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Title: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 21, 2020, 06:52:46 PM I was watching the Nashville Sounds video last night (aka Stars and Stripes) and noticed that Carl is not involved in a lot of the background vocal sessions. How much of the album was he actually a part of?
Strange time in their career. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: kennyhasbeenfound on August 21, 2020, 07:55:17 PM I can't answer your question, but yes, it was a strange time. I remember reading an EW article about the Baywatch Nights song (still have it somewhere) with Brian talking about how great it was, and how they were going to add Carl's guitar next. I was so pumped. Then nothing, and suddenly they are on late night singing backup to a country singer. I made my college roommates watch it, and their reaction was, "Why did they sell out?" Leave it to them to keep you guessing.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 21, 2020, 10:46:20 PM I can't answer your question, but yes, it was a strange time. I remember reading an EW article about the Baywatch Nights song (still have it somewhere) with Brian talking about how great it was, and how they were going to add Carl's guitar next. I was so pumped. Then nothing, and suddenly they are on late night singing backup to a country singer. I made my college roommates watch it, and their reaction was, "Why did they sell out?" Leave it to them to keep you guessing. Yeah, very disappointing. I do like Willie Nelson singing "Warmth of the Sun"; "Caroline, No" with Timothy B. is nice; but getting this after being promised NEW BB's material...a head scratcher. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: All Summer Long on August 22, 2020, 09:43:33 AM The liner notes say that Carl sang on everything except “Long Tall Texan.”
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Wirestone on August 22, 2020, 11:22:48 AM I was watching the Nashville Sounds video last night (aka Stars and Stripes) and noticed that Carl is not involved in a lot of the background vocal sessions. How much of the album was he actually a part of? Strange time in their career. That is, he wasn't filmed singing during backing vocal sessions. My understanding is that for documentaries of this sort, the footage of folks recording is almost always staged. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Tony S on August 22, 2020, 01:31:55 PM Funny I always thought that with the exception of Carl most of the background vocals were non distinguishable amongst the boys themselves. Carl's voice is always very distinguishable on the songs he sings on.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: sixtiesstereo on August 23, 2020, 06:05:03 AM I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd.
I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is there, but no Carl. But Kathy is sensational.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE) Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Tony S on August 23, 2020, 06:10:28 AM I can hear music was a highlight for me along with Willy's warmth of the Sun. But I think the defining moment of this collection was the tag on Caroline no. In my opinion that was the best on the album
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: sixtiesstereo on August 23, 2020, 06:40:53 AM Plus, I just noticed the entire hour long program is actually on youtube. I hadn't seen it since
it originally aired, and watching it, it's actually better than I remembered. Plus, Carl IS on a lot of the sessions, which surprised me. Especially on "Don't Worry Baby" with Lorrie Morgan. https://youtu.be/aReNif20hcg (https://youtu.be/aReNif20hcg) Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: joe_blow on August 23, 2020, 09:39:22 AM "Your memory is getting senile!" No -yours is!
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 23, 2020, 01:15:26 PM I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd. Yeah, that was a highlight, and I had never heard Kathy before. I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is there, but no Carl. But Kathy is sensational.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE) And agree with the post above that a lot of this stuff was probably staged. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Pretty Funky on August 23, 2020, 05:22:26 PM I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd. I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is there, but no Carl. But Kathy is sensational.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE) Not definitive evidence but is that Carl at 1.19 and 1.26 of the clip singing the high part solo? This link lists the credits and his name is mentioned as being on the vocals. https://www.lyrics007.com/lyrics/the-beach-boys-feat-kathy-troccoli-i-can-hear-music/TnpBMU9ESXc= Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 24, 2020, 01:35:17 AM I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd. Yeah, that was a highlight, and I had never heard Kathy before. I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is there, but no Carl. But Kathy is sensational.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE) And agree with the post above that a lot of this stuff was probably staged. These things usually are staged. No one wants a camera in the studio while doing the actual recording. Too much distraction, possible noises etc. The control room is a different thing, so the shots of Brian and Joe Thomas at the board could very well come from the sessions. It's also not unlikely that the Boys recorded parts of their vocals separately. Tammy Wynette's "In my room" was released with only Brian doing a couple of bakgrounds while the Nashville Sounds DVD has the Beach Boys' voices. My guess is that Brian recorded his parts first and then had the rest of the boys sing their's. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: HeyJude on August 24, 2020, 01:02:34 PM I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session.
I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc. It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 24, 2020, 05:59:09 PM I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session. Yes, I would think the footage with Nelson is legit - like where Mike is trying to help him with the phrasing. That's not the kind of thing they would just make up. I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc. It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage. The video wouldn't be anything special, except now, looking back, knowing that Carl would be gone shortly after. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 25, 2020, 09:50:43 AM I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session. Yes, I would think the footage with Nelson is legit - like where Mike is trying to help him with the phrasing. That's not the kind of thing they would just make up. I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc. It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage. The video wouldn't be anything special, except now, looking back, knowing that Carl would be gone shortly after. Yes, probably at the sessions, but not while the actual recording happened. If I'm not mistaken, Willie's performance was the very first one and at that point a album concept didn't even exist. That may also be a reason why Willie and the Boys were recording at a different studio than seemingly all the other tracks. You can see Brian standing besides Willie, while he sings and watches over to Brian for his opinion. That's one of my favorite scenes. (Willie and Brian also performed it at Farm Aid) Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: c-man on August 26, 2020, 05:59:32 AM Yeah, the session with Willie was the first, and I believe it was held at his own studio in Texas.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 26, 2020, 07:54:06 AM For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal. Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away). Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too. Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr. So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners. Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names. Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans. In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun". The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on. Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums. James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music". So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest. :) Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Matt H on August 26, 2020, 09:55:06 AM For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal. Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away). Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too. Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr. So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners. Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names. Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans. In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun". The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on. Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums. James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music". So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest. :) I would like to know what happened to Hank Jr covering HMR, and who else was on the docket besides Tammy Wynette with In My Room and Rodney Crowell with Sail on Sailor. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 26, 2020, 10:10:24 AM For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal. Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away). Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too. Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr. So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners. Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names. Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans. In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun". The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on. Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums. James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music". So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest. :) I would like to know what happened to Hank Jr covering HMR, and who else was on the docket besides Tammy Wynette with In My Room and Rodney Crowell with Sail on Sailor. Reports mentioned the possibility of having Hank Jr, Dolly Parton, Merle Haggard (I believe the solo "California Saga" Al recorded - used in Endless Harmony - was a demo for Haggard; it does indeed sound a lot like his singing style). Ronnie Milsap was supposed to do "Surfer girl" and Steve Earle to do "Shut down", I heard. Having a realistic "What could've been" of this album is actually one of my favorite phantasies of 90s Beach Boys. Here's a couple of ideas: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12521.msg635016/topicseen.html#msg635016 Just imagine what George Jones would sound like on "God only knows". He and Tammy Wynette just did a new album together at that time so maybe they could've done a duet on "Let's put our hearts together"... So much potential for an interesting and great release. But as it's the Beach Boys, so it became what we have today. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 26, 2020, 10:58:49 AM I would buy an album of George Jones singing the phone book...one of the best voices, if not the best, in country music. Man would that have been awesome to hear George sing one of the band's tunes. It's a shame more of the guest artists mentioned didn't materialize for the album. BUT - We got Willie singing, and that for me is the hands-down highlight of the S&S album.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 27, 2020, 12:09:09 AM Well, at least Al was smart enough to have Glen Campbell sing on Postcards.
And I never could figure out what Timothy B. Schmidt and Kathy Trocolli were doing on an album of country singers. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 27, 2020, 01:35:54 AM Well, at least Al was smart enough to have Glen Campbell sing on Postcards. And I never could figure out what Timothy B. Schmidt and Kathy Trocolli were doing on an album of country singers. Well, Schmit is a member of the Eagles and they are considered Country Rock. So, I guess that was the idea. Troccoli seems to come from the Contemporary Christian Music field. Possibly the thoughts were that you can't make a conservative Country record without appealing to conservative Christians....? The audience they try to reach is definitely the conservative one. But I don't know, she does a very good job singing it. But again, the album is just a waste of time even for Country fans imo, except for a couple of tracks (Willie obviously and Lorrie Morgan) and the fact that it's the last recording of Carl with the Beach Boys. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 28, 2020, 03:16:17 AM I would buy an album of George Jones singing the phone book...one of the best voices, if not the best, in country music. Man would that have been awesome to hear George sing one of the band's tunes. It's a shame more of the guest artists mentioned didn't materialize for the album. Yes, definitely! What a voice and what a singer! Also a favorite is Ray Price who seemingly gets criminally overlooked although being incredibly influential. Could you hear him doing "Keep an eye on summer" or even "Busy doin' nothing" in the style of his "You're the best thing that ever happened to me"? BTW, instead of "Help me, Rhonda" - of which he certainly would've done a very good job - I could hear Hank Jr. do "Back home". Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: phirnis on August 28, 2020, 06:43:50 AM One of the biggest misfires of their career. They put it together at a time when many of the cool younger indie artists had just (re-)discovered the Beach Boys, with bands like the High Llamas or Saint Etienne being huge fans. The Beach Boys, however, did not care. Instead they released this album made for an older conservative audience that wasn't interested in this project at all.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Matt H on August 28, 2020, 06:56:58 AM For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal. Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away). Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too. Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr. So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners. Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names. Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans. In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun". The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on. Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums. James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music". So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest. :) I would like to know what happened to Hank Jr covering HMR, and who else was on the docket besides Tammy Wynette with In My Room and Rodney Crowell with Sail on Sailor. Reports mentioned the possibility of having Hank Jr, Dolly Parton, Merle Haggard (I believe the solo "California Saga" Al recorded - used in Endless Harmony - was a demo for Haggard; it does indeed sound a lot like his singing style). Ronnie Milsap was supposed to do "Surfer girl" and Steve Earle to do "Shut down", I heard. Having a realistic "What could've been" of this album is actually one of my favorite phantasies of 90s Beach Boys. Here's a couple of ideas: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12521.msg635016/topicseen.html#msg635016 Just imagine what George Jones would sound like on "God only knows". He and Tammy Wynette just did a new album together at that time so maybe they could've done a duet on "Let's put our hearts together"... So much potential for an interesting and great release. But as it's the Beach Boys, so it became what we have today. You mentioning Steve Earle reminds me of going to Borders Books and Music before this album came out. They had a terminal where you could look up albums. I remember seeing the Steve Earle and Merle Haggard entries in there. Then when it came out it was different. I also remember looking up the IJWMFTT soundtrack before it came out, it had Finders Keepers listed. They must have taken a list of songs that were in the movie, but didn't know what would be on the soundtrack. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: HeyJude on August 28, 2020, 09:42:32 AM The story of how this album came together is far more interesting than the album itself.
It's awful, awful music performed mostly by people who didn't care about it. I can't think of something more bland in the history of recorded music than "I Get Around" by Sawyer Brown. Although another half dozen or more songs on the album give it a good run. The only good thing that came of it was that it tanked. That was a good thing. Imagine if it had somehow had fluke success. We'd have had more of that "formula." Although, by 1998 studio projects under the BB name were basically a non-starter either way I suppose. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Matt H on August 28, 2020, 10:23:23 AM The story of how this album came together is far more interesting than the album itself. It's awful, awful music performed mostly by people who didn't care about it. I can't think of something more bland in the history of recorded music than "I Get Around" by Sawyer Brown. Although another half dozen or more songs on the album give it a good run. The only good thing that came of it was that it tanked. That was a good thing. Imagine if it had somehow had fluke success. We'd have had more of that "formula." Although, by 1998 studio projects under the BB name were basically a non-starter either way I suppose. How about Fun, Fun, Fun by Ricky Van Shelton. There are a handful of tracks that I like on the record: 409 - Junior Brown - I have seen him on concert, he is an awesome guitar player The Warmth of the Sun Help Me Rhonda Caroline No I also liked In My Room by Wynette and Sail On Sailer by Rodney Crowell as outtakes. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Tony S on August 28, 2020, 11:08:30 AM I think TWOTS and I can Hear Music were pretty good, I think Caroline No with the added ending coda was really good...bt hat was about it.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 28, 2020, 11:33:03 AM I wouldn't call it "awful music". It's bland, typical Nashville production sound. But it's not awful.
One of the problems imo is the involvement of the Beach Boys themselves and Brian being the producer. He wrote those songs and arranged them the wa he wanted them bak in the day. So of course that's how he re-recorded them. Brian is no Country producer. To make such a project work though, the songs need to be taken into a different direction and interpreted by actually Country artists. Willie Nelson can make anything sound like a Willie Nelson song, so that worked out well. Same goes for Tammy Wynette. These two are giants and completely in that league the project should have focused on. But a lot of the other singers grew up with the Beach Boys and probably would never dare to change the songs, especially with Brian Wilson is producing. BTW, was "Sail on sailor" only done at the rehearsal or is there a studio recording of it as well? And will we ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' full backing vocals? A version with just Brian's vocals was of course released after Tammy died. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: BeachBoysCovers on August 28, 2020, 12:12:54 PM Mike says in his book that in Nashville Carl "didn't even want to be filmed doing studio sessions", but was happy to do "extended interviews for a video".
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: HeyJude on August 28, 2020, 01:02:16 PM The story of how this album came together is far more interesting than the album itself. It's awful, awful music performed mostly by people who didn't care about it. I can't think of something more bland in the history of recorded music than "I Get Around" by Sawyer Brown. Although another half dozen or more songs on the album give it a good run. The only good thing that came of it was that it tanked. That was a good thing. Imagine if it had somehow had fluke success. We'd have had more of that "formula." Although, by 1998 studio projects under the BB name were basically a non-starter either way I suppose. How about Fun, Fun, Fun by Ricky Van Shelton. There are a handful of tracks that I like on the record: 409 - Junior Brown - I have seen him on concert, he is an awesome guitar player The Warmth of the Sun Help Me Rhonda Caroline No I also liked In My Room by Wynette and Sail On Sailer by Rodney Crowell as outtakes. The album is awful, but it covers (mostly) amazing songs, so there's usually *something* to pick out if one looks hard enough. Junior Brown is a great guitar player (and versatile; I recall seeing him covering a Hendrix song), but the stuff with him and the BBs turns into a goof novelty. I guess it's one of the more palatable moments. I know it's kind of accepted that we're all supposed to like the Willie Nelson track at least, and I can't deny the whole project was almost worth it just to see footage of Mike trying to correct Nelson and then Nelson ignoring him. But honestly, it's not like I even go back to *that* track. Props to Nelson, I guess, for just doing the thing the way he wanted. I don't revisit this album at all. The documentary is more worth a watch as some of the last footage of the guys together. But the whole time you want to throw a brick at the screen because you're watching them work on an awful album. Even in the best case scenario where "duet" type albums give an artist a shot in the arm (think that Santana "Supernatural" album), it's still usually a gimmick that takes away from whatever you liked about the main artist. When these albums are successful and well-made, they serve a purpose keeping the music in front of a larger, often younger demographic I suppose. "Stars and Stripes" was none of those things. It was was shoddily-conceived, with a bunch of artists that were beneath the Beach Boys, even the mid-90s past-their-prime Mike Love-led Beach Boys. The project was not bringing in a desirable demographic, and of course failed anyway and served no purpose. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: HeyJude on August 28, 2020, 01:14:49 PM I wouldn't call it "awful music". It's bland, typical Nashville production sound. But it's not awful. One of the problems imo is the involvement of the Beach Boys themselves and Brian being the producer. He wrote those songs and arranged them the wa he wanted them bak in the day. So of course that's how he re-recorded them. Brian is no Country producer. To make such a project work though, the songs need to be taken into a different direction and interpreted by actually Country artists. Willie Nelson can make anything sound like a Willie Nelson song, so that worked out well. Same goes for Tammy Wynette. These two are giants and completely in that league the project should have focused on. But a lot of the other singers grew up with the Beach Boys and probably would never dare to change the songs, especially with Brian Wilson is producing. BTW, was "Sail on sailor" only done at the rehearsal or is there a studio recording of it as well? And will we ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' full backing vocals? A version with just Brian's vocals was of course released after Tammy died. Nobody in 1996 wanted an album of mostly b-list country singers covering Beach Boys songs. Mainstream country-pop music even in the 1990s was already pretty homogenized and bland; I don't think Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson made it any worse. "Stars and Stripes" didn't fail among country fans because it didn't sound "country enough." I think Thomas molded that sound to sound more than sufficiently 90s contemporary country. I think BB fans didn't need country covers, and country fans didn't need Beach Boys covers. Willie Nelson nor Tammy Wynette was going to save this project. The only rising tide in fandom/music circles at that time was the nerd/indie/hipster crowd getting more into Pet Sounds and Smile and all of that. Contemporary bands of that era covering *that* material would have seen more attention. "Stars and Stripes" was another one of the band's awful, over-calculated, day-late-and-a-dollar-short ideas like the disco "Here Comes the Night." The band was extra rudderless by 1995/96. They were going through the motions doing bland live shows, doing gigs like the "Home Improvement" TV show. They bounced on doing the Paley stuff even though they could have overdubbed the Paley tracks into a "Beach Boys" album in a matter of days. Then on the eve of a huge boxed set celebrating "Pet Sounds", what does the band give us? Sawyer Brown and Toby Keith. It's ridiculous that some of Carl Wilson's last TV appearances were singing backing vocals on sh*tty country covers and that equally sh*tty Status Quo cover. The best thing that happened after that is how quickly the album died a deserved death and was forgotten. The only thing worth salvaging from this project is those backing vocals on "Caroline No" that they arranged and recorded. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: c-man on August 28, 2020, 02:28:19 PM I'm pretty sure the only reason this album exists is because they saw what happened when a slew of country artists covered an album's worth of Eagles songs on Common Thread a couple of years before...it was a HUGE success, reigniting interest in that band and leading to a full reunion/revival/resurgence. They/Thomas figured the same formula would work for them, only it would be better, since the Boys themselves would be backing all the country folk. So they brought in a couple of legacy artists (Willie, Tammy - even though she didn't make it to Volume 1, maybe they were holding her back for Volume 2), and several of the contemporary crowd, and expected a multi-platinum result. Er, no......
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Mr. Wilson Joliet on August 28, 2020, 02:53:41 PM I think the most frustrating thing about Stars and Stripes is that, in theory, a Beach Boys country album isn't a totally absurd idea. They delved into the genre a fair number of times and it almost always turned out enjoyable, whether it was "Hold On Dear Brother", "Cottonfields" or the "California Saga" suite. Even the more pop or rock-based songs that had a little country-flavouring were solid (the second version of "We're Together Again", "You Need A Mess of Help to Stand Alone"). But those aren't exactly popular Beach Boys songs to the public, so we just ended up with a another greatest hits-like tracklist, and songs that either didn't work very well in their new countrified arrangements or relied almost solely on the guest vocalist to make it fit the concept. "Long Tall Texan" was the only song whose inclusion seemed to make sense.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Robbie Mac on August 28, 2020, 03:05:28 PM I'm pretty sure the only reason this album exists is because they saw what happened when a slew of country artists covered an album's worth of Eagles songs on Common Thread a couple of years before...it was a HUGE success, reigniting interest in that band and leading to a full reunion/revival/resurgence. They/Thomas figured the same formula would work for them, only it would be better, since the Boys themselves would be backing all the country folk. So they brought in a couple of legacy artists (Willie, Tammy - even though she didn't make it to Volume 1, maybe they were holding her back for Volume 2), and several of the contemporary crowd, and expected a multi-platinum result. Er, no...... And they couldn’t really get a lot of the huge contemporary stars. No Garth or Vince or Reba or Shania. Most of the contemporary folks were either on their way up (Toby Keith was still several years away from superstardom) or on their way down. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 28, 2020, 06:30:19 PM One of the biggest misfires of their career. They put it together at a time when many of the cool younger indie artists had just (re-)discovered the Beach Boys, with bands like the High Llamas or Saint Etienne being huge fans. The Beach Boys, however, did not care. Instead they released this album made for an older conservative audience that wasn't interested in this project at all. They should have courted the youngsters and done an album with alternative bands. Can you imagine Foo Fighters covering "409"? Pearl Jam doing "God Only Knows"? If they'd thought of it a couple years earlier, they could have had Nirvana covering "In My Room". Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: All Summer Long on August 28, 2020, 09:00:55 PM One of the biggest misfires of their career. They put it together at a time when many of the cool younger indie artists had just (re-)discovered the Beach Boys, with bands like the High Llamas or Saint Etienne being huge fans. The Beach Boys, however, did not care. Instead they released this album made for an older conservative audience that wasn't interested in this project at all. If they'd thought of it a couple years earlier, they could have had Nirvana covering "In My Room". Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 29, 2020, 02:02:55 AM They could’ve done a killer version of Girl Don’t Tell Me. Already can hear it in my head too
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 29, 2020, 02:56:35 AM I wouldn't call it "awful music". It's bland, typical Nashville production sound. But it's not awful. One of the problems imo is the involvement of the Beach Boys themselves and Brian being the producer. He wrote those songs and arranged them the wa he wanted them bak in the day. So of course that's how he re-recorded them. Brian is no Country producer. To make such a project work though, the songs need to be taken into a different direction and interpreted by actually Country artists. Willie Nelson can make anything sound like a Willie Nelson song, so that worked out well. Same goes for Tammy Wynette. These two are giants and completely in that league the project should have focused on. But a lot of the other singers grew up with the Beach Boys and probably would never dare to change the songs, especially with Brian Wilson is producing. BTW, was "Sail on sailor" only done at the rehearsal or is there a studio recording of it as well? And will we ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' full backing vocals? A version with just Brian's vocals was of course released after Tammy died. Nobody in 1996 wanted an album of mostly b-list country singers covering Beach Boys songs. Mainstream country-pop music even in the 1990s was already pretty homogenized and bland; I don't think Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson made it any worse. "Stars and Stripes" didn't fail among country fans because it didn't sound "country enough." I think Thomas molded that sound to sound more than sufficiently 90s contemporary country. I think BB fans didn't need country covers, and country fans didn't need Beach Boys covers. Willie Nelson nor Tammy Wynette was going to save this project. The only rising tide in fandom/music circles at that time was the nerd/indie/hipster crowd getting more into Pet Sounds and Smile and all of that. Contemporary bands of that era covering *that* material would have seen more attention. "Stars and Stripes" was another one of the band's awful, over-calculated, day-late-and-a-dollar-short ideas like the disco "Here Comes the Night." I don't necessarily disagree with you as I've made clear by going on everyone's nerves over the years each time the topic of Stars&Stripes came up. I just wouldn't call it awful. Bland? Yes. Tasteless? Yes. But for what it is, it is done well. Problem is that it is a terribly executed project. But the musicians are top, the Beach Boys' vocals beautiful. I can't call this album Country, though. But then I hardly anything since the 80s counts as Country imo. Just because something is recorded in Nashville doesn't mean it's Country Music. Unfortunately Nashville doesn't understand that. Tom Petty once said about all these "modern" Country acts that they are basically "bad Rock bands with fiddles". That kinda sums it up. But even this way, the tracks with Willie and Tammy show that there was more potential, even if you don't go the route I am fantasizing about. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 29, 2020, 09:40:49 AM I wouldn't call it "awful music". It's bland, typical Nashville production sound. But it's not awful. One of the problems imo is the involvement of the Beach Boys themselves and Brian being the producer. He wrote those songs and arranged them the wa he wanted them bak in the day. So of course that's how he re-recorded them. Brian is no Country producer. To make such a project work though, the songs need to be taken into a different direction and interpreted by actually Country artists. Willie Nelson can make anything sound like a Willie Nelson song, so that worked out well. Same goes for Tammy Wynette. These two are giants and completely in that league the project should have focused on. But a lot of the other singers grew up with the Beach Boys and probably would never dare to change the songs, especially with Brian Wilson is producing. BTW, was "Sail on sailor" only done at the rehearsal or is there a studio recording of it as well? And will we ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' full backing vocals? A version with just Brian's vocals was of course released after Tammy died. Nobody in 1996 wanted an album of mostly b-list country singers covering Beach Boys songs. Mainstream country-pop music even in the 1990s was already pretty homogenized and bland; I don't think Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson made it any worse. "Stars and Stripes" didn't fail among country fans because it didn't sound "country enough." I think Thomas molded that sound to sound more than sufficiently 90s contemporary country. I think BB fans didn't need country covers, and country fans didn't need Beach Boys covers. Willie Nelson nor Tammy Wynette was going to save this project. The only rising tide in fandom/music circles at that time was the nerd/indie/hipster crowd getting more into Pet Sounds and Smile and all of that. Contemporary bands of that era covering *that* material would have seen more attention. "Stars and Stripes" was another one of the band's awful, over-calculated, day-late-and-a-dollar-short ideas like the disco "Here Comes the Night." I don't necessarily disagree with you as I've made clear by going on everyone's nerves over the years each time the topic of Stars&Stripes came up. I just wouldn't call it awful. Bland? Yes. Tasteless? Yes. But for what it is, it is done well. Problem is that it is a terribly executed project. But the musicians are top, the Beach Boys' vocals beautiful. I can't call this album Country, though. But then I hardly anything since the 80s counts as Country imo. Just because something is recorded in Nashville doesn't mean it's Country Music. Unfortunately Nashville doesn't understand that. Tom Petty once said about all these "modern" Country acts that they are basically "bad Rock bands with fiddles". That kinda sums it up. But even this way, the tracks with Willie and Tammy show that there was more potential, even if you don't go the route I am fantasizing about. I know I've said it before, but Junior Brown was the real deal as far as traditional, sh*t-kicking country music. He came to Boston in 1995, at a club that had another room where Richie Havens was playing the same night. I got there early, drained a few at the bar, and made sure to get a spot literally right at Junior's microphone, feet away from him...so I could watch his guitar playing up-close and see how he was doing those banjo licks among other techniques. *Fantastic* show - Junior on his Guit-Steel hybrid, his wife Tanya on acoustic rhythm guitar, upright bass, and a drummer who only had a snare drum. It was as close to the kind of classic country - rockabilly hybrid from 1961 or so that you could find. And Junior would throw in everything from Hendrix licks, to Speedy West steel quirks, to Hank Garland jazzy bluegrass runs, to Albert Lee banjo rolls (and Scruggs style on the 6-string guitar) and he even covered Hendrix. The show was loud as f***, even with such a stripped down setup. If I remember Junior had either one or two Fender Twins cranked up. My ears were ringing the whole next day. I looked around the room and I recognized what was probably most of the Boston guitar community there to see him play, definitely most of the people who worked at the area's various vintage guitar shops seemed to be there anyway lol. I think most guitarists in the country at that time wanted to see what this guy with the custom guitar was doing, and he delivered in Boston that night. As he also did on Conan O'Brien's NBC show, which is where I think a lot of non-country folks first heard him play and sing. So yes, definitely, Junior Brown was the real deal, and he had a classic country voice as well. Just check out his album "Guit With It", one of my favorites. As far as 409, I guess it was a good choice for him in terms of his style, but it is kind of a lesser song...not that it's lesser as in not a great classic BB's song, but for f***'s sake Junior could play guitar like nobody's business and the track didn't allow him room to do what he does the best. So the cover was good but if they let him cut loose on guitar it could have been great. Anyone unfamiliar, check out Junior's "Guit With It" and any number of videos on YouTube, especially if you like classic 50's-60's country and honky-tonk and rip-roarin' country guitar picking. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 29, 2020, 09:53:33 AM Oh, and just an addendum...In 1995-96-97 Junior Brown's star was rising, especially in country circles and he started to show up outside traditional country outlets too. He was on the usual TNN programs, I think they even had a featured concert with him at this time. David Letterman seemed to be a fan of his too, because Junior sat in with Paul and the band multiple times. Conan had him on promoting "Guit With It" twice.
And if you find a clip of STP playing "Sour Girl" on Letterman, with Weiland wearing a cowboy hat, they had Junior guesting with them that night playing his Guit-Steel guitar on the song. Awesome song, btw Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Emdeeh on August 29, 2020, 11:22:20 AM I agree -- Junior Brown is the real deal and he puts on a great show. I've seen him twice, both times at an intimate venue in Athens, GA.
I will play devil's advocate for a moment here. My intro to Junior Brown was through the Stars and Stripes album. My hubby found out about him around the same time, via channel surfing. So Guit With It found its way to our home pretty quickly. When we drove to California and back a few years ago, my hubby brought the CD along so we could hear "You're Wanted by the Police (and My Wife Thinks You're Dead)" while hauling across Texas. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Lonely Summer on August 29, 2020, 06:23:58 PM Junior Brown was great. I had a friend who kept sending me tapes of his stuff - radio concerts, etc - so i started looking out for him on tv and stuff. Wish the Beach Boys had gone after more cutting edge country artists like him, as well as more of the legends. I would think it's a no-brainer to have Glen Campbell sing on your country album - the man WAS A BEACH BOY! He played on their records!
I seriously doubt the Beach Boys saw themselves as having anything in common with bands in the alternative scene, although many of them pledged allegiance to the genius named Brian Wilson. I can just imagine Mike or Al being given some grunge band cd and trying to here some "Little Honda" or "409" influence in there. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Aum Bop Diddit on August 29, 2020, 07:09:54 PM Favorite track was not included -- Tammy Wynette's "In My Room." The video of Brian listening is heart rending.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Robbie Mac on August 29, 2020, 09:31:03 PM Junior Brown was great. I had a friend who kept sending me tapes of his stuff - radio concerts, etc - so i started looking out for him on tv and stuff. Wish the Beach Boys had gone after more cutting edge country artists like him, as well as more of the legends. I would think it's a no-brainer to have Glen Campbell sing on your country album - the man WAS A BEACH BOY! He played on their records! I seriously doubt the Beach Boys saw themselves as having anything in common with bands in the alternative scene, although many of them pledged allegiance to the genius named Brian Wilson. I can just imagine Mike or Al being given some grunge band cd and trying to here some "Little Honda" or "409" influence in there. But it wasn’t the grunge guys who were talking up Brian. It was, for want of a better description, the power pop guys like Matthew Sweet and Jellyfish. And indie orchestral pop guys like Sean O’Hagan. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on August 30, 2020, 02:22:26 AM Yes, Junior Brown is impressive. From the little I know of him, he surely can play that thang! I heard a surf-medley by him and it's great. Not too crazy about his singing, though. Dave Dudley did a better job with that sound imo.
I also like his "409" very much. From the comments it seems that his playing was a highlight for the Boys. I wished we could see what Brian thought about him the first time he heard him play. This kind of guitar is not something that Brian used very often so I imagine he was thrilled by the sounds coming out of it. I also don't necessarily think that the song was a bad choice for him. But as guitarfool said, it probably could've needed some more space for him to cut lose. On the other hand, I don't know if any other Beach Boys song would've been better suited. As it is, though, it is the only track on the album that comes close to some real raw Rock'n'Roll (putting aside that it is supposed to be a Country album :-D ). Junior Brown was great. I had a friend who kept sending me tapes of his stuff - radio concerts, etc - so i started looking out for him on tv and stuff. Wish the Beach Boys had gone after more cutting edge country artists like him, as well as more of the legends. I would think it's a no-brainer to have Glen Campbell sing on your country album - the man WAS A BEACH BOY! He played on their records! I seriously doubt the Beach Boys saw themselves as having anything in common with bands in the alternative scene, although many of them pledged allegiance to the genius named Brian Wilson. I can just imagine Mike or Al being given some grunge band cd and trying to here some "Little Honda" or "409" influence in there. But it wasn’t the grunge guys who were talking up Brian. It was, for want of a better description, the power pop guys like Matthew Sweet and Jellyfish. And indie orchestral pop guys like Sean O’Hagan. And as far as I recall, Brian wasn't interested in working with O'Hagan. BTW, on another note, have you heard Billy Hinsche tell the story of the Beach Boys using Willie Nelson's plane in the 80s? It was in one of the earlier episodes of his recent facebook videos. As I recall the BBs used a plane in bad shape that nearly crashed. So they needed another way to get to a show. Coincidentally Willie was at the airport flying in with his plane and they asked if they could use it. He said "Sure". Didn't want nothing in return, only a promise that they played at one of his Farm Aid shows. Great guy. But I gotta ask again: Do you think it's likely we'll ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' vocals as it appears in "Nshville Sounds"? We only have an official release of the Tammy & Brian mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B0hGjSgzA I love the way Carl's voice and the steel guitar blend into one another during the "lie awake and pray-hay" part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGntEUmk3dE And yet another thing, since we are at a topic regarding the Beach Boys and Country music. I don't know when I would be able to post this, so forgive me if it seems kinda random. Al and Matt recorded a cover version of Garth Brooks' "Papa loved Mama" for a tribute. And it actually is a great recording. Sounds very authentic as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twAqwWh_CdQ Now, if Stars&Stripes would sound like this, I'd probably be ok with it. Even though I don't care very much about artists like Brooks and such. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: mrski on August 31, 2020, 01:15:38 PM Only really listen to "409" and "Long Tall Texan"... I love Dwight, but not sure about this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md09xy8ffX8 (Not on Stars & Stripes) Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: southbay on August 31, 2020, 05:09:57 PM Only really listen to "409" and "Long Tall Texan"... I love Dwight, but not sure about this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md09xy8ffX8 (Not on Stars & Stripes) Ok, I'm not a country fan by any means but I think that sounds pretty good as covers go, and certainly better than anything on S&S Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on September 01, 2020, 02:18:15 AM "Sloop John B." on Stars & Stripes is just one of the few times, as I remember, that you can actually hear a steel guitar prominently on the album.
It's strange that they didn't have Yoakam on the album. It seems like in the 90s he was on every tribute-album I saw. I remember him doing a very cool "Mystery train" on an Elvis tribute in '94. I wonder, are there actually some interesting or worthwhile Beach Boys covers by Country artists? BTW I just saw that there was a music video made for James House's "Little Deuce Coupe", part of the scenes were on the Nashville Sounds doc. And it is as cringeworthy as you would expect. Almost like a bad parody. Think "Hot fun in the summertime" without Stamos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbpPH416Bg If we'll talk more about the album and all that stuff, I thought I'd compile a couple of links to music videos, performances etc. that have to do with the project. See this as a bonus section to the Nashville Sounds DVD. Unfortunately I couldn't find Al's accoustic "California Saga" on youtube, which was allegedly a demo for Merle Haggard. James House & The Beach Boys - Little Deuce Coupe (music video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbpPH416Bg The Beach Boys & James House - Little Deuce Coupe (live performance on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0vg3p4U3jE The Beach Boys & James House - Little Deuce Coupe (live on Letterman) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe577Ff6Lqc The Beach Boys & Sawyer Brown - I Get Around (live performance) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GefVO9vN1oY The Beach Boys & Toby Keith - Be True to Your School (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpNlXW-TQs The Beach Boys with Kathy Troccoli (live on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n79x5h-bWQ The Beach Boys with Shelby Lynn, James House, Willie Nelson and Neil Young (Farm Aid 1996) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E-rArXfC68 The Beach Boys - California Girls (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V791W96hMD8 The Beach Boys - Barbara Ann (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CW7fosjy4 Tammy Wynette & Brian Wilson - In My Room (from Tammy Wynette tribute album "Remembered") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B0hGjSgzA Bonus tracks: Al Jardine - California Saga (allegedly a demo for Merle Haggard) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGsqofHGla0 The Beach Boys & Collin Raye - Winter Wonderland (1996 ?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa3NmE_XZgQ Brian Wilson & Willie Nelson - The Warmth of the Sun (Live at Farm Aid 1998) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XJZ5_sun-s Al & Matt Jardine - Papa loved Mama (from Garth Brooks tribute album "New friend in low places" - from ca. 1999) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twAqwWh_CdQ Al Jardine & Timothy B Schmidt - On the Kingston Trio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1517Ggi3nY Hope I didn't forget anything. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: HeyJude on September 01, 2020, 12:37:36 PM I wouldn't call it "awful music". It's bland, typical Nashville production sound. But it's not awful. One of the problems imo is the involvement of the Beach Boys themselves and Brian being the producer. He wrote those songs and arranged them the wa he wanted them bak in the day. So of course that's how he re-recorded them. Brian is no Country producer. To make such a project work though, the songs need to be taken into a different direction and interpreted by actually Country artists. Willie Nelson can make anything sound like a Willie Nelson song, so that worked out well. Same goes for Tammy Wynette. These two are giants and completely in that league the project should have focused on. But a lot of the other singers grew up with the Beach Boys and probably would never dare to change the songs, especially with Brian Wilson is producing. BTW, was "Sail on sailor" only done at the rehearsal or is there a studio recording of it as well? And will we ever get Tammy Wynette's "In my room" with the Beach Boys' full backing vocals? A version with just Brian's vocals was of course released after Tammy died. Nobody in 1996 wanted an album of mostly b-list country singers covering Beach Boys songs. Mainstream country-pop music even in the 1990s was already pretty homogenized and bland; I don't think Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson made it any worse. "Stars and Stripes" didn't fail among country fans because it didn't sound "country enough." I think Thomas molded that sound to sound more than sufficiently 90s contemporary country. I think BB fans didn't need country covers, and country fans didn't need Beach Boys covers. Willie Nelson nor Tammy Wynette was going to save this project. The only rising tide in fandom/music circles at that time was the nerd/indie/hipster crowd getting more into Pet Sounds and Smile and all of that. Contemporary bands of that era covering *that* material would have seen more attention. "Stars and Stripes" was another one of the band's awful, over-calculated, day-late-and-a-dollar-short ideas like the disco "Here Comes the Night." I don't necessarily disagree with you as I've made clear by going on everyone's nerves over the years each time the topic of Stars&Stripes came up. I just wouldn't call it awful. Bland? Yes. Tasteless? Yes. But for what it is, it is done well. Problem is that it is a terribly executed project. But the musicians are top, the Beach Boys' vocals beautiful. I can't call this album Country, though. But then I hardly anything since the 80s counts as Country imo. Just because something is recorded in Nashville doesn't mean it's Country Music. Unfortunately Nashville doesn't understand that. Tom Petty once said about all these "modern" Country acts that they are basically "bad Rock bands with fiddles". That kinda sums it up. But even this way, the tracks with Willie and Tammy show that there was more potential, even if you don't go the route I am fantasizing about. I guess in my mind "Terribly Executed" plus "Bland" plus "Tasteless" equals awful, or something pretty close. You can tell in that film documentary, by god they're *trying* to make the thing into something substantive, at least in terms of how they talk it up. The only thing that made sense in doing that project was the *possibly* valid theory that it was easier to squeeze a "reunion" out of the band by having them back other artists on cover versions, which would alleviate at least some of the potential hangups/arguments that could happen in trying to write and record new music. I don't think BB music melds particularly well with any sub-genre of country music. There are exceptions of course; one can make certain things work. But I think, certainly both back in 1996 and even more so now in 2020 when we see the amount of output the band had, *any* covers album would be pretty low on many if not most fans' wish lists. A country album even less so. There's no scenario where, in my mind, it would have been good. Maybe there are some BB fans who are also super into country music and would like to hear it done better. I think every aspect of "Stars and Stripes" was a misstep. If they were inclined to back a covers album, they should have picked different musical styles and different artists. If they were inclined to do country, they should have waited to get better artists. If they were stuck with that list of artists, they should have made it sound better, and/or turned the album into duets. And even in those hypothetical improved scenarios, the whole thing sounds horrendous. Some of this boils down to the fact that, certainly by some point by the end of the 70s if not sooner, the only way the band would have likely ever produced a truly good product was to have some outside entity making it happen, both on the organizational/financial side as well as creative. They needed to have someone who could get a project done, and do it in good taste. Others like Paley and Was had some good taste, but couldn't make the projects happen. Ironically, while "Stars and Stripes" was extremely weak, the most productive and relatively high quality we got out of the band after 1970-something or was probably Joe Thomas making C50 in 2012 happen. He found the money, and he organized the thing top to bottom and got it done, and it came out on the other end with a pretty solid album, and an excellent tour. Even in that *best case scenario*, band bulls**t led to it falling apart after mere months. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: mrski on September 01, 2020, 12:57:27 PM Here's another country BBoys cover : 'Warmth Of The Sun' - Nickle Creek.
Loved their first Sugar Hill Records CD (produced by Alison Krauss), but for me, they kind of lost their way after that... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7_BKMGX-VU My S&S CD has a hype sticker which reads, "THE BEACH BOYS with their Favorite Top Country Stars" So that's Lorrie Morgan, James House, Jr. Brown, Doug Supernaw, Sawyer Brown, Toby Keith, Ricky Van Shelton, T. Graham Brown, Wille Nelson, Collin Raye, Kathy Troccali, Timothy B. Schmit... (plus Tammy Wynette, Rodney Crowell...) Contrast that with the artists on the 'Common Thread' Eagles tribute CD : Travis Tritt, Little Texas, Clint Black, John Anderson, Alan Jackson, Suzy Bogguss, Vince Gill, Diamond Rio, Trisha Yearwood, Billy Dean, Tanya Tucker, Brookes & Dunn, Lorrie Morgan... Or the (1st) Tribute To Bob Wills CD by Asleep At The Wheel... Chet Atkins, Vince Gill, Marty Stuart, George Strait, Garth Brookes, Lyle Lovatt, Dolly Parton, Johnny Rodriguez, Suzy Bogguss, Huey Lewis, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, Brookes & Dunn, Riders In The Sky... If I remember correctly, country music was enjoying a surge in popularity at the time, and that is probably the only reason The BBoys became associated with it... The majority of established country stars of the day were influenced by Hank, Lefty, George Jones, George Strait, (maybe Gram Parsons), Buck Owens et al... I am sure many would have admired the work The BBoys did, but as for The BBoys being a major influence on them? Obviously not so. And hence many of the 'real' Top Country Stars were not actually waiting in line to contribute to such an album. Maybe it would have been a better project overall had The BBoys covered some country songs themselves as well, probably would have been more interesting... Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: southbay on September 01, 2020, 01:18:35 PM "Sloop John B." on Stars & Stripes is just one of the few times, as I remember, that you can actually hear a steel guitar prominently on the album. It's strange that they didn't have Yoakam on the album. It seems like in the 90s he was on every tribute-album I saw. I remember him doing a very cool "Mystery train" on an Elvis tribute in '94. I wonder, are there actually some interesting or worthwhile Beach Boys covers by Country artists? BTW I just saw that there was a music video made for James House's "Little Deuce Coupe", part of the scenes were on the Nashville Sounds doc. And it is as cringeworthy as you would expect. Almost like a bad parody. Think "Hot fun in the summertime" without Stamos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbpPH416Bg If we'll talk more about the album and all that stuff, I thought I'd compile a couple of links to music videos, performances etc. that have to do with the project. See this as a bonus section to the Nashville Sounds DVD. Unfortunately I couldn't find Al's accoustic "California Saga" on youtube, which was allegedly a demo for Merle Haggard. James House & The Beach Boys - Little Deuce Coupe (music video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbpPH416Bg The Beach Boys & James House - Little Deuce Coupe (live performance on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0vg3p4U3jE The Beach Boys & James House - Little Deuce Coupe (live on Letterman) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe577Ff6Lqc The Beach Boys & Sawyer Brown - I Get Around (live performance) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GefVO9vN1oY The Beach Boys & Toby Keith - Be True to Your School (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpNlXW-TQs The Beach Boys with Kathy Troccoli (live on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n79x5h-bWQ The Beach Boys with Shelby Lynn, James House, Willie Nelson and Neil Young (Farm Aid 1996) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E-rArXfC68 The Beach Boys - California Girls (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V791W96hMD8 The Beach Boys - Barbara Ann (live on Prime Time Country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CW7fosjy4 Tammy Wynette & Brian Wilson - In My Room (from Tammy Wynette tribute album "Remembered") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6B0hGjSgzA Bonus tracks: The Beach Boys & Collin Raye - Winter Wonderland (1996 ?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa3NmE_XZgQ Brian Wilson & Willie Nelson - The Warmth of the Sun (Live at Farm Aid 1998) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XJZ5_sun-s Al & Matt Jardine - Papa loved Mama (from Garth Brooks tribute album "New friend in low places" - from ca. 1999) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twAqwWh_CdQ Al Jardine & Timothy B Schmidt - On the Kingston Trio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1517Ggi3nY Hope I didn't forget anything. The shame of that whole thing is, if you just listen to some of those backing vocals, you can imagine what they could have produced on their own during that time. For instance, that Collin Raye "Winter Wonderland"--the Beach Boys' backing vocals are amazing. Just stunning. Unfortunately that's all we got out of that period, backing vocals we have to put through a strainer to enjoy. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Pretty Funky on September 01, 2020, 02:59:15 PM How have I missed that Willie Nelson/ Brian Wilson WOTS clip for 6 years? Wow! 9/10.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on September 07, 2020, 02:44:17 AM It seems to me that Brian actually doubles with Matt on a couple of the falsetto parts on the album. "I get around" and "Little Deuce Coupe". Is that true? Maybe someone with better ears than myself knows more?
EDIT: I mentioned the idea of Ray Price doing "Keep an eye on summer" on Stars&Stripes (it would sound perfect, if you take his "You're the best thing that ever happened to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMv75bZvnE)" as a model). Anyway, I realized that both "Keep an eye on summer" and "Let him run wild" were recorded and released by Brian and Joe Thomas on "Imagination" and I wondered if that might've come from a plan to record those two songs for the second volume of Stars&Stripes (not necessarily with Ray Price in mind, although the strings on KAEOS make this sound like a perfect fit even in this version). Does anyone have more insight into this? Was Brian maybe looking forward to record these two songs for Vol 2 and when it didn't happen just went ahead and did them for his solo album? Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: c-man on September 07, 2020, 07:59:20 AM Rocker, you could be right on both notes. I think Brian doubles Matt on some high parts in "You're Still A Mystery", recorded the previous year.
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on September 07, 2020, 09:52:49 AM Rocker, you could be right on both notes. I think Brian doubles Matt on some high parts in "You're Still A Mystery", recorded the previous year. Yeah, it does sound like Brian, doesn't it? And yes to "You're still a mystery". IIRC it may be Brian alone on the falsetto on the bootlegged version, but I haven't listened to that in years. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: southbay on September 07, 2020, 10:25:01 AM Rocker, you could be right on both notes. I think Brian doubles Matt on some high parts in "You're Still A Mystery", recorded the previous year. Always believed that was Carl and MattTitle: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: c-man on September 07, 2020, 11:14:03 AM Rocker, you could be right on both notes. I think Brian doubles Matt on some high parts in "You're Still A Mystery", recorded the previous year. Always believed that was Carl and MattBased on track sheet notation, there's reason to believe it's Carl and Matt in places, and Brian and Matt in places, or all three in places... Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on September 08, 2020, 12:51:41 PM BTW posted in May of this year, I just saw this article on rollingstone.com
Flashback: Hear Tammy Wynette’s Last Recorded Song ‘In My Room’ Country vocalist sang the Beach Boys classic for an unreleased second volume of the band’s ‘Stars & Stripes’ project https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/tammy-wynette-final-song-in-my-room-994303/ I find it interesting that it isn't mentioned very often that the Nashville Sounds documentary actually featured the Beach Boys' vocals while the version on TammyWynette Remembered is just Brian. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: DonnyL on September 08, 2020, 02:36:17 PM Let's just pause for a moment and think about how the distance in time between Stars & Stripes and now is the same as Pet Sounds to "Problem Child".
Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: southbay on September 08, 2020, 02:49:17 PM Let's just pause for a moment and think about how the distance in time between Stars & Stripes and now is the same as Pet Sounds to "Problem Child". You just blew my mind, Sir Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Rocker on September 16, 2020, 12:30:20 PM Ok, here's something else. I found this on youtube and it claims to be an alternate version of "The warmth of the sun". Now Willie's vocal is the same. The background voices also seem to be the same. But the mix sounds different. Is this legit or was it done by changing the adjustments of the sound on the DVD? You can hear some individual voices easier than on the released one. But I don't remember any outtakes and/or bootlegs of these sessions to ever come out.
The Beach Boys and Willie Nelson - Warmth Of The Sun (Alternate Version) Stars and Stripes Vol 1 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCSLr6yFY5g Another thing I already asked but would like to know more about: Does a studio recording of Rodney Crowell's "Sail on Sailor" exist? It seems kinda odd to me to invite him for the concert and sing before actually recording the song in the studio. Not impossible but unlikely, I'd guess. Title: Re: Carl on Stars and Stripes Post by: Matt H on September 16, 2020, 01:07:25 PM Ok, here's something else. I found this on youtube and it claims to be an alternate version of "The warmth of the sun". Now Willie's vocal is the same. The background voices also seem to be the same. But the mix sounds different. Is this legit or was it done by changing the adjustments of the sound on the DVD? You can hear some individual voices easier than on the released one. But I don't remember any outtakes and/or bootlegs of these sessions to ever come out. The Beach Boys and Willie Nelson - Warmth Of The Sun (Alternate Version) Stars and Stripes Vol 1 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCSLr6yFY5g Another thing I already asked but would like to know more about: Does a studio recording of Rodney Crowell's "Sail on Sailor" exist? It seems kinda odd to me to invite him for the concert and sing before actually recording the song in the studio. Not impossible but unlikely, I'd guess. I can hear Brian a lot more on this version. I do not know the answer to the Rodney Crowell question, but would love to have a copy of that if it exists. |