The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just saw this on another board -

<< This should prove to be interesting. Rocky will be interviewed on WFMU on June 13th.
wfmu.org/upcoming/SH >>

Interviewed by Mtaber....

Awesome! :)

Mtaber: Rocky, how’s your book selling?

(Interview ends after prolonged sounds of mtaber getting his ass beat)

 :lol

Unless the interview has already been done, I'd seriously recommend reading through Rocky's previous posts on this board, followed by Ron's posts on this board:

All of Rocky's posts:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts)

Ron's thread on the book:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26232.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26232.0.html)

The only question that needs to be asked - of Rocky, not Ron - is why Rocky did literally a 180 degree shift in narrative, tone, and focus from the time he was shopping and posting his original manuscripts to the time he connected with Ron and the publisher to get the book published. He and others posted excerpts from his original manuscript, yet when the book came out the narrative had been completely flipped.

I guess a follow-up question may be in order too: Do we believe the original Rocky who was posting excerpts and comments here, or the Rocky who worked with Ron a few years later?

Some of us (including yours truly) tried to shamelessly egg Rocky on in hopes of getting a few more slip-ups of the real dynamic between the Love brothers and the 90s lawsuits, but it appears that someone got hold of Rocky and whispered the right "sweet nothing" into his ear.

Seems to me that Marty T. should consider setting aside the plans to interview Rocky and focus instead on Don Goldberg, whose memoir is a lot more revealing about a more interesting (and poignant) time in BBs history. Being reminded about how Brian was "handled" by this procession of goons is unseemly and depressing at best.

Seriously, it ain’t me interviewing Rocky.  No idea who is actually doing the interview.  Seems a strange time to be talking to Mr Pamplin,  he’s not exactly a hot topic currently (was he EVER?)

Honestly, I want dirt. I'm not holding my breath.

Everybody, let's forget pampty dampty rocky squirrel tool. Boo him. 👊👊👊

The large majority of people surrounding Brian were really committed to have something to sell to benefit themselves. Maybe do a little research and listen to the people who loved him and didn't cash in. Just a thought.

^ Agreed

Yep, that's why I say let's forget THE tool. Can mods lock this thread? :D

Anyone heard from Emily lately? She should be in this thread... hope she’s doing ok...

Why she should be here? What's the interest in pampy? Why care about some random tool's interview?

The only relevant question to ask at this point is why did Rocky change his tune in a matter of a few years. At least in my opinion. When you get two completely different versions on paper of the same story from the same eyewitness, one of the versions isn't true. It's that simple.

I heard this announced by Michael Shelley on his show Saturday (11am - 1pm on WFMU 91.1 in the NYC area -- just about the greatest radio station ever -- I donate for the record).  Michael is smart, hip (but little if any snark) , grounded and a terrific interviewer.   He regularly plays off the beaten track Beach Boys (he hit hard on "Sunshine Tomorrow" last year) among tons of other great to interesting tracks.  If you check his page on the WFMU website you'll see a very eclectic list of (great) interviews which include greats like Jonathan Richman, John Sebastian, Nick Lowe -- and  Mike Love!

https://wfmu.org/playlists/SH

Well, today's the big day...

I'm tuned in -- Michael is playing the backing track to "We're Together Again" -- earlier "Guess I'm Done" sessions, alternate "Here Today," "You're So Good to Me" -- for all you cynics....

12 noon EST, Rocky coming up on the broadcast in minutes: http://stream0.wfmu.org/freeform-128k (http://stream0.wfmu.org/freeform-128k)

I think these are archived too so anyone interested can listen later

Picturing Brian pouring 10 tablespoons of coffee grounds into a glass, mixing it with hot water from the sink, chugging it, then sitting on the couch panting afterwards is a sad thing to think about.

Great questions being asked though.

It's a good interview so far! Waiting for the other shoe to drop...lol

If I were to tell stories from 45 years ago or so it would be my version plus the filter of time.  Not putting Rocky up for sainthood but he makes some points.  His coauthor does seem a bit of a putz however.

And it dropped at 12:24pm, EST...that's all we get.  ::)

According to Ron, it came down to two "camps" having their take on events, and his assertion that Mike was the savior of the band and how much respect Rocky had for Mike Love was something Ron got out of Rocky...no mention at all of Rocky's previous comments and feelings toward Mike and his actions which appeared here and elsewhere (see the links above to read all of Rocky's previous posts) being in direct contradiction to what Ron is saying now, as current as the final 2 minutes of the interview.

Ron and Rocky can still post here any time they wish. The contradiction is there for everyone to read and hear.

I agree: Rocky makes some good points and yes, I can see his perspective on the whole deal to the point where the interview stopped in terms of the full history. You have 25 minutes, you can't expand all that much. But I agree, Rocky did state his perspective in a clear way, and he did make some points. However, it's the blatant contradictions in what Rocky said when he had a working book manuscript versus what his book says after he connected with co-author Ron that makes it so obvious. I see more of Ron in the new narrative than I do Rocky, especially when both sides can be read on demand. That is frustrating.

BTW - WFMU is indeed a terrific station. Being old-fashioned myself, I enjoy tuning in radio stations during road trips versus streaming or satellite. I have some great memories of "finding" WFMU in the various rental cars as I drove up the east coast. It was like a beacon of cool, not to sound cheesy.  :lol  But I found a new go-to stream during the day, second to my own home station WXPN. Highly recommend both of them for people looking for some great broadcast radio. Thanks for letting all of us know!

I will have to familiarize myself with the earlier manuscript.  Though the overall resurrection of Brian Wilson is more important to me than the dirt -- and we all know there is plenty of dirt.  Anyway, it was good to see Smiley Smile in the house there today!  And praise for the Fun 91 WFMU and the mighty Michael Shelley show here :)

Thank you for posting and telling everyone here about WFMU! I'm still tuned in and loving the set of guitar instrumentals being played. Seriously, on a Saturday afternoon to tune in a station like WFMU and hear Kenny Burrell, songs from Love You, and Ghost Riders In The Sky '65, alongside Junkstar's band...where else can you get that! My kind of station and playlist. Thanks again for letting people know and hopefully WFMU will get more supporters as a result. These stations like WFMU and Philly's WXPN need that support since they're not commercial. If you get a chance tune in to WXPN at 5pm to 6pm for "The Many Moods Of Ben Vaughn" followed by The Geator Jerry Blavat spinning the oldies from 6-7. Great stuff. I really enjoyed Michael's interview with Rocky too, I'd like to hear more.

Thanks again!  :)

Shout out to "Rocker" on the board...listen to the current show playing on WFMU. Some *great* 50's rockabilly being spun.

It was great to see you there and (hear) Junkstar too.  I have always been a radio guy since way back -- I recall hearing "Feel Flows" when it came out on the local "underground" station and having my mind blown.  Or like you fine tuning for that left of the dial gem signal when on the road.  Interesting that hip radio tends to love the Beach Boys.  But not surprising.

Interesting comment by M.  Shelley that Russ Titelman told him that, despite receiving co-author credit, Titelman had actually contributed very little to Guess I'm Dumb.  This is kind of similar to Billy Hinsche's recent comments that his contributions to Lady Love were minimal.   It really does raise questions about how much Mike Love was really entitled to all the credits he obtained in the '90s lawsuit. Everyone pretty much agrees that the original omission on California Girls was unjust, but the fact that several contemporary co-author who WERE credited say that it was pretty much all Brian, it does raise questions about some of Love's litigation-generated credits.

Tandyn Almer told me about his credit on "Sail on Sailor." Apparently he was given 1/12th credit in the end. He told me "I wrote every 12th note." He was entertaining.

so glad I listened in to learn that after brian finished recording the love you lp that he started on an lp called smile but didn’t finish it.  😳

Good question. See my note on Tandyn Almer. There was definitely a money grab in a lot of this. I wasn't there that much when Brian was writing because I would leave out of respect to let him work, and I certainly wasn't there in the earliest days. He actually said, "I want to keep you separate from all this." I was pretty innocent at that time, and I think he loved that. But life happens...to all of us.

Not suggesting anything beyond a possibility, but wasn't there talk that when the band was shopping around for a new label, after MIU ended their run with Reprise, that one of the goodies they were offering to potential labels like CBS was the possibility of revisiting or releasing some of the Smile material in some way? I don't remember where the phrase was first written, but I heard the band would put Smile on the negotiation table with labels like "dangling a carrot" in front of the labels to help close a deal especially at a time when the band itself was a shambles and they barely had any new material to offer of any hit-making quality. Was Rocky still around when such things were going on, as in around the time the band knew they would be looking for a new label?

It was a huge money grab and a very opportunistic one at that, especially factoring in some of the tactics Mike's lawyers used in the courtroom. Like sharks swimming under a pool of blood and legs kicking in the water above. Some of the tactics were disgusting, but not the place to get into that.

How it ties into Rocky (and Stan Love) are his claims of more information on this specific song credit case, and what was done. The original manuscript was going to expand on these claims, and the book co-authored with Ron has nothing of the sort. So the claims may someday come out, but not in Rocky's current book.

Regarding the crediting process as mentioned in Juggler's post, some of the relevant testimony was given by Nik Venet who explained the process of creating music and how ideas would be passed around. If I can find more of the transcript it can be posted, if not there is still an overview available. But basically the way Mike and his lawyers tried to claim certain percentages for contributions he supposedly made were questionable to say the least, ridiculous to be honest. Crediting Mike 25% for *3 words* during the fade-out to Wouldn't It Be Nice when Brian and Tony wrote the song is still one of the most negative aspects to be found in the whole BB's history and saga. It just isn't right, and saying "well, a judge decided it" doesn't justify it or make it right. There is also the issue of the several dozen other songs Mike and his lawyers originally tried to include in the case but which were either removed or thrown out. No one will answer *why* those several dozen other songs were not included in the final judgements, especially if Mike claimed a rightful credit on those as much he did the ones that were part of the judgement. It makes you wonder.

Unfortunately discussing details of the credit lawsuit has been turned into a third rail of discussing the band's history, and if someone pushes it too far, the accusations of bashing and hate start showing up. "Mike won, get over it" is a common sentiment. Yet so many questions can and should be asked.

Bruce has talked about the time of the la light lp. he said he wanted to put out a collage of smile fragments instead of full songs.  Also he didn’t want to record missing parts. He then said Brian knew nothing about this

That's hilarious! And, it sheds some light on the oft-pondered nature of Tandyn's involvement in this song (which was apparently very minimal). Thanks for sharing!

I love how Michael Shelley brings the interview to a SCREECHING halt when Ron Hamady starts waxing about Mike saving the band.

It would not surprise me one bit if dear old Ron, who had "weasel" scribbled all over his posts when he came on here, was recruited by Mike to effect a "turnaround" on Mr. Wheaties Man.

Rocky's memories are all over the map: he suggests that Dennis was "shattered" by "four years" of sexual hijinks and substance abuse beginning in 1968 at Will Rogers; he suggests that SMILE follows work on LOVE YOU; he jumbles up several more items. It's a joke. Dennis certainly went through a great trauma over the Manson episode, but his songwriting began in that time frame and continued on for more than a decade, including POB.

The only way Rocky will spill any beans on what possible Lovester shenanigans occurred during the credits trial is if he can be separated from Hamady, who is to Rocky what Landy became to Brian.

Question for c-man: do we have a handle on just how much actual involvement Tandyn Almer had with the various songs he's either credited on or has been rumored to be involved with during his interlude with Brian?

Thanks for the heads-up, guitarfool! Will chek out their archive.  :)

The only things I know are that Tandyn wrote the original set of lyrics for "Marcella", which apparently allude more directly to Brian visiting a "masseuse". These were re-written by Jack to make it less obvious what Brian was up to - but apparently some of Tandyn's lyrics remain - which is why on later re-issues of the song, his credit was restored. He also apparently wrote the lyrics to "Beatrice From Baltimore", but those were replaced in whole by Jack's lyrics, turning the song into "Mess Of Help To Stand Alone", hence the removal of Tandyn's credit there, with no later restoration of same. Tandyn's name DOES appear on the AFM contract for both sessions - I haven't heard those session tapes, though, so I can't say if he contributed musically to the tracks, or was present in some other capacity (perhaps he played bass, since I believe he studied that instrument formally?). The official by-line for "Sail On Sailor" credits him with co-writing the music - as Debbie says above, by his own admission, every twelfth note. :)

I'm still cracking up that my big 7" single record release debut event (although Rodney Bingenheimer played it three times last week) featured this Rocky interview in the same program. Bizarre meeting of my two worlds.

It was great bumping into you guys in the WFMU chat room. Such a small world...

Coincidence?  I think not....

I actually do remember the first lines of "Beatrice from Baltimore" - "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin,...little Beatrice from Bsltimore." Most of us know how Brian liked women and stockings, so I'm guessing he inspired this.

missing lines where I put the ... - "She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble."

Oh right, Marcella worked at the Tiger's Den. I never met her. Brian actually had me take him to another massage parlor called "Caesar's" something or other(?). They were really nice to me as I waited in the lobby - lot's of magazines to brouse. Life can be very strange.

Would the line "Beatrice from Baltimore" be sung where the words "mess of help to stand alone" are in the final version?

Especially with one B. Wilson circa 1971?  :)

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised. Even in the interview, which was mostly Rocky, the only person who mentioned Mike Love in any significant way was Ron. And as you said, that came at the very end when it felt like Ron had to get that talking point in there so it was on the record. Rocky himself didn't mention it at all during the broadcast. I'd still like to know how that specific angle which seems to be present in so much which Ron has said about this book has anything to do with Rocky telling his story.

It felt like Rocky's so-called "admiration" for Mike Love wasn't what Rocky was discussing, and Ron at the end had to remind listeners that he helped remind Rocky of that admiration and praise for Mike.

And yet, as anyone can read in the links to Rocky's posts which I posted above, Rocky's opinions of Mike's actions and behavior seem to have done a complete 180 degree shift from when he was shopping and previewing the first manuscript to the time Ron took over with the book which got published.

You pointed it out in the interview, Don, and as I said nothing would surprise me at this point. After reading what Ron posted here and what was broadcast Saturday in the interview, it's all out there for people to decide their opinions on how and why Ron is pushing a Mike-As-Savior angle into the story when Rocky's original narrative as late as a few years ago was the complete opposite.

Is this where the interview is? I'm 30 minutes in and it has just been music I don't like. I can't skip forward either.

No, that is the current live stream of the station. Go to this link, scroll down to the archive for June 13, and click on pop-up player and you'll be able to fast-forward and rewind. Start around 1:03 into the broadcast I think...EDIT 1:04.50

https://wfmu.org/playlists/SH (https://wfmu.org/playlists/SH)

I found it on another link. I couldn't take any more of that music with no mention of the interview! Don't even think it was the right episode!

Here's a rough but accurate transcription of the part in question (I didn't transcribe all of the "um"s and repeated words):

[Ron Hamady] "There were people that took exception to the credit that we gave Mike Love in the book. There's a Mike Love camp and a Brian Wilson camp, and sometimes those two camps are at odds with each other and when I listen to Rocky talk about all of his experiences when the book was being edited, I said "That should be in the book, Rocky. That should be in the book, Rocky. That should be in the book." - he just told me story after story after story..."

[Rocky interjects] "And Ron put them all in the book."

[Ron continues] "Well, I put a bunch of them in the book and it really fleshed things out considerably. But the one thing that Rocky did not realize was his tremendous respect for Mike Love. When Rocky would talk about how that band survived...Mike Love was the glue that held that band together."

[source: https://wfmu.org/archiveplayer/?show=93892&archive=187375&starttime= (https://wfmu.org/archiveplayer/?show=93892&archive=187375&starttime=)]

So Rocky has "tremendous respect" for Mike Love? Let's hear it from Rocky himself (read the parts in yellow to get the meat of the quote):









[For those curious about where all of Rocky's words can be found: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts;start=0 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts;start=0)]

Mike's god is money. People lied in court for Mike. Smoking gun tapes. Mike is condescending towards Brian. Mike is a schemer. Mike threw a pool deck chair at Brian.

And all of a sudden Rocky had an epiphany that Mike is deserving of tremendous respect? Something just doesn't add up here.

I just listened to the interview. I own the book and already read it. I am probably a bit more open to his side of the story than most. I didn't read anything in the book that contradicts things I have heard from other books and documentaries of that period.  It doesn't mean that he was a good choice to work with Brian. I would have said the same of Eugene Landy wrote a book. Is it possible that they are lying? Sure. But I want to at least get a different perspective.

Obviously he doesn't have all his facts straight. Such as Brian being in bed for 10 years. But he wasn't around until 1976. Maybe he was going back to Brian's break down 10 years earlier. He mentioned that Brian worked on Smile. I have read elsewhere that there was talks of putting Do You Like Worms on the LA Light Album. Is it possible that Brian worked on some Smile tracks at that time? How Rocky speaks of Dennis and Carl offends people, but Carl was in the worst shape of his life at the time. Dennis was also going down hill and could be a confrontational person. I also read negative things about Mike, so I don't think this was pro Mike. If anything, it was pro Brian. Rocky seemed to hate the rock n roll attitude of all the Beach Boys minus Brian. I don't agree with him punching Carl and beating up Dennis.

I recall asking a couple years ago why Eugene Landy is acceptable to talk about, make books and movies about, but some people don't even want to discuss Rocky! I never got an answer. No one has asked Brian about Rocky, but he gets asked about Landy often. I would like more clarity on why Rocky is a more sensitive issue than Landy.

<<He mentioned that Brian worked on Smile. I have read elsewhere that there was talks of putting Do You Like Worms on the LA Light Album.>>
1. In the final issue of David Leaf's Pet Sounds newsletter, there's an interview with Bruce about the forthcoming first CBS Beach Boys album.  Bruce mentions that James Guercio wanted to begin the album with Do You Like Worms and end it with Can't Wait Too Long.
2. A couple of years later, just before the release of Ten Years of Harmony, Bruce discusses his idea of putting together a Smile collage.

I guess it's about the "mu-u-ny" and not being sued, as always. I didn't know Rocky well. I just remember him sitting for hours when he was "working for" Brian in his living room lifting dumb-bells in front of a mirror he had propped up on the floor. He seemed thrilled with himself. Both Brian and I just had an incredulous look at this show. Oh, and by the way. I'll be selling my book for $1000 each any day now (yes, I'm being sarcastic). I'm thinking that it was the LA Times that once considered the $$$ that hangers on of celebrities made each year. It was pretty impressive. I guess it's a business.

Landry is the more “talked about” figure in Brian’s history because he was more important (in a negative way of course) than Rocky.  Rocky was more of a bystander. 

If Landy is more negative, then why is Rocky a more sensitive issue? Why can't people ask Brian about his memory with Stan and Rocky?

If it was about the money, then why did he release the book when he did? Why not 2012? And why is it so evil to write to make money? Someone else released the book 50 Songs to cash in on the 50th anniversary. I would think that was more to cash in than this.

I certainly don’t think Rocky is a more “sensitive” issue. He’s just a less “relevant” issue.

Anyone who followed Rocky’s posts on this site a couple of years ago, then also read the thread Ron had about the book more recently, has to wonder about the 180 degree change in the story.  My own opinion is that there was fear of legal action from Mike if the story didn’t paint him in glowing terms.  Which makes the book worthless.   

People keep saying that. I never got the sense from reading the book that it paints Mike in glowing terms. I think the years that Rocky worked with Brian all 3 Wilsons were struggling.  Mike and Al were keeping the band alive at that time. If he worked with Brian from 72-74 and said that Mike was keeping the band alive, I would have an issue with that statement. Now I do think Rocky takes too much credit for saving Brian's life. Given that Brian was in worse shape in the early 80s. But I don't know what Brian's condition was when Rocky and Stan got fired.

From what I gather, people were expecting a lot of dirt on Mike - enough for people to "boo" him off stage (in Rocky's own words). It went from some 35 chapters to 28 apparently (from what we were told of it, and read of it in the excerpts that were posted). Not that editing doesn't take place for books like this, but people were promised one thing and got another. TBH I haven't read the book, and I'm curious if there is mention of this "SMOKING GUN TAPE" that supposedly proves Mike brought in fake witnesses to the trial.

Why did he not release the book in 2012? Probably lack of foresight. He probably saw all the money the 50th was raking in from people who actually prepared for it, and wanted to jump on the wagon. It probably took a while to write the thing, a long while to find a publisher willing to release it...thus it got released when it did. Plenty of Beach Boys books have come out post-2012.

Why don't people ask Brian about Rocky and Stan? I mean, how many people care about Rocky and Stan? Comparing those two's "notoriety" to Landy's is greatly unfair. More random and less-hardcore fans know that Brian was controlled by a psychiatrist...but ask them about Rocky Pamplin and they'd give you a blank stare. Why waste interview questions on characters that very few of the public know anything about? Not saying that people shouldn't ask Brian about Rocky, but I don't think it's unusual that he isn't asked.

I would love to know the end-game of Rocky when it came to hyping up this "SMOKING GUN TAPE" and other topics - it is clear to anyone that such topics would be a no-go for any publisher. Makes me wonder if Rocky was doing it to get Mike's attention...

PS, Debbie, thanks for your response! I love reading those snippets of you and Brian during that time.

I think many are hopeful that somewhere in the next few copyright releases, someone will turn up a demo of "Mess of Help" with the original lyrics. My recollection is that they won't be found in the session; even if the original lyrics were used in December, they were (according to those who would know...) wiped off in favor of Jack's lyrics when in the home stretch.

Debbie, do you have any other sense of just who it was who "inspired" our wandering boys? Some bopper at a club on the strip? And at the risk of extreme political incorrectness, can anyone describe how to do "the Chicano rumble"? (probably involves a lot of ducking, which I am doing right now)

And speaking of "(according to) those who would know", AGD is already in denial mode about Ron Hamady's performance on the Michael Shelley interview over at you-know-where, tut-tut-tutting about prerecording and attempting to explain away the abruptness of the truncated interview when anyone listening with any sense of tone or pace will clearly note how Shelley sounds extremely uncomfortable at what he's hearing from Hamady. In response to AGD's featherbedding, we'll just trot out the word that our ever-charmingly arrogant Briton would use if he could only join us here--bollocks!  :3d  :smokin

Rab, the type of response that I think most of us would like to see from Brian concerning Stan and Rocky would something analogous to the great story about his "correction" on the autographed album he signed for Don Henley. But instead of him changing "great" to "good," it would be something like if he were handed an LP signed by Stan and Rocky, and if he simply crossed out their names and returned it to the person who'd given it to him without saying a word...

In the same pet sounds magazine from 11/78 bruce first mentions the idea of a collage of smile material in addition to the above two songs guercio wanted on la light. He said he wanted brian to put the collage together. Bruce said he dropped the idea of a collage for la light because brian didn’t want it on the lp.

Yeah, I really REALLY doubt Brian did any work on the SMiLE tapes in '77-'78. It IS true that Dennis and the Brother Studios engineers pulled all the tapes out of the vaults, and did some cataloging and rough mixes. The tapes were reportedly played over the sound system of the Boys' jet plane on one of their tours of the Midwest within the next year or so. So Brian would have likely heard the tapes, but I think this was after Rocky was gone. And there was obviously interest from Guercio and CBS - but not from Brian. :)

Of course, Brian DID produce another unreleased album for the BBs shortly after Love You's completion - that being Adult Child. Perhaps THAT'S what Rocky's thinking of?

Playing devil's advocate here - and I'll admit to not yet having heard the interview myself, mostly out of indifference - but AGD states that he was told by the interviewer himself that the show was pre-recorded and edited, with one final question & answer being cut. For what it's worth.

Rocky and Stan were with Brian for 3 years! This during the darkest period in the Beach Boys career! They almost broke up in 78, all 3 Wilsons were addicted to drugs, etc. Honestly, I think this is a fascinating period to learn about! I think the only reason Landy got more attention is because the Beach Boys were getting more attention in 1976 after greatest hits went platinum, Rock n Roll Music was a hit and Brian was back on the road. In 1990 after recently having a number 1 hit and the Beach Boys getting in the Rock n Roll hall of fame.  1977-1980, the Beach Boys were under the radar.

In terms of the baggage he had on Mike, can we really blame that on Rocky? Surely, Stan and Steve got to proof read the book and word got out to Mike. If a law suit was threatened,  he had no choice. This is true of any biography or documentary about people that are living. Unfortunately, they may either not want certain facts out there, or they don't think it's accurate. Who knows.

Rocky may have talked about the 90s law suit of Mike on here, but the book all took place from 76 to 80. So they may have refocused the book. I also heard that originally, this was Steve's story. I believe he was close to the situation of the 90s lawsuit which makes more sense.

Regarding Rocky and Stan, I’m not denying that asking Brian about them wouldn’t be interesting. I’m just saying that you had a psychiatrist who literally controlled Brian’s life, co-created music with him, had the surf nazis spy on him, and attempted to take everything he had (and basically attempted to kill Brian). Comparatively Rocky and Stan’s story isn’t nearly as epic...which is why they aren’t as prominent in the story of Brian’s life (whether or not they should be).

As for the Mike stuff, I can agree with what you wrote. But part of me thinks there’s more to it, but I’ll leave it at that.

I know it's not as epic, but someone got on me a few years ago for suggesting that we ask Brian about Rocky because it's too sensitive of an issue. But since the book came out, many people are claiming that it is full of lies. That is why I am interested in knowing what Brian, Marylin, Stan, Steve, or anyone else who was close to the situation has to say. I am willing to over look historical inaccuracies with false memories. They all do this. It does it mean they are lying.

I think that certain facts being left concerning a living person is always an issue with a biography. Some people are just a bit more protective of their reputation than others. Not sure we can blame Rocky for that. It sounds like Ron was more concerned with the p.r. side of it. Not to blame him either. It may just be the smart thing to do.

Those were the lyrics that I remember fairly clearly. I would bet that Brian wouldn't say a thing about Stan and Rocky. It's not what he does.

Apparently I'm still being shamed by other people on this board for noting that people made money off of Brian. Why is that such an issue for them? I'd enjoy an explanation.

Landy was a public figure, of course the interest and attention on him would go beyond two guys hired for a few years to bodyguard Brian and try to keep him clean of dope. That's not saying their stories are not of interest, because they are to help fill in even a small part of the band's history for interested fans. But Landy's fame and infamy goes way beyond that of Rocky, or Jack Reilly, or anyone else who served a behind the scenes role in the 70's.

I think the issue is getting away from what Rocky actually said versus what's in the book.

Anyone else notice during the interview that Rocky barely mentioned Mike Love? A lot of it was instead his admiration for Brian and how nice of a guy Brian was. That lined up more with Rocky's previous comments and book excerpts than what Ron seems to have injected into the narrative. Notice Ron was the one who squeezed in a talking point about Mike-as-savior and how he helped "remind" Rocky how much Rocky admired Mike.

As can be seen plain as day for anyone reading here, it wasn't what Rocky thought a few years ago, nor was it what he wrote in his original 36 chapter manuscript before Ron signed on as a co-author.

That is the frustration for a lot of people who have been posting about this.

I'd also ask if the question is why hasn't Brian been asked about Rocky and Stan, why hasn't Mike been asked about Steve and Stan, his own brothers? The Love brothers had been estranged for years to the point where one brother was posting comments across the web against his brother, and also actively promoting Rocky as he was shopping his original book! I'd think there would be as much interest in what tore the Love brothers apart as there would be for Rocky, but you'd be hard-pressed to find such a question asked of Mike in at least the past 15-20 years.

And I'd still like to know what Rocky being reminded of an admiration for Mike Love has to do with the narrative of Rocky telling his story in light of the accounts Rocky told previously. It feels like a square-peg/round-hole scenario maybe coming for reasons of appeasement versus actually adding something essential to the story.

Ron Hamady strangely has the same talking points pushed on this board a few years back....

If Rocky ever wrote a rough draft of his book back when he was in the original state of mind that he was in (at the time of his original posts), I suppose that draft might be as much of a holy grail to some as some lost SMiLE tapes or the Inside Pop reels :lol

I just don't know how anyone can take a word Rocky says seriously after changing his tone like that, or how his co-author can promote the book with a straight face, being that those many original posts are a thing that exists.  Those posts didn't not happen. Yet Rocky and Ron just have to keep pretending that those posts don't exist, continuing a charade, to what end I'm not sure of.

It's interesting to think of what the reception to the book would have been, had Rocky not done those original posts. I suppose it would just be dismissed as relatively boring and devoid of as much insider info as it might have been assumed he might have otherwise had to share - but now we *know* that Rocky had more to say... much more it would seem... and was muted for reasons we can only speculate. 

Interesting points here. So could it be a similar situation to Brian's book 'Wouldn't it Be Nice' in which Landy inserted a lot of his own ideas into the book? I don't know much about Ron, but it's possible he changed Rocky's story to fit his own. Don't know if Rocky is aware, has read the book, or even cares.

As for Mike, he does bring up his brothers whenever he is asked about fighting Dennis Wilson and hitting Carl. He is quick to point out that it was Stan and Rocky. I am inclined to believe Mike, because in Endless Wave, Mike takes the side of Dennis and Carl. He even wanted Steve fired at the time. But some historians like to paint the picture that Mike was in cahoots with his brothers and Rocky.

As Rocky, or as today? I mean was Ron already pushing the story in a softer direction?

Ouch. My band got played twice during that show.

 
Well, I think there was a couple of songs I liked in there. I don't know which ones, but there is a possibility that they were yours!  :lol

Another thing to consider in this whole thread concerning Rocky’s book.  If you’ll remember back to his original thread, prior to getting linked up with Ron, Rocky was EXTREMELY resistant to any suggestions any of us made in the way of “constructive criticism” concerning his writing.   I recall that he got very defensive and basically refused to acknowledge that his manuscript was anything short of perfect. Yet Ron got involved and the entire story got revamped, doing what others have called a complete 180 degree flip. Puzzling.

Was the criticism based on the facts or grammar?

As I recall, there was a lot of back-and-forth exchange between Rocky and several posters on this site, myself included, prior to Rocky posting text from his as-yet-unpublished book.  Much of the exchange had evolved into some fairly nasty posts from both sides. Once Rocky did post part of a chapter, I (and others) offered some suggestions that, we felt, would improve the book.  Such as writing in the first person - Rocky had things in there like “Stan and Rocky had to be careful about...”, and we suggested changing that to “Stan and I had to be careful about...”. Also, since Rocky had a lot of direct quotes about events that happened 40 years prior, it was suggested that he take out all the direct quotes and just say “this is how I remember it”. 

Rocky’s response was to say “go write your own book”.

This is the kind of thing that fans hate me for, but here I go. I received a very early draft by mail of the book that I simply wasn't emotionally able to read it after several attempts, I finally got rid of it. So, I honestly don't know what he was saying at that point.  I'm definitely not a curator or collector. I was more interested in my husband's health at that point. My personal experience many years ago was that Stan and Rocky were very strong and athletic and could get Brian to do whatever he did by physically overpowering him. I wasn't sad when they moved on, but clearly Landy wasn't a great answer. Jesus...

Nothing in there to hate you for, Debbie.

I don't hate you. I guess I got the impression that Rocky and Stan was too sensitive an issue for many. I hope I never came off as pushing you for information. I am just a curious fan.