music.

I posted on top of Ron...sorry.

I'm glad someone agrees, though.  Even the actual recording being digital is fake.  It's just a bunch of 1's and 0's.  Think about it.  There's nothing to complain about, in the end, it sounds good (or doesn't!) and that's all that matters, not how they got there.  Even on stage these guys fake it.  Even using an amplifier on a guitar makes the sound much larger than it actually is... there's nothing honest about music, if your'e looking for that you will not find it.  If you're looking for something that sounds good, though, his name is Brian Wilson, and he's here for you. 

Well, don't forget most of CCR's stuff. They could replicate their studio-efforts almost to a t on stage.

Here's the thing though, and this is not a judgement, just my opinion.

In my mind, there is a difference between Autotune and the effects Ron describes.  In one case, say double-tracking, you have two Brians singing the same thing, which is impossible to do in real time, yes, but it's still Brian.  When you use something like Autotune, a computer program is analysing the pitch of somebodies voice, and when that person's voice does not fall within acceptable parameters, the computer comes up with it's own version of how the person would sound if they were singing within the parameter, and thus fundamentally altering the "human identity" of the voice.

And that can be cool, sometimes.  It can either do stuff like Cher, or it can be used as an effect to make things sound intentionally "too perfect", which is a very unusual sound.

But it makes me uncomfortable, because there's no reason a singer, unless they are completely tone-deaf, should not be able to hit pitches within their vocal range.  It just takes a little practice and concentration.  So when autotune is used not as an effect, but as a tool to make up for a lack of musicianship, I find myself somewhat philosophically opposed to it.

Of course, I've used pitch-correction software for pretty much the same thing...one of the songs I recorded had a little string quartet part, of which I played all the parts, and my intonation on violin left a little to be desired, so I tweaked the pitch in places to make the intervals a little less jarring.

That doesn't excuse my bad playing, and had I the resources, I would have hired professional string players.

 Yeah, if it sounds good it doesn't really matter, imo, but it can sound really bad. And in some cases, pitch-correction can suck the life right out of a sound, or even worse, not be exactly 'perfect'.

That's exactly what I think.

My feelings too. I don't agree that digital recording is fake bacause it's zeroes and ones as someone posted. Analog recording is just varying magnetic fields, so it's just as "fake". But I do agree 100% with your statement above.

I would hope that on a new album, Brian is composing songs that he can easily sing.  Obviously BWPS was a challange given that he wrote the parts when he was mid-20s and had a cherub voice.

I respectfully disagree.... music is essentially about sound, not how you get there.  Even when the BB's were standing on stage singing 4 or 5 part harmony, the cumalitive effect of the 4 or 5 voices acting together produced overtones and natural harmonic effects that weren't present in their individual voices, that's why quartets and such sound so great, because the harmonic effect adds tons to the music... so even then, your enjoyment of what's going on isn't necessarily an appreciation of what their true voices are capable of, you're enjoying what you're hearing, not what it took to get there.

I also don't see a difference in reverb and autotune.  Autotune bends a human voice up into what a computer estimates it should sound like if it was in a certain tone, and reverb adds echoes and harmonic notes lower or higher than the note the voice is making essentially doing the same thing autotune is doing.  Brian sped up the tape on Caroline, No.  Certainly that would be a primitive version of autotuneing (although more uniform and across the whole song, not a single note).... and everybody heralds the genius of the song.

I know I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine... but in my opinion, the studio is all about creating something pleasing to the ear... now maybe Brian may or may not do that with a song (it might sound horrible)... but I see no fault in him using autotune to make his voice sound the way he wants it to sound.  In the end, too, this isn't a guy using it as a crutch, he's using it to make an already great voice sound even better (if he uses it at all). 

Another point I'd like to make in relation to your comment on being philosophically opposed to an artist using autotune as a tool instead of an effect is that we're talking about one of the greatest singers of all time.  If it were Britney Spears or whatever, and she'd never sang a note in tune in her life, and was totally propped up by Autotune in the studios... well then we'd have a right to question her artistic integrity (not that anybody's neccessarily questioning Brian's).  Brian Wilson has proven and shown for years and decades that he's a great singer (at times) and for a certain period in the 60's he had a voice that was pretty much inimitable, even by his brother (also possessing an incredible voice).  By all accounts, Brian Wilson at one time was an incredible if not amazing singer.  If he in his later years chooses to use autotune on his voice, I have to give him a certain bit of a 'players pass' since he's already proven his voice beyond what most other singers have, 40 years ago. 


Jim: the point about the 1's and 0's is that we're in a discussion about whether Brian's 'faking it' using autotune in the studio.  The point is that any musical recording can be considered fake and not an accurate sonic performance but rather a representation, by a computer, of what the computer thinks Brian sounds like.  Of course that's rediculous to slight anyone for making a digital recording, but I feel it's also rediculous to slight someone for using a tool (autotune) to make their voice sound how they want it to sound (in tune!).  It's a gamble Brian takes.... if you don't like the sound and think it sounds synthetic, well then he's lost some respect and appreciation just like he would if he sang the song off key.  However, if you're like me and think it sounds alright autotuned, then he won the gamble and the song is a success.  All of this is about him trying to present the most pallatable sound to the listening audience, and he uses the tools available to him. 

I do remember there being a bit of embracement coming out of the Wilson camp (i.e. Melinda) at the time after Brian accidentally let-slip that his vox had been autotuned for Smile04. He thought it was great that you could do that!

The thing is, Brian just can't hit the notes like he used to. GIOMH had so many bum notes on it that it was embarrassing, but it was a case, I guess, of people saying 'well, lets just let him do his own thing, and maybe we'll get a Love You or something...' Autotune (and its not the only plug-in that can do pitch-correction, but has become the industry standard) can sound virtually transparent if used correctly. If someone is just a few cents off the correction is barely noticeable.

On Smile04 I’d say it was pretty obvious that Autotune was used just by listening to Brian's voice (you can hear various artefacts, and the life is squeezed out of it hear and there). There were loads of FX applied on mixing (compression, autotune etc.) to get his voice up to scratch, and that's OK, 'cos it wasn't going to cut it on its own.

WIRWFC had his vocals sounding great, but I’d bet my entire home studio on the likelihood of him being autotuned by whoever did the mix.

We shouldn't begrudge Brian the facilities available that allow him to deliver a more musical product. Integrity doesn't have much to do with it, as the end product really should sound the best it can, and Brian, bless him, doesn’t have the ability to knock out the performances of yesteryear.

My two cents worth - Brian's best vocal of recent vintage, by several miles, was his contribution to "Grief Never Grows Old". Not shouting, firmly within his range, warm, slightly plaintive and hugely affecting. And, above all, great.

As for the 'new' album (which I'm sure will be about 50% old, assuming it ever happens), I'm concerned that without Darian there to act as [koff] 'musical secretary', the results will be, um, mixed.

PS: nice to see someone pick up of my comment re: the synclavier in "One For The Boys"  8)

If this project is something Brian really wants to do...then it could be really good.


As for Autotune, I am sure we can all hear that its used on BWPS in a few places....I have no problems with it being used to correct the occasional fluff but I would hope that Brian's new songs are written to largely fall within his current range.

Another really good recent Brian vocal is "You've Touched Me"...provided you ignore the intro, of course.  In the body of the song, Brian sounds very relaxed and natural, a nice, warm vocal.  If only he'd been on pitch in the intro...

I really enjoyed that song from GIOMH. I could do without the intro like you said. The backing track is great too, imo.

You know I think the 1995 version of GIOMH is the best modern Brian vocal by a large measure. I have never heard him sound so close to his unsulled voice in any other track post 74. How I wish he could have or would have always sounded like this.

I think his best recent vocal is, as Andrew or somebody mentioned above, the backing vocals on "Delerious Love." The version he appears on whips the version he doesn't, hands down. His contributions MAKE the song, already great, way way better.

He sounds super engaged, and ON.

AGD (or anyone...) Where does "Grief Never Grows Old" appear? And "Delerious Love" the same - my memory fails me... Does anyone have info/link?

 :kiss

The BW version of "Delerious Love" is on the digipak version of 12 Songs - the one with 14 tracks.  ::)

"GNGO", to my knowledge, was only ever released as a CD single.

Thankyou Andrew, for your succinct reply.   :angel:

Delirious Love (live):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-P5udAAh8


Grief Never Grows Old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX-l9XEHNm8

Brian's vocal on Neil's song is also on the vinyl LP as a bonus cut.

After watching DL a couple of times I can say that it seriously KICKS ASS. It's one of these songs that will stick in your for days and in this case, it's a GREAT thing. Brian really seems to enjoy this performance. His "I can feel it!" at the beginning of the bridge is fantastic.

Man, Brian sounds incredible on that live version.  I'll bet he was having daydreams of when he wasn't the whole show and could sit back and sing harmony on things like "Little Deuce Coupe".  Wow, this is a good song. 

I love his background parts on "Grief Never Grows Old", I assume that's him.  Nobody else quite "oooooooooooooooooohhhh" 's like that. 

Think there's a goodly chunk of Foskett and a few others in there too. I've never heard it stated he did anything other than his lead. 'Course, that doesn't mean he didn't.

The background sounds more like Jeff than Brian to me. At least more like Jeff than modern-day Brian.

By the way, I hadn't heard that song before--Grief Never... I must say, I think it's atrocious. I know it's for a good cause, but that song is awful. Brian's singing is fine, but it was wasted on that song.

Well, that's one of the reasons Bruce gave for not singing on it. I kinda like it, but to each his own..

Any mention of his collaboration with the Lovester on the new album?

Yeah, I don't really think it's a good song either.  I definately hear Jeff in there but it sounds like the Jeff/Brian combo to me, I could be wrong though.  Brian's bit is o.k. but I can't imagine ever listening to that song again.

Delirious love, though, wow!

Lookit how much Brian is enjoying singing background on "Delerious Love!" He nails it -- and he's totally effortless. Plus: Jeff looks SO SLIM its frightening. I was like: who's that slim drink of water next to Brian? sh*t -- ITS JEFF!!

"Grief Never Grows Old" is a typical charity-song. I mean, how can it not suck, if like 47 singer have to sing a 3 or 4-minute song? Everyone gets three words to sing, then passes over to the next. It HAS to suck.

I liked "We are the world", though.  This one is just palid compared to that.  Is palid a word? 

I think you mean "pallid". I hated "We Are The World"; the only one that's true quality is the "original" charity song "Bangladesh" by George Harrison. Apart from that one, "Do They Know It's Christmas?" slightly redeems itself for its use of irony and uncomfortable honesty ("Thank God tonight it's them instead of you"). "Grief Never Grows Old" isn't too horrendous...until that guitar solo, that is!

I'm pretty excited by this news! I'm one of the few that loves GIØMH unreservedly. I am willing to admit that it is the lowest-energy album Brian has done, but I see it as a sort-of solo Smiley Smile. An aquired taste, but more fulfilling with each listen. Yes there are some bum notes on it, but as a warts-n-all production it's one of the best, IMO.

This one may have a lot in common with that one -- a mixture of old and new compostitions, mostly Bri on vocals, etc. What will set this one apart, I'll predict, is the energy level. Post-BWPS Brian is rocking on everything he has come into contact with since those halycon days of 2004.

I DO wish Brian would make better use of his band. But, we'll get to hear them on the live versions!!!

(One note about Autotune and it's useage by Brian -- I'm not hearing the massive use of it that others are claiming to hear. My feeling is that it might be used on a note or two here and there, but it doesn't have to automatically process an entire track. That function can be disabled, allowing the user to just go for single notes. As we know from GIOMH, Brian isnt off all over the place, just flatting occasionally. Processing a whole track just to fix a couple of wonky notes would be overkill, and unneccessary.)

By the way, on Chuck Kelly's luxuriamusic show yesterday, Nelson was a guest. He said something to the effect that "Brian is just doing demos on his own and along with Scott. I don't know of any actual recording going on for an album with the band soon." I thought that was interesting. Now, maybe Nelson just doesn't know about it, but I wonder if all this talk of a new "album" is really just demos...

Last time I send you any of my project's Luther :-) ;-) ;-)

I agree, it's a rubbish song

Want to know the funny part? I liked that disc because it had some songs I hadn't heard before (like the Ronstadt song)! Apparently, I had either blocked it from my mind completely or, more likely, saw it in the running order and skipped it, going with my impeccable instincts...

I wonder if there are any updates...

I heard its a sequel of sorts to 'Love You' with a tentative title 'Brian Still Loves You'.

Let me first say that I'm impressed by how someone managed to seek out an old post of mine on the subject of Autotune from way back when, and post it here (page 10), with my avatar and username, as if it was a new one! Nothing to do with me, I promise...!

Not quite sure whether to feel violated because someone has adopted my Smileysmile.net identity or flattered because they thought I was worth repeating...

I'd be intereted to hear what you Mods have to say...

But back to the actual subject at hand, I'm thrilled that Brian is working again and will of course be there at the counter with my sweaty cash the moment the thing is released (if indeed it is...).

I do hope that there isn't too much overdubbing of his voice, as it just isn't what it was and a big blanket of Brian is just too much sometimes. If he can get it together to record another album it may well end up being his last, so lets hope its a good one!

Regards Autotune (and I agree with everything I said above - thanks again to the strange quirk that posted my old post!), it is a particular plugin produced by a company called Antares, and not a generic process.

BWPS has Autotune/pitch correction all over it, and GIOMH quite clearly doesn't, to its own detriment. WIRWFC is, in my opinion, also pitch corrected, but that is a good thing, as the software was obviously used by someone who knew how to use it relatively subtly. Brian just can't hit the notes, for whatever reason, like he used to, so if he and Scotty have any sense they use it on the new one.

Autotune isn't evil, and it isn't 'faking it', its just a device to help out. Check it out here: http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune5.shtml (http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune5.shtml)

That's it!

BJ

WTF?! I'll look into it, but it happened so long ago.

I'll do my best.

I think WIRWFC does have autotune, but I don't think it was as necessary as before. I think he actually did a better job of singing than on Imagination, GIOMH, or indeed BWPS.

Thanks!

I also think you're right about the singing on WIRWFC, but, its weird how he sometimes manages to bring off something reasonable and sometimes not. I agree with AGD about his performance of the Grief Never Grows Old charity single, which was a touching performance and a touching production (listen to how there's a very subtle sleigh bell that comes in when he starts to sing, almost as if it were a compliment to BW from the producers...). Maybe its a matter of him singing the right material, which may or may not auger well for the new album...

What ever happened to this? Did it become TLOS or is this a different project?

I'm pretty sure most of it became TLOS... but none of this stuff is ever concrete, an album is simply a collection of songs and Brian likely has hundreds of unreleased songs.... so I suppose he could release another album soon if he wanted to.  When they were talking about this "rock and roll" album, they soon after mentioned that Brian was recording demos for it with Scott... so those demos probably became TLOS, and Brian also mentioned a few songs that were going to be on it, namely Proud Mary and "I'm afraid of the Beatleman" or something to that effect about Paul McCartney! So those two weren't on TLOS of course although I thing "Going Home" has elements of Brian's Proud Mary (as do many other songs he's released). 

Some of the songs named in this report are TLOS: Oxygen to the Brain, Goin Home and I believe that one of the others became Good Kind of Love, according to ... someone. AGD? I forget. (Sorry.) But of course there are still plenty of songs, so maybe the TLOS album will include bonus tracks or an EP or something.

(A guy can hope.)

Autotune? Why an issue? It's obvious that Brian has been using some kind of aural enhancement on his voice since at least the late 1980s. Listen to the all too brittle sound of the Sweet Insanity tracks. Listen to the backgrounds on self titled. The tracks are all aurally sweetened to include only the highest frequencies. Using Autotune is only another step in that direction.
 

A lot of people on this board consider using any digital assistance the equivalent of eating children.

Didn't Stephen Desper say that as far back as the late 60s/early 70s, Brian was speeding up his some of his vocals to make them a smidge higher (I'm not talking about Caroline No, but about songs where he was having trouble hitting the notes even then). Correct me if I'm wrong.

A lot of singers use autotune. Does McCartney? No idea, but I'd guess yes. It's like how models use airbrushing, I guess, and to a lesser extent how athletes use steroids.

But Brian does still sing live, so I don't think he's trying to hide anything.

You're right about Desper's comment. And as some people are probably sick of hearing me say, I don't think it matters at all. A studio album isn't the same thing as a live show, and if it were supposed to be, virtually everyone has been "cheating' for the entire history of rock. (In fact, jazz, too. I just read the liners to a Monk & Coltrane album that notes that different takes were spliced to fix a post-solo train wreck (not 'Trane wreck...no puns here) on an otherwise good take. And that would've been circa '57.

Again like I've said a million times too, if you throw out autotune you've got to throw out reverb and chorus effects and double tracking lead vocals and blah blah blah all for the same exact reason.  Insincere replication of somebody's actual singing voice.  So for instance when Brian's singing the entire track on "Love and Mercy", you have to turn the radio off because tha'ts impossible for him to sing live.  It's just a rediculous argument to say Autotune is cancer or whatever. 

A new Brian Wilson album is always good news! So - are they going for a one-two release plan in 2008 (like in 2004)
with the 'regular' album first  and the the big song cycle  following  later that year? 'That Lucky Old Sun' as  presen-
ted live last year is among brian's finest pieces of works ever and his best in decades - and should be kept as an entity!
(allowing modifications and bonus tracks - sure, but without losing its integrity altogether please). So when he claims in
the new interview that he IS recording TLOS soon, does that mean that they are working on two albums simultaneously?
Just wondering...

Just found this (from the blueboard).TLOS could be recorded as soon as next month (mid january 2008)?:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07360/844253-42.stm

Most of the 'album' that Brian & Scotty were working on in 2006 was utilised for "TLOS" (and according to Scotty they were only cutting demos anyway). I sincerely doubt that there is another 'new' album - but iffn there is I hope it's a helluva lot better than GIOMH. (Bear in mind that GIOMH was all ready for release before BWPS was premiered and was, allegedly, part of the studio BWPS package].

Andrew, that last part intrigues me, since GIOMH and BWPS were released by two different labels (at least the CD editions were...granted, the vinyl versions were both on Rhino...and granted, both Rhino and Nonesuch were distributied by Warners...but still, two different labels...)

I don't think there is another album besides That Lucky Old Sun.  This thread was started in September of 2006, and as someone already said, most of the song titles mentioned found their way into TLOS, in one way or another.  Brian did mention a new song, "Love Is Just A Song", being recently recorded, but who knows if that's another demo.  The Carl tribute was something done in one day, and as good as Brian's vocals are, it's really not releaseable as is.  I just hope Brian's vocal sweetness, however it's achieved, is present on the TLOS recording. 

I would think they'd use the "demo" vocals for "Midnight's Another Day" and "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl"...those vocals are of a very high quality, and I really can't imagine Brian doing a better job these days.

I can't agree on the latter--at least unless they bury him in the mix in favor of the others on the higher parts, on which he sounds like garbage.

Really?  I thought he sounded really good on the high parts in that one.  Although I do admit that having the band doing the harmonies would probably sound even better.

I think Brian sounds great on the "Forever... Surfer Girl" demo. It's my least favorite TLOS song, but he sounds great on it.